Mugermach Singh Posted August 23, 2004 Report Share Posted August 23, 2004 easy with the temper guys, lol, no temper, just good ol cussing match yaara. its good ke singha de chandee karakhdee!, but lets only use krodh, and ahankar in limits (like gurmukhs) when it is truly needed. the truth is we are all different and even being very similar we will differ in views. Lets focus on oankaar, and say "waheguru". come on everybody, online simran.. every1 join in.. waheguru.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Singh47 Posted August 23, 2004 Report Share Posted August 23, 2004 Mugarmuch your way of conversing reminds me of an old Indian saying “apnay ghar dha vich taa kuthaa bhi Sher hundaa hai†(even a dog acts like a lion in his hous). If you truly want to prove to me that you are infact a “mugarmach†then come and meet me in any Gurdwara Sahib in the GTA area. Then I will see if your Mugarmach Birthaah (bravery) is a real as you pretend it to be or as fake as Mugarmach ke ansou (crocodile tears). And yes, I will get more then your beloved "Mr Kipling Apple Pies". BTW, in Punjabi when calling a person “Sidhaah†it does not mean “thinking straight†but means a person who is very slow and unintelligent in other words moorakh. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mugermach Singh Posted August 23, 2004 Report Share Posted August 23, 2004 Mugarmuch your way of conversing reminds me of an old Indian saying “apnay ghar dha vich taa kuthaa bhi Sher hundaa hai†(even a dog acts like a lion in his house). Singh47, dont call yourself a dog, its not nice. Me making fun of you is one thing, but u making fun of yourself is just wrong.. If you truly want to prove to me that you are infact a “mugarmach†then come and meet me in any Gurdwara Sahib in the GTA area. mugermach not mugarmach. but anyways, what the hell is the GTA area?? Then I will see if your Mugarmach Birthaah (bravery) is a real as you pretend it to be or as fake as Mugarmach ke ansou (crocodile tears). you'd make a bad poet. anyways, after i find out what GTA is, i'll reply back,# Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Singh47 Posted August 23, 2004 Report Share Posted August 23, 2004 Mugermuch, I don’t care to understand your bania way of conversing. Only weaklings talk like that. GTA means greater Toronto area. Hope to see you soon. Your pie is waiting for you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mugermach Singh Posted August 23, 2004 Report Share Posted August 23, 2004 Mugermuch, I don’t care to understand your bania way of conversing. Only weaklings talk like that. GTA means greater Toronto area. Hope to see you soon. You pie is waiting for you. god, ur a bigger dumbass then i thought if you think im coming there. lol i thought you were from england (see, i can think like u too ). leh, have fun sitting in GTA, if you ever drop into england and you still got that chip on ur shoulder, track me down. night yaara, fateh. ps, the pie's getting cold, u eat it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Singh47 Posted August 23, 2004 Report Share Posted August 23, 2004 Oh well, the offer still stands. If you ever plan on dropping by visiting your relatives in Toronto, please do PM me. "ps, the pie's getting cold, u eat it." I'll mail it to you Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mugermach Singh Posted August 23, 2004 Report Share Posted August 23, 2004 Oh well, the offer still stands. If you ever plan on dropping by visiting your relatives in Toronto, please do PM me.no problemo. Leh, any1 would think we are mates now, lol, see what a little humour can do, come to think of it singh47, i would say that you actually understand that shaster vidiya is not a hoax as you can see how passionate many singhs are here, Plus your not really going to believe that Guru Sahib would take a punch, he would surely move out of the way, and instruct his khalsa to do the same. wouldnt u agree? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Singh47 Posted August 24, 2004 Report Share Posted August 24, 2004 Mitra your alright. Anyway everyone is misunderstanding what I really meant to say. When I called SV hoax, I meant that I do not believe it is the original Sikh martial arts in it’s entirety as it was during the times of Guru Gobind Singh Jee. Neither is present day Gatka. But both are useful in battle. Contrary to what some say, Gatka can protect and fend off aggressors. There are stories of some Gatka practitioners who fended off hundreds of armed men during the 84 riots after Ms Gandhi’s death. But I have been told by some people that the current Sikh martial arts be it Gatka or SV is only 10% of what the original Sikh martial arts was during the Puraatan times. But I have also learnt that the power of 96 crore Shaheed Singhs also helped and aided puraatan Singhs. Is it any wonder how the puraatan Singhs whom I consider to be Brahmgianis can defeat the powerful ferocious Pathans who were a source of terror for the Indians for hundreds of years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Narsingha Posted August 24, 2004 Author Report Share Posted August 24, 2004 Mitra your alright. Anyway everyone is misunderstanding what I really meant to say. When I called SV hoax, I meant that I do not believe it is the original Sikh martial arts in it’s entirety as it was during the times