chatanga1 Posted August 19, 2015 Report Share Posted August 19, 2015 Quoting Sikhkhoj:"As early as 1979, one eminent Sikh scholar, Prof.Trilochan Singh (1919-1993) who was involved in UNESCO publication ‘Sacred writings of the Sikhs’, saw through the lies of Baba Kartar Singh Samparda Chowk Mehta:‘To carry the distortion further, the Bhindrawaley Taksal now claims to be the spiritual descendants of ‘Damdami Taksal’ (Spiritual lineage of interpreters of Adi Guru Granth) of Baba Dip Singh, although all the followers of Baba Dip Singh and Baba Gurbaksh Singh died to the last man for the sanctity of the Golden Temple. They left no successor. Sant Sundar Singh founder of Bhindrawaley Taksal was student of Sant Gulab Singh, a Nirmala Saint and actually belonged to the Amritsali Taksal. I had the opportunity to meet Sant Inder Singh, brother of Sant Sundar Singh many times and got first-hand material about the Saints life from Sant Gurbachan Singh. Sant Inder Singh died at the age of 104.’‘The Turban And Sword Of Sikhs, Prof.Trilochan Singh, Pa.390" Sikhkhoj posted this a while back and I wanted to respond to it, but the topic got closed before I could. There are a couple of things I want to say about this particular paragraph and people's reliance on supporting texts. Niddar Singh first used this on his website to claim the above thoughts of Prof Trilochan Singh are true and that the Damdami Taksal died out. It is my own contention that there is no proof that the Taksal died out, nor is there any proof that the students under Baba Deep Singh Ji ALL went to fight. If you look at it, Guru Sahib made a huge investment of his time and effort to dictate Guru Granth Sahib to Bhai Mani Singh and teach the Sikh students there of the viakhya of Gurbani. Would it be feasible that Baba Ji would have allowed all the students to have fight and possibly died, or that Baba Ji would still have retained some students there to carry on the Santhiya duties to ensure that the mission of Guru Sahib carried on?Reading Bhangus' Panth Parkash, it says that at one time, the Sikhs decided to cut their losses and remain inactive for a while to regroup and restrengthen their ranks, lest they should all be killed and the Guru Khalsa cease to flourish. Of course there is no absolute proof for either theory but put yourself in this situation. What would be the more feasible result?The 2nd point that i wanted to make, is that you can find scholars to back your points of view up. Sikhkhoj did, in trying to use Prof Trilochan Singh words on the origins of Taksal, but why then deny Profs writings on Sri Dasam Granth from the SAME book? Professor says that all of Sri Dasam Granth is the work of Guru Sahib. Now, that is not to say that every writer will be 100% true or accurate, but it's very easy to pick and choose quotes that suit. Then if you have an issue with some samprdaye, you can be quick to "like" posts that denigrate those samprdayes even though you have litte no understanding of the words that have been written in the post you jump to "like".Now that the forum has calmed down a little, I hope that people be able to debate Sri Dasam Granth without it turning into a slanging match again, and becoming fanboys of others. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paapiman Posted August 19, 2015 Report Share Posted August 19, 2015 (edited) Quoting Sikhkhoj:"As early as 1979, one eminent Sikh scholar, Prof.Trilochan Singh (1919-1993) who was involved in UNESCO publication ‘Sacred writings of the Sikhs’, saw through the lies of Baba Kartar Singh Samparda Chowk Mehta:‘To carry the distortion further, the Bhindrawaley Taksal now claims to be the spiritual descendants of ‘Damdami Taksal’ (Spiritual lineage of interpreters of Adi Guru Granth) of Baba Dip Singh, although all the followers of Baba Dip Singh and Baba Gurbaksh Singh died to the last man for the sanctity of the Golden Temple. They left no successor. Sant Sundar Singh founder of Bhindrawaley Taksal was student of Sant Gulab Singh, a Nirmala Saint and actually belonged to the Amritsali Taksal. I had the opportunity to meet Sant Inder Singh, brother of Sant Sundar Singh many times and got first-hand material about the Saints life from Sant Gurbachan Singh. Sant Inder Singh died at the age of 104.’