nishaan sahib seva

[guv]

what is the reason for using yoghurt & milk whilst doing nishaan sahib seva?

i've heard a couple of different explanations, but neither was referenced.

[Twelth Guru]

There is no references for lots of question in sikh religion. Cause lots of things were added while time pass. Any (sadly) most of there are directly connected to hindusim. So don't waste time in this things.

Consentrate more on sri guru granth sahib only. Not even on the so called sikh scholars. Such as Bai Gurdass etc..

[guv]

There is no references for lots of question in sikh religion. Cause lots of things were added while time pass. Any (sadly) most of there are directly connected to hindusim. So don't waste time in this things.

Consentrate more on sri guru granth sahib only. Not even on the so called sikh scholars. Such as Bai Gurdass etc..

so i'm guessing we shouldn't waste time on khande di pahul & external rehit... & for that matter jaap sahib, chaupai, tva prasaad svaye etc as none of these are in sri guru granth sahib. not even gonna go there on the "so called sikh scholars"!

use of yoghurt & milk for nishaan sahib seva is something i've seen all around the uk... & i've never seen any deviation from that. i don't know if the situation's different in india.

so where & why does this maryada come from?... & if u're going to say from hindus, at least give some kind of reference

[Amrikingh]

i think everything so far i've learnt in sikhi has a reason for it

somethings can't be explained but feel positive within me

[shaheediyan]

Twelth (I think you mean Twelfth) Guru,

Please can you provide the source which instructs the Panth that Vaheguru is the Gur-Mantar.

Thanks.

[Twelth Guru]

Guv.

Like Hindu's was Shiv Lingam with milk.

The was statu of krishan on janam ashtmee. there are lots like this.

Answere to you about jaap sahib etc is yes I don't follow it cause it is not in my guru's . No matter who wrote it. It is not guru bani. Some akali singhs or nihang insist to be concered as bani i don't agree with that. As peoples do lot of thing againt SGGS this is one of many.

[shaheediyan]

Dear Twel(f)th Guru Ji,

Please can you provide the source which instructs the Panth that Vaheguru is the Gur-Mantar.

It appears you haven't taken amrit, so do not know of the royal status, role and importance of Sri Dasam Granth Sahib Ji. It is not only some "Akaali/Nihang" Singhs who claim this is Bani but the entire panth. All sampradas and Jathaas prepare Khande da Amrit using Dasam Bani.

Here is the panthic Rehit Maryada:

Meditating on Nam (Divine Substance) and Scriptures

Article IV

2. He/she should recite the following scriptural compositions every day :

a. The Japu, the Jaapu and the Ten Sawayyas (Quartets) - beginning "Sarwag sudh"-- in the morning.

Vaheguru

[Twelth Guru]

To..shaheediyan..

it is twelth (Not Twelfth as u mentioned.) We cannot have twelfth guru. It was not engilish mistake.

I never said the vaheguru is Gur-Mantar.

But my only request to all of u and all the sampradas and jathaas is not bring out side writing equal to sggs.

Not the entire panth some ppl who are not ready to leave there fear behind.

Just sit and thing that are these so called bani's are equal to SGGS.

[Twelth Guru]

MY fear is that we have diveded us in only 538 year's. So many ppl's have gained knowledge for SGGS and than opened there shop. Why we don't understand. We are so much miss led and we are following with closed eye. We are so off the track that we have started the same thing which nanak told us to stop.

[guv]

Like Hindu's was Shiv Lingam with milk.

The was statu of krishan on janam ashtmee. there are lots like this.

u seem to look down on anything even remotely associated with hindus... hindus will do matha tek to idols & do parkarma around them. some do sukhasan & parkash to them.... & others with cover them with a rumal & do chor seva over them.

does this mean none of these should be done to sri guru granth sahib ji?

back to the original question... does anyone know the significance if any of using milk & yoghurt whilst doing nishaan sahib seva?

[Twelth Guru]

Ya matha tek should be only done for God. There is no siginificant of doing parkarma. Doing sukhasan and parkash is way of giving respect but one don't have to hold the legs of manjee and kiss the wood.

Thats what i mean.

Acid from yoghurt clear the rust and fat keep it lubricated. It is done in india also. In my younger age i have seen it. Washing with milk is just an emoational act cause we don't want to use water or with other liquid. If the nishaan sahib is made of stainless steeel or other non carbon metal it wont rust .

[shaheediyan]

Twelth Guru Ji:

"MY fear is that we have diveded us in only 538 year's"

Don't fear, the whole panth, in all it's colours and guises, believes in, and is thus united in, the belief that is Vaheguru Gur-mantar, thanks to the esteemed Bhai Gurdaas Ji.

Veer Guv Ji,

I can't find any history on the Nishaan Sahib seva, but I think Darbaar Sahib floor (inner sanctum) is cleaned with milk every morning as well, milk traditionally signifies purity in India, hence it is used to clean the most sacred items.

