Silence

very true, eg. the "Ram Katha jug jug atal..." line- the translation completely misrepresents the meaning, giani thakur singh vyakhia completely cleared it up vaheguru shukar hai

thanks to the sevadars for getting it back up, and getting such a nice new design.

The Final Moments of Bhai Sahib's Earthly Life By Bhai Trilochan Singh in Sankhaep Jeevan Bh. Sb. Randhir Singh Translated by Admin www.tapoban.org In 1960 Bhai Sahib's leg veins became weak due to having spent so much time in the dark dungeons, though the rest of his body was healthy. He only had trouble walking about. On April 13, 1961, all the Jatha came to see Bhai Sahib for Vaisakhi. On April 14th he wished good bye to everyone and sent them off. On April 16th, in the morning, he prepared to leave for Gurpuri. It was a Sunday. On Saturday night, his entire bed had moved and his body seemed very restless as though the time had arrived for that great soul to leave his body. From Amrit Vela, Veer Balbir Singh [bh. Sb.'s son], Veer Sajan Singh, Bibi Dalaer Kaur, I and my Singhnee along with some others sat beside Bhai Sahib. At 7 am, I rose to have some words with Bhai Balbir Singh who was in the yard when Bhai Sahib raised both his arms, motioning for me to remain seated. I sat near him. He lovingly called Bibi Dalaer Kaur and he tightly clasped my right arm. I took his other hand and put it to my chest. A very strong current passed through my body. Everyone began to feel that the moment was drawing near. Everyone wanted to say some words to him or at least hear some final words but that holy soul who had spent his final days in peace, happiness and Sehaj avashtaa, also made his final moments miraculous. With the power of his breaths, he said "Vahi" and raised the swaas from his naabh kanval and with "Guru" he took his breaths to teh Gagan Mandal of Dasam Duaar. Again for the second time and then the third time he said "Vahiguru" he put his swaas in Dasam Duaar and then took his place in Gurpuri. This happened at 7.30am on April 16, 1961. His saskaar (cremation) happened at the pond between Gujjarwal and Narangwal. How could someone who does that not reach sachkhand? I hope you dont shanka Gurbani of Bhagat Ji on last thoughts before death Vaheguroo

Dude you read too much of the sarbloh site and simply regurgitate it as fact. Seriously was it that your first experience of Sikhi was reading that site? Not everything is in as simple boxes as you think. "Oh the fanatics are ___ they all believe this this and this". lol. Actually there are a variety of views within Boss and those who you would fit into one group "sikh societies", and there are also others who wouldn't fit into these neat little boxes who do believe some of these things too. Just something I had to put in after viewing some of your posts.

I think that its probably that they would need the support of the sikh sangat to do mass parchar, but they are either unknown to the majority of the panth or if they do know them, many people would not accept many of thier current practices. Just as a personal opinion, I don't think Udasis today are completely as they were originally formed, though have the utmost respect for them. I think there needs to be a reform from within first before anything else. Then it would be awesome to have them carrying on Guru Nanak Dev Ji's message. You called one baba ji 'Baba Daler singh Ji", do some udasis take khande di pahul?

Aaage pachotaavega

haha admit it, you got jumped by some jatha singhs and now your just bitter. LOL

londondajatt is this what you call your brothers? You make me sick, calling singhs of guru gobind singh ji animals, is this how you get your kicks insulting people trying to practice their sikhi, so what if you don't agree with them. There were many Akhand Pathh and Kirtan Samagams held at Chak No. 361 and at times Baptizing ceremonies too. The rare spiritual events that transpired then defy description. The Nam-practitioners Singhs of the village used to meditate in a single group. Such was the music generated that entire village would appear in trance. There was one Ganga Singh who delved in jest. Driven by his habit, he stood outside the door of meditation place. He found scores of people engaged in Nam-Simran in a loud voice with rosaries of steel in their hands. In aping them he made a rosary of thin string by typing little knots and started counting beads of improvised rosary while loudly reciting Nam. Just within fifteen minutes of his aping activity he fell flat on ground. He shrieked loudly and cried for help. Many people gathered around. On enquiry about his affliction, he pleaded, “Get me the sinner, pardoned by these Singhs”. He kept rolling in pain and making pleas for mercy. After meditation the Singh came out and lifted up Ganga Singh suffering in agony and hitting his head on ground. Ganga Singh in penance asked for forgiveness for his unpardonable sin and got himself baptized. He thus became a great devotee of Sikh Faith. He tearfully narrated this self-experience to me. This movement of getting baptized spread to many surrounding villages and many joined in to enjoy devotion and Bliss of Nam.

