Dr Shashi Tharoor MP - Britain Does Owe Reparations - excellent video

[SAadmin]

Dr Shashi Tharoor MP - Britain Does Owe Reparations - excellent video on british colonialism in India ...please discuss !!

Edited July 24, 2015 by N30 S!NGH

[Guest]

On one hand i despise british colonialism in india bought so much conflicts, divide and rule but on the other hand i actually favor them because they were able to made infrastructure, road, bank system bought indian to western civilization, its worth noting as soon they went from india- religious wars started, religious group nationalism started. 

Off course british system of exploitation colonialism isn't perfect is also corrupt but out of two corrupt system, one is based on pure capitalism and other one based on religious wars, nationalist agenda...i would pick up british system of colonialism as common man is not affected by it.

Again i may be wrong or totally out of depth in this one, i totally agree with video above but don't think britian owe reparations to them, and on the other hand its not like current india is anyway better, lets say there was no british colonialism, india would have been invaded anyway either by mughals or divided fighting in between monarchies.

[dalsingh101]

On one hand i despise british colonialism in india bought so much conflicts, divide and rule but on the other hand i actually favor them because they were able to made infrastructure, road, bank system bought indian to western civilization, its worth noting as soon they went from india- religious wars started, religious group nationalism started. 

Off course british system of exploitation colonialism isn't perfect is also corrupt but out of two corrupt system, one is based on pure capitalism and other one based on religious wars, nationalist agenda...i would pick up british system of colonialism as common man is not affected by it.

Again i may be wrong or totally out of depth in this one, i totally agree with video above but don't think britian owe reparations to them, and on the other hand its not like current india is anyway better, lets say there was no british colonialism, india would have been invaded anyway either by mughals or divided fighting in between monarchies.

Well, I'd ask you how knowledgeable you are on the contours of pre-annexation Panjab? Have you bought into the idea that it was backwards until goray turned up? Because more and more evidence is turning up to suggest otherwise.

one is based on pure capitalism and other one based on religious wars, nationalist agenda...

Well, colonialism WAS based on Anglo nationalism, and (at least in its early stages) WAS hinged on the perceived religious superiority of Protestant Christianity. 

 

its worth noting as soon they went from india- religious wars started, religious group nationalism started. 

I think you are way wrong here, it's pretty much obvious that a lot of the religio-geopolitical conflicts that took place on the Brits leaving were the products of the worldviews they brought with them (which many of our own 'leaders' adopted). Take the whole debacle of the Panjabi language and how this issue has caused fissures along religious identity lines to this day - this never happened before. 

That isn't to say that there weren't religious tensions/conflicts before; but to ignore the way western ideas and categorisations (religious AND caste) reinforced differences rather than concentrating on commonality is ignoring things under our noses that negatively effect Sikhs to this very day. 

 

Will watch vid later.

 

[dalsingh101]

Just saw the video; it was spot on in my eyes.

 

It's interesting how I'm increasingly feeling a bit uneasy when the topic of colonialism pops up these days because of the realisation that our own people (especially the rural pendu farmers) played such a big role in propping it up.

 

I think that legacy of an inferiority complex towards whites and deeply rooted, even murderous antipathy between Panjabis of different faiths is are just some of the profound ways in which the experience has shaped our society for the worse. Most of us here will be aware of the vast sums and treasures transferred from Panjab to the UK after the annexation. These goray sent us back to some rural dark age, and we are still struggling to get out of it to this day. 

 

A little third party insight into the type of shit our people were supporting....

[Guest]

On one hand i despise british colonialism in india bought so much conflicts, divide and rule but on the other hand i actually favor them because they were able to made infrastructure, road, bank system bought indian to western civilization, its worth noting as soon they went from india- religious wars started, religious group nationalism started. 

Off course british system of exploitation colonialism isn't perfect is also corrupt but out of two corrupt system, one is based on pure capitalism and other one based on religious wars, nationalist agenda...i would pick up british system of colonialism as common man is not affected by it.

Again i may be wrong or totally out of depth in this one, i totally agree with video above but don't think britian owe reparations to them, and on the other hand its not like current india is anyway better, lets say there was no british colonialism, india would have been invaded anyway either by mughals or divided fighting in between monarchies.

Even if Britain was to offer any kind of reparations to India in any shape, form or amount the poor will never receive any portion of it.  The greedy laalla Jees will line their pockets and feed their bellies first while the most deserving suffering poor ones will just look on.

 

[dalsingh101]

Even if Britain was to offer any kind of reparations to India in any shape, form or amount the poor will never receive any portion of it.  The greedy laalla Jees will line their pockets and feed their bellies first while the most deserving suffering poor ones will just look on.

