ibrute

ਹੋਰਿ ਮਰਿ ਜੰਮਹਿ ਆਵਹਿ ਜਾਵਹਿ ਅੰਤਿ ਗਏ ਪਛੁਤਾਵਹਿ ਬਿਨੁ ਨਾਵੈ ਸੁਖੁ ਨ ਹੋਈ ॥ Others die, to be reincarnated; they continue coming and going, and in the end, they depart regretfully. Without the Name, there is no peace.  

ਜਿਨੀ ਸਤਿਗੁਰੁ ਨ ਸੇਵਿਓ ਸੇ ਆਇ ਗਏ ਪਛੁਤਾਹਿ ॥ Those who do not serve the True Guru, come and go regretting.

ਵਿਚਿ ਹਉਮੈ ਕਰਮ ਕਮਾਵਦੇ ਜਿਉ ਵੇਸੁਆ ਪੁਤੁ ਨਿਨਾਉ ॥
Those who do their deeds in ego are like the prostitute's son, who has no name

ਸਾਕਤ ਬੇਸੁਆ ਪੂਤ ਨਿਨਾਮ ॥੩॥
The faithless cynic is nameless, like the prostitute's son. ||3||

ਦੁਰਮਤਿ ਮਦੁ ਜੋ ਪੀਵਤੇ ਬਿਖਲੀ ਪਤਿ ਕਮਲੀ ॥
Those fools, who drink in the wine of evil-mindedness, become the husbands of prostitutes.

ਬੇਸੁਆ ਕੈ ਘਰਿ ਬੇਟਾ ਜਨਮਿਆ ਪਿਤਾ ਤਾਹਿ ਕਿਆ ਨਾਮੁ ਸਦਈਆ ॥੬॥
When a son is born in the house of a prostitute, who can tell the name of his father? ||6||

ਜਿਉ ਬੇਸੁਆ ਪੂਤ ਬਾਪੁ ਕੋ ਕਹੀਐ ਤਿਉ ਫੋਕਟ ਕਾਰ ਵਿਕਾਰਾ ਹੇ ॥੫॥
Just as no one knows who is the father of the prostitute's son, such are the worthless, useless deeds that are done. ||5||

ਬੇਸੁਆ ਭਜਤ ਕਿਛੁ ਨਹ ਸਰਮਾਵੈ ॥
He is not ashamed to spend time with prostitutes.

ਬੇਸੁਆ ਕੇਰੇ ਪੂਤ ਜਿਉ ਪਿਤਾ ਨਾਮੁ ਤਿਸੁ ਜਾਇ ॥
They are like the son of a prostitute, who does not know the name of his father.

ਬਿਨੁ ਸਿਮਰਨ ਗਰਧਭ ਕੀ ਨਿਆਈ ॥
Without meditating in remembrance on the Lord, one is like a donkey.

ਸਿਰੀਰਾਗੁ ਮਹਲਾ ੧ ॥ Siree Raag, First Mehl:  ਸੁੰਞੀ ਦੇਹ ਡਰਾਵਣੀ ਜਾ ਜੀਉ ਵਿਚਹੁ ਜਾਇ ॥ The empty body is dreadful, when the soul goes out from within.  ਭਾਹਿ ਬਲੰਦੀ ਵਿਝਵੀ ਧੂਉ ਨ ਨਿਕਸਿਓ ਕਾਇ ॥ The burning fire of life is extinguished, and the smoke of the breath no longer emerges.  ਪੰਚੇ ਰੁੰਨੇ ਦੁਖਿ ਭਰੇ ਬਿਨਸੇ ਦੂਜੈ ਭਾਇ ॥੧॥ The five relatives (the senses) weep and wail painfully, and waste away through the love of duality. ||1||  ਮੂੜੇ ਰਾਮੁ ਜਪਹੁ ਗੁਣ ਸਾਰਿ ॥ You fool: chant the Name of the Lord, and preserve your virtue.  

ਦੂਜੈ ਲਗੇ ਪਚਿ ਮੁਏ ਮੂਰਖ ਅੰਧ ਗਵਾਰ ॥
Attached to duality, the foolish, blind and stupid people waste away and die.
 

