SIKHISM and meat

[Khalsa'z_Pyari]

My older brother wanted me to ask about what Guru Granth Sahib Ji speaks on

eating meat, beef in particular?

My mom is a Amrit Dhari, and twin brother and me are vegetarians, and my olda bro is tryin 2 quit eating meat. he doesnt eat beef but he just wanted 2 kno what does

Guru Granth Sahib Ji say about

beef in particular?

plz help thank u :wink:

[vijaydeep Singh]

Gurfateh

There is one verse about that

bRhmx kYlI Gwqu kMkw AxcwrI kw Dwnu ]

iPtk iPtkw koVu bdIAw sdw sdw ABmwnu ]

“The following are all major sins:

a) Killing a Brahmgyani,

Killing a black cow

c) Killing or selling your daughter,

d) Eating from a person who has no moral discipline. Anyone who commits any of these has committed thousands of sins and this egotistical individual will be reprimanded thousands of times."

(SGGSJ Ang 1413)

but that may not be understop as Anti Beef by new age scholars.

Das eats beef as in Dasham Granth Lord Krishna is told to have hunted cows and Lav Kush had Go Medh Yagna.

[artistformalyknownasodhi]

i would use the search function this has been discussed many a time.

[Khalsa'z_Pyari]

i would use the search function this has been discussed many a time.

sorry

[Khalsa'z_Pyari]

Gurfateh

There is one verse about that

bRhmx kYlI Gwqu kMkw AxcwrI kw Dwnu ]

iPtk iPtkw koVu bdIAw sdw sdw ABmwnu ]

“The following are all major sins:

a) Killing a Brahmgyani,

Killing a black cow

c) Killing or selling your daughter,

d) Eating from a person who has no moral discipline. Anyone who commits any of these has committed thousands of sins and this egotistical individual will be reprimanded thousands of times."

(SGGSJ Ang 1413)

but that may not be understop as Anti Beef by new age scholars.

Das eats beef as in Dasham Granth Lord Krishna is told to have hunted cows and Lav Kush had Go Medh Yagna.

thank u :wink: much appreciated :wink:

[Guest Javanmard]

Abstaining from both beef and pork is the safest solution. You can never go wrong like that.

[kdsingh80]

if a sikh is a non vegetarian then there is nothing wrong in eating beef or pork.we don't beleive that any animal is special or dirty.god has created

all animals hence they are all equal.

[artistformalyknownasodhi]

yeh but pork gives u worms, and cows give u that mad disease thingy ma bob

[Guest Javanmard]

several rahitnamas forbid both pork and beef. kdsingh80's argument is way too simplistic.

[Beast]

I thought Khalsa of old would make any Muslim converts eat raw pork to prove that the conversion was genuine?

[Khalsa'z_Pyari]

Gurfateh

There is one verse about that

bRhmx kYlI Gwqu kMkw AxcwrI kw Dwnu ]

iPtk iPtkw koVu bdIAw sdw sdw ABmwnu ]

“The following are all major sins:

a) Killing a Brahmgyani,

Killing a black cow

c) Killing or selling your daughter,

d) Eating from a person who has no moral discipline. Anyone who commits any of these has committed thousands of sins and this egotistical individual will be reprimanded thousands of times."

(SGGSJ Ang 1413)

but that may not be understop as Anti Beef by new age scholars.

Das eats beef as in Dasham Granth Lord Krishna is told to have hunted cows and Lav Kush had Go Medh Yagna.

you know what i gave this to my brother, do you know what he said? he said "Well, it doesnt say not to eat beef? It says dont kill black cows"???

OH MY GOD seriously, he is really...well he's a older brother... lol :wink:

[Khalsa'z_Pyari]

yeh but pork gives u worms, and cows give u that mad disease thingy ma bob

ewww...thats very true though.. :!: :!:

[Guest Javanmard]

As a matter of fact eating female animals is strictly forbidden as only male animals are allowed for jhatka. Eating buffalos is totally ok and there is evidence that this has been done in the Khalsa Panth (see Prachin Panth Prakash). Wildboar is allowed as well.There is no account of jhatka being performed on cows or pigs. But I have to insist that as a precautionary measure domestic pig and beef are to be avoided. As the tisra panth (third way) we keep a neutrality vis-à-vis Islam and Indian religious traditions that is why it is best to abstain from those two types of meat.

