Astrology in Gurbani?

[paapiman]

Can someone please explain the meaning of this tuk, from astrological perspective? Daas might be wrong, but it seems like astrological terms are used in this tuk. 

Request: There might be many more arths of this tuk, but can we please focus on one arth in this topic. 

ਪਸਰੀ ਕਿਰਣਿ ਰਸਿ ਕਮਲ ਬਿਗਾਸੇ ਸਸਿ ਘਰਿ ਸੂਰੁ ਸਮਾਇਆ ॥ (ANG 1332)

The rays of light spread out, and the heart-lotus joyfully blossoms forth; the sun enters into the house of the moon

Thanks

Bhul chuk maaf

Edited August 13, 2015 by paapiman

[CdnSikhGirl]

Can someone please explain the meaning of this tuk, from astrological perspective? Daas might be wrong, but it seems like astrological terms are used in this tuk.

Request: There might be many more arths of this tuk, but can we please focus on one arth in this topic. 

ਪਸਰੀ ਕਿਰਣਿ ਰਸਿ ਕਮਲ ਬਿਗਾਸੇ ਸਸਿ ਘਰਿ ਸੂਰੁ ਸਮਾਇਆ ॥ (ANG 1332)

The rays of light spread out, and the heart-lotus joyfully blossoms forth; the sun enters into the house of the moon

Thanks

Bhul chuk maaf

Do you mean astrological or astronomical?  Astronomy is different than astrology... astronomy is the study of the cosmos, stars, planets etc. While astrology is predicting one's future using the zodiac signs (which science has never been able to prove has any valididty).

If you are speaking of astronomy, then from the above it sounds like the description of a solar eclipse... When a total solar eclipse happens, there is an effect when the sun is completely covered by the moon, where the rays are actually visible all around as if they are spreading outward.  They are always there but we can't see them because the light of the sun blocks them out.  But when the light from thje sun is blocked by the moon (sun entering the house of the moon), then these rays are visible. 

Here is a pic that shows this effect from an actual solar eclipse in 2012:

An eclipse is often used as a metaphor for the occurrance of something significant happening. (When an eclipse happened in ancient times, it was often a sign that something big was happening).  Immediately before this tuk says:

ਊਪਰਿ ਕੂਪੁ ਗਗਨ ਪਨਿਹਾਰੀ ਅੰਮ੍ਰਿਤੁ ਪੀਵਣਹਾਰਾ ॥
 Ūpar kūp gagan panihārī amriṯ pīvaṇhārā.
The Well is high up in the Tenth Gate; the Ambrosial Nectar flows, and I drink it in.
 
ਜਿਸ ਕੀ ਰਚਨਾ ਸੋ ਬਿਧਿ ਜਾਣੈ ਗੁਰਮੁਖਿ ਗਿਆਨੁ ਵੀਚਾਰਾ ॥੨॥
Jis kī racẖnā so biḏẖ jāṇai gurmukẖ gi▫ān vīcẖārā. ||2||
The creation is His; He alone knows its ways and means. The Gurmukh contemplates spiritual wisdom. ||2|| 

 

Meaning that there was contemplation going on...  and immediately after was:

ਪਸਰੀ ਕਿਰਣਿ ਰਸਿ ਕਮਲ ਬਿਗਾਸੇ ਸਸਿ ਘਰਿ ਸੂਰੁ ਸਮਾਇਆ ॥
Pasrī kiraṇ ras kamal bigāse sas gẖar sūr samā▫i▫ā.
The rays of light spread out, and the heart-lotus joyfully blossoms forth; the sun enters into the house of the moon. 
ਕਾਲੁ ਬਿਧੁੰਸਿ ਮਨਸਾ ਮਨਿ ਮਾਰੀ ਗੁਰ ਪ੍ਰਸਾਦਿ ਪ੍ਰਭੁ ਪਾਇਆ ॥੩॥
Kāl biḏẖuns mansā man mārī gur parsāḏ parabẖ pā▫i▫ā. ||3||
I have conquered death; the desires of the mind are destroyed. By Guru's Grace, I have found God. ||3|| 

To me this is using an eclipse (a significant astronomical occurrence often associated as a harbinger something significant happening) as a metaphor to get the point across as to the signifigance of finding God within yourself.  It's such a huge event that it can only be compared to something so significant as an eclipse was seen to the whole the world.  In other words, the 'eclipse' was in finding God, and thus death was conquered because truth was now known about reality and that there really is no death (it's part of the illusion). The 'rays of light spreading out' were in the gaining of that knowledge (like we often use a lightbulb being turned on when there is some sort of realization or idea popping into someone's head, like a light being turned on).