ਅੰਤਰਿ ਵਸਤੁ ਮੂੜਾ ਬਾਹਰੁ ਭਾਲੇ ॥
Deep within the self is the secret, but the fool looks for it outside.
ਜਿਉ ਜਿਉ ਚਲਹਿ ਚੁਭੈ ਦੁਖੁ ਪਾਵਹਿ ਜਮਕਾਲੁ ਸਹਹਿ ਸਿਰਿ ਡੰਡਾ ਹੇ ॥੨॥
The more they walk away, the deeper it pierces them, and the more they suffer in pain, until finally, the Messenger of Death smashes his club against their heads.
ਸਚੁ ਸੰਜਮੁ ਕਰਣੀ ਸੋ ਕਰੇ ਗੁਰਮੁਖਿ ਹੋਇ ਪਰਗਾਸੁ ॥੧॥ ਰਹਾਉ ॥
Practicing truth, self-discipline and good deeds, the Gurmukh is enlightened. ||1||Pause||
ਹਉਮੈ ਕਰਮ ਕਮਾਵਦੇ ਜਮਡੰਡੁ ਲਗੈ ਤਿਨ ਆਇ ॥
Those who go around acting in egotism are struck down by the Messenger of Death with his club.
ਜਮ ਕਾ ਡੰਡੁ ਮੂੰਡ ਮਹਿ ਲਾਗੈ ਖਿਨ ਮਹਿ ਕਰੈ ਨਿਬੇਰਾ ॥੩॥
When the Messenger of Death strikes him with his club, in an instant, everything is settled. ||3||
ਨਾਮੁ ਬਿਸਾਰਿ ਲੋਭਿ ਮੂਲੁ ਖੋਇਓ ਸਿਰਿ ਧਰਮ ਰਾਇ ਕਾ
ਡੰਡੁ ਪਰੇ ॥੧੦॥
Forgetting the Naam, and caught by greed, he betrays his own source; the club of the Righteous Judge of Dharma will strike him over the head. ||10||
ਅਮਲੁ ਕਰਿ ਧਰਤੀ ਬੀਜੁ ਸਬਦੋ ਕਰਿ ਸਚ ਕੀ ਆਬ ਨਿਤ ਦੇਹਿ ਪਾਣੀ ॥
Make good deeds the soil, and let the Word of the Shabad be the seed; irrigate it continually with the water of Truth.
ਆਸਾ ਬੰਧਿ ਚਲਾਈਐ ਮੁਹੇ ਮੁਹਿ ਚੋਟਾ ਖਾਇ ॥
Bound by desire, they are led on, beaten and struck on their faces and mouths.
ਸਾਚੇ ਮੈਲੁ ਨ ਲਾਗਈ ਮਨੁ ਨਿਰਮਲੁ ਹਰਿ ਧਿਆਇ ॥
The truthful ones are not stained by filth. Meditating on the Lord, their minds remain pure.
 
ਗੁਰਮੁਖਿ ਕਾਰ ਕਮਾਵਣੀ ਸਚੁ ਘਟਿ ਪਰਗਟੁ ਹੋਇ ॥
The Gurmukh practices good deeds, and the truth is revealed in the heart.

Isn't your EGO also working through your messages? Think about it?
I'm NOT taking sides with you or chatanga but you read your messages. And please stop these arguments on this topic and kindly use your debating powers somewhere else (open a new topic or thread).
My personal thinking is that you're trapped in your own world and don't want to come out of it. Just like a frog living in a well and refused to the presence of external world. (NO pun intended). The world is NOT about Man-vs-Woman and I know that you'll respond that you believe in equality and everyone else is not; but in reality you're just on the other-side (of the same coin). You claim to see beyond physical aspects (Man vs Woman) yet your messages give entirely different indication (i.e you're just the other side).
Please channel your power to some good work where someone can be benefitted. I don't think being in Army, Emergency team volunteering, Debating, Practicing Sikh, part of Gurdwara committee, some limited experiences, OBE etc. has anything to do with helping people and Spiritually uplifting yourself along with other people. It sounds like these things are just proving an secret ego booster for you where you're not even aware of it. Welcome to this world of illusions!!
Do something which would you help you AND the other person Spiritually and accept that there is NO guarantee that you're more pious/spiritual than the other person who you're debating with. You may or may not be more spiritual than the other, but debating while thinking that you're right and only you do see the whole truth is NOT the right way on this Spiritual path.

