40 Greatest Sikhs Who Believed ‘Dasam Granth’ the Work of Sri Guru Gobind Singh Ji

[Ragmaala]

http://dailysikhupdates.com/dasam-granth-guru-gobind-singh/

 

The following Sikhs are among the greatest scholars of Sikh history and Gurbani who believed Dasam Granth or once known as ‘Dasvien Patshah Ka Granth’ to be the work of Sri Guru Gobind Singh Ji. For a detailed report on historical evidences see: Evidence

Poet Senapat(1711) Senapati was a court poet of Guru Gobind Singh Ji, mentions Dasam Granth in his work Sri Gur Sobha.

Poet Senapat Mentioned Guru Gobind Singh and Akal Purakh Conversation in his Granth

Bhai Chaupa Singh mentions it in his Rehitnama (Early 18th Century)

Bhai Nand Lal Rehitnama/TankhahNama (Early 18th Century)

Bhai Prahlad Singh in his Rehitnama

Guru Mahima – Poet Chand Svarankaar(Early 18th Century)

Poet Chaand Svarkaar was Court Poet of Guru Gobind Singh.

Chandd Narbad Singh Bhatt(Early 18th Century) Court Poet of Guru Gobind Singh

Bava Seva Dass (1741) in Parchi Gobind Singh Ki

Koer Singh Kalal(1751) in Gurbilas Patshahi 10

Kavi Darbar Asthan

Kesar Singh Chibber (1769) BansavaliNama Dasan Patshahi Ka

Sarup Chand Bhalla (1776) in Sri Guru Mahima Parkash

Svaroop Singh Kausish (1790) Guru Kian Sakhian

Giani Sukkha Singh (1797) Gurbilas Patshahi 10

Kavi Kankan(Late 18th Century) in Das Guru Katha

JB Malcolm (1812) in Sketch of Sikhs

 

Bhai Mani Singh Shaheed Bilas

Kavi Santokh Singh in Gurpartap Suraj Granth

Max Arthur Macaliffe

 

Giani Gian Singh’s Writings

Giani Ditt Singh’s Writings

20th Century (1901-2000)

 

Kahn Singh Nabha’s writings
Bhai Randhir Singh’s Writings
Bhai Randhir Singh Research Scholar’s Writings
Bhai Veer Singh’s Writings
Sirdar Kapur Singh’s Writings
Historian Karam Singh’s Writings
Joginder Singh Talwarha’s Writings
Giani Haribas Singh’s Writings
Dr. Trilochan Singh’s Writings
Professor Sahib SIngh’s Writings

Professor Sahib Singh writer of Guru Granth Darpan

Sant Jarnail Singh Bhindrawale did detailed Kathas on various topics of Dasam Granth

Sant Kartar Singh Khalsa Bhindranwale did detailed Kathas on various topics of Dasam Granth

Sant Gurbachan Singh Khalsa Bhindranwale did detailed Kathas on various topics of Dasam Granth

Giani Sant Singh Ji Maskeen performed Katha on many Banis of Dasam Granth

Giani Pinderpal Singh has done Katha on different Banis of Dasam Granth

Teja Singh Bhasaur in his writings.

[samurai]

also all takhts recognizee dasam granth to be bani of the tenth master..

I think the authenticity of dasam bani is not a problem..its a case of can you understand it..and/or practice it...

Gurgaddi was given to guru granth sahib ji maharaj..as it is a universal granth...dasam bani is not...

[BhagatSingh]

It would be a great idea to study what those guys wrote one by one.

@samurai I don't think that's the case.
Once you understand it, there are some internal differences that make you wonder whether Dasam Granth was all written by one person.

Also, Guru Granth Sahib is a pretty specific religious text. I mean in any spiritual teaching there are universal and local elements. It's also true of Guru Granth Sahib and it's also true of Dasam Granth.

[CdnSikhGirl]

6 minutes ago, BhagatSingh said:

I don't think that's the case.
Once you understand it, there are some internal differences that make you wonder whether Dasam Granth was all written by one person.
 

Funny that you can say the above without @chatanga1 getting all up in your kacheras calling you nindak.... He must only pick on girls. 

