Mekhane'ch Jannat

I don't think it ridiculous. In Satjug people ate roots and fruits from the trees, they lived in a natural, less artificial way. As the distractions of modern civilization were not present, they were not subjected, as much as later Yuga's, to the influences of Maya. Which is why it is called SATjug - the aeon of truth - because maya's influence was less at that time. As maya increased, the focus shifted towards the needs of the physical body. Because maya eats the energy of Human beings, their diet had to become stronger to give them the strength to do their work. So as Maya increases so does the need of the physical body for stronger foods like meat. So in kaljug you need to eat a lot of meat to have good strength to do work.

If human beings lived in the way they were ordained to live in, then they would not need to eat meat. In Satyug when Humans lived normally, a man who had done a wrongdoing affected the whole of humanity and animal nature, all of organic life. (In treta it became city and dwapar the family and in kalyug a man reaps himself what he sows). What this story represents is that organic life on Earth can be considered a single organism or a single animal. And Man progressively acting in a more unnatural manner with regard to the organism he is part of or in other words becoming more selfish. If organic life on Earth is an Organism it is made up of a body of Vegatative materials in this body there is animal passions or emotions typified by all animals then there is the Organism's mind, typified by Human Beings. Human Beings contain vegetative and animal, animal contains vegetative. The point of all this is that by killing animals for food or killing vegetables for food, is in effect the equivalent in the Human body of one part eating another within the same Human body. So you have to eat yourself to live. Because to kill something else to survive yourself is a very big paap, people in Satjug began to create purificatory rites through which Humans could be cleansed of this sin. These purificatory rites were Bhagti to God, through this Bhagti they were able to kill vegetables to survive in a sacred way with a pure innocent Bhagti, which cleansed them of this sin of killing part of the Organism or animal all on Earth are part of. As animals like sheep and chickens are higher than vegetables (higher meaning closer to God) In Satjug to kill an animal for food would require more purificatory rites or more Bhagti to get forgiveness. So non one killed animals for food in those times. Because as they were more aware of unity they did not want more paap on their heads. Meat eating come into vogue when people got nasha of Maya and forgot about purificatory rites and focused on 'enjoying' life. So eating just became about nutrition and physical health so as to get maximum 'enjoyments' from life.

I think they must be scared of Him, they must have heard the story of Vikramaditya the ancient King of Ujjain, who spoke slightingly of Shani Ji, saying he was useless negative fellow always doing bad things to good people. Unfortunately Shani heard him and as punishment made him lose his kingdom, become an outcaste chumar dog-eater and then to top it off had his arms and legs chopped off and then his eyes put out.

Because Shani Ji dishes out justice in retribution for our negative or bad actions. So from a personal point of view we would rather do wrong actions and not pay for them. When the chickens come home to roost than the person feels he is unlucky. Shani Ji has no mercy unlike Guru Ji who can forgive all sins, I am sure people are familiar with the Bhagat who done bhagti for 12 years sitting on a rock, when God became happy and asked him what he wanted the Bhagat said Justice. So God said OK then, now the rock will sit on your head for 12 years. This is what Shani Ji is like. So because everyone wants to be happy and have good family relations and good friendships and a happy married life, they are scared of Shani, because no-one really deserves these things they are only given to us through the Mercy of God and not from his Justice. Mercy and Justice are the two pans on the balance of the world. Shani Ji exerts a subtle influence on the mind, which is how he gets his work done. He is the reason why Ravana became destroyed. Narada Muni once came into Ravans Darbar and saw the 7 planets lying face down in his darbar, He suggested to Ravan to turn their faces upwards so they could witness Ravans glory. When Shani Ji's gaze fell on Ravan, they say his mind became perverted,which is why he went after Sita as ravan was well educated and a scholar Shani Ji destroyed Ravans discrimination with his gaze.

Comparing the two is like contrasting the difference between how the medieval europeans and modern day europeans view the stars and our solar system. Well actually they both view them in exactly the same way because we live on Earth and we see the Sun rise in the east and set in the west. The same stars make up the sky at night now as 400 years ago. The difference is not in reality but only in conception. All that seperates us from our ancestors is an act of imagination, or to use the old english word for imagination; all that seperates us is our conceit.