 

You talking about Laala jees stealing money, what about our own equivalents like Badals who do the same...with religious donations no less.

Anyway if you watch the video the guy makes the point that the sum is not of importance, it's more symbolic of Brits owning up to the negativity of colonialism - I think this is of monumental importance given how imperialism and cultural and racial  supremacism plays such a key role in the Brit identity many whites here have. They'd have us believe that we should be happy being subordinate to them, taking on the 'white man's burden' given half a chance.

 

And I don't care about how many Panjabi farmers benefited from being their henchmen -  before some son of a pendu plays that card - that don't make it right.

This owning up to, and acknowledging the evil of empire is even more important in a modern context where Brits have recently tried to resurrect their 'glory days' with messed up attempts at foreign occupation (Iraq anyone!) which has blown up in their face and has caused innumerable deaths and mad instability in the regions they have interfered with trying to make a grab for oil. 

 

 

[SAadmin]

Here is another one:

 

http://www.dontparty.co.za/comedy-2/trevor-noah-slates-british-colonialism-uk-show/

[Guest]

You talking about Laala jees stealing money, what about our own equivalents like Badals who do the same...with religious donations no less.

Anyway if you watch the video the guy makes the point that the sum is not of importance, it's more symbolic of Brits owning up to the negativity of colonialism - I think this is of monumental importance given how imperialism and cultural and racial  supremacism plays such a key role in the Brit identity many whites here have. They'd have us believe that we should be happy being subordinate to them, taking on the 'white man's burden' given half a chance.

 

And I don't care about how many Panjabi farmers benefited from being their henchmen -  before some son of a pendu plays that card - that don't make it right.

This owning up to, and acknowledging the evil of empire is even more important in a modern context where Brits have recently tried to resurrect their 'glory days' with messed up attempts at foreign occupation (Iraq anyone!) which has blown up in their face and has caused innumerable deaths and mad instability in the regions they have interfered with trying to make a grab for oil. 

 

 

Britain will never 'own up' to anything wrong ever.  In India innumerable people don't even have the ability to comprehend the damage British colonization of India or the Mughal one for that matter has caused.  It is beyond their mental capacity to do so.  What good is it going to do?  Badal is evil and there is no doubt about it, but he is not a laalla ji, is he?  In my view the pendu boys need to learn the definition of  'colonization' before they choose a card to play with. Why didn't  rest of the world make any hissing noises to stop the evil war in Iraq when its planning was being showcased in the world media?  The rest of the world was quite happy to side up with the super powers, why?  It is about time the world hissed for all the evil that is going on everywhere on the planet earth as I type.

[Guest]

Britain will never 'own up' to anything wrong ever.  In India innumerable people don't even have the ability to comprehend the damage British colonization of India or the Mughal one for that matter has caused.  It is beyond their mental capacity to do so.  What good is it going to do?  Badal is evil and there is no doubt about it, but he is not a laalla ji, is he?  In my view the pendu boys need to learn the definition of  'colonization' before they choose a card to play with. Why didn't  rest of the world make any hissing sounds to stop the evil war in Iraq when its planning was being showcased in the world media?  The rest of the world was quite happy to side up with the super powers, why?  It is about time the world hissed for all the evil that is going on everywhere on the planet earth as I type.  I blame the world for remaining reticent.

[kdsingh80]

On one hand i despise british colonialism in india bought so much conflicts, divide and rule but on the other hand i actually favor them because they were able to made infrastructure, road, bank system bought indian to western civilization, its worth noting as soon they went from india- religious wars started, religious group nationalism started. 

Off course british system of exploitation colonialism isn't perfect is also corrupt but out of two corrupt system, one is based on pure capitalism and other one based on religious wars, nationalist agenda...i would pick up british system of colonialism as common man is not affected by it.

Again i may be wrong or totally out of depth in this one, i totally agree with video above but don't think britian owe reparations to them, and on the other hand its not like current india is anyway better, lets say there was no british colonialism, india would have been invaded anyway either by mughals or divided fighting in between monarchies.

Religious wars were even their before Britishers arrive. The truth is Hindu Muslims  can never live in peace. One will always dominate the other .Even other religions cannot live in peace if one religion will start gaining converts from other religions then friction between communnitties is inevitable

[SAadmin]

Even if Britain was to offer any kind of reparations to India in any shape, form or amount the poor will never receive any portion of it.  The greedy laalla Jees will line their pockets and feed their bellies first while the most deserving suffering poor ones will just look on.

 

I agree, i don't think britian need to offer any kind of reparations except for may be apology to India. However, there is no real reason to pay India money as Indian officials are more concerned about pocketing money in their own pockets and build space programs/make more nuclear weapons rather than getting rid of deep rooted poverty within India.