 

[BhagatSingh]

1 hour ago, Satkirin_Kaur said:

Funny that you can say the above without @chatanga1 getting all up in your kacheras calling you nindak.... He must only pick on girls. 

Here we go again.

You know it helps if you don't do nindya. Even now when you saying that you are doing nindya of Chatanga. You could've said that in a respectful way but you chose to disrespect. You say men and women should respect each other, and you say you hate men who disrespect women but then you turn around and start disrespecting men.

 

 

[CdnSikhGirl]

I was just pointing out how you suggesting that it could have more than one author doesn't get him riled but for the same thing he called me nindak. I don't think I owe him anything with the way he's treated me. And nindak means slander right? Slander means false. I didn't say anything which was false. Even stating i am neutral on DG makes him call me nindak and every other word in the book. But he hasn't said anything to you.

every time he posts something on here he does nindya of me but nobody says anything to him at all!!!

[Koi]

Just to add, ALL of the traditional sampardas  (udasi, sevapanthi, nirmala, nihang, taksal, nanaksar, rara sahib (bhai daya Singh samparda ) etc etc) believe 100% in dasam granth. It's only these new age "qualified" people who think they know better.

[samurai]

@BhagatSingh

 If you are looking at it as a piece of literature and want to study it, it pretty much is for everyone, in terms of the study of it. Interms of the practice of it (reciting jaaps etc) its not everyones cup of tea. sorry universal was wrong term, (i use this term when talking to people meaning people/everyone, not in the sense of actual universe/universal teaching) my bad..

Im in no way a scholor (dont have the brains for it..lol) neither have i studied the whole of dasam bani but what are the internal differences you have come across? is it a specific part or a bani? id like to look into it... or is this a case that you need to study all of it to recognize/analyse this difference??

[paapiman]

A big name missing in the above list is Vidya Martand Srimaan 108 Sant Gyani Amir Singh jee Khalsa Sato kee Gali wale, who was the head of Amritsari Taksaal.

Baba jee is the record holder for the maximum number of completed Kathas of SSGGSJM, done by any person. Baba jee did the complete katha 60 times during his lifetime.

Daas is not sure, as to how many times he completed the katha of Sri Dasam Granth Sahib jee. The routine at both the Taksaals, Bhindran and Amritsar, was to do katha of SSGGSJM in the morning, Katha of SDGSJ in the afternoon and Katha of Ithehaas (History) in the evening.  Therefore, most likely, Baba jee must have completed the Katha of SDGSJ multiple times.

 

Bhul chuk maaf

[amardeep]

Quote

"Once you understand it, there are some internal differences that make you wonder whether Dasam Granth was all written by one person.

Can you give some examples?

 

 

[Ragmaala]

14 hours ago, BhagatSingh said:

 

 

 

This theme song made my day.

[chatanga1]

17 hours ago, BhagatSingh said:

 

@samurai I don't think that's the case.
Once you understand it, there are some internal differences that make you wonder whether Dasam Granth was all written by one person.
 

 

Please elaborate on these internal differences.

[BhagatSingh]

17 hours ago, Satkirin_Kaur said:

And nindak means slander right? Slander means false.

No.

Nindya is pointing out awgun, bad qualities. If you call a blind person, "blind" then going into nindya territory. You want to be careful to not do nindya, so avoid calling blind people "blind". If you go to different thread and say "So and so said this thing which I consider bad" that is also nindya.

There's nindya, pointing out awgun, that's one thing, and then there is also disrespect, which adds another layer of muck on top of your posts. Tameez nal gal karni. To talk with utmost respect and good manners.

Anytime your position is not the position of the majority, you are going to be held up to a higher standard. And if you don't meet that standard you will be dismissed on things that have nothing to do with the content of your argument. It happens to everyone, including me.

Look... you can F around with people as much as you want. But then don't come crying afterwards if you get dismissed. You intentionally provoke people and then when they react, you cry and B about it. People stop taking you seriously, then you cry more. This is childish behaviour.

[BhagatSingh]

13 hours ago, Koi said:

Just to add, ALL of the traditional sampardas  (udasi, sevapanthi, nirmala, nihang, taksal, nanaksar, rara sahib (bhai daya Singh samparda ) etc etc) believe 100% in dasam granth. It's only these new age "qualified" people who think they know better.

