Poison cannot kill a Brahamgyani

[paapiman]

Sangat jee: Please listen to Gyani Avtar Singh jee Badnikalanwale narrating anecdotes, from the lives of Brahamgyanis (evil men trying to poison them).  

Please listen after 20.50 min.

http://www.gurmatveechar.com/audios/Katha/02_Present_Day_Katha/Bhai_Avtar_Singh_%28Badni_Kalan_wale%29/Katha_Sri_Guru_Granth_Sahib_Ji/CD_05/39--Bhai.Avtar.Singh--Katha.Guru.Granth.Sahib.Ji--Ang.177%2CLine.10.mp3

 

Bhul chuk maaf

[paapiman]

ਜਿਸੁ ਪ੍ਰਸਾਦਿ ਮਾਇਆ ਸਿਲਕ ਕਾਟੀ ॥

By whose grace the fetters of the mammon are cut off.

ਗੁਰ ਪ੍ਰਸਾਦਿ ਅੰਮ੍ਰਿਤੁ ਬਿਖੁ ਖਾਟੀ ॥

By whose favour, the sour poison has become Nectar.

 

Bhul chuk maaf

 

 

[SAadmin]

On 11/20/2015, 11:56:10, paapiman said:

ਜਿਸੁ ਪ੍ਰਸਾਦਿ ਮਾਇਆ ਸਿਲਕ ਕਾਟੀ ॥

By whose grace the fetters of the mammon are cut off.

ਗੁਰ ਪ੍ਰਸਾਦਿ ਅੰਮ੍ਰਿਤੁ ਬਿਖੁ ਖਾਟੀ ॥

By whose favour, the sour poison has become Nectar.

 

Bhul chuk maaf

 

 

Great practical example of gurbani tuk can be found in the sakhi of baba khuda singh ji maharaj from naurangabad/hoti mardan lineage when enemy trying feeding poison mixed with milk to baba ji, baba ji janaie jaan proactively asked for milk from person which he mixed poison int... as soon baba ji touched the milk it was turned into amrit.

[paapiman]

12 hours ago, N30 S!NGH said:

Great practical example of gurbani tuk can be found in the sakhi of baba khuda singh ji maharaj from naurangabad/hoti mardan lineage when enemy trying feeding poison mixed with milk to baba ji, baba ji janaie jaan proactively asked for milk from person which he mixed poison int... as soon baba ji touched the milk it was turned into amrit.

Dhan Dhan Srimaan Baba Khuda Singh jee Maharaaj

Dhan Dhan Baba Daya Singh jee Samprada

Dhan Dhan Dhan Satguru Sri Guru Nanak Rai Dev Bedi jee Maharaaj

 

Bhul chuk maaf

[paapiman]

ANG 274

ਤੈਸਾ ਸੁਵਰਨੁ ਤੈਸੀ ਉਸੁ ਮਾਟੀ ॥

As is gold, so is dust for him.

ਤੈਸਾ ਅੰਮ੍ਰਿਤੁ ਤੈਸੀ ਬਿਖੁ ਖਾਟੀ ॥

As is nectar, so is sour poison for him.

 

Bhul chuk maaf

[paapiman]

ANG 1357

ਬਿਖਯਾ ਭਯੰਤਿ ਅੰਮ੍ਰਿਤੰ ਦ੍ਰੁਸਟਾਂ ਸਖਾ ਸ੍ਵਜਨਹ ॥

Poison is transformed into nectar, and enemies into friends and companions.

 

Bhul chuk maaf

[HisServant]

I know a gurmukh who someone tried to kill by poisoning him. To this day he doesn't know how he's still alive.

[BhagatSingh]

Let's not twist Gurbani for our own purposes.

ਜਿਸੁ ਪ੍ਰਸਾਦਿ ਮਾਇਆ ਸਿਲਕ ਕਾਟੀ ॥ ਗੁਰ ਪ੍ਰਸਾਦਿ ਅੰਮ੍ਰਿਤੁ ਬਿਖੁ ਖਾਟੀ ॥
By his grace, the attachment to Maya is cut. By guru's grace, the poison, that is attachment to Maya, is transformed to amrit, that is a detached presence.

[paapiman]

7 hours ago, BhagatSingh said:

Let's not twist Gurbani for our own purposes.

