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Gurmukhi script


Kam1825
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Right a quick discussion here i have wondered about the Gurmukhi script that we use daily. As far as i am concereed or aware in Punjab the script of hindi, urdu, shahmukhi were the written language whilst the oral language was punjabi.

I have heard many times that the common gurmukhi script that we use today was started by Sri Guru Nanak Dev Ji and was further disseminated to the Punjab area by Sri Guru Angad Dev Ji.

However on reading The Sri Guru Granth Sahib ji in the Gauree Raag one will come accross the Bawan Akhri by Bhagat Kabir Ji. What surprises me is that it is done in accordance to the Gurmukhi script that we use today. How can this be?

This is quite shocking which again leads me to believe that Sri Guru Nanak Dev Ji actually did meet Sri Bhagat Kabir on their travels. However again i do believe they met and spoke on religion, ideology and concept of the divine presence of the Lord. Listening to the katha of Sant Hari Singh Ji they state this is when Bhagat Kabir Ji accepted Guru Nanak Dev Ji as their second Gurdev after Bhagat Ramanand.

Now i understand when two divine souls get together they would speak about religion but would two great souls speak about their script?

I have been told by many Sants about a Sant Bhasha, a universal language between divine souls. I believe that Gurmukhi Bhasha is this univerasla language used by both Guru Nanak Dev Ji and Bhagat Kabir Ji and i think this may have been the way that Guru Nanak Dev Ji spoke to other divine souls that had access to this language on their travels.

Has anyone else got any opinions or theories on this issue, i know their are alot of scholars on this site who may have a view on this, i would like to hear them.

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i am quite shocked that i have had no replies to this thread, i expected someone to add something, i guess that all agree that either Bhagat Kabir Ji was a disciple of Guru Nanak Dev Ji in order to use the Gurmukhi letters or that a language between divine souls exists

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if that was the case they would not have used the gurmukhi script as it is very different to the hindi script. Why would Guru Arjan Dev Ji change the words of kabir as changing them into the Grumukhi script from Hindi would change meanings in what kabir initially intended his bni to have if you were to go through the meaning by viakaran

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i've read an article which argued that the gurmukhi script pre-dates the gurus. i can't find it at the moment... but if it were true, it would suggest that guru nanak dev ji & bhagat kabir ji may well never have met.

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Just quickly...

'Bhasha' means 'language' and is not a script. There is no such thing as far as I know as 'Sant Lipi' (Script of Saints). Though Sanskrit is known to be the bhasha of the devas and the aksharas (letters) of the script used to write Sanskrit and Hindi (Devanagari) are seen to be parts of the body of Shivji Maharaj.

Gurmukhi is a script. There are theories that it is a descendant of Sharda (a Kashmiri script) and Landa (for more info. go to http://www.ancientscripts.com/landa.html).

Can't comment on the meeting of guru Nanak Devji Maharaj and Kabirji.

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Guest Javanmard

Sorry Kam1825, you're shocked by the fact of not receiving any replies but honestly when someone like you who has been CLEARLY shown that Bhagat Kabir and Guru Nanak DID NOT LIVE at the same period goes on to still state that they still met despite of all the compelling serious academic evidence...what can I say?

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Javanmard why is it in the most of the Janamsakhi traditions it is shown that Bhagat Kabir Ji and Guru Nanak Dev Ji did meet, Kabirpanthis state that Bhagat Kabir Ji lived for 120 years which puts them in the same time frame as Guru Nanak Dev Ji thus is the reason i asked. This is a discussion page after all!

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Javanmard just for you i decided i should find something or some historical writing which says that Kabir Ji met Sri Guru nanak Dev Ji. If you have a look at www.ik13.com and the twarikh gur khalsa of the great nirmala scholar Giani Giani Singh you will see the section relation to guru Nanak Dev Ji. If you have a look at page 89 you will find Giani Gian Singh writes about the milaap of the two divine souls.

the link to the pdf document is

http://www.ik13.com/Twarikh%20Guru%20Khalsa/TWK_1.pdf

please let me know if Giani Gian Singh are wrong as i know you have of respect for the great nirmals scholar

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Waheguru Ji Ka Khalsa, Waheguru Ji Ke Fateh,

I don't have any idea whether Guru Nanak Dev Ji met Bhagat Kaber or not. But in Sant Baba Isher Singh Ji's deewan of Sant jee it is mentioned:

1. Bhagat Kabir lived for around 100 years. (I think Sant jee specified 100 years....I don't remember exact number of years).

2. Gurmukhi is GOD's language. Gurus could have written Sri Guru Granth Sahib jee in some other language. But they chose Gurmukhi.

The above 2 things were inside Sant Baba Isher Singh Ji's deewan.

das

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bhagat kabeer jee's jaethaa, dharam das, also wrote in his book that bhagat kabeer jee met when guru nanak dev jee went to kanshi. Guru Sahib asked for Bhagat Kabeer Jee and was told that the had gone somewhere, upon hearing this Guru Nanak Dev Jee started talking towards where bhagat Kabeer Jee was and bhagat kabeer jee started wlaking towards guru nanak dev jee and met in the middle somewhere.

source: gani takhur singh's katha

he also mentioned that bhagat kabeer jee was a poojari of sargun brahm before meeting guru nanak dev jee, but after the meeting them became a poojari of nirgun brahm

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