Mekhane'ch Jannat

Kharag Singh you are stating the second stage of reading bani. Before a person can understand the second stage, he must fully understand the first stage which is the grammar of gurmukhi. The experiences of reading bani with the 'heart' can be related incorrectly and cause harm to fellow gurmukhs if you have not completed the first stage of bani education. There are are also third fourth fifth etc. stages of 'knowing' bani, for a complete understanding of bani you must endeavour to complete each stage fully.

Wishing another person well through ardas, will no doubt have a positive effect on the person, as wishing harm on a person will have a negative effect. But what will be the efffect on an individual? only he/she will know. Each person has a duty to guard his or her psychological purity, emotional attachment makes the mind dirty. So really and truly to wish a person well takes much hard work in acquiring self knoweldge. But I agree a collective ardas is an exceptional thing, even if done fakely. But to reiterate the individual who wants mukti must always be on guard - sarvdhan ekagar chit - there are differnt rules for different people, but good wishes towards others undoubtedly helps others, but this 'help' must come from somewhere, and if you are at a certain stage to give this 'help' may be done in ignorance. The more shaktee you have the more careful you have to be,

simran and meditation create energy, for you to use. more simran will enable you to learn gurbani faster. You can get many siddhi, (powers) from simran, which must be used to further knowledge of atam gyaan through self enquiry and shabad - vichaar. But the real question to you is 'why do you want to do simran' maybe you want to make yourself more relaxed, so you can interact better with people, or many other reasons. Few are those who in their heart wish to be 'spiritual' which means annihilation. Do you want to do simran to die for your annhilation? If not just do a bit of simran and don;t overdo it just do it to make yourself feel better. MAny sants, even Jesus, who had ripe karmas, whose sanskars (subconscious forms) were well prepared by previous work, went through dark troubled periods, periods of despair, what must lie in front of us? I do not wish to scare you, but the scale of this work enormous, only the true warriors can face their inner demons. It is not said for nothing that the path of Sikhi is sharper than a sword and finer than a hair, and this does not mean it is hard to get up in the morning and tie a pagh. If you really wish to be spiritual you must be willing to make extreme efforts, your will must be made of iron, you have to make yourself impervious to everything, and for this you have to burn.

its obvious, gurbani is a means to destroy haumai. even helping people 'internally' is haumai. But helping people outside - seva - is good, as long as you do not do seva inside, in other words if you think or pray to help someone you are doing seva internally to haumai. If you do simran inside and do seva outside this is better. Gurbani tells us all is the atma, so to pray to help someone, is delusion, how can the atma pray to itself to make itself better when there is nothing wrong with it in the first place. BUT this in inside, outside we must help everyone impartially. Matheen answer me this, if a jeev cannot clean anant janama dee maal from himself, how can he help any other jeev. I cannot teach you how to play cricket if i don't know the rules of the game. So if you really want to help others first you must help yourself otherwise you can help superficially, which is also okay.

no you cannot. Imagine The energy you need to expend to learn gurbani, multiply this a million fold and this is how much energy you need to progress 'spiritually'. If you cannot put energy into learning gurbani, then similiarly you must not have the energy to progress 'spiritually' Furthermore, how do you know how you are progressing, if the map you are following is made by someone who has never been to the 'place' but has simply made a map from 'hearing' about it. more than likely progress will actually be delusion. You must not set forth upon anything until you know what you are doing, or if someone is guiding you. In this case Gurbani is your guide so you must read and fully aim to comprehend the essence of gurbani, this entails learning gurbani. It is always easy to see those who seriously want to change - they will learn anything, those who just want to fit in somewhere, will make all kinds of excuses for their laziness. Usually applying the argument 'In Sikhi you do not need to learn anything for mukti, or learning will not get you mukti'

you can only help if you have atam-gyaan, if you have no knowledge of the atma you cannot do anything. YOu can only do things to yourself, as you said only pooran brahmgyanis can 'help' others. You can physically help by sending flowers etc, but in term of prayers, how can an individual who is stuck in the muck of maya, help another when he has not helped himself. Help as much as you can outwardly, do anything for her, but inwardly always work for your own mukti.

does this imply that the jeev cannot become one with god, in the sense that the jeev cannot be god. Even though agampur is his original home, nijaghar, from where he was fractioned off from. Although the jeev can become one with god in that he becomes god in minature, in his body. THe jeev cannot be god of the universe. So a jeev can become the likeness of god, meaning he dwells in agampur. What are the view of others Can a jeev become god of the universe? Does the jeev mirror god in his own body therefore becoming a likeness of god? Does the jeev become god in his own body and therefore become one with god?

