amardeep

bump

try yogi tea from the US.. My gora collegue recommended it, later on I found it it was made by the 3HO lol

has the contrary 

And Brahmin 

It is also important to notice that 'Sikh political theory' consists of two levels. Civil society (the practice of everyday Singhs) and the political (the practice at governmental level).
These two ARE NOT THE SAME. Sikhs at civil society level keep their rahit by paying daswandh, practice nitnem, keep their kesh, train shastars, do not lie etc. On a political and governmental level there is nothing to suggest that the same 'rules' apply in the sense that it becomes mandatory law for all to do nitnem and pay daswandh and if people do not do so, they will get punished for it.  Notions of rahit, daswandh etc apply at the civil level, - not political.  Should a sikh state forbid people to cut their hair?
I've never really come across any source that mixes the two levels such that it should become state law to arm the entire population. What Sikhs do at a personal level should not always translate into state level.

And Brahmin 

Also in terms of Sikh history, the shastardhari aspect adapts to society. Guru Hargobind armed the Sikhs and raised an army because it was needed for warfare. During the tenure of the next three Gurus this army was slowly by slowly decreasing and then once the need arose it was again reassembled by Guru Gobind Singh Maharaj. Guru Har Rai kept an army of 2200 soldiers (small compared to the army of Guru Har Gobind) but there is no indication of any standing army of significant size during the rule of Guru Har Krishan and Guru Tegh Bahadur Maharaj. So in essence, the shastardhari notion can adapt to the circumstances of society in terms of what suits the Sikhs, and the people at large, the best.

I usually dont find it motivating to participate in a conversation where people put words in my mouth or misrepresent what im saying. Whats the point in debating a complex topic of national security if its narrowed into being afraid or not?
But here is my take on it. America has a liberal weapons legislation and is THE ONLY western country in the world where you have frequent mass shootings and massacres taking place at schools, cinemas etc. There is no other country in the western world where tens of thousands of people are killed by guns within a few years.The easy acces to weapons means that conflicts quickly escalate. A conflict that would end up in fist fights in Europe will usually end with shootings in America. The problem is such that you can legally bring your guns into the cinema but you can't bring your own candy and popcorn!!
To my knowledge, Canada is a fairly peacefull country but they have the same problems as all other socities ie. depression, mental illnesses, xenophobia, hate crimes etc. By flooding the country with weapons you'll create US circumstances and violence will most likely escalate. Again, there is no other country in the Western world where you see such widespread violence as in the US!
For me it is not about fear. It is about responsobility. Sikhs of Canada are not a temporary minority only there to work and then head home to retire. Sikhs of Canada have been there for a century and will stay for many more centuries. For that reason they have a great responsobility in keeping the country stable and secure, and the decrease of widespread violence and gun violence is one such aspect. I dont see it as a gurmat practice to contribute to the flooding of weaponry in a non-violent, peaceful society thereby increasing the risk of fatal violence.
In terms of Sikhi, I assume there are gun training clubs in Canada as in Europe where Sikhs and other shastardhari Singhs can go and develop/train their skills as well as procedures of how to attain weapons legally in your own home. I know that is the case in many European countries (and oddly enough I know only one Singh in Europe who has actually done weapon training!!)
 
The whole "Yudh karai tab shant" ideology in Sikhi is in a context of opression, where the Sikhs are to arm themselves in order to fight tyranny. The ideology does not encompass flooding peacefull societies with weaponry for the sake of boosting and incresing mortality rates in case one such conflict is to happen. The whole "I better arm myself so I can defend myself against my neighbour" only means your neighbour will also arm himself.. And before you know it, everyone has weapons trying to defend themselves against everyone else.
 

That’s a rather weird way of summarising our views. 

Spot on papiman!!

I find your views interesting.  Stay and explain rather than leave when asked to explain. 

Is there even such a thing as a devta in the mythological sense as displayed in hindu tv shows with devtas with 4 arms flying in the air

ਸਾਧ ਕਰਮ ਜੇ ਪੁਰਖ ਕਮਾਵੈ ॥ ਨਾਮ ਦੇਵਤਾ ਜਗਤ ਕਹਾਵੈ ॥
साध करम जे पुरख कमावै ॥ नाम देवता जगत कहावै ॥
Because of virtuous actions, a purusha (person) is known as devta (god)

ਕੁਕ੍ਰਿਤ ਕਰਮ ਜੇ ਜਗ ਮੈ ਕਰਹੀ ॥ ਨਾਮ ਅਸੁਰ ਤਿਨ ਕੋ ਸਭ ਧਰਹੀ ॥੧੫॥
कुक्रित करम जे जग मै करही ॥ नाम असुर तिन को सभ धरही ॥१५॥
And because of evil actions, he is known as asura (demon).15.


Are'nt they just normal people ?

There is a British source from the late 1800s that says the Charitro Pakhyan teaches how to be a just ruler. Here you have a direct link between CP and rulership (rather than it being erotic tales)
I'll try and post the quote when I've got acces to my notes.

Valli Singh from this forum did his masters thesis(if I remember correctly) on a comparrision between Ramayan and Ram avatar in Dasam Granth... Send him a PM

Many years ago when I was reading through the Twarikh Guru Khalsa, I’m pretty sure I read some passages where the author said he had talked to punjabi Muslims who had returned from Mecca. And they had also seen materials related to guru Nanak there.  This book is from the 1880s. I’ll have to look it up again. 

What are your thoughts on it?

I havent been able to find references in dasam bani since sridasam.org was closed down 😞

Dancing is an expression of art and helps to tune in and 'let go' to musical rhythm. Kids that can't feel their own emotions often train this through music and dance as it helps them to feel a connection with something external (music) and internal (their body).  
Yes sure there are some that misuse it but that does'nt mean it per se becomes wrong. 
It's like those people that say it's wrong to clap and 'do rhythms' with your body when listening to kirtan.

Overall you start seeing a "Talebanisation" of SIkhi these years with a ban on everything that manifests artistic expression, whether music, dance, painting etc.
It's quite sad actually and completely ahistorical.

For instance this 

It probably says Siri instead of likhi. In Ganda singhs collection of hukamname most of them begin with Siri Guru jio Di aageya hai. 

TED talks rocks!

Gurfateh
Do you watch TED talks ? Sometimes you come across really inspiring and usefull lectures. I just watched this which gave food for thought on how the world works and people work but also the 'real' messages behind mythological stories in religious scripture.
 
 

What do you think so far - does the charitars warn against deception in many forms, or does it teach deception in many forms ? 
In many forms = deception through flattery, telling the truth, boosting egos, etc.