What You Like /dislike About Our Community?

[Guest]

What you like or dislike about our community??

Here I will start off-

Like- Seva spirit(serving whole humanity) with langar/food/donations/charities, very hard working and successful community, Awareness of self defense among youths, youth initiative to take control of gurdwaras from old corrupt committees, hold sikhi camps, seminar on social activism, parchar on human right abuses, huge step in online parchar of sikhism for westerners, loads of parchar of sikhi in English, pro active role in online community/social media sites.

Dislike- Lack of chanting of Vahiguroo or Mool Mantra in Gurdwaras, Lack of understanding of Sikh theology ie- mysticism, spirituality, self awareness; lack of awareness of eating healthy, exercise/yoga; lack of unity-lack of coordination efforts from Sri Akaal Takth Sahib, caste issues, lack of acknowledgement of issues of fanaticism among youths, lack of any support for social victims(marriage abuse), lack of any spiritual support for people affected by spirits, dirty punjab poltics in Gurdwaras Committees, Sangat lack an courtesy/discipline in Gurdwara , comrade type mindset creeping to people, back bitting, jealously.

Ok that's all i can think of for now..!

[amardeep]

Sikhs today are the most pendu community i've ever seen... pairi qaum

[SURYADEV]

+ Sikhs/Panjabis have a glorious and illustrious past.

- Sikhs/Panjabis today live off the glories of our forefathers, without forging our own path.

[amardeep]

Its not that glorious when you think about it really. Nothing but infightings since 1740s.

[Guest]

Oh forgot to add, please use this thread to list of things you like to see our community improving and how...don't just list the problem but provide solutions tooo...

[kdsingh80]

Like- Seva spirit(serving whole humanity) with langar/food/donations/charities, very hard working and successful community, Awareness of self defense among youths, youth initiative to take control of gurdwaras from old corrupt committees, hold sikhi camps, seminar on social activism, parchar on human right abuses, huge step in online parchar of sikhism for westerners, loads of parchar of sikhi in English, pro active role in online community/social media sites

All these plus points you have mentioned are in Youths Living outside India.I don't think any positive here seen in India.

[dalsingh101]

Likes: No priests to have to suck up to. Langar always available. No need to engage in forced/contrived socialising. Beautiful body of scripture. Growing body of quality literature related to faith. Gurdwara open late (some of them anyway). A relative degree of freedom of interpretation. Cosmopolitan outlook. No brainwashing. Individualised spiritual experience.

Dislike: No pastoral support for the less fortunate. No real drive/will to impart language and principles of faith to the youth in a profound, meaningful way that improves their characters. Very shallow understandings of mystical side of faith - usually reduced to external symbols and ritualistic prayer and Panjabcentric politics. Clannish mentality. No attempt to embed principles of faith into wider community i.e. Sikh principles are not used as a model for our society rather backward Panjabi ones are used. Constant failure to be critically reflective. Casteism and nepotism. Rule of the jungle (strongest wins). Anti-intellectualism. Fortune of faith tied to agricultural scenario in Panjab and the resultant penducentrism. Inability of males to live up to martial heritage despite bigging it up all the time. Hordes of slutty females. Cowardice in face of external aggression. A plethora of spoilt brats. Nerds. Evil step mothers with Queen Bee syndrome. Sycophancy to whites past and present. Gurdwaras run by profiteers and the corrupt. Bullshit Panjab politics defining the quom. Myopic localised thinking. Rampant materialism.

Possible solutions: A more youth centred approach heavily invested in. A well thought out, absolutely inclusive, education plan that expands children's minds along Gurmat principles. This should focus on alerting and warning youth of problems of narrow and backward mindedness that inflict panthic thinking today. Provisions for older Sikhs who are not knowledgeable about faith to learn in an appropriate environment (i.e. the 30+). A heavily invested in drive to ensure a high level of literacy in Panjabi/Gurmukhi by every Sikh globally akin to Ataturks drive to implement his modern Turkish on his people. Complete overhaul of SGPC and Akali Dal with a new transparent system to oversee Gurdwara management in Panjab (and outside). Extra vigilance to identify and punish sly casteists in the panth. Urbanisation and globalisation of Sikhi parchaar to reflect the increasing urbanisation of the panth. Top grade Sikh universities. Development of strong modern Sikh economy. Checks and balances against nepotism and casteism in all institutes. Promotion and use of a meritocracy whilst also striving to level the playing field for those that have been shat on for a long while. Severe punishments to backward apnay who try and drag the panth down with their myopic actions and thinking.