‘The Turban And Sword Of Sikhs, Prof.Trilochan Singh, Pa.390" Bro, even if the above is true, Srimaan Amar Shaheed Baba Mani Singh jee Maharaaj was also the head of DDT. When Baba jee was martyred, Daas does not think, any other Singhs of his jatha were martryed along with him. DDT could have continued their lineage through him. The Amritsari Taksaal still exists today.Bhul chuk maaf Edited August 21, 2015 by paapiman 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xylitol Posted August 20, 2015 Report Share Posted August 20, 2015 It is not uncommon for a student to study from multiple teachers at different times.Sant Sundar Singh ji did study from Sant Bishen Singh, but eventually moved elsewhere to set up his own taksal. This in no way makes their claims about lineage incorrect. For example, Sant Jagjit Singh ji Harkhowal is regarded as student of Sant Jawala Singh ji, but he also spent a lot of time studying from Tanday Wale mahapurkh. Additionally, DDT’s claims of lineage are written in granths released during the lifetime of Sant Gurbachan Singh ji. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chatanga1 Posted August 20, 2015 Author Report Share Posted August 20, 2015 Bro, even if the above is true, Srimaan Amar Shaheed Baba Mani Singh jee Maharaaj was also the head of DDT. Bhai Mani Singh Ji set up his Taksal in Amritsar known today as Amritsar Taksal, but thats not the point I'm making. i was looking at the logic behind Professors assertion, and how other people with vested interests quote him as if it must be true, whilst ignoring his thoughts on other issues that they don't agree with. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaikaara Posted August 21, 2015 Report Share Posted August 21, 2015 I think i have read something similiar on Nidar singh ji's website that the Taksaali were all dead...par it is hard to believe and also the way they preach there is a lot of Puratanta in them ..neo taksalis will talk hatred..a lot of not to do instead of what to do 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paapiman Posted August 21, 2015 Report Share Posted August 21, 2015 I think i have read something similiar on Nidar singh ji's website that the Taksaali were all dead...par it is hard to believe and also the way they preach there is a lot of Puratanta in them ..neo taksalis will talk hatred..a lot of not to do instead of what to doBro, what do you mean by neo taksalis? Do you mean, the ones after Srimaan Sant Baba Kartaar Singh jee Bhindranwale?Bhul chuk maaf 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paapiman Posted August 21, 2015 Report Share Posted August 21, 2015 (edited) Bro, even if the above is true, Srimaan Amar Shaheed Baba Mani Singh jee Maharaaj was also the head of DDT. When Baba jee was martyred, Daas does not think, any other Singhs of his jatha were martryed along with him. DDT could have continued their lineage through him. The Amritsari Taksaal still exists today.Bhul chuk maafSangat jee - Daas made a mistake above. There was Singh by the name of, Baba Gulzar Singh, who was a companion of Srimaan Amar Shaheed Baba Mani Singh jee Maharaaj. He was martyred along with Gyani jee.Daas apologizes.Bhul chuk maaf Edited August 21, 2015 by paapiman 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaikaara Posted August 21, 2015 Report Share Posted August 21, 2015 Bro, what do you mean by neo taksalis? Do you mean, the ones after Srimaan Sant Baba Kartaar Singh jee Bhindranwale?Bhul chuk maafNaa ji...by neo taksaalis i meant by lay men who claim to have taken amrit from Taksaal par galla sunn lo unhadi it has not absorbed anything which Taksaal Bhindran or Chowk Mehta says. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chatanga1 Posted August 21, 2015 Author Report Share Posted August 21, 2015 Bro, even if the above is true, Srimaan Amar Shaheed Baba Mani Singh jee Maharaaj was also the head of DDT. When Baba jee was martyred, Daas does not think, any other Singhs of his jatha were martryed along with him. Some Sikhs were killed alongside Bhai Mani Singh, I think 3 or 4. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paapiman Posted August 21, 2015 Report Share Posted August 21, 2015 (edited) Some Sikhs were killed alongside Bhai Mani Singh, I think 3 or 4.Thanks for correction paaji. Daas apologized above too.One was Shaheed Baba Gulzar Singh jee. Do you know, the names of the remaining ones?Bhul chuk maaf Edited August 21, 2015 by paapiman 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
