Guest SAdmin Posted March 5, 2005 Report Share Posted March 5, 2005 Feel feel to discuss your thoughts but keep respect for each other and that's all we ask our members to give us in return. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hardeep_singh Posted March 5, 2005 Report Share Posted March 5, 2005 rite before i start this, i'm just going to say i am not trying to make anyone feel bad or portray me as being a better sikh then another as that isn't my intentions or rite, so here goes. I have got to say i really find it difficult to understand why sikhs find it SO hard to keep there hair? why is this, is it because they are lazy, and can't be bothered to keep it clean and tie it everyday? or do you feel you won't be able to attracted the opposite sex because you have a paag and a dhari (this is what i think the reason is with many but don't admit it) if so the guy or girl aint worth your time, i myself was once a mona, before my brain switched on, and i can never see myself cutting my hair ever, i'd never be able to live with myself. if a person calls himself a sikh he associates himself to the sikh religion correct? so without going to deep into qoutes from the ggs(because i haven't read it) just look at the following things, why is kesh one of the things we must keep, why are gurus pictured always wearing paags and having dhari's, why dont you never see a sant with cut hair, looking back into the religion all the contributors to the religion sikhisum there all pictured wearing paags i doubt they all kepted it to keep themselves warm, i feel lots of sikhs ask FAR TOO many questions why do we have to do this why do we have to do that, i think, well i'm pretty certain that religion hasn't touched these people, maybe then they may feel they don't need to ask/debate/argue with certain things, and the only way it will is by attending the gurdwara fequently or atleast whenever you have time. I feel so many sikh's waste time asking/debating/arguing whether religion is made up etc, these people are wasting time. It may be hard but dont instantly always assume someone is having a go at you when they say keep your hair and dhari it's most likley because there trying to help you out and point you in the rite direction. if people disrespect another this is wrong as noone on this planet is perfect yep EVEN you lol, and is seen to be wrong in sikhi so nobbody should be doing this to anybody. anyway i've said my piece hope it helped somebody out there! Hardeep. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morpheous Posted March 5, 2005 Report Share Posted March 5, 2005 interesting points Hardeep. but the i think the thread is not looking at WHY we should keep our hair, its more to do with the definition of a sikh and whether a mona can be called a sikh. why are gurus pictured always wearing paags and having dhari's Yes, as "sikhs" we alos bow to Jaidev's bani and accept it as Guru. Have you seen his picture before ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sukhi Posted March 6, 2005 Report Share Posted March 6, 2005 Waheguru ji ka khalsa waheguru ji ki fateh Sukhi if u re-read my last few posts I think that will answer the 1st few Qs. Now I think I should point out I did NOT start a topic on who is a sikh and who is not, I only joined in a discussion between KHalsa Fauj and cant remember who else. U've asked me why i'm trying to point out what others lack instead of concentrating on myself, I assure u I have not neglected myself and as a member I am entitled to reply to a discussion just like you have now! If u were saying I lack sensitivity then maybe I should say I DID NOT POST ANYTHING TO OFFEND ANYONE. I posted a view, a view that it is wrong to cut ur hair, I did not say I'm a great Sikh and everyone else is not and follow me. I have not fogotten my roots of love, I'm sorry but next time I'll try to post with a lot of pyar. But just thinking, if I give my view on what I thinka sikh is, does that mean I can only love sikhs? Sukhi I don't know how much of that post was directed at me, but if it was all then I'm shocked, I only gave an opinon on sikhi and I said my definition has not been accepted by anyone (and I said that to make clear that I'm not saying I'm right but this is my opinion. I don't think anyone is inferior to anyone, and if that was directed at me then bhenji/bhaaji whoever u r , I'm at a loss for words now. In fact I think u will find that I may be trying to share my understanding with others and even u said in ur post that we should do that. Waheguru ji ka khalsa waheguru ji ki fateh the post wasn't directed specifically at you. you just happened to be the last person i was replying to. (ah ye poor lil brit or whatever y'are. you got the brunt of the Mahadevi's wrath! ) actually, the post was a reaction to the unbelievable amount of utter stupidity present on SA. it started in the "critique of sarbloh.info" and went into another thread on homosexuality in the buddha dal in the uk to this new thread on aguptkaur. and even before this, there was plenty of other crap going on. i never said that giving someone your opinion