ਜਿਸੁ ਪ੍ਰਸਾਦਿ ਮਾਇਆ ਸਿਲਕ ਕਾਟੀ ॥ ਗੁਰ ਪ੍ਰਸਾਦਿ ਅੰਮ੍ਰਿਤੁ ਬਿਖੁ ਖਾਟੀ ॥
By his grace, the attachment to Maya is cut. By guru's grace, the poison, that is attachment to Maya, is transformed to amrit, that is a detached presence.

Bro, no one has twisted Gurbani in this topic. Gurbani has multiple interpretations. Your explanation is also right.

 

Bhul chuk maaf

[BhagatSingh]

6 hours ago, paapiman said:

Bro, no one has twisted Gurbani in this topic. Gurbani has multiple interpretations. Your explanation is also right.

Yes many shabads do have multiple interpretations but at the same time not all interpretations are equally correct. I am all for having multiple interpretations that increase understanding but I am also against wrong interpretations that change the nature of what Guru Sahib was trying to convey.

ਬਿਖ and ਅੰਮ੍ਰਿਤ have fixed meanings in Gurbani. They are not referring to people surviving from poison attacks. They are referring to spiritual concepts.

ਬਿਖ is not referring to a material substance, it is referring to attachment to Maya, which in Gurbani is termed as an illness and poisoning. The reason we know that is true is because through Bhagti it is transformed into ਅੰਮ੍ਰਿਤ . ਅੰਮ੍ਰਿਤ is referring solely to a spiritual quality of "detached presence" and "timeless dimension of our experience". So when we go back to understand ਬਿਖ, we cannot understand it as a material substance.

This becomes clear here -

ਅੰਮ੍ਰਿਤੁ ਛੋਡਿ ਬਿਖਿਆ ਲੋਭਾਣੇ ਸੇਵਾ ਕਰਹਿ ਵਿਡਾਣੀ ॥

[dalsingh101]

11 minutes ago, BhagatSingh said:

Yes many shabads do have multiple interpretations but at the same time not all interpretations are equally correct. I am all for having multiple interpretations that increase understanding but I am also against wrong interpretations that change the nature of what Guru Sahib was trying to convey.

ਬਿਖ and ਅੰਮ੍ਰਿਤ have fixed meanings in Gurbani. They are not referring to people surviving from poison attacks. They are referring to spiritual concepts.

ਬਿਖ is not referring to a material substance, it is referring to attachment to Maya, which in Gurbani is termed as an illness and poisoning. The reason we know that is true is because through Bhagti it is transformed into ਅੰਮ੍ਰਿਤ . ਅੰਮ੍ਰਿਤ is referring solely to a spiritual quality of "detached presence" and "timeless dimension of our experience". So when we go back to understand ਬਿਖ, we cannot understand it as a material substance.

This becomes clear here -

ਅੰਮ੍ਰਿਤੁ ਛੋਡਿ ਬਿਖਿਆ ਲੋਭਾਣੇ ਸੇਵਾ ਕਰਹਿ ਵਿਡਾਣੀ ॥

Finally, something we agree on. lol!!!

[Guest Shankh]

19 minutes ago, BhagatSingh said:

ਬਿਖ and ਅੰਮ੍ਰਿਤ have fixed meanings in Gurbani. They are not referring to people surviving from poison attacks. They are referring to spiritual concept

ਜੇ ਸਉ ਅੰਮ੍ਰਿਤੁ ਨੀਰੀਐ ਭੀ ਬਿਖੁ ਫਲੁ ਲਾਗੈ ਧਾਇ ॥੪॥

Even if the poisonous plant is watered with ambrosial nectar a hundred times, it will still bear poisonous fruit. ||4||

So that means in Gurbani Bikh is also Poison.

[Guest Shankh]

Here is another one where Bikh means Poison

ਬਿਸੀਅਰ ਕਉ ਬਹੁ ਦੂਧੁ ਪੀਆਈਐ ਬਿਖੁ ਨਿਕਸੈ ਫੋਲਿ ਫੁਲੀਠਾ ॥੩॥

Even if the poisonous snake is fed large amounts of milk, it will still yield only poison. ||3||

[Guest Harpreet]

This is NOT speaking about a physical snake! It's metaphor only! It's describing the self-willed manmukhs in the line directly above it.  So it is STILL speaking of spiritual concept! Bhagat Singh Ji is correct. 

