Malwe Da Sher

Vah, I believe Prof. Darshan Singh sang this at the funeral of Baba Isher Singh Ji, anyone have that recorded?

http://www.tribuneindia.com/2007/20070306/punjab.htm

There were some in the Ajit - from either the 4th or the 5th of March. It would be good if anyone could get hold the edition.

True say TSingh I agree 100% with what you have written. Yet i dont think someone who openly does parchar against jhatka, degh etc, is anti-raagmala would be offered a pharla. God knows whats going on within the Dals these days, however, I think it can be said for sure that he wasnt offered one from Budha Dal. On a side note regarding the large number of underving nihang singhs wearing farlay, I know Baba Surjit Singh recently passed thruogh our area in Punjab on their way to holla at Anandpur Sahib. There was a Nihang Singh who wore a farla who would sit by one of the train tracks selling sukha in its various form and playing cards with his mates etc (which Farladhari Singhs arent supposed to do). The local Singhs complained to Baba Ji so they went to meet the guy by the train track, the guy found out Baba Ji was coming to see him so fled. Baba Ji has told the local Singhs to remove his farla next time anyone sees him. Baba Ji also announced that the Nihang Singh who were selling sukha on the roads of Punjab had one week to clear up. Otherwise when the Dalpanth was passing back through the region after holla they would be 'taking care of' any Singh found to be selling sukha on the streets. Whilst I have no personal problem with Navreet Singh I think it would be preety awful if someone who doesnt even believe in raagmala was given a farla, let alone his other views. He would undoubtedly find tremendous support from the large gatherings of akjs around him, however, I really doubt the Dalpanth Singhs in the UK would recognise any authority of his farla. Was a reason given by Sikh Sangat admins for taking the thread down?

did anyone see it before it went down?

I have never heard any Nihang Singh refer to maharaj as 'Akali Nihang' Guru Gobind Singh. Its just not something they dont know. Infact I was told off by Nihang Singhs for doing so before and the reason was this: Akali Nihang is the title given to a Singh who has a farla, you cannot give the same title as a Sikh as you give the Guru. Although maharaj may have dress in the attire worn by Nihang Singhs and lived the lifestyle that Nihang Singhs now try to live, they maintain firm distinctions between Guru and Sikh. again, I have never heard a single Nihang Singh in from any Dals in India refer to maharaj with the title Akali Nihang; I dont know why some websites do it. Then again I havent met and spoken to every nihang singh in the world about it, just some of the main ones form Buhda Dal. Niranjana a good point you make about questioning how groups were created. One thing however that I do wish to say is that the 'sanatan' view isn't the norm for nihang singhs. Whilst they do believe in 'puratan' sikhi, I feel that the general consensus of views of nihang singhs on certain issues does not always correspond to what is on www.sarbloh.info The only jathas that Nihang Singhs are very scepicle of are those formed during/after the British Raj - perhaps due to the points you mentioned.

yeah i looked briefly but couldnt find it, do you know what page its on? (sorry yes it is a bit lasy of me) ;p

Gurfateh Can anyone give me a reference to the Managalcharan recited by Budhadal Taksal, Damdami Taksal and other sampradava before starting katha. The one that starts my remember the 10 Gurus. I think i have bee told that its in Sooraj Parkash Granth however I have been unable to find it. It would be good if someone could upload it or give me a reference where to find it - its beautiful. Thanks. Akaal

Baba Anoop Singh was the garvaee of Jathedar Baba Sahib Singh Kaladhari. He served him for many many years and was also by his side when teja bhashuaria and the british took over the Akal Takht (his eye witness account is somewhat different to the glorious romaticised tale made up by akj and tapobanis). He was exclusively a paathi within Budha Dal, under the reign of Baba Chet Singh and Baba Santa Singh he served as a senior paathi. He is very well respected within the Dalpanth as he has serving the khalsa since the early part of the last century. He is also known as a sorrma and his credited with having fought for good causes,including fighting for the right of Sikhs to wear shastar more than 9 inch ( a law introduced by british and malech sikh, main opponent was baba sahib singh). He has extensive knowledge of Gurbani, Sikh history and puratan maryada. Im sure others will be able to add more.

I dont think the original purpose of this thread will be addressed unless someone personally asks nidar singh and then lets the sangat know. You could try emailing the webmaster of their websites.

With all due respect to Chatanga i do not think you know enough about Nihang Singhs to make such claims. I have met many Nihang Singhs and know of many Nihang Singhs who have fought for many noble causes. Why not visit the jails in Punjab and interview them, you will see that there is still many who are willing to give all for rightousness. See please refrain from making such bold and broadly categorising comments without having conducted decent research.

