Kuttabanda2

​Yeah but check out some of our own fudhoo people's actions: 
They actually helped goray in their imperialistic bullshit as foot-soldiers. 

​We shouldn't lick others tattay either as you will see apne bande wishing Eid Mubarak but nothing on vaisakhi or 1984 while they die when something happens in Palestine.

The other factor is that Muslims aren't going anywhere anytime soon - we have to learn to live with them, like it or lump it. 
 
If so many Sikh 'men' weren't as emasculated as they are we wouldn't be having half the problems we have with grooming/conversions/bullying etc. But no, everyone wants to have an easy life and make money and pose in the most petty, egocentric and childish way within the 'community'. 

I think if you spend your whole life worrying about other people's feeling when you dont know how or why they are the way they are then you are just exposing yourself. In the world today your kind of Sikh self-policing is a hindrance not a help. To really believe your actions are the root of further hate and violence by refusing to accept others bigotry and stupidity just screams appeasement.

Sikhi is anti-dogmatic. Guru Nanak insulted religion and belief the world over that did not fit his world view. If that's too controversial for your left wing views then good for you, but I will always value human life over human belief no matter what.

​Though I don't support genocide, I do agree that Islam and it's followers threaten non-Islamic heritage, cultures, communities, and societies. I've seen it with my own eyes.
I doubt they'll find much in museums, since Muslims choose to obliterate almost everything non-Islamic.  

GOD HELP YOUR HUSBAND/LOVER/MAN/PERSON/THING/COMPANION/FRIEND...what ever you want to call your partner SK....he is in for an ear full I kid you not.

​this khoj guy has definitely got issues.
 
Or maybe he like satkirn and sher, think that by derailing topics they will get them closed so they don't have to answer relevant questions.

​khoj dont say stupid things here, it doesn't make you clever or hard. stupid yes.
Women being toid to bow to husbands? Never seen it ever in taksali or non-taksali houses. ever.
see, you are more than the cheap words you like to use. Thanks for the correction. To my knowledge Sandhu was married twice. His first wife became shaheed in bluestar.

of the few taksalis whose houses i have been in, i have never seen any of these. Perhaps you would like to elaborate on where you have seen them? Not read about them but seen them. Thanks.
 
​You have already recieved answers to these numerous times. it's not our fault if you can't understand them. but why keep throwing up the same vomit here on the forum?
​At last!
 
This is the first time in weeks you have said anything useful on this forum. Women should be represented more in leadership positions, not only in religious but also political affairs. Jagir Kaur was the head of the SGPC recently and Kiran Deep Kaur is a life member of the SGPC working committee but it's still not enough. During the years of Bhai Amrik Singh's tenure as the head of the AISSF, there was a female wing of the AISSF headed by Bibi Upkar Kaur, the extremely talented wife of Bhai Harminder Singh Sandhu. Bibi Upkar Kaur also became shaheed in Op Bluestar.
 
During a recent update to our local gurdwaras constitution I argued successfully that the constitution should be amended to allow females to take up any committee position. I have also encouraged females to consider joining the future committee and hope that some do.
​You have had your answers to these. It's not our fault if you cannot or will not understand them. It is a false statement to say that DT oppose this. If the Taksal had this kind of clout they would have reintroduced Raagmala and Sri Dasam Granth into Sri Akal Takht maryada by now. Not to mention the full reading of Sri Rehras Sahib.
 
Stop telling lies.

​whether you see it as not is up to you. In Panjabi/Sanskrit culture the mother is seen as "Rabb da roop". We have the terms maa, maa-boli, and maa-dharti in our culture .
 
Gyani Kartar Singh Klass walia has also written a verse in his famous "Dashmesh prakash" about how 10th Guru refrained from war on the orders of his mother.
 
Sikhkhoj don't ask me for a reference.

Paapi, brother if you read history. Muhammad did loot & distribute war booty including women amongst his followers. Don't even go far, look up on google: 'Rayhana Bint Zayed'.
She was a Jewish woman, her entire tribe including her father and husband were murdered by Muslims. Think one second from a logical perspective, would she willingly marry the man who ordered all of that? No. She was a war captive, then forced to marry.

Muhammad fell in love with his adopted son Zayeds wife, so he uttered a Quranic verse where it allows men to marry their adopted sons & then married her. Her name was Zaynab. As you can see Muhammad seems to be a prophet who had revelations to give a god-accepted authority of his actions and urges...
Read the Quran 33:37 about the above verse. It is clear, it allows to marry adopted sons wives just because Muhammad did.
 
 
 

Chatanga, do you believe he was a holy prophet? 
 
For one I don't believe how a holy man can have sexual relations with a little girl as quoted in their texts. Or have the followers gone astray ?
 
What I believe should be said is how Islam believes it is the duty of a Muslim to go and spread Islam to us non believers however their own pond is not clean. Killing and persecutions of non Muslims, rape of their women. I don't believe how god could instruct anyone to spread the name of their faith in that way.
 
Crystal

Are you aware of your perpetual habit of putting words in people's mouths? 
 
I haven't made any decision regarding dating other than the obvious one that it was completed after 1708. In light of what you've mentioned previously I would agree that the 1711 date seems to verge on the arbitrary.
I must say, I personally do find it VERY surprising that it does not mention anything of the post 1708 events (i.e. Banda Singh) if it was composed in 1741.   
 
PS - I haven't discounted the possibility that the author might have been another Sainapati (i.e. not the darbari kavi). 