or sharing your understanding is wrong. but slandering others, being rude, needlessly provoking others, and being an arsehole in general aren't things that are going to lead to greater understanding. if i've offended you with my post, i humbly apologize for it. but the message wasn't directed specifically at you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hardeep_singh Posted March 6, 2005 Report Share Posted March 6, 2005 morpheous - i have said in my post that if you associate yourself as a sikh, which monaey do, which isn't wrong imo then as part of sikhisum you are ment to keep your hair therefore if monaey think cutting there hair is fine as a sikh, then they are wrong, but it is more constructive to show with examples why monaey are wrong to think this, rather then just say to them dont consider yourself a sikh. i don't think we should be thinking about whether manaey are considered sikh's but point monaey in the rite direction and as this is about monaey i've talked about things most sikhs have seen in order for them to try and think about keeping there hair and dhaari. you've quoted something i've said which you have replied back with a name of someone that is in the ggs and after seeing his picture which shows he doesn't have a paag and dhaari, but here is a link to show you just where you have gone wrong and just why he hasn't, he was a HINDU saint and NOT a sikh saint. http://www.sikhnet.com/sikhnet/discussion....86?OpenDocument Hardeep. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ghost Posted March 6, 2005 Report Share Posted March 6, 2005 the question posed by this thread requires contemplation and thought. after thinking much about what has been written, a thuk from baani spoke out to me: Jin Prem Kiyo Tin Hi Prabh Paayo Pure Love Leads to God Guru Gobind Singh Ji I thought more closely about what this meant and how it refered to the situation. Love, what is it? Love, is but just a word. As powerful as it may mean to many, it is a word that describes a connection. The media of this connection is divine signals, sent to/from the divine. Morpheous, here I disagree with you, I believe that inorder to have a more informed opinion, Hardeep_Singh has correctly delved into an area that this thread has missed. Apart from the biological importance, hair, acts as an ariel and are the receptors to the signals sent by the divine. They present a person with the ability to make a connection and expand their auora to effect not only their lives but the lives of people who come across them. If as a Sikh you are to progress through a spiritual journey, the need for hair is of importance. The sacrifices made by the Guru's, their families and followers are all self-testiment to this. The mysticism of Sikhi has to be believed: Seeing without eyes, hearing without ears, walking without feet, chanting His name without tongue and dying without living is accepting Gods will. (Guru Arjan Dev Ji) If you do not believe how can you see, hear, walk, etc? But the question of a mona being called a Sikh is to question the balance between form and formless. Is form required? By Rehat - Yes - but this is for an initiated Sikh. But that is not the end. Formless makes the balance and here form is not required for all. Waheguru is formless, a bit of Waheguru (as a I believe it) is in each and everyone of us. The formless connection possessd by individuals who are not Keshdarhi can be far greater than someone who is. That does not mean to say it is right for all. But who it is and isnt right for is for none of us to say. Only Guru can show us the way. A Sikh = Universal = Human (+ others) = Learner. Everyone is a Sikh. Whether Munn Sikh (follower of ego) or Gur Sikh (follower of Guru), everyone is a Sikh. By Universal, Sikhi is not an exclusive club, it is for everyone. Let us not turn our backs to anyone, exemplified by the Humanity shown by Bhai Ghanaya. I have been in the company of Monay who share the wealth of their energies far more than Keshdarhi Sikhs, both whilst in Naam simran, Nishkam Sewa and in general discussion and conversation, however they do indulge activities that maybe seem to be coming off the path (im still talkin bout the same ppl, not generalising) and this is where Rehat can be effective. If you live each day as if it is your last on this Earth, would you live it differently? - this is the perspective of one who follows the Rehat. I do not disrespect you if you cut your hair. I do not disrespect if you call yourself a Sikh or any other religion you please. If you wish to build a nation, you must first build foundations. It is about quality and not quantity. Everyone has the right to make a choice, though, with the responsibility of choice comes its consequence. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morpheous Posted March 6, 2005 Report Share Posted March 6, 2005 gone wrong and just why he hasn't, he was a HINDU saint and NOT a sikh saint. ok you win. i give up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hardeep_singh Posted March 6, 2005 Report Share Posted March 6, 2005 don't worry theres no shame in losing against me lol morpheous are you a mona? if so has anything you have read on this thread made you think about keeping your hair? Hardeep. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morpheous Posted March 6, 2005 Report Share Posted March 6, 2005 im not even "sikh", sorry. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Infernal Monk Posted March 7, 2005 Report Share Posted March 7, 2005 im not even "sikh", sorry. lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Khalsa Fauj Posted March 7, 2005 Report Share Posted March 7, 2005 Guys, I think a lesson from history is needed. Sacrifice of Bhai Taru Singh After Zakria Khan heard that Bhai Taru Singh provides hungry people with food, which included Sikhs who fought against people like Zakria Khan to get Sikhs their freedom. He ordered his forces to arrest Bhai Taru Singh. The Muslim forces arrested him and took him to Zakria Khan's court. Zakria Khan told him to accept Islam or face death. Bhai Taru Singh refused so the Governor Zakria Khan said that we would cut your hair since you don’t want to become a Muslim. The barber sharpened the scissors to cut Bhai Taru Singh Ji’s hair but the scissors did not cut his hair. Bhai Taru Singh kept on recitin Japji Sahib. The reason why the hair could not be cut was the Japji Sahib. www.sikhknowledge.tk| Guys never watch porn! Big sin! says: Then Zakria Khan told Bhai Taru Singh that you are leaving this planet because your skin on your skull will be ripped off since we cannot cut your hair. Bhai Taru Singh stated, “I am not dying alone, you are going ahead of me by getting beat up with shoes.†Then Zakria Khan’s urinating system shut down. Karamjit - 8pm Thursday Actual UFO Documentary......................................."Waheguru Ji Ka Khalsa Waheguru Ji Ke Fetay" says: and......... www.sikhknowledge.tk| Guys never watch porn! Big sin! says: He could not piss, he asked Bhai Subegh Singh who was a contractor at that time to go and ask the Khalsa Panth on how he could get rid of his urine. Khalsa Panth told Bhai Subegh Singh to tell the Shahi forces to take Bhai Taru Singh’s shoes and make him touch it with his head. Zakria Khan told his men to beat him with Bhai Taru Singh’s shoes. www.sikhknowledge.tk| Guys never watch porn! Big sin! says: It is said that while Zakria Khan was getting beat up with Bhai Taru Singh’s shoes, he urinated little by little, which gave him comfort. Zakria Khan told his men to beat him harder because of the comfort he was getting. Then on the 21st day since his beating in the head stated, he died due to the soreness in his head. www.sikhknowledge.tk| Guys never watch porn! Big sin! says: When Bhai Taru Singh heard about that, he also passed away because he had made a prophecy in which he said to take Zakria Khan ahead of him into God’s court ahead of him with his shoes. This all happened because Bhai Taru Singh did not want his hair to be cut by anyone. He had accepted death but not cutting his hair unlike today’s morally ill so-called Sikhs who go to the barber to get their head cut, I mean haircut. Say out loud Satnam Sri Waheguru to show respect for Bhai Taru Singh Ji. Keep your hair if you want to be called Sikh. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tableji Posted March 7, 2005 Report Share Posted March 7, 2005 ghost, if u are not tryin to be guru da sikh, then everything else is pointless Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ghost Posted March 7, 2005 Report Share Posted March 7, 2005 tableji, i see ur perspective, however, in reality not everyone tries to be "guru da sikh" hence they are munn sikh... im not trying to prove a point, as there is no point to prove. each to their own. smile, be happy & inspire. PS. Sukhi, LOL @ casper! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tableji Posted March 7, 2005 Report Share Posted March 7, 2005 yeah i agree with , each to their own definantly... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doaba Posted March 7, 2005 Report Share Posted March 7, 2005 at last more ppl are saying good things. took u guys some time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tableji Posted March 7, 2005 Report Share Posted March 7, 2005 at last more ppl are saying good things. took u guys some time. i didnt say its ok, i jus said, do whateva u want, its not up 2 me to tell u what to do and what not to do... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doaba Posted March 7, 2005 Report Share Posted March 7, 2005 exactly and i c ur comment more respectful than what others say. at least ur not trying to force religion down a next manz throat. but then again am i speaking to soon. best way i av seen to bring ppl towards guru nanak dev ji is with love and respect and giving ppl freedom for there own opinions. sooner or later if guru nanak dev ji wants them to mehta teakh him then he will. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sukhi Posted March 7, 2005 Report Share Posted March 7, 2005 yay for doaba (for actually understanding the point)! and one last thing: you guys can say whatever you want about sacrifices and the value of keeping your hair and following the rehat and how much the rehat is precious to you and try and force someone to see the truth in your words. but it won't work. it won't work until the person actually wants to do all that of their own accord. and until it means something to them personally, they'll never truly accept it. so breathe in, breathe out, relax and be happy in the knowledge that the most you can do is say "hey, this here be's the rehat. either you follow it or you dun," and let it go. there's no point in you trying to define/label another person. and whether or not people who cut their hair are sikh or not i think is ultimately up to Guru Sahib. so chilll with the "i'm a sikh!" and "no you're not!" business. whatcha gotta get all uptight for anyways? the truth is gonna be the truth is gonna be the truth no matter what anyone says. as for what the truth really is, no one can say for sure cept Guru Sahib. so let's just leave it at that... up to him/her/it/whatever... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SAadmin Posted March 8, 2005 Report Share Posted March 8, 2005 Please stick to the topic guys. All the off topics will be deleted without any notice so post it in our own risk. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hardeep_singh Posted March 9, 2005 Report Share Posted March 9, 2005 yay for doaba (for actually understanding the point)! and one last thing: you guys can say whatever you want about sacrifices and the value of keeping your hair and following the rehat and how much the rehat is precious to you and try and force someone to see the truth in your words. but it won't work. in that case were ALL (non monaey sikhs) wasting our time, on this forum and others is what your saying here, i disagree with you here as you do not know what may cause that little bit of spark in a sikhs head to become a gursikh which is where we all should be heading, anything in between is a waste. this is what was one of the points i made in my first post on this thread for this exact reason above, people taking ours advice, opinions, reasons as someone forcing religous issues upon them, i certainly feel this is not the case here and defo not in my own posts. Hardeep. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beast Posted March 9, 2005 Report Share Posted March 9, 2005 you do not know what may cause that little bit of spark in a sikhs head to become a gursikh which is where we all should be heading sorry, I'm confused. I thought this thread was about whether the term Sikh should encompass those that cut their hair? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tableji Posted March 9, 2005 Report Share Posted March 9, 2005 in that case were ALL (non monaey sikhs) wasting our time, on this forum and others is what your saying here, i disagree with you here as you do not know what may cause that little bit of spark in a sikhs head to become a gursikh which is where we all should be heading, anything in between is a waste. this is what was one of the points i made in my first post on this thread for this exact reason above, people taking ours advice, opinions, reasons as someone forcing religous issues upon them, i certainly feel this is not the case here and defo not in my own posts. Hardeep. u need to read her post again...not jus parts of it... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tableji Posted March 9, 2005 Report Share Posted March 9, 2005 if guru gobind singh ji says that without shastar and kesh, you are a donkey and u wont have darshan...does that mean that a sikh(without kesh) is equal to a donkey...and wud guruji say... jo desai gursikhra tis niv niv lago paiy jeoo...to a sikh who is a donkey?? what sukhi says about forcing..i agree...i also agree that there is no place for pakhand...but id rather keep kesh, be a pakhandi, figure out that im a pakhandi..and try and change...infact how many of us can say that we dont do some sort of pakhand or make mistakes at any time in our lives eventho we dont mean to... hence abhul hai andhar sabh ko abhul guru kartar... bear in mind this tukh aint no excuse for u to do anything u want....but for those who try...and make mistakes....each person has an individual path, and all paths have obstacles...guruji helps us see the pitfalls and avoid them... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hardeep_singh Posted March 9, 2005 Report Share Posted March 9, 2005 beast, tableji - sukhi has made good points hence why i have not quoted them bits, shes the one who has stated that some people have forced there opinions on this topic and i'm mearly stating this is not the case she and others shouldn't always see things that way, so who has veared off topic here :? :wink:....... now i dont think i have strayed off this thread. Hardeep. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beast Posted March 9, 2005 Report Share Posted March 9, 2005 I was just confused at the bit where a person who keeps hair seems to be considered a Gursikh automatically. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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