When you see that a lot of our scholars simply parrot each other, then you will less inclined to take this at face value. Scholars are really good for getting a basic idea. However it's almost never the full picture.

Also keep in the mind, the colonial influence on our point of view, the product of which is the British Singh Sabha and the distortions that enter through them. The anti-Hindu bias we have today goes back to the colonial Christian missionaries, who sought to stain our traditions.

So you really have to go to the original sources as far back as you can to get the accurate picture.

[CdnSikhGirl]

21 minutes ago, BhagatSingh said:

No.

Nindya is pointing out awgun, bad qualities. If you call a blind person, "blind" then going into nindya territory. You want to be careful to not do nindya, so avoid calling blind people "blind". If you go to different thread and say "So and so said this thing which I consider bad" that is also nindya.

There's nindya, pointing out awgun, that's one thing, and then there is also disrespect, which adds another layer of muck on top of your posts. Tameez nal gal karni. To talk with utmost respect and good manners.

Anytime your position is not the position of the majority, you are going to be held up to a higher standard. And if you don't meet that standard you will be dismissed on things that have nothing to do with the content of your argument. It happens to everyone, including me.

Look... you can F around with people as much as you want. But then don't come crying afterwards if you get dismissed. You intentionally provoke people and then when they react, you cry and B about it. People stop taking you seriously, then you cry more. This is childish behaviour.

So why is it ok if he does nindya of me? Why does nobody say anything?? Nearly every single post he makes on this site he calls me liar etc.  Nobody says a single thing but if I simply point out that for doing the same exact thing he does not call you names, you jump all over me saying I am doing nindya of him. But what about the nindya he did of me first??? 

 

[BhagatSingh]

15 minutes ago, Satkirin_Kaur said:

you jump all over me saying I am doing nindya of him

No you came to me, and brought up Chatanga. I told you that he is reacting to your behaviour. You are a grown woman, you can sort it out for yourself. You don't need to create a scene in every thread and make it about you.

[BhagatSingh]

10 hours ago, samurai said:

@BhagatSingh

 If you are looking at it as a piece of literature and want to study it, it pretty much is for everyone, in terms of the study of it. Interms of the practice of it (reciting jaaps etc) its not everyones cup of tea. sorry universal was wrong term, (i use this term when talking to people meaning people/everyone, not in the sense of actual universe/universal teaching) my bad..

Im in no way a scholor (dont have the brains for it..lol) neither have i studied the whole of dasam bani but what are the internal differences you have come across? is it a specific part or a bani? id like to look into it... or is this a case that you need to study all of it to recognize/analyse this difference??

8 hours ago, amardeep said:

Can you give some examples?

2 hours ago, chatanga1 said:

Please elaborate on these internal differences.

There's theological differences between various writings in Dasam Granth.

You have to have a keen eye to recognize these, be able to recognize the language and the use of such language in other scriptures and in Dasam Granth. Following from that it helps if you have studied Indian religions and how they are structured, and know a little bit about their scriptures as well.

So I'll give you one example -

In Chandi Di Var, Bhagawati is the supreme, everything is created by her, she is the source of all things. That's why this writing starts with - ਪ੍ਰਿਥਮ ਭਗੌਤੀ ਸਿਮਰਿ ਕੈ

ਖੰਡਾ ਪ੍ਰਿਥਮੈ ਸਾਜ ਕੈ ਜਿਨ ਸਭ ਸੈਸਾਰੁ ਉਪਾਇਆ ॥
Khanda prithme saaj kai jin sab sansaar upaya
First the divine feminine creates the masculine principle. First Bhagawati creates Khanda who is symbol of masculine force that is consciousness or spirit. Then with that she creates the entire world.

(In Indic thought, the universe is split into masculine (spirit) and feminine (matter and energy) forces.)

Now the next line splits the masculine force into three elements.