1. Exactly my point, not many accounts exist in the first place so how can you judge whether Kesh keeping happened or not? Besides that Kesh keeping amongst hindus was not unnatural, this is mentioned in an Arab manuscript from the 11th century. I am not saying all Hindus kept kesh but many did.

Just like Hindus also often wore turbans last century but almost don't now. Does it mean that historically Hindus did not wear turbans?

2. What kind of Muslim bows down to a 'human' (as Muslims would put it - refering to Jagat Guru Nanak)? And enough Sikh literature mentions Mardana as a Guru da Sikh.

3. Your ancestors were (most probably, like mine) Hindus, why aren't you? That is a flawed logic you are applying - can't judge ancestors by the present generation or vice versa.

my english not good. he say i sh*t stirrer

maine kaha tha use ki mai yahan par tatti ko gholne nahi aya, mai sach hi toh bol raha hu

Maybe to a tosser like you, the systematic abuse and degradation of a vulnerable people is not an important issue.

However, anyone with an ounce of humanity would see it differently.

I believe they are doing the right thing...there is a limit to everything ...they are reacting to extremism which they see coming  from the muslims ...if they do not do this they will be like Afghanistan , Indonesia Malaysia those countries have to search the museums to find their Buddhist past .

Famous people world-wide became Buddhists because of it's philosophy based on Ahimsa. I don't know how this religion was bracketed as such. Changez Khan and the early Moghals were Buddhists I think before they adopted Islam.
 

​Good point.
A Sehajdhari is either a Keshdhari person, who is striving to become an Amritdhari
OR
A person of another faith, who has immense love for Satguru jee.
A Mona/Rhoda/Dhari katuaa cannot be classified as a Sehajdhari Sikh. Kesh (uncut hair) is the root of Sikhi.
Bhul chuk maaf

Sant Jarnail Singh Khalsa Bhindrawale's reasoning wasn't that women can't do Sevadaar because women didn't stand up when Guru Sahib asked for Sikhs, therefore they should be punished for that.  
During that time in the Taksal, there was a staunch view of the Panj Pyares being men only because that would "better" represent the first Panj Pyares. In addition, many times, Panj Pyares were required to be Grisht men, for obvious reasons. Another really important detail is that the Panj Pyares had to wear a very very VERY specific Bana, and they took it seriously. Which meant: only Yellow Cholas, Kamarkassas of a specific color only, Hazoorias of a specific color only and no Kadaiy (design), White Kacherras of a specific length, Dastaars could only be Gurmukhi Pagg, Dumallas or Gol Dastars only, Etc. the one Panj Pyare Bana requirement to note here is that the Panj could not wear Pyjamees at all. It was strictly prohibited, especially in Guru Sahib's Hazoori. The problem that would arise with this is that if a women did Seva, she would have to meet these Requirements, and wearing just a Kacherra isn't seen to be modest. Same Jarnail Singh jee just gave a brief explanation of the Bibiya in Panj Pyare thing, as a question was directed at him about the role of women in the Panth.
 
This view is not only held by DamDami Taksal, but also by some Nihangs, Nanaksaris and some factions of the Akhand Kirtani Jatha ( AKJ.org's California faction for one). 
I have an old copy of the Gurmat Rehat Maryada ( un"edited", not the "summarized" one.) 
Interestingly, I don't remember reading any "women should look at their Husbands as god" bull crap in it, as it is present in the "summarized" version.

Tapoban AKJ (Akhandkirtanijatha.org) are actually against this kind of stuff. They do Swaas Swaas Simran, but they don't practice dhunee in the middle of Kirtan, they don't do it at all, they also strongly oppose the shaking of heads and "Simran" escalating into mere screams and weird noises.

From my experiences and observations both on a macro and micro level, I've seen a lot of faults within the community along with virtues.

These are the faults that I find most notable:

-the fact that most of us don't fully understand our own religion
-we're severely intolerant of our own people yet kiss up to the Western lifestyle
- we don't educate our own offspring about Sikhi or strengthen it, due to the fact that most Panjabis know only 2% of Sikhi and haven't educated themselves about it
- "Orthodoxy" is either frowned upon or some a$$hole takes things too far
-We betray our own kind and are easy sell outs
- We try to Adapt to the western way of thought and life and try to understand our faith through those contexts and use them as our parameters in morality, ethics, and religion.
-extreme Hypocrisy
-Not uniting, even when we're in the west
-Selfishness
-preaching a concept and then contradicting it in actions and practice.

These problems are in almost all communities, but these are really prevalent amongst us.

The external Rehat is a Hukam from Patshahi 10, including the 5 Kakkars. However, this is only fruitful if the inner Rehat is kept, the Rehat of keeping good Charitar, Naam and Bani Abhyaas.

The Guru didn't give these Hukams for no reason, they're meant to be followed.

From my experiences and observations both on a macro and micro level, I've seen a lot of faults within the community along with virtues.

These are the faults that I find most notable:

-the fact that most of us don't fully understand our own religion
-we're severely intolerant of our own people yet kiss up to the Western lifestyle
- we don't educate our own offspring about Sikhi or strengthen it, due to the fact that most Panjabis know only 2% of Sikhi and haven't educated themselves about it
- "Orthodoxy" is either frowned upon or some a$$hole takes things too far
-We betray our own kind and are easy sell outs
- We try to Adapt to the western way of thought and life and try to understand our faith through those contexts and use them as our parameters in morality, ethics, and religion.
-extreme Hypocrisy
-Not uniting, even when we're in the west
-Selfishness
-preaching a concept and then contradicting it in actions and practice.

These problems are in almost all communities, but these are really prevalent amongst us.