[guv]

Acid from yoghurt clear the rust and fat keep it lubricated. It is done in india also. In my younger age i have seen it. Washing with milk is just an emoational act cause we don't want to use water or with other liquid. If the nishaan sahib is made of stainless steeel or other non carbon metal it wont rust .

i haven't heard that explanation before... whenever i've seen nishaan sahib seva being done, they have used water after using the milk.

Veer Guv Ji,

I can't find any history on the Nishaan Sahib seva, but I think Darbaar Sahib floor (inner sanctum) is cleaned with milk every morning as well, milk traditionally signifies purity in India, hence it is used to clean the most sacred items.

i have heard that before.

the other explanation i've heard is that nishaan sahibs used to be made of wood before, & the yoghurt & milk help protect the wood somehow. not quite sure how that works. but the argument was that it's something that has continued to be used even though the material's changed.

any thoughts?

[Twelth Guru]

yes on wood it work cause wood have its own defence system. I don't want to go in depth about that . To keep that system life milk and yoghurt was readly available.

[unbreakable]

..

[Xylitol]

Bhai Gurdass Ji's Vaars state that Waheguru is Gurmantr. He was the first sikh scholar, from the time of the 5th Guru. The 5th Guru actually declared his writings to be Gurbani according to panthic tradition. They are useful in understanding sikhi better, I advise you to read them.

[Malwe Da Sher]

I think its symbolic.

Milk is more expensive than Water.

Sadly alot of symbolisim is used in Sikhi nowadays. Its more ritualistic and less practical.

Whats wrong with symbolism? I think pretty much any religous act that someone can form holds a degree of symbolism in it... bowing down, offering money, reading scripture (gurbani) etc

To understand why milk and yoghurt are used it is imporatnt to know of shastar pooja traditions. Shastar are supposed to be washed with kachee lassi, as noone can be bothered mixing the diee and milk together to make lassi they just cover it in diee then pour milk over it. Thats my understanding.

[shaheediyan]

Dear Xylitol Ji,

Thanks for stating the source of teh Gur-Mantar. The question was for Twelth Ji, to make him think and show him that Bhai Gurdaas Ji ws not just "some academic" but a maternal uncle of the 5th Master, a royal scribe and a Brahm Gyaani, who's Vaaran are accepted as truth by the path.

Thanks for your input non the less.

Vaheguru

[Twelth Guru]

when seva comes even poor ppl's wll give donations for milk

Sadly alot of symbolisim is used in Sikhi nowadays. Its more ritualistic and less practical. (unbreakable)

U said it right its easy to follow rituals then to become a practical

[das]

Waheguru Ji Ka Khalsa, Waheguru Ji Ke Fateh

Milk, Yogurt, and Ghee DOES hold important place in universe. Some of the things are:

1. Milk is used to clean the sacred places (irrespective of the material of which the place is made of).

e.g In Harimandar Sahib, Amritsar Gurdwara Sahib, Milk is used to wash the floor.

e.g Nishan Sahib is cleaned with Milk.

2. From Milk alone, 36 types of food could be prepared. GOD has given us 36 types of food.

3. New born baby is given mother's milk. Mothers are blessed with Milk from their breasts. Why GOD created Milk to come out of Mother's breast? HE could have created something which includes all the vitamins...

4. Milk, Yogurt, and Ghee are most widely used ingredents in any religious ceremony.

ਪਸੂ ਮਿਲਹਿ ਚੰਗਿਆਈਆ ਖੜੁ ਖਾਵਹਿ ਅੰਮ੍ਰਿਤੁ ਦੇਹਿ ॥

Pasoo mileh chang-aa-ee-aa kharh khaaveh amrit deh.

Even beasts have value, as they eat grass and give milk

(Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji - Page 489, Line 6)

Amrit khand dooDh maDh sanchas too ban chaatur ray.

The realms of nectar are irrigated with milk and honey; you think you are clever to live in the water.

(Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji - Page 990, Line 11)

A cup of milk and a jug of water is brought to family god,

by Naam Dayv, after milking the brown cow. ||1||

Please drink this milk, O my Sovereign Lord God.

Drink this milk and my mind will be happy.

Otherwise, my father will be angry with me."||1||Pause||

Taking the golden cup, Naam Dayv filled it with the ambrosial milk,

(Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji - Page 1163, Line 18 )

Milk is compared to nectar, which one can drink to become immortal. Of course, simply drinking milk will not make one immortal.

Guru Ji instructed us NOT to indulge in things like: Only Milk can save you or can give you everything or GOD is happy with milk etc.... One has to do Naam, Daan and Ishnan.

So, it looks like milk does hold some important value, but the reason behind that cannot be explained by me with mand budh. It cannot be explanied by any of the so called today's scholar. The exact meanings can only be learned from a Sant Mahapurash/Brahmgyani.

das

[shaheediyan]

A perfect opportunity to re-visit the beautiful Bhai Lalo Ji's Sakhi, where again, the imagery of milk is used to reflect purity....

http://www.sikh-heritage.co.uk/personaliti...Bhai%20lalo.htm

Bhai Lalo

Bhai Lalo was born on Tuesday, 11th Assu 1509 Bikarmi i.e. 1452 AD. at the village of Saidpur (Pakistan). His father's name was Bhai Jagat Ram of the 'Ghataura' surname pertaining to the carpenter clan, now known as Ramgarhia. Bhai Lalo was nearly seventeen years older than Guru Nanak.