amardeep Posted August 21, 2015 Report Share Posted August 21, 2015 According to the tradition 48 Sikhs recieved Santhia on that day and Baba Deep Singh and Bhai Mani Singh were made leaders of these "schools" and to continue the parchaar.It is possible that all of Baba Deep Singh's students were martyred during the many wars however the lineage and vidiya continued through Bhai Mani Singh and his students. Some time back I quoted a 19th century text wherein a parampara lineage was mentioned in the introduction of the manuscript.. This text mentions all the same names as current day taksalis quote. So the linage was not made up in the 1970s as some wish to claim - there is a history and tradition behind it. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chatanga1 Posted August 21, 2015 Author Report Share Posted August 21, 2015 One was Shaheed Baba Gulzar Singh jee. Do you know, the names of the remaining ones?Nope. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
amardeep Posted August 21, 2015 Report Share Posted August 21, 2015 I think the names of the other shaheeds is mentioned in Kuir Singh's Gurbilas Patshahi 10. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
namdhari55 Posted August 21, 2015 Report Share Posted August 21, 2015 According to the tradition 48 Sikhs recieved Santhia on that day and Baba Deep Singh and Bhai Mani Singh were made leaders of these "schools" and to continue the parchaar.It is possible that all of Baba Deep Singh's students were martyred during the many wars however the lineage and vidiya continued through Bhai Mani Singh and his students. Some time back I quoted a 19th century text wherein a parampara lineage was mentioned in the introduction of the manuscript.. This text mentions all the same names as current day taksalis quote. So the linage was not made up in the 1970s as some wish to claim - there is a history and tradition behind it.Can you name the text which has the parampara lineage. Also, it will be great if you can type or scan the whole quote for everyone to read. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
amardeep Posted August 21, 2015 Report Share Posted August 21, 2015 Can you name the text which has the parampara lineage. Also, it will be great if you can type or scan the whole quote for everyone to read.You can read the debate here: 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chatanga1 Posted October 25, 2015 Author Report Share Posted October 25, 2015 "As early as 1979, one eminent Sikh scholar, Prof.Trilochan Singh (1919-1993) who was involved in UNESCO publication ‘Sacred writings of the Sikhs’, saw through the lies of Baba Kartar Singh Samparda Chowk Mehta:‘To carry the distortion further, the Bhindrawaley Taksal now claims to be the spiritual descendants of ‘Damdami Taksal’ (Spiritual lineage of interpreters of Adi Guru Granth) of Baba Dip Singh, although all the followers of Baba Dip Singh and Baba Gurbaksh Singh died to the last man for the sanctity of the Golden Temple. They left no successor. Sant Sundar Singh founder of Bhindrawaley Taksal was student of Sant Gulab Singh, a Nirmala Saint and actually belonged to the Amritsali Taksal. I had the opportunity to meet Sant Inder Singh, brother of Sant Sundar Singh many times and got first-hand material about the Saints life from Sant Gurbachan Singh. Sant Inder Singh died at the age of 104.’‘The Turban And Sword Of Sikhs, Prof.Trilochan Singh, Pa.390"Have been catching up with my reading of "History of the Sikhs" by HR Gupta. Gupta writes regarding Baba Deep Singh that he left the seminary in the charge of Sada Singh. Has anyone heard of a Sada Singh being left in charge? Gupta was very meticulous in researching all the available sources before committing pen to paper. He gives his source as Sarup Lal's "Tarikh e Sikhan".Again I have not been able to find any further details of this work on the net.One thing he has solved (for me) is the sakhi of Baba Deep Singh. I couldn't find any source in writing for this story. It happened in 1757, and two important pieces of literature came soon after in 1760 and 1776 I think, but they don't mention it either.Again it is covered in Sarup Lal's work. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
amardeep Posted October 25, 2015 Report Share Posted October 25, 2015 Sada Singh. Interesting, I will try and see if there is any info on him. Maybe he is on the list of the 48 Singhs trained in Santhia at Damdama Sahib. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dalsingh101 Posted October 26, 2015 Report Share Posted October 26, 2015 Gupta was very meticulous in researching all the available sources before committing pen to paper. He gives his source as Sarup Lal's "Tarikh e Sikhan".He wasn't infallible or perfect mate. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chatanga1 Posted October 26, 2015 Author Report Share Posted October 26, 2015 He wasn't infallible or perfect mate. It wasn't suggested. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.