Matheen is right if someone wants to enjoy let them enjoy, our guru does not cause people to repress their need for enjoyment. But if you want something more you must do certain things.... Paji my kids will go through narak i also feel sorry for them, nevermind i will allow them a ladoo as a treat once in a while.

there is only one dogma in sikhi and that is to sacrifice everything to learn in order to be mukt. Smash up your wii (in your mind) and never play it. Make it a sacrifice to your satguru, if you never touch it even if you really want to, satguru will give you anant shaktee, which you must use to gain higher knowledge, not for maya. People who do these things stop themselves doing things they like Satguru makes there mind firm and gives them jewels.

nothing but mental masturbation, you should spend your time learning instead of playing this shit, you are supposed to be sikhs after all. Or is it that if you have the roop of a singh and make a bit of noise it is okay to do anything and live undisciplined lives. How can a sikh play GTA a game where you kill people indiscriminately i think it is sickening and only someone with durbuddhi a perveted intellect would play such a game.

i'd reverse it and say in all relationships with friends see god and thank god for having friends, and when a person is afraid, learn why god is giving you fear, he makes me fear to teach me. to limit god to a friend or to be fearful to god makes a murti of friend or of fear. In other words if you are not careful you will project friendliness or fear on maya instead of god inside, and as with most people who aspire to god we are half with god and half with maya. God can only be a friend to a brahmgyani us others can only praise god in the variety of our experiences and pray for ekargartha.

Islam judaism christianity is one path they are essentialiy the same, people of the book. The indic/asiatic initiatory tradition is another path, but there is some overlap. Sikhi is part of the third path, which springs up in places when oppresion becomes overbearing. The light of gods name, burns with intensity to dispel the oppression, and then dies down. In my opinion the third path appears all throughout human history when darkness/ignorance becomes too strong. No doubt the third path will come again in more strength.

If the law clashes with Sikhi Rehat then the only means to combat it is to fight it lawfully or emigrate. OR to go hardcore ultra terrorist and rebel against the whole lot - total anarchy, Acting through any other means, means you will not be taken seriously. These days you have to fight clever otherwise if you go in with a punjabi shere attitude you will end up chasing your own tail trying to bite it off. I would like to hold this attitude but i have been burned to many times trying to be like that, the system is corrupt and sly, we have to fight the battles of Guru Gobind Singh Ji in a different way now.

The sikh equivalent of sharia law is obeying the laws of the country he or she lives in.

you are right brother, it is an imaginary fabrication - the best type of fabrication, in the future i will have to get my facts right so my fabrications don't get spotted :wink:

Actually the maya prophecised their own destruction, or rather the King acted in order to overcome the prophecy, but in so acting he caused the prophecy to happen. http://www.amazon.co.uk/Time-Highland-Maya...d=13T1BMFB6Y1QF a good book on maya if you are interested Nothing is written in stone, '2012' is a metaphorical year, the significance of the year is not in its dimension as time, but its closeness. By this I mean people FEEL as though we are close to the brink. So to put a major catastrophe about 4 years away shows people, are not presently living correctly. If doomsday was said to be in 100 years time, the world would be a realtively good place, if 100000 years time then it would be near satjug, I despise the linear one dimensional thinking somewhat epitomised in vinegars post, horizontal i believe someone called it, real events or political events are pale shadows compared to the truer world of ideas.

The idols referred to by our Guru's are not the ones made from stone, a hindu may worship an idol but be free from 'idol worship' whereas some sikhs who worship akaal worship their internal idols everyday while reading bani.