"The scale of how genetics and biochemistry affect our mind is unknown but points out that most of 20th century thinking is wrong." Its a debated point whether genetics and biochemistry affect mind or mind affects genetics and biochemistry. By mind I do not mean individual personal mind. There is also the field of epigenetics which rejects the 'primacy of DNA' which is the theory orthodox scientists follow. Epigenetics allows for external affects upon DNA which can change its chemical composition. The view of scientists is myopic it focuses on a certain specialism and presents this view as universal. To say most of 20th century thinking is wrong when viewed from this specialist narrow viewpoint is correct but then to project this narrow viewpoint as a universal truth is a misrepresentation. On reflection, when I think about it, to say all 20th C thought is wrong is an absolutely amazing statement to make, have you presumably read or familiarised yourself with every branch of thought conceived of in the last century? Or does it not matter because the 'key' to all knowledge has been found in genetics and biochemistry! Why most people dont understand spirituality is because it has been removed from everyday life and experience, forcibly, by scientific statements along the lines of - consciousness and human experience is caused by molecules and inert physical matter - this message which is repeated like a mantra through various media, has people doubting their own experiences, and people, maybe even experiencing objective real mental events put them down to imagination or chemical imablances or some other nonsense.

"20th century men with 20th century views. It may scare you that all their theories can now be explained by molecules within one's head but that's just the way it is. " It scares me because i understand, unfortunately, what the result of such thinking will be. I pity and feel sorry for those who follow this line of thinking to its logical conclusion, which will be nothing other than scizophrenia and schism from ones own self. The theory that all conscious thought arises from molecular combinations, will put the adherent of this mode of thought in the peculiar position of rejecting his own experience of self awareness as an epiphenomena of physical molecular structure. But due to the relative indestructability of the spiritual-self, adherents of this theory will not be able to destroy themselves immediately, but this theory will be like a saw with which the adherent saws the branch they are sitting on, until maybe after many lifetimes they are maybe successful in destroying themselves,

'but it seems a lot of our behaviour is down to genetics and neural biochemistry' comments like this scare me, Freud put all neurosis and irrational behaviour down to suppressed sex power. Now the priests of science inform us that all human behaviour can be explained by the random interaction of molecules. Another victory for the dark forces of science in the ongoing quest to estrange the Conscious Knowing Human Soul from its rightful Home, towards the chaos and randomness and chance that characterise the world we inhabit. As regards Freud I have not read his works, the little I know of him is through his former disciple CG Jung who split famously with Freud. The split occurred due to Jung realising that the unconscious part of the personality is in contact with something unrelated to the personal psyche, which he later called the collective unconscious. The collective unconscious works through archetypes or typical-forms that manifest according the personality's conceits. Freud recognised this but because he was a weak personality he was scared of this fact. And encouraged Jung to use the sexual theory as a bulwark against the black tide of occultism, by this Freud meant the hidden powerful and impersonal aspects of the psyche. Jung refused and set up his own school of analytical psychology where he used ancient myths and eastern ideas and ideas of mysticism and alchemy to help his understanding of the human psyche.

Maybe, if we can say so, that a person, may have, been given a certain amount of money. And it is left up to the person to invest this money according to his own whims and desires. There are 3 things he can do with this money: 1. Invest in some wise business ventures that will give him good profits. 2. Just keep the money and only spend on neccesities like food etc. 3. Spend the money on enjoyments drink drugs clubs etc. Only in the first case if the person is wise and has good advice from the elders as to what business will be successful, will he increase what he has been given. In the other two cases the money given will be lost. No. 2 the money will be finished when the person dies and no.3 the person may become bankrupt before he dies. In reality most people use their money in a combination of these three ways. Some people who have knowledge will make a good business investment and then use this on enjoyments, thus cancelling out the profit they have earned. And also money has to be spent on everyday things like eating etc. The truly wise use the profits they make to help and uplift other good businessmen, so good business ethics is maintained. It goes without saying if it were not for these good businessmen no one would have any money and the world would end. Another point is that the money that a person starts with is different, some people have more and some have less. Also some very rare individuals can obtain money directly from the Banker, but few are trusted with such a privelage. Also the money can be stolen so you have to be careful. Even if a person wastes all his money on enjoyments in youth, even if he has one penny left he still has the choice to invest it wisely in a profitable business, he only must have a strong wish to do so. And then this investment will give him benefits.