[kdsingh80]

several rahitnamas forbid both pork and beef. kdsingh80's argument is way too simplistic.

bhai nandlal tankhanama states that khalsa should slay muslim,bhai chaupa singh rehatnama says that khalsa should not trust women,it also say that the service of brahmin sikh is twicw the service of other caste sikhs.if we start following these rehatnama,s then we will end nowhere.

[kdsingh80]

As a matter of fact eating female animals is strictly forbidden as only male animals are allowed for jhatka. Eating buffalos is totally ok and there is evidence that this has been done in the Khalsa Panth (see Prachin Panth Prakash). Wildboar is allowed as well.There is no account of jhatka being performed on cows or pigs. But I have to insist that as a precautionary measure domestic pig and beef are to be avoided. As the tisra panth (third way) we keep a neutrality vis-à-vis Islam and Indian religious traditions that is why it is best to abstain from those two types of meat.

if muslims and hindus will stop smoking tobacco then only sikhs should not

eat beef and pork.

[kdsingh80]

you know what i gave this to my brother, do you know what he said? he said "Well, it doesnt say not to eat beef? It says dont kill black cows"???

OH MY GOD seriously, he is really...well he's a older brother... lol :wink:

the verse written on ang 1413 is the following

bRhmx kYlI Gwqu kMkw AxcwrI kw Dwnu ] (1413-4, slok vwrW qy vDIk, mÚ 3)

barahman kailee ghaat kanjkaa anchaaree kaa Dhaan.

If a Brahmin kills a cow or a female infant, and accepts the offerings of an evil person,

iPtk iPtkw koVu bdIAw sdw sdw AiBmwnu ] (1413-5, slok vwrW qy vDIk, mÚ 3)

fitak fitkaa korh badee-aa sadaa sadaa abhimaan.

he is cursed with the leprosy of curses and criticism; he is forever and ever filled with egotistical pride.

pwih eyqy jwih vIsir nwnkw ieku nwmu ] (1413-5, slok vwrW qy vDIk, mÚ 3)

paahi aytay jaahi veesar naankaa ik naam.

One who forgets the Naam, O Nanak, is covered by countless sins

-- -----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

it does not say not to kill black cows or don't eat beef.i read the translation

of the above shabad of pro sahib singh and it says that according to this

verse the person who forgets naam is earning the above sins.

[kelari]

According to a nihang, they say that in Shamsher Pitha's Bani aka Dasam Bani, Dasam Paatshah forbids the meat of a cow to be eaten. Cow's bless us with milk, why would we kill them when they give us such a beutiful nutritious substance.

Pigs provide nothing. Eating pork is all good. Even according to Kshatri maryada beef is forbidden but pork is not.

Hope I didnt offend anyone.

bhul chuk muaaf

gurfateh

[SAadmin]

I thought Khalsa of old would make any Muslim converts eat raw pork to prove that the conversion was genuine?

May be NOT TRUE KHALSA OF SRI GURU GOBIND SINGH JI BUT SINGHS IN THE DAL.

History should be read with no bias i agree, however should be read with bibek buddhi.

No Khalsa of Sri Guru Gobind Singh, would dare to force others to eat meat, if that's a case there is no difference between khalsa and taliban?

[akaali]

Beast, i believe it was the instance where meat was given to Banday Khhhalsay when they wanted initiation back into the Tat Khhalsa Budha Dal.

Wats wrong with that?!

[kdsingh80]

According to a nihang, they say that in Shamsher Pitha's Bani aka Dasam Bani, Dasam Paatshah forbids the meat of a cow to be eaten. Cow's bless us with milk, why would we kill them when they give us such a beutiful nutritious substance.

Pigs provide nothing. Eating pork is all good. Even according to Kshatri maryada beef is forbidden but pork is not.

Hope I didnt offend anyone.

bhul chuk muaaf

gurfateh

in india 70 to 80% milk is provided by buffaloes but still buffaloes are sacrificed in temples.if you consider cow as mother then buffaloe is a mother too.and btw majority of milkmen throw their cows on roads after

they stop producing milk because they can't afford to feed them so throwing them on roads is o.k but killing them is not.