'life' after death is how you hhave really lived your life. If you spent your life engrossed in a multitude and variety of sense objects, your existence after death will merge into nothingness, the abyss of pure materiality. If you do bhagti the strength of the bhagti and depending on how dirty you are, you will attain closeness to HIM. So if you do a little bit of bhagti you will suffer more with your dirt, than if you did none. Which is why many people do not bother with real self enquiry. the amount of dirt left on the jeev is what toremnts him after death, because he cannot change like in human birth. He has to see all his buried dirt, his devils. Also his angels are his anubhav gyaan which slay the demons but they can only be gained through human life suffereings. After the play of afterlife the demons and angels merge and take birth

This fellow is using you people for experiments, and you idiots reply to what he says if your faith was strong you would not even reply - Gurbani does not need to be 'protected' or proclaimed from the rooftops that it is the best 'and come and be saved O damned souls of kaljug'! This is pure infantile egoism wishing to protect what is'yours'. I don't care what people say about gurbani, or cast aspersions on it, those who are magnetised or pulled towards it are pulled by the Guru himself, in fact more doubts and aspersions that are cast on Gurbani the better because only the pure of heart who the Guru attracts will have that unbreakable faith, those who know the truth of bani in their heart all that matters is the personal relationship. this fellow is doing a service by weeding out the unfaithful, he asks little questions and provides little doubts and you fools get up in arms about it, your all a bunch of fools. He is subtle he has tested you and you have made an idol of gurbani, but thats human nature, even the purest teachings become assimilated into the profane, only those who meet the satgur inside can animate bani otherwise it becomes assimilated into the profane. The inner middle and outer circles - the outer begins to encroach on the inner - the inner must change to prevent annhilation. The outer dogma - in this case esoteric teachings - become a code to hold onto, when in actual fact their functions' as symbols is to destroy -falseness- The outer cannot be represented by gurbani as its function as the the inner which is to destroy loses its meaning to a certain extent. Gurbani is direct route to akaal, islam christianity are direct routes within indirect routes, more sophistication is required to get to a similar point -the tawil. The symbols in these traditions are protected by the outer but their middle and inner meanings are quite different. This protects the inner 'destruction of falseness' from profanity in two ways 1. by preserving the symbols 2. through tawil preventing the symbols from exterior profanity. Now gurbani has no tawil because it is superior -direct to akaal- so to put gurbani in the outer circle is not good.

baD very bad, not for today.

just to add big haumai can be called residual haumai after the experience of sabh gobind hai, you are the atma but the ego lingers. you have 2 ego's, but all is one all is bliss.

thanks for the corrective post brother, the english language is good for discussing the weather and not much else. So let me clear up my definitions, in order to destroy any confusion and ambiguity. Haumai in the quote from Baba Nanak, I agree, refers to the enveloping sheath of the broader mind. And buddhi is the 'cure'. So the big Haumai (broader mind) becomes free from the obscuring small ego, which comprimises of an individuals small desires etc. So when the small ego (hankar) has been eradicated and we are left with, through discrimination, a purified buddhi--- the fabled chains of gold, the binds of a sattvic intellect. This sattvic intellect is the closest experience of paramatma, in the false. In other words something still obscures the 'seeing' or the 'being' This is what I mean by an unpurified ego, the ego remains untranscended. When the ego is purified it is accepted into the atma, knowledge dawns of the pervasion of consciousness. Here I think is where the crux of the matter is, for me knowledge of the atma does not come about by destruction of the big Haumai. A hole is made into the substratum of consciousness that illuminates everything including the haumai, the individuated jeev would not cerebally understand that all is god, (which is a debased understanding i might add) He would be immersed in the light of consciousness BUT still aware of his pinprick exsistence. If Haumai ceases then the world ceases, there is no world just consciousness, there is no play without the evil, the haumai and all the 25 tattva extending from it are illumined, the light of paramatma is by a sants grace descended into the gross world. I am right here looking at this, and I exist, ---- and all this is me. I believe that although when someone has pierced the mystery, the haumai is still there, but it is not identified with, but its there, it is an immutable fact of creation. A stone is a stone. Big haumai can only be purified by identifying yourself? with the unconceptual, by transcending it. It cannot be destroyed only understood.