ਮਨਮੁਖ ਹੀਅਰਾ ਅਤਿ ਕਠੋਰੁ ਹੈ ਤਿਨ ਅੰਤਰਿ ਕਾਰ ਕਰੀਠਾ ॥
मनमुख हीअरा अति कठोरु है तिन अंतरि कार करीठा ॥
Manmukẖ hī▫arā aṯ kaṯẖor hai ṯin anṯar kār karīṯẖā.
The hearts of the self-willed manmukhs are hard and cruel; their inner beings are dark.

ਬਿਸੀਅਰ ਕਉ ਬਹੁ ਦੂਧੁ ਪੀਆਈਐ ਬਿਖੁ ਨਿਕਸੈ ਫੋਲਿ ਫੁਲੀਠਾ ॥੩॥
बिसीअर कउ बहु दूधु पीआईऐ बिखु निकसै फोलि फुलीठा ॥३॥
Bisī▫ar ka▫o baho ḏūḏẖ pī▫ā▫ī▫ai bikẖ niksai fol fuṯẖīlā. ||3||
Even if the poisonous snake is fed large amounts of milk, it will still yield only poison. ||3||
 

This is ALSO NOT speaking about physical poison or miracles! Hate to burst your bubble! It's also metaphor. The poison is actually Maya and with Guru's grace, the illusion of Maya is destroyed, and the path becomes obvious (it becomes as amrit). Its pretty clear if you don't try to take tuks out of context! Or else anyone can take any single tuk they want and find any to support their argument, no matter what it is they are trying to argue! 

ਜਿਸੁ ਪ੍ਰਸਾਦਿ ਮਾਇਆ ਸਿਲਕ ਕਾਟੀ ॥
जिसु प्रसादि माइआ सिलक काटी ॥
Jis parsāḏ mā▫i▫ā silak kātī.
By His Grace, the bonds of Maya are cut away.

ਗੁਰ ਪ੍ਰਸਾਦਿ ਅੰਮ੍ਰਿਤੁ ਬਿਖੁ ਖਾਟੀ ॥
गुर प्रसादि अम्रितु बिखु खाटी ॥
Gur parsāḏ amriṯ bikẖ kẖātī.
By Guru's Grace, the bitter poison has become Ambrosial Nectar.

 

 

[Guest shankh]

Kaura Reetha was turned into a sweet fruit by Guru Nanak. Now please dont say that sakhi is also a metaphor.

Gurbani is multi dimensional . It has both metaphorical and literal uses, depends on the intention of person.

Not even poison, but physical nature of many things can be changed once you go beyond physical dimension.

I dont care how anyone interprets Gurbani as long as you benefit from it.  I only have a problem with enlcosing Gurbani in a boundary. If you dont know atleast acknowledge that you are not able to go beyond the metaphors yet. Dont claim yourself an expert especially on Gurbani.

[Guest Harpreet]

If you followed literal meanings of some things in Gurbani then bowing to idols is ok. Drinking alcohol is ok. Worshipping many Hindu deities is ok. Covering oneself in ashes is ok. Women being burned on funeral pyre is ok. Are these things ok? Of course not! But you can easily take one liners out of context of the shabad and thats what you get!  I was not saying that all gurbani is metaphor. I was saying that you need to read the whole shabad / pauri to get the context. In that context you can easily see in the above examples that they are using metaphor, just by reading the line directly above it.  Why would there be an extraneous line in the middle of a shabad speaking entirely about Maya, making some comment about literal poison being turned into literal amrit? I am not saying whole gurbani is metaphor but read the full shabad to get the context to decide the central meaning and message conveyed. You can not take one line by itself as many times the idea is brought across in one line and then completely refuted in the next. Yet many people have taken those lines to suit their needs, while ignoring the second line. We can not disregard the central message that was intended. Think about it. Camp 1 takes one line out of context because it seems to support what they believe. Camp 2 says look at the very next line, it says that which was spoken about in the previous line will get you nowhere! Gurbani is TRUTH meaning it can not contradict itself EVER! Both the above can NOT be true. Therefore, the only way to make sure you get the message conveyed you must understand the context of the shabad. You do that by reading the full shabad, and pay particular attention to the rahao line! 

[BhagatSingh]

My work is done when people start avoiding the issue and go off-topic talking about "sakhis" and "gurbani expertise".

[Koi]

Those who think this is merely metaphorical, consider this: there are many instances in other religions where poison has not affected a Bhagat, for example, Mira bai. Nothing metaphorical there.

I could name loads more, but you get the point. 

[paapiman]

9 hours ago, Guest Harpreet said:

 Therefore, the only way to make sure you get the message conveyed you must understand the context of the shabad. 