Thats very interesting. In a book about astronomy i read once, the day of the Devtay is from the beginning of the winter solstice until the summer solstice. Because from after the winter solstice the Sun will be gradually climb higher in the sky. At the summer solstice the Devta's night begins when the Sun begins to go down in the sky. From the winter to summer solstice is 6 months.

looks like Gurdwara Sisganj Sahib in chandni chowk

Baba Nanak spoke against superstition because it was a manifestation of human egoism and caused by ignorance of spiritual wisdom. Modern science totally rejects superstition because it cannot be proved by sensory data as perceived by our sense organs. Scientists are actually worse than the superstitious people BabaJi condemned because they worship maya purely and do not even believe in God. So to compare dawkins with Satguru Nanak, I find quite insulting and naieve, as dawkins the arch-fool does not even believe in God. In Gurbani there is a prophecy of modern scientists, they are known as Shakta durjan. Shakta is one who worships Maya only and does not know or recognise the consciousness half of shakti - Shiva. Or in other words materialists.

ਕਲਪਨਾ Means to form fashion or make something in the mind. It is interesting to note in Hindu cosmology the the act of creation is known as Srishti-Kalpana, the world is a thought in the active imagination of the creator. As Human Beings are reflections of the creator we also have this ability to create mentally. But this facility of active imagination has been corrupted in kaljug which is why Gurbani calls it an affliction. Instead of having the mental power and purity to create real forms and ideas the mind becomes wavering and starts daydreaming and thinking randomly according to any old mental associations. So there are two senses to this word one which is an active directed conscious imagining, the other; a random wandering daydreaming of thought. To read Gurbani you need kalpana shakti to be able to enter into the deep meanings contained within Gurbani.

Before the attempt to answer your main question, a caveat; that the following views are my own, from personal reading and observations and not derived from any authority in these matters, so there could be mistakes. Now my conscience is clear - - - i can say that Shabad in sanskrit means; 1. A written word. 2. sound, noise, voice, tone or note that carries a meaning intelligible to human understanding. 3. The syllable OAM. Or the word spoken by Parabrahm during creation. These correspond to Adhibautik (gross) Adhyatmik (subtle) and Adhidaivik (subtlest) We can use this base definition to consider that Shabad-Guru can be all three at the same time. Shabad-Guru in the Adhidaivik sense is the Shabad that was 'spoken' by God which created all things. A word is a vibration, which when spoken creates an effect in the listener, according to how he understands the word. So proceeding through analogy, the Shabad spoken by God creates an effect in the listener, which is primal matter, shakti or prakriti. The effect of this Shabad is the creation of all created things from Brahma to a clump of grass. A Guru speaks to his chela, so for Sikhs the actual Shabad is not Guru, but the One who pronounced it. In this sense Shabad is used in the possesive, as The Guru of the Shabad Next the Shabad-Guru can be the vocal uccharan of Gurbani which creates a subtler effect than just a written word. According to my scheme even just looking at Gurbani Akher has an effect on a person, but it is not as strong as the uccharan effect. So the Akher of Gurbani are also Shabad-Guru because they represent the Highest Adhidaivik Shabad in written form. Like a Human Being has 1.Atma-Buddhi 2.Mann-Heart 3.Physical body. Shabad-Guru also has three bodies. The Atma of Shabad-Guru is Anahad Shabad which creates all worlds, The Mann of Shabad-Guru is uccharan and Shabad-Guru's physical body are the written Akher of Gurbani. So like Sants are powered by Anahad Shabad which is unseen and unheard, but they still speak and have a body, So Shabad-Guru is powered by the Highest Nirgun Shabad but also has less subtle forms we can interact with. This is because of Kirpa that we have these less subtle forms for the udhar of jeevs.