ਬ੍ਰਹਮਾ ਬਿਸਨੁ ਮਹੇਸ ਸਾਜਿ ਕੁਦਰਤਿ ਦਾ ਖੇਲੁ ਰਚਾਇ ਬਣਾਇਆ ॥
Three elements are - creative, preservative and destructive, and with these three elements this the play of nature was created.

Bhagawati creates the world, the mountains, skies, and populates with angels and demons.

ਤੈ ਹੀ ਦੁਰਗਾ ਸਾਜਿ ਕੈ ਦੈਤਾ ਦਾ ਨਾਸੁ ਕਰਾਇਆ ॥
Bhagawati then creates Durga to wipe out the demons whenever they cause trouble.

ਤੈਥੋਂ ਹੀ ਬਲੁ ਰਾਮ ਲੈ
ਤੈਥੋਂ ਹੀ ਬਲੁ ਕ੍ਰਿਸਨ ਲੈ
Shri Ram and Krishan ji get their power from her. Many great sages even could not know her end.
 

This is the basic Shakat belief system, in a nutshell.  Shaktism, it's where the divine feminine is considered the source of everything. And that is the underlying belief system in Chandi di Var.

Contrast this with other parts of Dasam Granth where Mahakal/Kaal Purakh/Shri Kaal/Shri Kharag, the divine masculine is the source of everything.

Also contract this with Guru Granth Sahib, where Shri Ram and Krishan ji are the source of all beings and source of power itself. ਏਕ ਕ੍ਰਿਸ੍ਨੰ ਤ ਸਰਬ ਦੇਵਾ ਦੇਵ ਦੇਵਾ ਤ ਆਤਮਹ ॥ ਆਤਮੰ ਸ੍ਰੀ ਬਾਸ੍ਵਦੇਵਸ੍ਯ੍ਯ ਜੇ ਕੋਈ ਜਾਨਸਿ ਭੇਵ ॥

These kinds of theological differences are present within Dasam Granth, and these differences arise between Dasam Granth and Guru Granth Sahib.

And @amardeep you were asking before, why I thought Guru Sahib never added Dasam Granth to Guru Granth Sahib. This is a small taste of why he didn't mix them. The theology in all parts of Guru Granth Sahib is the same. The theology in Dasam Granth varies, party-by-part, and it is very different from Guru Granth Sahib. So if you mix them it will lead to a lot of confusion. Ideally you want to keep them separate.

@amardeep You also want to consider my response to your post about the parallels in Bachittar Natak Granth and Bhagawad Gita. It is a related post.

 

[chatanga1]

5 minutes ago, BhagatSingh said:

So I'll give you one example -

In Chandi Di Var, Bhagawati is the supreme, everything is created by her, she is the source of all things. That's why this writing starts with - ਪ੍ਰਿਥਮ ਭਗੌਤੀ ਸਿਮਰਿ ਕੈ

Bhagouti is not refering to any female power here. It's is a reference to Sri Akal Purakh.

In this granth, Guru Ji uses the line "katha Bhagaut ki bhakia sunai" so how would this creative power go from female to male? The reasoning is that it doesn't, or probably, even can't.

[BhagatSingh]

58 minutes ago, chatanga1 said:

Bhagouti is not refering to any female power here. It's is a reference to Sri Akal Purakh.

Akal Purakh is a masculine noun.

Bhagawati is a feminine noun.

This has theological implications which are overtly described later on, literally right in the next few lines.

 

Quote

Guru Ji uses the line "katha Bhagaut ki bhakia sunai"

Where is that?

[samurai]

@BhagatSingh.. thanks veereh for your reply..

Just to clear up things a little for myself.. im not a scholar so i apologize for my lay questions and answers in advance...

so what your saying veereh in terms of theology..the questions arises in  dasam granth that at times nirankar is supreme and at other times maya shakti is supreme..so no consistency in comparison to sri guru granth sahib ji maharaj..??

Am i right to assume that we are on the same wavelengh that not every jeev desires kaival mukhti ??...

 

[chatanga1]

20 hours ago, BhagatSingh said:

 

 

20 hours ago, BhagatSingh said:

Where is that?

It keeps going through my mind. I will look for it. I think it's in Rehras Sahib.

[BhagatSingh]

22 hours ago, samurai said:

@BhagatSingh.. thanks veereh for your reply..