Guest jee - Context can help you to understand Gurbani, but Gurbani cannot be bound with context.  Bhagat Singh jee's meanings might conform with the context, but they are not the only meanings of those verses.

 

Bhul chuk maaf

[paapiman]

8 hours ago, Guest Harpreet said:

If you followed literal meanings of some things in Gurbani then bowing to idols is ok. Drinking alcohol is ok. Worshipping many Hindu deities is ok. Covering oneself in ashes is ok. Women being burned on funeral pyre is ok. Are these things ok? Of course not!

Can you please provide examples of the above?

 

Bhul chuk maaf

[paapiman]

8 hours ago, Guest Harpreet said:

 Why would there be an extraneous line in the middle of a shabad speaking entirely about Maya, making some comment about literal poison being turned into literal amrit? 

Do you believe Gurbani can convert poison into Amrit or not?

Where is the contradiction in this case?

 

Bhul chuk maaf

[paapiman]

18 hours ago, BhagatSingh said:

ਬਿਖ and ਅੰਮ੍ਰਿਤ have fixed meanings in Gurbani. They are not referring to people surviving from poison attacks. They are referring to spiritual concepts.

ਬਿਖ and ਅੰਮ੍ਰਿਤ possibly have multiple meanings. 

Do you believe Gurbani can convert poison into Amrit or not? If yes, then how is this a wrong interpretation?

 

Bhul chuk maaf

[paapiman]

10 hours ago, Guest shankh said:

Kaura Reetha was turned into a sweet fruit by Guru Nanak. Now please dont say that sakhi is also a metaphor.

Gurbani is multi dimensional . It has both metaphorical and literal uses, depends on the intention of person.

Not even poison, but physical nature of many things can be changed once you go beyond physical dimension.

I only have a problem with enlcosing Gurbani in a boundary.

Brilliant points above.

 

Bhul chuk maaf

[Guest Seeker]

Paapiman Veerji, Gurbani CAN turn poison into Amrit. But the posion that is being turned into Amrit is Maya, the illusion of separateness, the Ego identity. That is the poison. It is not speaking about someone drinking bleach or such.  There are certain physics and chemistry laws of the universe that can not be changed. 

Humans have searched for a literal philosopher's stone for a very long time, something that turns lead into gold. When most were looking for something physical and literal to turn the metal lead into gold, it was only a very few who were blessed by God, to understand that the "lead" was the human spirit and the transformation into "gold" was the elevating of that spirit to a higher level (taking something dark and muted and not shining and turning it into something polished and sparkling and illuminated) the philosopher's stone was nothing physical at all. It was the surpassing the illusion of reality and separateness. (Gurbani even mentions the philosophers stone by the way.)  But just as there were many who clamored to a physical literal element that can turn lead into gold (presumably so they can become rich off selling the gold metal), we too have Sikhs clamoring to literal miracles and what Gurbani calls "pompous show". The true miracle happens entirely within.

In the physical world, there are still physical limitations bound by physics and chemistry set in place by Satguru Jee. The soul will never be harmed but a human body most definitely can be harmed within the confines of this limited lifetime. The physical body of a Brahamgiani can still bleed. This is a fact of laws of the Universe which can not be changed. The physical body of a Brahamgiani can still succumb to dangerous chemicals ingested (physical poison). Its very very obvious in the above referenced tuks in this thread that the poison being referred to is not bleach or arsenic etc. (for example) or other physically dangerous chemicals. It is referring to the very real poison within the soul, that is Ego and Maya, being separated from God. It is THIS kind of poison that very much CAN be turned into Amrit (just as the lead is turned into gold by the philosopher's stone) and that is the point!

You can try to pull a single tuk and try to say that your interpretation is correct, but it doesn't make it so. The shabads were written as a whole for a reason. The verses put together convey the meaning. Otherwise Gurbani would be single lines in point form. There would be no need for a rahao line as every line would be its own central point. We have to be very careful we are not twisting the meaning and context to be what we WANT it to be versus what the original meaning was. And I think the above are good examples of that!

[paapiman]

33 minutes ago, Guest Seeker said:

Paapiman Veerji, Gurbani CAN turn poison into Amrit. But the posion that is being turned into Amrit is Maya, the illusion of separateness, the Ego identity. That is the poison. It is not speaking about someone drinking bleach or such.  There are certain physics and chemistry laws of the universe that can not be changed. 

Gurbani is above the laws of Physics and Chemistry. Gurbani can do anything.

 

Bhul chuk maaf