[kdsingh80]

I agree, i don't think britian need to offer any kind of reparations except for may be apology to India. However, there is no real reason to pay India money as Indian officials are more concerned about pocketing money in their own pockets and build space programs/make more nuclear weapons rather than getting rid of deep rooted poverty within India.

1) Corruption is worldwide problem and not only confined to India. 

 

2) Why do you think that there are no poverty elimination programs in India?Indian standard of living have improved considerably in last 25 years especially after Manmohan singh's reforms in 1991.there is lot of positive develpments which happened and are still happening in India

[JungChamkaur]

To NeoSingh.... the common man was affected and that too drastically. What do you think Zaildars were? Numberdars? Jagirdars? Local moneylenders.. 

British induced famines killed 25-30 million people. 4million direct consequence of Churchill's policies during wartime. Read Churchills Secret War by Madhusree Mukherjee and also Elementary Aspects of Peasant Insurgency in Colonial India by Ranajit Guha. 

I cant believe you made such a statement after watching this video. No wonder the Sikh community is stuck in the dark ages. 

Sikhs need to look beyond their little 'khoo'. Sikhs are khoo day dadu. Please read more and stop believing dhadhi jathas and kavishars who still think that more sikhs died for india than any other community - what a pathetic and insidious joke. 

[JungChamkaur]

Also, do you know how slums came into being? With land reforms, labourers were pushed into the cities where industrialization was protracted. Rapid urbanization and stagnant capitalist growth (capital being shifted from the hands of landlords [rajputs in most of india, sikhs in punjab, marathas etc] to the hands of the 'bahman-bania' that the Anandpur sahib resolution so fondly speaks of) is what created and nurtures slums in India today. 

Also, dont forget that Indira Gandhi and Nehru's land reforms were blessings for Sikhs in Punjab. Partition also played a major role in uplifting the economic circumstances of sikhs as they were granted lands previously owned by Muslim Rajpoots and Jatts. Most of Doaba was under the propriety of Rajputs (Muslim and Hindu) and this land was divided amongst the sikh peasantry who now claim to be "sardars" as if they were military commanders under the Lahore Darbar or other Sikh kingdoms. 

[SAadmin]

Here is the video of trevor noah reminding a British Audience of their country's colonial past:

 

[Xylitol]

Punjab spent more on education per capita than British did in England. One of the most advanced education systems in the world. 

The British exported huge amounts of crops to Europe during times of famine. They have actually caused some of the largest famines and mass deaths in world history with their greed. With full knowledge. 

[tonyhp32]

It is ironic that the Hindu elite of which Tharoor is a member which benefited the most from British rule are making the demand for reparations. If he really thinks that the artificial country that the British gifted to his clique was better before the British then he should not have any qualms about passing the country to those who held it before the British. He can give central India to the Marathas, West Bengal and Bihar to the Muslims, Rajasthan to the Rajputs and Punjab to the Sikhs. 

Also, dont forget that Indira Gandhi and Nehru's land reforms were blessings for Sikhs in Punjab. Partition also played a major role in uplifting the economic circumstances of sikhs as they were granted lands previously owned by Muslim Rajpoots and Jatts. Most of Doaba was under the propriety of Rajputs (Muslim and Hindu) and this land was divided amongst the sikh peasantry who now claim to be "sardars" as if they were military commanders under the Lahore Darbar or other Sikh kingdoms. 

 

 You do talk out of your backside. The Sikhs were the largest landowners in Central Punjab. They held 56% of all the land in Lahore district and not only did they lose more land than they got in compensation, but that land they received was of poorer quality.  Not surprising as the Rajputs were well known as poor cultivators. The reason that Sikhs are referred to as Sardars is because at the stage that Sikhs were taking over the Punjab, they were very few in number and the only Sikhs that the common people came into contact with were the Sardars who were taking over entire villages and groups of villages. The Sikhs today are the inheritors of that legacy and hence have every right to claim to be Sardars. 

[kdsingh80]

 

The reason that Sikhs are referred to as Sardars is because at the stage that Sikhs were taking over the Punjab, they were very few in number and the only Sikhs that the common people came into contact with were the Sardars who were taking over entire villages and groups of villages. The Sikhs today are the inheritors of that legacy and hence have every right to claim to be Sardars. 

 

I read different version . Sikhs were referred as sardar because they served in large numbers in British Indian army and many of them were usually  bosses of soldiers. So common soldiers referred them as sardar which  even continued in civilian life

Edited August 2, 2015 by kdsingh80

[dalsingh101]

Here is the video of trevor noah reminding a British Audience of their country's colonial past:

 

Nice one man! lol