His mercy and compassion are used to soften his anger and justice. Because without mercy and compassion HIS anger and justice would destroy us. Also Mercy and Compassion are higher than anger and justice. Hazrat Baba Nizamuddin Auliya who was the mureed of Baba Farid said the governate or province of faith and knowledge can suffer decay but not GODS governate of compassion. Because as human beings are a bit messed up they can only apply to GODS mercy not his justice because his justice would destroy them.

maybe its a fake test, like a trick There was a story of someone who done a degree. But when he got involved in worldly work he forgot that he was qualified and became a labourer, just to make ends meet. After carrying on in this fashion as a manual labourer, he thought one day that he should get a degree and break out of this cycle of hard manual work. So he studied and was tested as to his knowledge about this degree that he had previously already completed. He worked very hard and in the end got the degree that he already had. In the news, where I read this story, they said this human being was very strange because he was tested and worked very hard for something that he already knew. What a strange person!

So you do not believe the khands as enumerated by Baba Nanak in the Holy Japji, are not literal explanations of reality? Sachkhand is a 'State of Existence' if you prefer these words rather than place. Or rather the Existence or Being that existencises all other beings. This Great Being of beings is on a higher plane of existence than our own existence. As levels of being or existence interpenetrate one another every level can be known but each level operates in a certain sphere, which sphere cannot be accesed whilst incarnated. In ordinary language rather than speaking like a highly technical philosopher using specialised language, it is better to say Sachkhand is a place very far from Earth. The words 'far' and 'place' used in this sense have a different meaning than their spatio-temporal meaning. If you -don't- view Sachkhnand as a place you can go towards as a literal place of great Joy and Happiness, then i with great sorrow wish you a happy existence in your intellectual abstractations. Asuras do not worship God even though Gods' essence existentiates all beings in the cosmos, many beings refuse to worship God. Look out your window and see how many people who refuse to believe in God. Asuras are a race of beings who worship their own desires and do not wish to help God in the operation of the cosmos. Only some asuras who overcome their inherent nature like Prehlaad and Bali, can worship God. Asuras impel people to go to prostitutes have affairs drink and take drugs, by affecting the mind of the person, they are ethereal made of mental substance.

Even in Sikhism there is a notion of evil. Doing Simran, reading Gurbani are seen as Good activities, the opposite is seen as bad or evil. Maybe the Nemesis known as Satan exists within the unity of God. As me and you and all Humans are capable of acts which are, so to speak, against God, is it not conceivable that a Being of a higher order, a deva, rebelled in this way? Sikhism accepts the existence of Devas and other spiritual beings, that influence human events, but in Sikhism they are put in their correct place as servants of the Guru, and not worshipped to get worldly benefits. Christianity is a very good and holy religion which has been corrupted and misintepreted, maybe because the nemesis got scared that through this religion people may find out his plans so he had to destroy it. Christianity can be viewed correctly through the lens of Sikhism. There is a Hindu saying "what is here, is there, what is not here is nowhere" -here- means the body. So if heaven and hell and God and the devil can be found in the body, because everything is connected, they must exist elsewhere in their own sphere. We know God exists in Sachkhand. As all interpenetrates all and all is connected, we on Earth or in Dharamkhand, can know, have khaber, of God, who has His place of residence in Sachkhand not here on Earth.

Jannat I think you may have possibly misread/misunderstood the above text? Yes, probably, just ignore what I wrote. And read this instead http://www.drcranton.com/nutrition/oiling.htm

This is complete mumbo-jumbo nonsense. I take issue with the whole 'creating reality' nonsense. Firstly man cannot create reality arbitrarily according to his own will. This article makes no mention that there is a great Law that governs creation. The Ancient Hindus called it Rta, dharam was part of Rta. Even devtay are under the power of Rta. This is the same as Babaji's -- Hukam -- There can never be anything apart from this Law. To understand aspects of this Law a person must be initiated by the Satguru, then use his own individual will to follow this Law in Thoughts Words and Deeds. Only when a person has proved his fidelity to his Lord, then he may be allowed to 'create reality'. This article makes it seem that anybody with no preparation or hard work and most of all *Gunn-virtues* can create reality. What type of reality would such an irresponsible person create, probably a nightmare. In Dharam Khand the unripe are tested to become ripe and then when properly ripened and cooked are ready to serve (God). This office of 'creating reality' is a very high office only for a few, e.g. not every person is willing to study hard for 10 years to become a doctor, can some person just sit at home and 'create reality' by thinking he is a doctor and become a doctor? Another scary thing about this article is that it goes on about new perceptual markers and ideas. "Thoughts and beliefs you have placed in the heaven of your consciousness". This is dangerous nonsense. People can of course choose what ideas and beliefs they wish to follow. If people choose beliefs that are not in accordance with Rta or Hukam than the ideological structure will crumble into non-being maybe the in dweller will also be destroyed. Ideas like Marriage, respecting parents, not harming others are good to follow because they reflect the Rta or general Laws on which the whole Universe is built. Compassion is a cosmic law. If a person chooses to do act without compassion he goes against cosmic order and Hukam and therefore must suffer. So you cannot create new ideas and beliefs, you can only give new shape to very old traditional beliefs. If some sants have not followed moral order this is because they have become subject to a law of higher order and are not bound by normal morals but become Proofs of these morals.