The shabad above is very deeply mystical.
One will ONLY understand it completely in its entirety..after they have experienced Waheguru themselves...ie, when the dasam duar opens and Waheguru opens the door to nijh mahal. -->>waheguru darshan...waheguru parkash...
You can look around and search for the arths, but they will mostly all be diverting from the truth in one way or the other...........Why do I say that ??..
-Because quite simply, when one experiences the whole Sach and the whole Truth.-->then there is no right or wrong way to describe it..
The shabad is purely esoteric and is not about astrology.
I would be surprised to see some arths that would cover more than 65% of the abyaas practice it refers to..because those who have experienced the 100%, would be unable to put it in words...............And like I said,..there can't be no wrong arth or a right one either!
I can give you a few pointers from yoga.....left eye/right eye.,,.left side/right side...ida/pingala... are represented by Moon and Sun. But also in Gurbani,,..depending on the shabad's context, the Sun represents heat and agan which is lower part of body, whereas the cooler moon is head upwards....our poison(bikh) from our doing becomes manifest lower down and the cooling amrit from the top completely eradicates it and changes it into rays of light emerging instead....Some of this is what Guru Nanak iji is pointing at in the shabad.,,,,but he is also describing his jyot being completely immersed in waheguru. at the same time.
One can only get their surti to rise all the way up to dasam duar, when the central nadi-the 'Sukhmana', is fully open.  ...This only opens when the surti from left and right side becomes central... That is just the basic,  however,..it is hard enough!....then follow much more efforts where one has to keep the jeevan jach in line with walking away from duality.................But that's not all,...because many self conflicts inside yourself between your own ego and atma..etc..also have to be addressed and dealt with....and this becomes an ongong battle with the 5 chor.
Sun into moon is also about going into that line in the middle of duality. We have to remember that one can not attain waheguru darshan by technique alone..The Sikh has to Transform into Gurmukh....The simran automatically starts to do this in many unbelievable ways.
Duality has to be conquered towards becoming advait(non-dual).............But you can never become completely advait until you get immersed in the Satch-in totality.
While in maya world, a Sikh has to walk on that very very thin line in the middle of duality--->which is why dasam patshah gave and showed us the double edged khanda and it's very sharp cutting edge-->>which defines the razor thin line that the Sikh treads on.
 
Das's post above is very good. Astrology is itself a study of the astronomy on our own selves......Gurbani  tells you in many places that the whole universe and it's master(GOBIND)..is within your own body. This then means that what we do inside us, will also affect the world and universe outside,...and vice versa.
Das made some interesting points about our body correlations with the whole cosmos...and some of them I hadn't given much though previously, but there is also significance of 5 digits on each side of our body on hands and feet....the 5 senses. the karam indries..the gyan indries...
The 4 fingers with 3 phalanges each(4x3=12 again)...and there is also the same kind of miri-piri aspects with having a pair of each which represent duality of physical/spiritual...destined/karmic....etc..
There must be so much more,...and I've only just picked the above up here and there and with my own experiences-->conclusions.......but like Das says,, it's very difficult to find an astrologer who is close to the truth in reality because they wouldn't be charging the money!
But I also repeat the same ....about not getting tied up trying to find astrological conclusions in gurbani..
To be honest, you have to find them yourself by going inside and having an internal dialogue with yourself. This way you also find that it helps your simran, because one big drawback in meditation is we sit down and the internal dialogue starts instead of jap. Therefore, try and do as much internal dialogue throughout the day and arrive at the conclusions as well,..as it will help you become more humble as well...But the main point is that in this way, you will have more free dhyan freed up to help put focus on gurmantar.
 
 

The above mentioned Shabad is neither referring to eclipse nor is referring to Heart chakra. Here is the full shabad:

ਪ੍ਰਭਾਤੀ  ਮਹਲਾ  ੧  ॥
ਅੰਤਰਿ  ਦੇਖਿ  ਸਬਦਿ  ਮਨੁ  ਮਾਨਿਆ  ਅਵਰੁ  ਨ  ਰਾਂਗਨਹਾਰਾ  ॥
ਅਹਿਨਿਸਿ  ਜੀਆ  ਦੇਖਿ  ਸਮਾਲੇ  ਤਿਸ  ਹੀ  ਕੀ  ਸਰਕਾਰਾ  ॥੧॥
ਮੇਰਾ  ਪ੍ਰਭੁ  ਰਾਂਗਿ  ਘਣੌ  ਅਤਿ  ਰੂੜੌ  ॥
ਦੀਨ  ਦਇਆਲੁ  ਪ੍ਰੀਤਮ  ਮਨਮੋਹਨੁ  ਅਤਿ  ਰਸ  ਲਾਲ  ਸਗੂੜੌ  ॥੧॥  ਰਹਾਉ  ॥
ਊਪਰਿ  ਕੂਪੁ  ਗਗਨ  ਪਨਿਹਾਰੀ  ਅੰਮ੍ਰਿਤੁ  ਪੀਵਣਹਾਰਾ  ॥
ਜਿਸ  ਕੀ  ਰਚਨਾ  ਸੋ  ਬਿਧਿ  ਜਾਣੈ  ਗੁਰਮੁਖਿ  ਗਿਆਨੁ  ਵੀਚਾਰਾ  ॥੨॥
ਪਸਰੀ  ਕਿਰਣਿ  ਰਸਿ  ਕਮਲ  ਬਿਗਾਸੇ  ਸਸਿ  ਘਰਿ  ਸੂਰੁ  ਸਮਾਇਆ  ॥
ਕਾਲੁ  ਬਿਧੁੰਸਿ  ਮਨਸਾ  ਮਨਿ  ਮਾਰੀ  ਗੁਰ  ਪ੍ਰਸਾਦਿ  ਪ੍ਰਭੁ  ਪਾਇਆ  ॥੩॥
ਅਤਿ  ਰਸਿ  ਰੰਗਿ  ਚਲੂਲੈ  ਰਾਤੀ  ਦੂਜਾ  ਰੰਗੁ  ਨ  ਕੋਈ  ॥
ਨਾਨਕ  ਰਸਨਿ  ਰਸਾਏ  ਰਾਤੇ  ਰਵਿ  ਰਹਿਆ  ਪ੍ਰਭੁ  ਸੋਈ  ॥੪॥੧੫॥
The shabad is referring to the process when "The Shabad" permanently resides in the Mind, then one tastes the real Amrit stored in the Crown Chakra. In other words, it is suggesting the last point in the journey to be outside of Time and Space. Crown Chakra is also known as the place of 1000 Suns which is so strong yet so calming that it (the light/ray) overtakes everything. The shabad has nowhere mentioned the Heart Chakra or Eclipse.
Moreover, in reality Astronomy and Astrology are exactly the same Science (Macro/Micro/Effects) but recenty (around 16-17th century) when people started accepting more materialistic views, this Science was broken into 2 different streams: Astrology and Astronomy. It's the same way, these days there are Specialist Doctors for each organ and they just worry about their particular organ; they do NOT understand that each and every cell in this body is interrelated and interlinked and work as ONE BIG SYSTEM.
Moreover, here are some clues to the play of 3 gunas and 5 elements in Space and Time:
Seven is a clue for everything that happens in Time. 7 comes from 3+4 (3 gunas + 4 elements). i.e 7 Traditional planets; 7 Major Chakras; 7 Rishis, and so on. Twelve is a clue for all things that co-exist in space. 12 comes from 3*4 (play of 3 gunas with 4 basic elements in Space). These are the twelve basic points with which everything in space is connected. It is possible to find the right way by connecting the spatial relationship of everything that occurs upon the earth with twelve permanent points in space — the twelve signs of the Zodiac in the cosmos. And there is always certain relation between the numbers Seven and Twelve, and that this relation has something to do with time and space. Time is revealed according to the number Twelve. The above mentioned points are the core of Astrology. It's very easy to say but very hard to understand the play of 12*7=84.
But at last, let me warm you that there are VERY RARE astrologers who fully understand Astrology and Astronomy in real sense but at the same time it does NOT mean that Sikhism is against Astrology. But do NOT try to find paid astrologers and do NOT try to look in Guru Granth Sahib Ji with the intention to find the reference to astrology and then proving that it is accepted in Sikhism. As I always say, this world is never Black-and-White.
Rudolf Steiner has said this perfectly: "Humanity, is intimately connected to cosmic beings, who in turn are related to planets and stars. There is meaning in the cosmos." He rejected the Simplistic notion of the planets determining our lives and behaviour, he shows that as individuals, and with the guidance of spiritual beings, we choose an appropriate time of birth to match the destiny we are to live.
In other words, when we reduce the systems (create Simplistic views separate from another system), then we are bound to fail and this is what is happening with Astrology these days (so-called Zodiac readings).
 