The development and implementation of a modern strategic plan to push the community forward in the 21st century that is developed by forward thinking, progressive, intelligent, well educated Sikhs (i..e not plump, self centred jathedars from a pend with no duniyadari).

Edited April 27, 2011 by dalsingh101

[Guest]

thanks for your precious feedback guys..keep the response coming...may be this thread can invoke an passion of improving things in our community..it starts with one, then turn into 2, then replicates..that's the hope anyway...youths are hope for sikhi abroad...old folks abroad are seriously need to get off from their power hungry seats and give youths an chance to help the community.

[jaikaara]

Like - we guys are generally simple headed, not too much kamina pan and very friendly, i had a lot of emotional support from the Gurdwara sevadars during my USA trip, i was going bonkers due to solitude !

Dislike - shades of casteism, taking pride in alcohol consumption and superiority complex.

Solutions - we need to understand that the world is not all we can think and imagine, accept the various shades of the creation of Akaal Purakh and stop criticizing other's beliefs

[Mr Sardar]

Like- improvement in paag styles, langar, online activites going up

Dislike- Selfish, thievish, backwards, stab-in-the-back, jealous, envious, hateful, lustful attitude from sikhs, creation of the bhangra industry, raving, clubbing, sleeping around, fighting other races + religions and self for no reason, stupidity, ignorance, corruption, non-functional brotherhood, gianis with there stomach sticking out, gianis commiting pedophila again and again, raagis cooking meat/sasuages/eggs and drinking in a gurdwara, so many sikhs marrying out of religion as there issues in people, being alcoholics, dishonest, being the most corrupt lot, sikh girls producing a reputation of being hoes, men of drunks, amritdharis becoming khalistani extremists, we do not preach our religion to others.

Solutions- we need to invest into our parcharaks, to be highly educated from punjab such as damdami taksal get the gianis to know alot of languages, gurbani in soor and start with punjab to bring everyone in punjab into gursikhi first.

Alot of people think sikhism has ended when it has only just started we have a chance to put ourselves in the history books like other sikhs did in the past.

Edited April 27, 2011 by sarbatdapala

[Parchand]

Like: Guruji, Baani & Itehaas as well as those who have been inspired in countless ways.

Dislike: Pakhand.

Solutions:

Concept of Raj Karega Khalsa will emerge stronger in our Panth. Not political but on internal, reflective, spiritual level. I see this happening as pakhand only lasts so long before the truth comes out.

Concept of Deg Tegh Fateh is severely lacking. We offer solutions without funding them and complain about existing corrupt organisations. Look at american sikhs, they set up completely new seperate institutions that have emerged much stronger than traditional punjabi ones. Those who have sold out, have sold out, move on..

Use your daswand (of time not just money) very wisely & prudently to get the most bang for your buck to affect positive social change. You dont need buildings, you dont even need £1000 to start up a self-funded non-profit social enterprise.

Rather than relying on corrupt institutions & Gurdwara Committees, we ourselves should setup Soup Kitchens for the poor that may not be near a Gurdwara or be too scared to go due to maryada. We can fund these by our selves, our businesses or seek funding of firms with social outlook in exchange for advertising.

Work with existing positive social enterprises & charities to increase their involvement in existing Gurdwaras. This includes environmental consultancies could advise Gurdwaras on operations/design/etc for example switching use cheaper lighting which saves on bills & helps environment. Here in the UK, there is NHS Blood Service which could setup a regular bloodmobile at the Gurdwara so people could donate and help save the lives of others. Things like this help refocus our community's attention away from politics & division.

Lead by example !

Edited April 29, 2011 by Parchand

[Guest]

bump..lets discuss..!!

[dalsingh101]

Reading back my last post on the thread over 3 years ago I can't help but feel we haven't made much progress since then - unfortunately.

[Guest]

Reading back my last post on the thread over 3 years ago I can't help but feel we haven't made much progress since then - unfortunately.

Mega lol. But nature is in constant state of evolution if community does not evolve, nature will make them

[Koi]

Likes: the idea of no caste based ranking

Dislikes: the practice of caste based ranking

[SikhKhoj]

We have made some progress Dal.