The heart lotus is obviously representing the heart chakra, which coincidentally enough is associated to anhad naad... the unstruck sound current - and finding ONEness - it's the sound of all creation - the base of reality. IN fact in Sanskrit it's referred to as Anhata meaning literally 'unstruck'.  So it seems to me that what this shabad is saying is that:

Through contemplation, the tenth gate was opened, through the heart chakra he heard the unstruck sound current, and connect with God.  The realization of this was so significant he compared to a significant astronomical event like an eclipse.

Edited August 13, 2015 by Satkirin_Kaur

[das]

Do you mean astrological or astronomical?  Astronomy is different than astrology... astronomy is the study of the cosmos, stars, planets etc. While astrology is predicting one's future using the zodiac signs (which science has never been able to prove has any valididty).

The heart lotus is obviously representing the heart chakra, which coincidentally enough is associated to anhad naad... the unstruck sound current - and finding ONEness - it's the sound of all creation - the base of reality. IN fact in Sanskrit it's referred to as Anhata meaning literally 'unstruck'.  So it seems to me that what this shabad is saying is that:

 

The above mentioned Shabad is neither referring to eclipse nor is referring to Heart chakra. Here is the full shabad:

ਪ੍ਰਭਾਤੀ  ਮਹਲਾ  ੧  ॥
ਅੰਤਰਿ  ਦੇਖਿ  ਸਬਦਿ  ਮਨੁ  ਮਾਨਿਆ  ਅਵਰੁ  ਨ  ਰਾਂਗਨਹਾਰਾ  ॥
ਅਹਿਨਿਸਿ  ਜੀਆ  ਦੇਖਿ  ਸਮਾਲੇ  ਤਿਸ  ਹੀ  ਕੀ  ਸਰਕਾਰਾ  ॥੧॥
ਮੇਰਾ  ਪ੍ਰਭੁ  ਰਾਂਗਿ  ਘਣੌ  ਅਤਿ  ਰੂੜੌ  ॥
ਦੀਨ  ਦਇਆਲੁ  ਪ੍ਰੀਤਮ  ਮਨਮੋਹਨੁ  ਅਤਿ  ਰਸ  ਲਾਲ  ਸਗੂੜੌ  ॥੧॥  ਰਹਾਉ  ॥
ਊਪਰਿ  ਕੂਪੁ  ਗਗਨ  ਪਨਿਹਾਰੀ  ਅੰਮ੍ਰਿਤੁ  ਪੀਵਣਹਾਰਾ  ॥
ਜਿਸ  ਕੀ  ਰਚਨਾ  ਸੋ  ਬਿਧਿ  ਜਾਣੈ  ਗੁਰਮੁਖਿ  ਗਿਆਨੁ  ਵੀਚਾਰਾ  ॥੨॥
ਪਸਰੀ  ਕਿਰਣਿ  ਰਸਿ  ਕਮਲ  ਬਿਗਾਸੇ  ਸਸਿ  ਘਰਿ  ਸੂਰੁ  ਸਮਾਇਆ  ॥
ਕਾਲੁ  ਬਿਧੁੰਸਿ  ਮਨਸਾ  ਮਨਿ  ਮਾਰੀ  ਗੁਰ  ਪ੍ਰਸਾਦਿ  ਪ੍ਰਭੁ  ਪਾਇਆ  ॥੩॥
ਅਤਿ  ਰਸਿ  ਰੰਗਿ  ਚਲੂਲੈ  ਰਾਤੀ  ਦੂਜਾ  ਰੰਗੁ  ਨ  ਕੋਈ  ॥
ਨਾਨਕ  ਰਸਨਿ  ਰਸਾਏ  ਰਾਤੇ  ਰਵਿ  ਰਹਿਆ  ਪ੍ਰਭੁ  ਸੋਈ  ॥੪॥੧੫॥