of Guru Gobind Singh Jee. Neither is present day Gatka. But both are useful in battle. Contrary to what some say, Gatka can protect and fend off aggressors. There are stories of some Gatka practitioners who fended off hundreds of armed men during the 84 riots after Ms Gandhi’s death. But I have been told by some people that the current Sikh martial arts be it Gatka or SV is only 10% of what the original Sikh martial arts was during the Puraatan times. But I have also learnt that the power of 96 crore Shaheed Singhs also helped and aided puraatan Singhs. Is it any wonder how the puraatan Singhs whom I consider to be Brahmgianis can defeat the powerful ferocious Pathans who were a source of terror for the Indians for hundreds of years. What exactly do you mean by "96 Crore Shaheed Singhs" and "Purataan Sikhs". What do you consider as being "puraatan"? pre-19th century? pre-18th century? ..btw, it may be worth reading what you wrote earlier with regards to Shastar Vidiya. Sounds like you're contradicting yourself now in an attempt to make ammends. I would advise you to actually see Shastar Vidiya for yourself before making pathetic comments. If you cant make it to the UK, or you cant visit Nihang Niddar Singh when he makes visits to the USA, then its probably wise not to prove to everyone that you're a hollow vessel. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Singh47 Posted August 24, 2004 Report Share Posted August 24, 2004 Narsingha, your one to talk, who is the butt of all jokes on other forums (especially the Sikh-history.com forum!). Anyway, the reason I may have sounded a little more compassionate is because out of all of you SV practitioners, Mugarmach Singh sounds the most sensible person, who has earned my respect, and my previous message was directed towards him not you or anyone else. But since you’re also in on this, here goes… What I meant by “puraatan Singhs†are the puraatan Singhs of Sri Guru Gobind Singh Jee’s period down to the misl period i.e. MY ancestors and forefathers. What I meant by “96 crore Shaheed Singhs†are the spirits of 96 crore Singhs who have laid down their lives for the protection of Dharm. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mugermach Singh Posted August 24, 2004 Report Share Posted August 24, 2004 Mitra your alright. Anyway everyone is misunderstanding what I really meant to say. When I called SV hoax, I meant that I do not believe it is the original Sikh martial arts in it’s entirety as it was during the times of Guru Gobind Singh Jee. Things are lost down in history, i agree with this, but what we have we should preserve it, and SV is one of the few things left, if we cant preserve this and other sikh heritage, then the future of the Sikhs is really grim. No Sikh here today can fight like our great Forefathers, we are living off their reputation, if somebody wanted to test us today, most sikhs would cry and get beaten up and others would die, niether are good after this for the ones that cried demolised our reputation and those that die have no voice. As for gyani's, they too live off the reputation of our forefathers, very few read bani's and take the time to understand them. Dont use them as our role models. But both are useful in battle as you have not seen SV in real life, i ask you to belive me when i say Gatka is not battle worthy. There are stories of some Gatka practitioners who fended off hundreds of armed men during the 84 riots after Ms Gandhi’s death. I have nothing constructive to say about this. So i remain quite on this... But I have been told by some people that the current Sikh martial arts be it Gatka or SV is only 10% of what the original Sikh martial arts was during the Puraatan times. 1%, 10% or 100%, we need to preserve it. But I have also learnt that the power of 96 crore Shaheed Singhs also helped and aided puraatan Singhs. Is it any wonder how the puraatan Singhs whom I consider to be Brahmgianis can defeat the powerful ferocious Pathans who were a source of terror for the Indians for hundreds of years. I dont want to cause offence (although i have called u a dumbass in previous posts amongst other stuff), BUT!!!... the singh's didnt kick the pathans asses sitting their doing waheguru jap, and waiting for shaheed singhs to help them, they trained hard, and no1 here shows that kind of commitment no more. We are all living off the names of our forefathers. It time to WAKE UP people, do you own bloody hard work. Learn something at least. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Narsingha Posted August 24, 2004 Author Report Share Posted August 24, 2004 But since you’re also in on this, here goes… What I meant by “puraatan Singhs†are the puraatan Singhs of Sri Guru Gobind Singh Jee’s period down to the misl period i.e. MY ancestors and forefathers. What I meant by “96 crore Shaheed Singhs†are the spirits of 96 crore Singhs who have laid down their lives for the protection of Dharm. Looks like Mugz has a fan. Seeing that you are keen on using this term, perhaps Singh47 could explain what '96 Crore' actually refers to? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jsb Posted August 24, 2004 Report Share Posted August 24, 2004 i may be wrong, but doesn't it refer to the prophecy by Guru Gobiond Singh Ji of having 960 million iskhs worldwide or something like that? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Singh47 Posted August 24, 2004 Report Share Posted August 24, 2004 Seeing that you are keen on using this term, perhaps Singh47 could explain what '96 Crore' actually refers to? re-read my previous post and you will get your answer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Narsingha Posted August 24, 2004 Author Report Share Posted August 24, 2004 Singh 47, your previous posts do not explain what the term '96 Crore' means. You have utilised this term while refering to the sikhs of old, but not explained what this term actually means. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Singh47 Posted August 24, 2004 Report Share Posted August 24, 2004 Well I hope you know what “96†means? In Punjabi it is called “Chianway†or even “Shianway†depending on what area you come from. “Crore†means 10 million. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Narsingha Posted August 24, 2004 Author Report Share Posted August 24, 2004 So, what does 960 000 000 refer to? I figure if we take this slowly that eventually we may get the explanation from you... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drawrof Posted August 24, 2004 Report Share Posted August 24, 2004 I'm gonna take a stab at this one, 96,000,000- is the number of clouds which make up the "megh mala" in the sky. you see this referenced in the aarta by baba sri chand.... "shianvey kror jaakay charan pakharay|| bhaar atarah ja kee puhap kee maala||" (this is the first line of the 3rd padh of aarta). now, according to what I have learnt from nihangs both in india and abroad, this number is a reference to the number of khalsa singhs who will be wearing neela baana, tyar bar tyar, when the khalsa raj starts....(reference sau sakhi as well...If anyone is interested, I'll find you the reference ). now, I will only speak from what I have heard. When I find it, I will give the reference, but I have been told that in surya pratap granth, it is said that arrows came falling from the sky at chamkaur sahib and that it was the shaheed singhs who actually came to the rescue of the khalsa.... let me make myself clear, I am not quoting here as I am stating what someone had once told me orally. so, if I put the logic together.... I would say (and these are my thoughts) that when the khalsa raaj starts...you will see everything in ordinance to the guru...everything under the blue sky... (this will be the dawn of satyug) and.... as we all know, khalsa does not only mean "pure" but it also means "in direct order to or in direct ordinance to" in this case..it would be guru...god.... hence, WAHEGURU JI KA KHALSA, WAHEGURU JI KI FATEH Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Narsingha Posted August 25, 2004 Author Report Share Posted August 25, 2004 I'm gonna take a stab at this one, 96,000,000- is the number of clouds which make up the "megh mala" in the sky. you see this referenced in the aarta by baba sri chand.... "shianvey kror jaakay charan pakharay|| bhaar atarah ja kee puhap kee maala||" (this is the first line of the 3rd padh of aarta). ..number of clouds?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drawrof Posted August 25, 2004 Report Share Posted August 25, 2004 yes narsingha, shianve cror refers to the number of clouds in the sky. it is considered to be megh maala. If you would like, I can find more info....just ask what you need Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jsb Posted August 25, 2004 Report Share Posted August 25, 2004 hehe.. i can tell i'm gonna hafta write my dictionary entry again... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Narsingha Posted August 25, 2004 Author Report Share Posted August 25, 2004 drawoff, where exactly did you get this information from? Perhaps you could list your source(s) regarding the definiton of "96 Crore". What have clouds got to do with Shaheed Singhs? Just curious.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drawrof Posted August 25, 2004 Report Share Posted August 25, 2004 narsingha, I looked at 2 seperate explanations of aarta because I saw the term shianve crore... like most other aspects of the terminology used by guru sahib for the khalsa (kanga, karra, kachera...roots of the three), there was an ancient tradition or a dire need of the time. so I saw the term coined in an earlier work (baba sri chand's aarta), and I figured that the number of shaheed singhs would/could refer to an inifinitely large number that was already in vogue....as many things are metamorphical. the source is baba sri chand te udasi mat. writer doctor mohinder kaur.p.61 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Narsingha Posted August 25, 2004 Author Report Share Posted August 25, 2004 http://www.shastarvidiya.org/downloads/mai/mai.html Krishna Godhania and Shastar Vidiya Gurdev Nihang Niddar Singh Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Singh47 Posted August 26, 2004 Report Share Posted August 26, 2004 Narsingha wrote: “So, what does 960 000 000 refer to? I figure if we take this slowly that eventually we may get the explanation from you...†I wrote in one of my previous posts: “What I meant by “96 crore Shaheed Singhs†are the spirits of 96 crore Singhs who have laid down their lives for the protection of Dharm†Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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