Does it mean that tenth Guru have established an institution which will give benefit to whosoever follows it (even on physical level) but will NOT give that kind of benefit to those who do not follow them?
Isn't this like Christianity who says that whosoever follows Jesus Christ won't have to go to Hell because Jesus have paid for their sins?
Actually, as per my understanding, there is some truth to what pappiman has mentioned.
e.g A person has taken Khanda Da Amrit and then did not follow anything Spititually and ended up doing lot of bad karams. Then the thing is that: His/Her Guru will not allow that person to go to Hell or will not allow the beating along the path to Dharamraj but he/she has to pay for his/her bad deeds via human birth in bad environment (but still human birth with possibility of Spiritual growth). Sometimes, Guru DOES allow that person to go to Hell or force them to take birth in animal world but Guru will always cut short his animal births because he was follower of his faith. Bottom line is: Guru will lend HIS helping hand to the SOUL who has gone astray. Persons without Guru won't have that kind of cushion.
There are various Sakhis portraying that:
Sakhi-1: There was a Sikh of tenth Guru who was performing the duty of Parshad distribution in the sangat. One day, another Sikh of high Spiritual came to the Sangat to get parshad; he requested parshad in hurry but the dutyman said harshly "Why you're jumping like bear?" To this the other person picked the parshad from the ground and left. Now, when the dutyman left the world, he was born as bear. But after some time, the bear's life was cut short by GuruJi; thus displaying the power of Guru.
Also, remember, each Avatar has its own Heaven and the persons worshiping Him as God cannot go beyond the realm of that demi-God.
But some people take it too strictly saying that as they have taken Amrit, so they won't suffer and they are bound to get benefits. It's not that simple. Mind has to be purified before one can be with HIM, but at the same time the path to real God goes via Guru (and nothing else) and if you follow Guru, then you DO have some cushion because of it.
Think it from another point of view: What's the use of Guru if HE cannot help the Soul who has done bad deeds under the effect of Maya. But at the same time, even Guru cannot go against the law of karma but HE knows how to go around the karma for the sake of his pupil's Soul. At last, it is not black and white and cannot be explained in words.

Nobody has proven shit. You think what the so called scholar sikh koj really proved anything? You are just blind and will stay blind cause you do not want to believe no matter how true a thing might be.

Paapimaan's point is that - Explicit language does not mean that it is solely for "entertainment".
He is saying that there is explicit language in Gurbani yet the purpose is to explain something deeper.
And that this is also what Charitropakhyan is doing but instead of spiritual concepts, it covers wordly concepts.
Did I understand it correctly?
Indeed they won't so don't give them any attention. "What you resist persists"

Instead focus on discussion of material in Charitropakhyan and how it is relevant to  today's society.

Talk about the deeper meanings in Charitropakhyan and in what situations that story or message might be helpful.

Ps also that would create a space for people, who are not familiar with the material, to dig their hands into.

As per my belief (based upon Sant Baba Isher Singh Ji's audio deewan), "Waheguru" mantar was first uttered as "Satnaam Waheguru" by Nirankar Himself when Guru Nanak Dev Ji requested Him to give Him updesh during Guru Nanak Dev Ji's visit to Nirankar (when Guru Ji went to Vae river for 3 days). Nirankar then uttered the Moolmantar.
Again, this is my belief and your belief might differ based upon the your choice of source. But in general, its best to believe that source which have actually travelled instead of the one who just visited the Map (via books, history, scriptures) and not the real thing.
If you want to hear the deewan, then here is the link: It starts from around: 30.00 till 48.00:
http://www.gurmatveechar.com/audios/Katha/01_Puratan_Katha/Sant_Ishar_Singh_(Rara_Sahib_wale)/051-100/070--Sant.Isher.Singh.(Rara.Sahib.wale)--Sri.Guru.Nanak.Dev.Ji.da.Sachkhand.Jana.mp3

I am being married in a few weeks in India via Anand Karaj at a historical gurdwara even... I had to change my name prior to getting a new passport and visa issued in the new name.  Having Kaur was essential.  I could have waited until I took Amrit in the same trip to take a first name... however, that would have meant a second full legal name change including all ID and passport etc again!  So I actually had Sikhs here help me... and yes it was chosen based on the hukam from SGGSJ.  The letter was H and with help from sangat Harkiran was chosen.  (My name is actually Harkiran Kaur).  But having Kaur was necessary so I could undergo Anand Karaj, and yes there is an Akal Takht edict it was from 2007.   