The shabad is referring to the process when "The Shabad" permanently resides in the Mind, then one tastes the real Amrit stored in the Crown Chakra. In other words, it is suggesting the last point in the journey to be outside of Time and Space. Crown Chakra is also known as the place of 1000 Suns which is so strong yet so calming that it (the light/ray) overtakes everything. The shabad has nowhere mentioned the Heart Chakra or Eclipse.

Moreover, in reality Astronomy and Astrology are exactly the same Science (Macro/Micro/Effects) but recenty (around 16-17th century) when people started accepting more materialistic views, this Science was broken into 2 different streams: Astrology and Astronomy. It's the same way, these days there are Specialist Doctors for each organ and they just worry about their particular organ; they do NOT understand that each and every cell in this body is interrelated and interlinked and work as ONE BIG SYSTEM.

Moreover, here are some clues to the play of 3 gunas and 5 elements in Space and Time:

• Seven is a clue for everything that happens in Time. 7 comes from 3+4 (3 gunas + 4 elements). i.e 7 Traditional planets; 7 Major Chakras; 7 Rishis, and so on.
• Twelve is a clue for all things that co-exist in space. 12 comes from 3*4 (play of 3 gunas with 4 basic elements in Space). These are the twelve basic points with which everything in space is connected. It is possible to find the right way by connecting the spatial relationship of everything that occurs upon the earth with twelve permanent points in space — the twelve signs of the Zodiac in the cosmos.
• And there is always certain relation between the numbers Seven and Twelve, and that this relation has something to do with time and space. Time is revealed according to the number Twelve.

The above mentioned points are the core of Astrology. It's very easy to say but very hard to understand the play of 12*7=84.

But at last, let me warm you that there are VERY RARE astrologers who fully understand Astrology and Astronomy in real sense but at the same time it does NOT mean that Sikhism is against Astrology. But do NOT try to find paid astrologers and do NOT try to look in Guru Granth Sahib Ji with the intention to find the reference to astrology and then proving that it is accepted in Sikhism. As I always say, this world is never Black-and-White.

Rudolf Steiner has said this perfectly: "Humanity, is intimately connected to cosmic beings, who in turn are related to planets and stars. There is meaning in the cosmos." He rejected the Simplistic notion of the planets determining our lives and behaviour, he shows that as individuals, and with the guidance of spiritual beings, we choose an appropriate time of birth to match the destiny we are to live.

In other words, when we reduce the systems (create Simplistic views separate from another system), then we are bound to fail and this is what is happening with Astrology these days (so-called Zodiac readings).

 

Edited August 13, 2015 by das

[Lucky]

The shabad above is very deeply mystical.

One will ONLY understand it completely in its entirety..after they have experienced Waheguru themselves...ie, when the dasam duar opens and Waheguru opens the door to nijh mahal. -->>waheguru darshan...waheguru parkash...

You can look around and search for the arths, but they will mostly all be diverting from the truth in one way or the other...........Why do I say that ??..

-Because quite simply, when one experiences the whole Sach and the whole Truth.-->then there is no right or wrong way to describe it..

The shabad is purely esoteric and is not about astrology.

I would be surprised to see some arths that would cover more than 65% of the abyaas practice it refers to..because those who have experienced the 100%, would be unable to put it in words...............And like I said,..there can't be no wrong arth or a right one either!

I can give you a few pointers from yoga.....left eye/right eye.,,.left side/right side...ida/pingala... are represented by Moon and Sun. But also in Gurbani,,..depending on the shabad's context, the Sun represents heat and agan which is lower part of body, whereas the cooler moon is head upwards....our poison(bikh) from our doing becomes manifest lower down and the cooling amrit from the top completely eradicates it and changes it into rays of light emerging instead....Some of this is what Guru Nanak iji is pointing at in the shabad.,,,,but he is also describing his jyot being completely immersed in waheguru. at the same time.