If I compare the general state of Sikhs in 2005 with now there is a huge difference. After militancy ended, the Sikhs were broken and shattered. No one used to talk about Sikhi or other relevant issues in Punjab but just watch the past few years have had a big change (esp post 2008-9). Even Bhai Ranjit Singh Dhadrianwale mentioned it in one of his recent diwaans - that over the years the composition of sangat has changed to about 80% youth (from 80% elders before)

In my own family all my cousins cut their hair at some point between 2000 and 2010 but now some have came back. And yeah, I know that having kesh is not necessarily a sign of being a Sikh but still it shows a trend.

In the west we have Basics of Sikhi, with whom I disagree on many major points, but they are doing a good job. Street Parchar is the best thing to have happened, back to what Sikh preachers used to do during Gurus times. Heck they even have native spanish and chinese sevadars making videos in those languages.

Would like to conclude this post that our negative point is that we're always negative and don't appreciate the changes (howhever small they may be).

[Guest]

I was saying on other thread,

Our community is worst when it comes to providing basic human right courtesy/benefit of doubt/privacy to others(most often their own) specially on cyber web, social media, radio stations.

This punjabi samosa style politics/media journalism have to stop especially in western countries.

Look around on facebook, you be absolutely mortified and gutted amount of pit bull bitting each other head that goes on in our community.

Its so surprising many of our people will be biggest (yes sir yes sir) of whites/non sikhs but when it comes to their own they won't wait until one sec to eat their own.

It's like our community does amazing social service to others/man kind but when it comes to our own, we almost get into this self destructive mode or nature of shark which eats their own.

[dalsingh101]

Its so surprising many of our people will be biggest (yes sir yes sir) of whites/non sikhs but when it comes to their own they won't wait until one sec to eat their own.

It's like our community does amazing social service to others/man kind but when it comes to our own, we almost get into this self destructive mode or nature of shark which eats their own.

That's so true.

It's like a sibling that fights to get the favourable attention of their parents or society by attacking and defaming their other siblings.

[ramgharia]

in india prachar is done only in punjabi we should do prachar in hindi, and in others native languages. recently i visited harmandir sahib there i had seen some books in hindi thats good but we need to do street prachar (like basics of sikhi) in hindi also if posible we should do kathas in hindi.

[Kuttabanda2]

From my experiences and observations both on a macro and micro level, I've seen a lot of faults within the community along with virtues.

These are the faults that I find most notable:

-the fact that most of us don't fully understand our own religion

-we're severely intolerant of our own people yet kiss up to the Western lifestyle

- we don't educate our own offspring about Sikhi or strengthen it, due to the fact that most Panjabis know only 2% of Sikhi and haven't educated themselves about it

- "Orthodoxy" is either frowned upon or some a$$hole takes things too far

-We betray our own kind and are easy sell outs

- We try to Adapt to the western way of thought and life and try to understand our faith through those contexts and use them as our parameters in morality, ethics, and religion.

-extreme Hypocrisy

-Not uniting, even when we're in the west

-Selfishness

-preaching a concept and then contradicting it in actions and practice.

These problems are in almost all communities, but these are really prevalent amongst us.

[Guest]

From my experiences and observations both on a macro and micro level, I've seen a lot of faults within the community along with virtues.

These are the faults that I find most notable:

-the fact that most of us don't fully understand our own religion

-we're severely intolerant of our own people yet kiss up to the Western lifestyle

- we don't educate our own offspring about Sikhi or strengthen it, due to the fact that most Panjabis know only 2% of Sikhi and haven't educated themselves about it

- "Orthodoxy" is either frowned upon or some a$$hole takes things too far

-We betray our own kind and are easy sell outs

- We try to Adapt to the western way of thought and life and try to understand our faith through those contexts and use them as our parameters in morality, ethics, and religion.

-extreme Hypocrisy

-Not uniting, even when we're in the west

-Selfishness

-preaching a concept and then contradicting it in actions and practice.

These problems are in almost all communities, but these are really prevalent amongst us.

I agree with most of your points veer ji.. I am glad i m NOT the only person who feel this way about our community.

[dalsingh101]

We have made some progress Dal.

If I compare the general state of Sikhs in 2005 with now there is a huge difference. After militancy ended, the Sikhs were broken and shattered. No one used to talk about Sikhi or other relevant issues in Punjab but just watch the past few years have had a big change (esp post 2008-9). Even Bhai Ranjit Singh Dhadrianwale mentioned it in one of his recent diwaans - that over the years the composition of sangat has changed to about 80% youth (from 80% elders before)

And what has this achieved? From videos posted here I see Singhs slapping about sadhus and beating bajurags or other defenseless people. Casteism is worse than ever. We are still a very primitive society in Panjab. That's the problem. People think because parchaar might have increased, and sangats attending Gurdwaras are swelling (or demographics changing), things are improving. But what about deeply held, backwards mindsets that remain unchallenged. Some of those things going on in Panjab are straight shameful. We live in globalised times; hordes of Panjabi Sikhs are abroad and can see how more civilised people live - we still can't translate that into our own heartland. Sometimes it appears as if we have REALLY LOW expectations of our community. So forgive me if I hold back from patting ourselves on the back just yet.