Just to clear up things a little for myself.. im not a scholar so i apologize for my lay questions and answers in advance...

so what your saying veereh in terms of theology..the questions arises in  dasam granth that at times nirankar is supreme and at other times maya shakti is supreme..so no consistency in comparison to sri guru granth sahib ji maharaj..??

Yes you are close.

All religions are talking about Nirankar, from absolute point of view.

It's like going up the mountain and reaching the same peak. That highest peak is unknowable, unattainable, cannot be spoken about, etc. but the paths to get there are different. The paths are known as religions. This is what I mean by religious structure or theological structure. How each path views the highest peak and how they describe it. (The names they use to describe it are dead giveaways but other evidence must be considered as well.)

So what we are talking about is the type of religious structure that gets us to the top. This religious structure varies from writing to writing in Dasam Granth.

The theological structure that is based on the names of the highest peak - Shri Kaal, Mahakal, Shri Kharag, Kaal Purakh is different from that based on the names of the highest peak - Bhagawati, Maya, Shakti and Shaarda.

And these theological structures are different from Guru Granth Sahib which are based on the names of the highest peak - Hari, Vishnu, Ram, Krishna.

These are different religions.

 

So to repeat -
1. The theological structure in Guru Granth Sahib does not vary from writing to writing from poet to poet. It has 1 consistent structure throughout the book.
2. The theological structures in Dasam Granth do vary from writing to writing and from poet to poet. It has multiple structures through the book(s).
3. The theological structures in Dasam Granth are different from Guru Granth Sahib. This depends on which writing we are looking at, certain writings differ more than others.
 

Quote

Am i right to assume that we are on the same wavelengh that not every jeev desires kaival mukhti ??...

I am not sure how that is related to this discussion.

[paapiman]

On 1/28/2016 at 6:29 PM, BhagatSingh said:

Where is that?

 

16 hours ago, chatanga1 said:

It keeps going through my mind. I will look for it. I think it's in Rehras Sahib.

Chatanga1 Paaji - Are you referring to the line below?

"Dasam Katha Bhaagaut kee Bhaakhaa Karee Baneye"

If it is, this line is in Sri Rehraas Sahib jee (Nanaksar Maryada). Most likely, Nihangs read it too. It is not present in Pothis published by DDT.

 

Bhul chuk maaf

 

[Ragmaala]

What about the theological structure within Sikhism, where the main focus is Guru Nanak & Guru Granth Sahib only.
 Here Waheguru Nirankar is Guru Nanak & Guru's Guru is Sri Guru Granth Sahib.

For example, in Nanaksar Samparda, the two great saints, Baba Nand Singh Ji & Baba Ishar Singh , focused most exclusively on Guru Nanak as Nirankar/God & Guru Granth Sahib as Guru.  They advocated dhyan of Guru Nanak, and worship of Guru Granth Sahib as physical body of Guru Nanak. They advised there is nothing beyond Guru Nanak, & he is your only goal, his darshan & his lotus feet. By doing his dhyan you will go straight to Sachkhand.

I guess the above would also classify as a theological structure within Sikhism, right ? I like this term theological structure.  So maybe this is "Nanakism". ?

[amardeep]

@chatanga the line is from Sri Krishna Avatar in the Chaubis Avatar section of the Dasam Granth.

@BhagatSingh The word Bhaugati is used in 18th century litterature as a signifier of a sword. This can be seen in the Prem Sumarag Granth as well as the Kharkha Guru Gobind Singh Ji ke of Chandrasain Sainapati. Also as Raagmala has shown, the word is used as sword in the apochrypha Bhaugati Astotar.

As the Guru does namaskaar to the sword in the manglacharan of Chandi Di vaar it shows a continuity with the other writings of Sri Dasam Granth Sahib where the manglacharan also contain a namaskaar to the sword (Bachitar Natak, Akal Ustat,Shastarnaam Mala Granth etc.).

regarding the Sri Bhagavad Gita topic, you turned it into a discussion on the authorship of the Sri Dasam which I could'n be bothered with at the time, so thats why I did'n reply.

 

Edited January 30, 2016 by amardeep