One can only get their surti to rise all the way up to dasam duar, when the central nadi-the 'Sukhmana', is fully open.  ...This only opens when the surti from left and right side becomes central... That is just the basic,  however,..it is hard enough!....then follow much more efforts where one has to keep the jeevan jach in line with walking away from duality.................But that's not all,...because many self conflicts inside yourself between your own ego and atma..etc..also have to be addressed and dealt with....and this becomes an ongong battle with the 5 chor.

Sun into moon is also about going into that line in the middle of duality. We have to remember that one can not attain waheguru darshan by technique alone..The Sikh has to Transform into Gurmukh....The simran automatically starts to do this in many unbelievable ways.

Duality has to be conquered towards becoming advait(non-dual).............But you can never become completely advait until you get immersed in the Satch-in totality.

While in maya world, a Sikh has to walk on that very very thin line in the middle of duality--->which is why dasam patshah gave and showed us the double edged khanda and it's very sharp cutting edge-->>which defines the razor thin line that the Sikh treads on.

 

Das's post above is very good. Astrology is itself a study of the astronomy on our own selves......Gurbani  tells you in many places that the whole universe and it's master(GOBIND)..is within your own body. This then means that what we do inside us, will also affect the world and universe outside,...and vice versa.

Das made some interesting points about our body correlations with the whole cosmos...and some of them I hadn't given much though previously, but there is also significance of 5 digits on each side of our body on hands and feet....the 5 senses. the karam indries..the gyan indries...

The 4 fingers with 3 phalanges each(4x3=12 again)...and there is also the same kind of miri-piri aspects with having a pair of each which represent duality of physical/spiritual...destined/karmic....etc..

There must be so much more,...and I've only just picked the above up here and there and with my own experiences-->conclusions.......but like Das says,, it's very difficult to find an astrologer who is close to the truth in reality because they wouldn't be charging the money!

But I also repeat the same ....about not getting tied up trying to find astrological conclusions in gurbani..

To be honest, you have to find them yourself by going inside and having an internal dialogue with yourself. This way you also find that it helps your simran, because one big drawback in meditation is we sit down and the internal dialogue starts instead of jap. Therefore, try and do as much internal dialogue throughout the day and arrive at the conclusions as well,..as it will help you become more humble as well...But the main point is that in this way, you will have more free dhyan freed up to help put focus on gurmantar.

 

 

[sukrit kaur]

Excellent stuff by both das veer ji and lucky veer Ji!!

[CdnSikhGirl]

okay I will stop posting then... I just thought the imagery described seemed like a metaphor... Lucky, isn't that basically what I said?  I never said that sun / moon were being spoken of as in the physical sun and moon, but reference as a metaphor. Basically what both of you said (with only minor difference) is what I was trying to say.  I referenced heart chakra because that's the translation Paapiman used... 

 

Edited August 13, 2015 by Satkirin_Kaur

[paapiman]

 

There must be so much more,...and I've only just picked the above up here and there and with my own experiences-->conclusions.......but like Das says,, it's very difficult to find an astrologer who is close to the truth in reality because they wouldn't be charging the money!

 

Bro, Rikhi Bhrigu jee Maharaaj introduced this field of study, so that Brahmans could make a living out of it. There is nothing wrong, if a Astrologer charges for his services; even doctors, dentists, etc get paid for their services. As long as the Astrologer is not duping people. it should be fine.

Bhul chuk maaf

[Lucky]

Bro, Rikhi Bhrigu jee Maharaaj introduced this field of study, so that Brahmans could make a living out of it. There is nothing wrong, if a Astrologer charges for his services; even doctors, dentists, etc get paid for their services. As long as the Astrologer is not duping people. it should be fine.

Bhul chuk maaf

no worries,..your maaf ;)  lol

[paapiman]

no worries,..your maaf ;)  lol

Thanks bro.

