Beast Posted January 20, 2005 Report Share Posted January 20, 2005 but dont we all cheat to an extent? I don't think I could. You'd have to ask me when I'm 80ish if I've ever cheated on my wife, but knowing my personality, I could never "cheat" on her with another woman (or anything else, lol). 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sikh_fauge Posted January 20, 2005 Report Share Posted January 20, 2005 Im not justifying people sleeping around..and im not saying i would either. However, i think we all cheat to an extent..whether its mental or physical. What im getting at, its wrong to say physical cheatings wrong, when we all cheat to an extent! 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sikh_fauge Posted January 20, 2005 Report Share Posted January 20, 2005 and me thinks ur gna get the 1g before me 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beast Posted January 20, 2005 Report Share Posted January 20, 2005 and me thinks ur gna get the 1g before me The only way I'd probably "cheat" then is to look at another woman and think hhhmmmmmmm (homer simpson style). If thats considered to be cheating then tough! 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sukhi Posted January 20, 2005 Report Share Posted January 20, 2005 s_f, u just destroyed my peace of mind. i thought we were done with this topic. and then you come along. tch! i'm jus kiddin with ya... so what's your definition of cheating s_f? tha's the relevant question in this new debate. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sikh_fauge Posted January 20, 2005 Report Share Posted January 20, 2005 Cheating as in hanky panky with someone else (in your mind.) A naughty magazine, x rated videos, or a bhangra video are all examples where one may get "aroused". Im not saying these thoughts are "wrong" but if a person, for e.g. me, is having these thoughts, then im not really in a position to talk about people being unfaithful physically..or maybe im chatting breeze 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beast Posted January 20, 2005 Report Share Posted January 20, 2005 Cheating as in hanky panky with someone else (in your mind.) A naughty magazine, x rated videos, or a bhangra video are all examples where one may get "aroused". Im not saying these thoughts are "wrong" but if a person, for e.g. me, is having these thoughts, then im not really in a position to talk about people being unfaithful physically..or maybe im chatting breeze :shock: I hope for the sanity of every man alive you are chatting breeze! 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sukhi Posted January 20, 2005 Report Share Posted January 20, 2005 me too. i mean for all of humanity... i was under the impression that cheating meant acting on your thoughts. ie you've got a wife and you have fantasies about her best friend. well, tha's your preroragative to have those fantasies. but if you act upon those thoughts and desires, i consider it cheating. do you see the difference? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pheena Posted January 20, 2005 Report Share Posted January 20, 2005 Sikh_Fauge has made an excellent point. That evne Thinking 'could' be a form of Cheating. Now the questin is who are you cheating, obviously not your partner because it is still in your mind, you are only "thinking" at the opposite sex with the thought of possesing or trying to fantasize having a sexual relation with them. And as far as your partner is concerned she has no idea what you are thinking. (unless she is a psychic then you are SOL) Our Mind is a very Private thing, what we think cannot be known by other, if you were able to read the mind of another, and read that my husband/wife thinks highly of the neighbours wife, would you not be upset, surely he had not done anything with the neighbour. But the thougt is there and everything begins with thought. Thinking of doing something hurtfull you have already polluted the mind with some wrong doing, Now all that is needed is to actually act out on the thought. And like I said, the root of any Right/Wrong Doing begins with Thought. I see it with this Analogy. Cheating with a thought is like taking out a Knife and setting it next to the Cake, without actually cutting it. You thought about it, but you didn't cut it (yet), or your conciousness stopped you or some circumstance prevented you from doing it. So is the Action a Sin or the Thought? Every Action has a Thought behind it, Thought Initiates the Action of the body. Who is the Sinner, the body or the Mind???? Sure one coudl say but who am I harming by thinking about donig something, I am not actually going to go do it. Sure it has caused no one harm, but the initial step has already been taken by the thought. We can also consider this in the Karmic Law that is it only our Actions physically that are the cause of our good/bad fortunes or even our thougths? Do not assume a Thought is only a Thought, It is a very Power thing, which can Influence other more than we tend to think...there have been many casses and the possibility of actually attaining this Sidhi of moving matter/objects with the mere power of thought. But it is indeed something worth Contemplating over. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
double_edge Posted January 21, 2005 Report Share Posted January 21, 2005 I stayed well out of this thread cos so many people were already saying what i thought of the subject (ie ur partner is to be respected, the sanctity of marriage is to be preserved).. But now things have taken an interesting twist... while we all agree that it would not be ok to actually cheat on ones spouse, people are alot less willing to commit to the idea that even thinking about it would be wrong (im not saying anything either way.. just playing Devils Advocate as usual!). are we essentially going with the "Out of sight, out of mind" approach? ur partner is being loyal.. but is fantasizing about, to use Sukhis suggested example, one of your friends as harmless as we'd like to think?. Im quite sure we'd be hurt if our better half was to be caught looking hungrily at one of our friends (or anyone else for that matter).. or to accidentally whisper someone elses name? As Pheena said, they'd still be in the realm of thought, not action, as they havent actually commited adultery.. they're only thinking.. and maybe looking and oops! accidentally saying the wrong name during one of those tender moments? after all, im sure none of us would accept "whats in a name?" as an excuse lol. My question is, if it would be wrong (im assuming u'll agree) to hurt our partners that way, what makes it ok for us to be thinking along those lines? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pheena Posted January 21, 2005 Report Share Posted January 21, 2005 I agree with Double_edge. We can obviously have great Restraint to control our desire and leave them in the Realm of Thought. We can prevent our thought from manifesting themselves into Action. But If we are not acting out the desire to cheat, but thoughts of doing so remain, wouldn't it be correct to assume that we are still not liberated from this desire. As far as if that is still some type of cheating remains to be seen. Most everyone have great Restraint upon themselves, for example, when they are Angry, they tend to hold temselves back. But holding themselves back does not mean they are liberated from Anger. As long as the desire remain in the mind, the possibility of it jumping from thought to action remain. We can hold our selves back day after day, Liberation from any type of desire to do thing is only true when it is removed from our mind. The only difference is that our actions are the Visible and are thoughts are not. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Khalsa Fauj Posted January 21, 2005 Report Share Posted January 21, 2005 That is why we don't listen to bhaga, watch those sexually explicit videos, magazines, etc. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Khalsa Fauj Posted January 21, 2005 Report Share Posted January 21, 2005 Khalsa soo-aye Jo Pardarisht Tiaagai, Khalsa sooo-aye jo pur naaree tay bhaagai. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sukhi Posted January 22, 2005 Report Share Posted January 22, 2005 Pheena, as usual, i agree with what you say. but i think that what you're describing is a stage that one must progress towards. like you said in your second post, it's about liberation from desire. and that's something that can only happen with great effort and great Mercy. but there must be some merit in not acting upon our desires, on not falling into the trap of lust and surrendering over to it. double edge, it certainly would be hurtful to know that your partner has fantasies about someone else, but i think it's something we all deal with. such is the nature of the mind. and i think a little tolerance, credit and acceptance is in order if those fantasies are never enacted in reality. but if your partner is starting to call you by another's name, then yeah, it's time to worry. why? because those thoughts and feelings have started to take over instead of being fleeting ideas. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pheena Posted January 22, 2005 Report Share Posted January 22, 2005 Pheena, as usual, i agree with what you say. but i think that what you're describing is a stage that one must progress towards. like you said in your second post, it's about liberation from desire. and that's something that can only happen with great effort and great Mercy. but there must be some merit in not acting upon our desires, on not falling into the trap of lust and surrendering over to it. Good point Sukhi, there must be a merit. One thing to realize is that we always say we Commit a Sin. With that is thinking about doing it actually Comitting it?? Are we cheating ourselves by thinking about it, are we cheating our soul? Is there a clause in the law of karma about inflicting suffering upon ourselves by surrendering to our desires? Allot of questions to be answered. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pheena Posted January 22, 2005 Report Share Posted January 22, 2005 That is why we don't listen to bhaga, watch those sexually explicit videos, magazines, etc. A quesion for you veer, Why do you not Listen to Bhangra?? Is it because you hate it? Despise it? Have you created a sense of animosity against it?? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jsb Posted January 22, 2005 Report Share Posted January 22, 2005 i know the question wasn't for me.. but i stopped listening to it cuz i didn't feel like it was really doing me any good..that's a personal thing though...some people find it very stress relieving and that's good for them, but for ME, and i can only speak for myself, i felt more relieved having a sant niranjan singh simran track on or something... 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sukhi Posted January 22, 2005 Report Share Posted January 22, 2005 Good point Sukhi, there must be a merit. One thing to realize is that we always say we Commit a Sin. With that is thinking about doing it actually Comitting it?? Are we cheating ourselves by thinking about it, are we cheating our soul? Is there a clause in the law of karma about inflicting suffering upon ourselves by surrendering to our desires? Allot of questions to be answered. that was truly said Pheena. i don't have concrete answers for the questions you ask. nor do i think concrete answers exist for them. but as far as i can tell, it's a personal thing. but based on your view, it seems that every thought that doesn't do anything for our spiritual growth is a sin. and that may be. but don't you think that we were meant to experience, enjoy and challenge ourselves to become better in this world that God has put us on? personally speaking, i believe every experience, good or bad, and every thought good or bad, leads us closer to our Final Goal simply because we learn something from it. we gain some knowledge from it that should help us on our path. but then again, i may be wrong. either way, it's an interesting topic. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pheena Posted January 22, 2005 Report Share Posted January 22, 2005 i don't think that every thought that doesn't make us grow spiritually is a sin. We make Worldy decision every day which do nothing for us spiritually, but are necessar to make inorder for us to live inthis world. i whole heartdly agree that every experience whether good or bad leads us close to our goal and It teachs us great wisdom. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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