[Guest Javanmard]

Dear kelari according to all texts on kshatriya maryada pork is also forbidden but wildboar is allowed. The reason because wildboar is allowed is that :a. it is clean b. it destroys the fields used by farmers c. it takes a lot of skill and curage to kill one.

Pigs on the other hand eat dirt, eat their own faeces and are dirty. The only people in India who used to eat them were outcasts whoused to sacrifice pigs to tribal divinities of diseases such as smallpox. Not really the best of kshtriya habits...In fact the manusmriti puts pigs in the same category as dogs in terms of impurity.

There is a tendency among Niddarpanthis to think that pig (like) is allowed (like) because it's maryada (like) but I suggest they start leaning Sanskrit like anyone who claims to know about kshatriya dharma. You might be surprised what you find in those texts. For example: a kshatriya is only allowed to drink wine made out of grapes (yes India had that too) and is not at all allowed to drink alcohol made out of grains (desi, moonshine, beer, whisky etc...) which is considered low and disgusting.

Surprising indeed what you can find when you actually make the effort of knowing kshatriya dharma in its original language instead of hearing it from someone who heard it from someone else who knows the cousin of someone else who one day made up the story that eating pig and drinking whisky was ok. Everyone can come up with stories of "I talked to a Nihang Singh who said that..."

By the same token: getting drunk is NOT allowed for kastriyas. They can only drink moderate amounts of wine when eating a meal (like mediterraneans do), in a war context and when engaging in intercourse with their wife.

The other news from the kshatriya dharma texts is even more interesting: a kshatriya found eating beef or pig or drinking alcohol made out of grains is kicked out of the kshatriya dharma.

So before you guys make claims about kshatriya dharma do like everyone else does: learn Sanskrit and read the texts instead of claiming things that don't exist.

btw. If you were to try to prove me wrong by quoting the example of Siddhartha Gautama Budhha (a kshatriya by birth) eating pig I'll reply that:

Siddhartha by cutting his hair and becoming a bikshu (monk) had stopped being a kshatriya. It is precisely because he had stopped being a kshatriya that he could accept pig as an offering from a shudra lay follower.

[Bane]

I think we should put this discussion into context. The food we eat nowadays is not as pure or wholesome as it was in times past. Pigs are very dirty animals, but how many of us know in what conditions, the chicken we ate yesterday, was kept in. Our food is contaminated with pesticides. How many of us rear the animals we consume or grow the vegetables we eat. Textual based evidence is very good but reality is somewhat different, I don't believe in 100% reliance on texts, India also has a rich oral tradition which cannot be found in texts.

[Guest Javanmard]

Oh yes the old "oral tradition" argument from "I know a guy who studied South Asian studies who said that...". True oral traditions are very important and shouldn't be dismissed but prescriptions remain prescriptions. Example:

Maryada tells us to keep kesh (theory) yet most "Sikhs" don't (praxis), does that mean we should dismiss textual evidence?

The meat case in India has been debated for centuries and very well documented.

Regarding animals and in what condition they are kept here is a solution: buy your meat from the farmer. Here is even a better solution: some people keep gardens for alimentary purposes where they grow vegetables or keep chickens. Very often these gardens are located outside the city. My family used to do that, now we get our meat from the farmer or from friends who keep such gardens. The advantages are: the chikens are kept in acceptable conditions and they don't eat any chemical stuff.

[ringdingding]

Whether or not you choose to eat pork/beef/dog/rat or drink jeck denial bisky or phemous grass or just wine, my advice would be that you should never get "vehmee" about the route you take, as being free from 'vehm' is also an important Khalsa ideal.

- and perhaps a far less debatable/contraversial one than the others in this post.

[Bane]

Maryada tells us to keep kesh (theory) yet most "Sikhs" don't (praxis), does that mean we should dismiss textual evidence?

Sophistication and intelligence can sometimes be poles apart. Such a gross extreme example goes to show knowledge does not lead to a subtle understanding of the nuances that occur in the art of discussion.