Pardon me for going off topic but I just read and article about food specifically about butter, animal fats and oil, and i'd like to spread it about. http://www.drcranton.com/nutrition/oiling.htm Traditional punjabi high fat diet may actually be very good for you!!

Until we move from rural pendu-centrism to more sophisticated, educated worldviews we wont truly progress as a society. What type of progress will it be? I would much rather prefer pendu-centrism than modern hygienically sterilised so called educated world views. These modern educated worldviews that I am a great enemy of can be found discussed in this essay: http://www.columbia.edu/cu/augustine/arch/lewis/abolition1.htm i would encourage all to read it as i consider it to be a good indicator of the future.

So your message is to take no action because we can do nothing? No not at all, but if we realise we can do nothing, then everything that needs to be done gets done. This is karam yog, easy for me to write about but very difficult to put into action. Basically from what little i know the higher has to come into the lower. Imagine a world full of two types of people, one type blind and the others cripples who cant move. The cripples know where to go but cannot move and the blind people don't know where to go but can move. The blind people can 'do things' but for their actions to have meaning they must be directed by the inert cripples who have vision. But because all the cripples are shouting at the blind people "go left" "go right" etc. the blind get confused and follow contradictory instructions. But it sometimes happens a blind person grabs a cripple with vision and puts him on his shoulders. Now the blind person has a personal guide who can tell him how to get things, by directly whipsering instructions in his ear. So instead of aimlessly wandering about trying to get fruit from a tree by listening to the shouting of contradictory instructions, the man with the cripple on his shoulders goes directly to the fruit.

There is no solution. Kaj rau hai anjum when the stars become angry towards us it is best to sit in the earth and pour dust on our heads and utter cries of lamentation. A machine is wound up, it cannot be unwound but must complete its movement. Only pure tyagis who are out of maya can influence maya and do things Anything else is just an unconscious movement of the machine, dictated by external accidents. The whole world moves in chakers which is why the movement always turns into its opposite. Movements for peace turn into wars Movements to un-westernise apneean will cause more westernised apneean To complete a movement in a straight line you have to be a Siddha, which means 'he who completes his aim' If you are not a Siddh Purush then you will always go in circles in chakers. The thing you want to accomplish will turn into its opposite. This is the rule. Sometimes an aim will be achieved but this will be by accident not conscious design.

So you would be happy for female members of your family to dress in this way? Sorry for being provocative but what you say does not make sense. Man is made to be attracted to woman. There is an art known as shringaar or eroticism when women will dress in ways to stimulate men. This is all well and good in its correct sphere of usage. This lady is dressed in a way that most males would find very attractive. The image she is giving out by wearing this dress is not in harmony with what she is talking about. This is an issue of correct manners. It is akin to mixing whisky with pure milk. Most western people have become dense and thick with regards to what things are correct and incorect. A normal pendu is on higher level then most westerners because they still have inherent morality and instinctively know good from bad, even though because of prevelant trends and internal weakness they follow the bad. Westerners have had this organ of natural morality removed and they think this is a real advance because they are not affected by things as simple people are. Well i say westerners aren't affected by things because they have become dense and thick, but in a clever way. The mental organ of westerners has become insenstive or desensitized, which is why they cannot perceive wrong things, because they are not sufficently aware of their own surroundings, they live in an intellectual mist, and their feelings are atrophied. Morality and manners come predominantly from feelings not intellectualisations.