Im sure it is mentioned in one historical text that Baba Ajit Singh was married and he had a son named 'Hathi Singh' (I think). However, as I am not sure of where i read it and have not come across enough evidence to suggest that Baba Ajit Singh was married, i will neither argue for or against. It is not something I personally have heard from any nihang singh that i have had discources with. The differences within the Taksal and Budha dal undoubtedly started after Baba Kartar Singh became successor. Sant Baba Gurbuchan Singh had very close relations with Baba Sahib Singh (who has been praised by Baba Kartar Singh) and therefore Baba Chet Singh. Senior and elderly Nihang Singhs within the Budha Dal have said to me that when Baba Kartar Singh became jathedar he distanced himself from the Budha Dal and that he did not like. Unlike his predecessors he was not close with the jathedar of Budha Dal. I believe that the 'excommunication' of Baba Santa Singh was down to very very dirty politics being played by the people who benefited and now enjoy power (work it out) and theoretically nothing short of a joke. However, credit be given to Baba Ji for accepting a tankah for the unity of the panth. Also, a video posted by Freed Paji shows the Akal Rakht being reconstructed by Nihang Singh - not Bhaieeai from UP. Lets look at the present situation: 1. Baba Santa Singh accepted into the mainstream Sikh fold and Blabir Singh etc give up their claims, baba ji is accepted as being the jathedar of budha dal and therefore dalpanth. 2. Taksal (Baba Harnam Singh) and Budha Dal working closely together, particuarly in promotion of Sri Dasam Guru Granth Sahib. 3. Sant Jarnail Singhs return no longer an issue for the majority of people. 4. Baba Surjit Singh has been announced as the new jathedar of the Khalsa Panth. Primarily due to the joint efforts of Budha Dal and bhindra mehta, I do not think anti-mehta views from UK Nihangs or anti-nihang view from Uk Taksalis have any purpose.

interesting story, others say akali phula singh took what he needed from runjit singh treasury and got the durbar sahib guilded - with no regards what so ever to runjit singh.

cheers singh

come on freed surely at least you must have a picture

I would also like to know how to get pictures on the threads.

Baba Jis katha is phenomenal, I believe he recieved the majority of his religous education from the great scholar Brahmgiani Akali Nihang Baba Mit Singh who passed away in the 1940s.

http://www.gurmatveechar.org/audio/katha/B...antar.Nirna.mp3 this katha is prety fantastic and I recommend that all listen to it. Can anyone tell me a little about Baba Hari Singh? where hes from and where he recieved his education etc. He talks briefly of the udasi samprada in his katha.

you are misinformed about Binod Singh.

Arthyas ripping of jatts... thats sounds about right lol.

Kashmir difinetely, and theres atleast one in Haryana. They used to have a website site years ago, i tried calling the phone numbers that they had given unsuccessfully.

Yas Rattan Singhs accounts may have some inaccuracies in it due to being written year afterwards. However, all of his information was recieved from his elders, some of whom were contemporary of Banda, He was the son of Bhai Mehtab Singh - the Singh who beheaded Mussa Rangarh. Rattan Singh was also later shaheed. So: 1. there is no reason for him to write lies. 2. there may be some inaccuracies but im sure the fact that many chapters in panth parkash describe what happened with tat and bandai sikhs means that they were actual events. While there may be MINOR inaccuracies, he cant have made the events up. The famous point that usually comes up at this point(as with other places when something tremendously contradicts what an individual believes) is that the Hindus got hold of it and edited it and then aliens came to mars who destroyed all of the ligit ones. It should also be noted that the Bandi Khalsa still exist, i have details of a few of their deras. And the believe in Banda Bahadur as a Guru and they have had a continued lineage of gurus which still exists till present day - all leaders being form the blood line of banda bahadur.

from what i know Binod Singh was nominated by Maharaj as the Jathedar of the panj pyare. Binod Singh left Banda Bahadur because he was ordered to by Mata Sahib Deva. As far as I am aware he did not die with Banda Bahadur. In regards to the shaheedi of baaj singh and others, its should be noted that after catching banda bahadur and members of the bairagi khalsa, on their way back they gathered as many sikhs as the could, from villages, towns, encampments etc. Im not saying that Baaj Singh was one of them, just something to think about.

In reply to vidaydeep singhs post regarding the taksalis, i (personally) see the taksalis as having become almosts a middle point between niihang singhs and the nirmalas. While the have many similar practises to the nihang singhs, and place great emphasis on education, there ways seem to be inbetween the two. However Sant Gurbuchan Singh is often considered to be a magnificent scholar of nirmala samprada, however he was also well respected by nihang singhs and prior to partition was given authority by baba chet singh to issue nihang singhs licenses. perhaps this is what leads people to claim that he has roots as a nihang singh. later while sant kartar singh spoke ver highly of baba sahib singh kaladhari he did weaken the relationship with the budha dal - one which appears is now growing under new leadership. I didnt meet any taksalis in India accusing nihang singhs of siding with congress, i saw brotherly relationship with nihang singhs and taksali singhs (particuarly of boprai taksal). this has lead me to the conclusion that these view were largely propogated by individuals outside of india who claim links with taksal.

if you search the sikh samprada section you will find threads regarding the origin of the nirmalas.