Guru Nanak Dev Ji left Sultanpur accompanied by Bhai Mardana and spent some time on his mission visiting Hindus and Muslims in West Panjab. At Saidpur, now called Emnabad, the Guru stayed at the house Bhai Lalo, an honest man who earned his bread with hard work. Lalo welcomed the Guru with great humility and reverence. There was a small well in the courtyard of the house of Bhai lalo, where Guru Ji used have his daily bath. This well was filled up in later years but recently the Ramgarhia Community bought this house of Bhai Lalo and the historic well was re-dug. This is one of the most important places of Guru Nanak's divine journeys - included now in a Sikh's pilgrimage to the holy places in Pakistan. It was here that the foundation of Sikhism was laid.

A Janamsakhi scene of Bhai Lalo with Guru Nanak and Mardana.

It happened that Malik Bhago, a rich landlord of Kshatriya caste and an official of the local Pathan Nawab, was giving a feast. He had invited all religious and holy men to join in the feast. When he came to know that a saint was staying at the house of Lalo, Malik Bhago sent a servant to invite Guru Nanak to join in the feast. The Guru declined the invitation, but when Malik Bhago sent his man repeatedly requesting the Guru to come, the Guru finally went to his house.

Malik Bhago asked the Guru, "Why do you refuse my bread and eat at the house of a low-caste Hindu, though you are a holy man of high-caste?" The Guru replied, "I have no caste, for me all men are equal." "Then why did you decline to join my feast?" asked Malik Bhago. Answered the Guru, "Do you really want to know?" Bhago said, "Yes, I want to know why you preferred Lalo's simple bread to my food." The Guru asked Bhago to bring some of his food, and asked Lalo to do the same. When the food was brought by both, Guru Saheb took a piece from Lalo's food in one hand, and a piece from Bhago's food in the other. When he squeezed his hands, from Lalo's food oozed out drops of milk, and from Bhago's food, drops of blood.

Guru Nanak squeezing blood from Malik Bhago's food and milk from the bread of Bhai Lalo

The Guru said, "Now you see why I declined to join your feast; your food is blood stained because you have accumulated your wealth by exploiting the poor, while Lalo earns his bread by the sweat of his brow, and shares his earnings with the needy." Malik Bhago was much ashamed at this and became speechless. He fell at the Guru's feet and prayed for mercy. All the people gathered there, bowed in humility before the Guru. The Guru looked at them with a loving glance and said, "That which belongs to another is unlawful, and as dirty as eating the flesh of the dead. A Guru showers his grace on those who re-frain from eating the dead. The flesh of the dead does not become lawful by breath-ing God's Name over it. Nor do we attain salvation by merely reciting the holy verses."

Guru Nanak and Mardana enjoying the food at the humble house of Bhai Lalo

The news spread that a Guru, who could challenge caste and authority, with such courage unknown before, travelled the countryside. More and more people came to listen to the enlightening words of the Guru. Bhai Lalo was blessed by Guru Nanak Dev Ii to spread the message of the Divine Name. He became a devout Sikh and preached the Guru's gospel to the people of Saidpur.

Once the Sultan of Emnabad's son fell ill and could not be cured by any vaid or doctor. After a lot of search and trials by 'Faqirs', somebody suggested that Bhai Lalo, who also dealt in herbal medicine (Vedic), should be summoned. Coincidentally Guru Nanak was also present, when the Sultan ordered Bhai Lalo to tend to his son. Guru Nanak told the Sultan that to ask somebody to do something for one required humility and not stubborn commands. The Sultan's wife caught hold of Guru Nana's feet and asked for forgiveness. Guru Nanak asked Bhai Lalo to bring a piece of bread (roti) from his house. Having brought the bread, Guru Ji asked the boy to eat the piece of bread. As soon as the boy had eaten he was cured of his illness. This miracle made the name of Bhai Lalo famous as a pious and saintly man. The Guru's singing of self-composed hymns in praise of God, with the accompaniment of rabab by Mardana, attracted many people in Emnabad.

It was here that the Mughal Emperor Babur first met Guru Nanak, and Guru Ji blessed him with seven generations of rule (Suraj Parkash).It was also here that Guru Ji uttered the Gurbani Shabad of "Jaisi Mein Aavey Khasam Ki Bani, Tesra kari gyan vey Lalo." GGS page722.

[das]

As shaheediyan has stated a sakhi to show the purity of milk, milk is the puriest form.

GOD has given food to unborn child inside the mother's womb, and then HE has given the food to newly born child through the mother. The point to note here is milk comes ONLY when a child is born to a mother and NOT before that. It is gift of GOD to newly born child that even if the newly born child's parents are very poor, even then the child will be survived on mother's milk.

Mother is second to GOD. So, Milk is considered to be pure and scared.

das