Inder Singh thought that Baba Ji gave him darshan and specifically told him that they will hold diwans in jadugar kothi. But Baba Ji has started diwans at Nabha House and are residing in the house of rai bahadur sardar. Thinking about such thoughts, he  took his card and reached at house of visakha singh at 9 am.  At that time Baba Ji had finished their Nitnem and were sitting on his Asan.
 ...  Inder Singh  reached the asan, and as he was about to reveal his inner feeling, doubts and questions Baba Ji asked him about the task that he was ordered to complete. Inder Singh replied that he was about to do the same benti.  Baba ji blessed him and told him that today we will hold evening diwans in that kothi.  Guru Granth Sahib ji were taken to the kothi. Sangat was told that evening diwans would be held in that jadugar kothi. After hearing this people were really scared and started talking amongst themselves that a pret lives there, how will diwans be held there. Time passed.
Evening came.  Baba ji arrived at the kothi with his jatha. Baba ji matha tek to Guru Sahib, and sprayed fragrances and scent around, and started doing chaur sahib di sewa in hajoori of Guru Sahib.  Bhai Kehar Singh Head ragi started doing keertan:
Sa dharti bhai hariawali jithe mera satgur baitha jaye ||
Say jant bhae hariawle jinni mera satgur dekhya jaaye ||
 After keertan, Baba Ji did Atmik Amrit Bachan.  But most people didn’t come to evening diwan because they were scared of the pret. Only few shardhvan and pooran gursikhs came. After the diwan was concluded, devotees left for their places and raagi singhs went to their nij asthans as well.  Around 12 o clock midnight many incidents happened about which Baba ji would tell next morning in diwan .
...stay tuned.. to be continued...

It's probably someone testing how far one can go in criticizing the Akhand Kirtani Jatha in order to make drama on this forum saying "look at the hypocrisy.. If you criticize Damdami Taksal or Nihangs you get a warning bla bla bla and if you criticize AKJ nothing happens"... Clearly someone looking to cause drama.

Who is this trouble maker? 

Kai Kot Pret Sukar Mirgach
Dehradun Jadugar Di Kothi
One time, 4-5 days before going to Dehradun , Baba Ishar Singh Ji Nanaksar Kaleran wale gave darshan to Inder Singh  at night and told him to clean the Jadugar Kothu between the two rivers, to perform kirtan diwans there. We are going to stay there, there is no need to fear.  Then baba ji disappeared after these bachans. This house belonged to a german spy who used it to hide. It was between two rivers, very strong , had many hidden passages, big veranda in front and a well nearby for drinking. Spy would hide in this place and perform his dutires.  When this spy was surrounded by police, and had no way out, he shot himself and ended up being a pret, troubling many people afterwards. Travellers who would pass in front of the house were often pelted with bricks and stones. No one would come near this place after 5 pm in evening. Govt tried to auction this place, but no one would buy it due to fear of pret.
 During the partition of 1947, this place was allotted to refugees who came from Pakistan area.  Pret troubled these refugees , and even they ended up leaving the place. Since then people were very scared to come close to this place.
 Next morning after he had darshan, Inder Singh went to meet Surjan Singh from Pind Galab Kalan. Inder Singh said,” Baba ji’s order is that we are supposed to clean jadugar kothi. Baba Ji is going to arrange diwans there.”Surjan Singh replied, “ There lives a pret who does not let anyone come near there. How will we enter ?” Inder Singh said, “ Baba jis order is strict. Nothing will happen, do not fear.  Whatever will happen will happen, don’t worry”.
In the next 2-3 days, they were able to clean the kothi, got it painted in white.
Baba Ji reached Dehradun.  Evening diwan happened in Nabha House. Later on Baba Ji went to Rai Bahadur Visakhas Singh house , upon humble request.  Baba Ji stayed overnight, and did Asa di war keertan at his place.
to be continued...  
ps  as I get more time. ;)