Bhul chuk maaf

[das]

On ‎8‎/‎13‎/‎2015 at 0:22 PM, Lucky said:

but there is also significance of 5 digits on each side of our body on hands and feet

Yes, Five is required to move Seven to Twelve in Space. So, here is the complete (not so complete) picture for the basis of Astrology:

• Seven is a clue for everything that happens in Time. 7 comes from 3+4 (3 gunas + 4 elements). i.e 7 Traditional planets; 7 Major Chakras; 7 Rishis, and so on.
• Twelve is a clue for all things that co-exist in space. 12 comes from 3*4 (play of 3 gunas with 4 basic elements in Space). These are the twelve basic points with which everything in space is connected. It is possible to find the right way by connecting the spatial relationship of everything that occurs upon the earth with twelve permanent points in space — the twelve signs of the Zodiac in the cosmos.
• Five is required to move Seven to Twelve in Space.
• And there is always certain relation between the numbers Seven and Twelve, and that this relation has something to do with time and space. Time is revealed according to the number Twelve.

[paramnam]

this is prana and apana mixing. negative and positive blend. polarities blend to merge with the divine. the purpose of Hatha yoga sun and moon blend and kundalini rises we go beyond polarity. no need to get into the asrtology. all inside

[jaikaara]

On 8/13/2015 at 11:28 PM, paapiman said:

Bro, Rikhi Bhrigu jee Maharaaj introduced this field of study, so that Brahmans could make a living out of it. There is nothing wrong, if a Astrologer charges for his services; even doctors, dentists, etc get paid for their services. As long as the Astrologer is not duping people. it should be fine.

Bhul chuk maaf

who told you so ? He has done his own study and created a database of planetary combination charts known as Kundalis ..this is a like a research paper and the intent was not commercial. Is there any reference that Bhrigu Rishi went to the brahmans to tell them hey guys take this database and charge people to predict their future ?
 

[Guest guest]

On 13 August 2015 at 9:55 AM, paapiman said:

Can someone please explain the meaning of this tuk, from astrological perspective? Daas might be wrong, but it seems like astrological terms are used in this tuk. 

Request: There might be many more arths of this tuk, but can we please focus on one arth in this topic. 

ਪਸਰੀ ਕਿਰਣਿ ਰਸਿ ਕਮਲ ਬਿਗਾਸੇ ਸਸਿ ਘਰਿ ਸੂਰੁ ਸਮਾਇਆ ॥ (ANG 1332)

The rays of light spread out, and the heart-lotus joyfully blossoms forth; the sun enters into the house of the moon

Thanks

Bhul chuk maaf

 these are yoga references, not astrology

[paapiman]

On 7/11/2016 at 2:01 AM, jaikaara said:

who told you so ? He has done his own study and created a database of planetary combination charts known as Kundalis ..this is a like a research paper and the intent was not commercial. Is there any reference that Bhrigu Rishi went to the brahmans to tell them hey guys take this database and charge people to predict their future ?
 

Paaji, Brahmans were cursed by Mata Lakshmi jee. She said that she will never visit them, which meant that they will face shortage of money (Mata Lakshmi jee is the Goddess of wealth). That was one of the main reasons that Rishi Bhrigu jee developed this field of study(Astrology), through which Brahmans could earn a living.

 

Bhul chuk maaf

[jaikaara]

10 hours ago, paapiman said:

Paaji, Brahmans were cursed by Mata Lakshmi jee. She said that she will never visit them, which meant that they will face shortage of money (Mata Lakshmi jee is the Goddess of wealth). That was one of the main reasons that Rishi Bhrigu jee developed this field of study(Astrology), through which Brahmans could earn a living.

 

Bhul chuk maaf

whosoever told you this is talking haywire...Bhrighu ji is one of the early Saptarishis..what connection would be between him and the brahman 'jaati' ?

Brahmans as a jaati are later formation.

[tva prasad]

On ‎17‎/‎07‎/‎2016 at 3:16 PM, jaikaara said:

whosoever told you this is talking haywire...Bhrighu ji is one of the early Saptarishis..what connection would be between him and the brahman 'jaati' ?

Brahmans as a jaati are later formation.

http://bhrigusamhita.co.in/history.htm

try reading this, bro. It will answer ur question.