Im glad you are a pendu because i am one too, its good to be a pendu. Pendu's are like fertile fields they are simple beings. Whatever you plant on them will grow (or not), be it ashes or beautiful crops. Modern intellectuals or wannabee intellectuals are closed they think they know everything, they are totally barren fields. But unforunately for pendu's all they seem to grow is "woman and wine" but the potential is there to become a devta. Moderns are dead inside, i hate modern intellectuals and moderns generally. Sorry to go on. Man or ego should not be killed, Guru Nanak say Haumai dirag rog hai DAROO BHI IS MAHI. The haumai that has to be killed is that which comprimises of the panj chor who lut your house while you are asleep to gods name. Gods name is the light which guards your house. Gods name makes you a good swimmer. The ego should be in the service of the satguru 24 hours a day. The satguru is a touchstone which converts the maggot ridden shitty ego to one of pure gold. Sabh gobind hai sabh gobind hai is too far for most of us. Understand your sh*t first then purify tap yourself then polish your ego then maybe when every speck of sh*t is taken off your ego can you say sabh gobind hai sabh gobind hai PERMANENTLY. I digress back to the point. Knowledge of god is not only up or one way. It is down as well. When you expand towards god you expand the other way as well i.e. you see the sh*t more clearly as well. Other peoples as well as your own sh*t. For liberation in the world, this knowledge has to be known. Liberation in the world is the best type. To know your own ego is paramount, if you don't the chor could be in your house fornicating with your wife despoiling her. DOn't be scared of your own mind you have to know the bad part of you just don't feed it, not to feed it you need to know it. To know and understand all the chors in your house is to be protected against them. This is a perfect swimmer, a perfected ego. This ego is illumined with gods name, his desire he selects, his desire is HIS(GODS) desire. He only acts for the one. But his ego is not dead but it is cleaned. Ego is part of mind, man buddhi ahankar. It is all one. mind is made from the atma. Mind is the atma. But it is dirty. The atma is dirty clean the atma with gods name which is also the atma. Clean your-self with yourself. But these days kids are real psychopaths sikhs muslims gora whatever too much sh*t and they are closed not open like pendu's --well some are anyway.

The 'man' cannot override his 'instinct' to swim. The initial observation is that the observer wishing to kill the ego is a desire of the ego, yet another member of the legion that makes up the 'ego'. Man must always swim because that is his job, otherwise he would not get to pass the baton on to other swimmers, who carry on the job of swimming through the milky ocean of creation upon whom vishnu sits. The man liberated in the world cannot drown otherwise he cannot fulfill his worldly obligations. THere must be knowledge of the ego of what type of stroke the man uses etc. in other words man must become an expert swimmer so he glides through the water with minimum friction, he doesn't thrash about and cause discordance and chaos he causes minimum disturbance to the water. The role of the observer is not to kill the ego, but to perfectly control it. to add to the ego all the virtues that are close to god. and destroy the negative attributes, that make his swimming unsightly.

I have had similar experiences, my advice is to absolutely ignore them. They are nothing. PLease be aware that the human body has possibility for much shaktee, these illusionary events are signs of the tremendous shaktee we possess. Before creating more shaktee, i would also advise to create a firm psychological base, make sure you have digested the metaphysics of bani, and also read up on sanskriti culture and philosphy. Ask yourself why are you reading bani, what is the aim of existence, why you are here. If you do not ask yourself your subconsciouss will ask, and if you have no answer you will be in the tatee. In my mind it is a serious misconception to think that just by reading bani and doing simran without any active vichaar, it is somehow possible to become ONE with waheguru. The 'ark' or the 'boat' that is the guru by necessity these days has to be complex due to the times we live in. It needs many active parts for the individual to be carried across, although bani and simran are integral parts, without building on these foundations the average sikh cannot 'cross over'