In my own family all my cousins cut their hair at some point between 2000 and 2010 but now some have came back. And yeah, I know that having kesh is not necessarily a sign of being a Sikh but still it shows a trend.

Well I hope it becomes more than just some external, regional, Panjabi cultural item/icon and people actually imbibe the heart of the dynamic, compassionate and progressive Sikh ethos with the kesh - otherwise it's means very little in my opinion.

In the west we have Basics of Sikhi, with whom I disagree on many major points, but they are doing a good job. Street Parchar is the best thing to have happened, back to what Sikh preachers used to do during Gurus times. Heck they even have native spanish and chinese sevadars making videos in those languages.

That IS A positive and step in right direction. I agree.

Would like to conclude this post that our negative point is that we're always negative and don't appreciate the changes (howhever small they may be).

Okay, but the flipside to that is that we cling on to tiny, superficial 'victories' and ignore the hordes of white elephants amassing in the room.

We got to expect more from our society.

[Guest]

I think raising collective consciousness of our community is not overnight thing, will require massive efforts from top to bottom:

* You need parcharikhs who put truth and integrity first then securing visa to come to west, securing a fixed income from gurdwara - supressing truth in gurbani for their own survival, say whatever many pampered listeners or gurdwara committe wants to hear.

* Parcharikhs need not require to do parchar in gurdwara to uphold truth and integrity, stick to youtube channels be done with this red tape non sense limitations on truth, limitations on speech talking about real underlining issues in the community, have steady full time job of something else as you are not suppressing truth in gurbani just to make a living. I cannot stress this enough, parcharikh must have its own job of its socio-economic field so there are no dependency on anyone this ensure truth is not supressed or in clash course with parcharikh financial need.

* Real sant-sipahi activist does not shy away from internal and external issues and see things from not relative but absolute point of view full eagle 360 view of the panth without any bias

* I am not crazy fan of harbhajan singh yogi keeping his contoversy aside but respect what he has done, he looked at sikh punjabi (inter cultural tribal) community issues from outside view, tell the facts the way/truth it is, fanatics didn't obviously like it totally went after him, he didn't back off. His point was - every sikh is made into khalsa (pora satgur- khalsa mera satgur poora to be sovergein) and made decisions based on panj, there are no conflicts- get panj singhs together with truth and integrity, work out solutions don't come outside of room if there are no resolutions, fact there are hurdles from sikh community to get panj pyares to speak, sikh hall meetings and they were turned into pure symbolic gesture who singhs come as part time duty once a month for amrit sanchar shows the absolute travesty where we are heading.

He made it very clear when you have trend of political type sikhs act humble say I cannot take ownership of actual khalsa/realize the essence (khalsa mera satgur poora), they cannot deliver they lack any truth and integrity, these people are thieves..!!

[Guest Amardeep]

I see lots of good developements in recent years in Europe:

- An awareness amongst youth that Sikhi is a universal religion - this has led to parchaar towards non-Sikhs and local investment in local Sikhs (instead of the typical import of Granthis and parcharaks from India - even after 100 years of Sikh presence in the UK, 100% of all granthis are still imported from India instead of being local).

- more organisations amongst youth that caters to different mindsets - today in UK at least you have "groups" for intellectuals, those spiritually inclined, those inclined to strict lifestyles, groups for ex criminals who dont fit in else where etc. This brings greater diversity.

- More and more literature of a hiqh quality is being made availible. For those who are not interested in reading, groups like Basics of Sikhi are good in providing high quality material in the english language.

- more and more youngsters are seeing themselves as europeans, - this leads to a fall in support of casteism and typical punjabi mindsets.

[dalsingh101]

- more and more youngsters are seeing themselves as europeans, - this leads to a fall in support of casteism and typical punjabi mindsets.

If what you are saying is true, it is very telling (in my opinion) that internal forces within the community are ineffectual in combating these diseases.

That being said, even if a number of the diaspora are doing what you claim, it still doesn't address the rampant nonsense going on in the heartland of Sikhs where the vast majority of us reside.