That video was very unsettling. May God alone help the panth. Anand anand sabh ko kahe anand GURU te jania

Yes, but it shouldn't be taken out of context like many enemies of Sikhi (RSS) like to do. Guru Ji simply wrote a history of his clan, the Sodhi clan, and somewhere along it some kings called Raam and his sons Lav and Kush appear...

the bitterness in some people you would think they were a pint of beer.

I don't think we are meant to take the contents of Chaubis Avatar literally, Guru Sahib states quite clearly at the start it is a narration. In my humble opinion, chaubis avatar's purpose is for us to understand the so called story of the 24 avatars, due to there being a reference to quite a few events of these supposed avatars' lives within gurbani, and also an action against elitist brahmins and ofcourse to learn lessons of character. However, I do not feel that it everything written their is meant to be taken as exactly what we are supposed to believe. The story of 24 avatars is an old one, and Guru Maharaj has shared that story as it is, with some commentary. I think this commentary is of utmost importance, especially the beginning: ਜੋ ਚਉਬੀਸ ਅਵਤਾਰ ਕਹਾਏ ॥ Jo chaubees avtaar kahaae|| Those who are called twenty-four incarnations; ਤਿਨ ਭੀ ਤੁਮ ਪ੍ਰਭ ਤਨਕ ਨ ਪਾਏ ॥ Tin bhitum Prabh tanak na paae|| O Lord ! they even could not realise thee in a small measure; ਸਭ ਹੀ ਜਗ ਭਰਮੇ ਭਵ ਰਾਯੰ ॥ Sabh hijag bharme bhav raayang|| They became kings of the world and got deluded; ਤਾ ਤੇ ਨਾਮੁ ਬਿਅੰਤ ਕਹਾਯੰ ॥੭॥ Taa te naam(u) biant kahaayang||7|| Therefore they were called by innumerable names. Chaubis Avatar should be read as what it is, the narration of a known, already told story, where are we to believe that this is our own belief? If I shared the story of Jesus' crucifiction, with part of that story stating that Jesus is the true Messiah, does this mean that I believe this personally and also that I am saying directly to you, or I am just narrating what others believe? For this reason, I don't believe in the coming of any avtar. Guru Granth Sahib Ji is the past, present and future of all and the only saviour is Guru Maharaj and his sobha - the khalsa. 'Amardeep' ji, i know your post was not addressed to me, however if I can humbly comment, take it if you want but historical sources should only be relied on so much. They have a tendency to get adultered-especially sikh ones, and many wrote with agendas in the first place. Whats important is to test them against gurbani, but thats up to you. and in regards to vishnu, heres something from bachitar natak sahib ji: (Sri Akal Purakh Sahib Ji Maharaj speaking to dhan dhan Sri Guru Gobind Singh Ji Maharaj/ Dusht Daman Sahib Ji Maharaj) I destroyed them(daityas) in no time and created gods in their place. They were also absorbed in the worship of power and called themselves Ominipotednt.7. Mahadeo (Shiva) was called Achyuta (blotless), Vishnu considered himself the Supreme. Brahma called himself Para Brahman, none could comprehend the Lord.8. Vaheguroo Sahib has no avatar, he is Nirgun Vaheguroo, and Sargun form is Guru Form of Shabad, and finally Guru's form also can be said to be in his true Sikh. bhull chuk maafee

that is character dialogue! its a bloody story! Not direct instructions to us. Every character in this charitar is presented in a bad light, therefore we are most certainly not being directed to learn from any of their actions, rather to learn about what lust will drive people to, what the character of lustful people is and to learn from all these characters mistakes. No point using gurbani for our own purposes! No wonder anti-Dasam granth people have so much fuel.

Thank you 'tsingh' ji for your response. If possible, could you kindly answer a few more? I really want to know why would sants such as baba attar singh ji need or want to go for 'blessings' at such places? Firstly, isn't everything we need with Guru Maharaj and his sangat? And also, aren't we then kind of saying we follow the same line as all other paths present there? It is not as if we would go for darshan of Muslim shrines. As before, these questions are truly for a novice such as myself to learn from and in no way doubting or questioning Mahapurash such as Baba Ji. Thank you for your time. On a side note, Udasis truly rock, they have an immensely important role in the Sikh panth.

I have nothing but complete awe struck admiration and respect for brahmgyani sant baba attar singh ji, however after reading something for the first time I would like to ask an honest, innocent question, really that what exactly was the reason behind baba ji visiting all these teeraths and kumb mela? I genuinely am interested to know, and am in no way questioning baba ji or trying to make sense of sant's actions. thank you.

SINGH SABHAA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Guru Nanak Dev Ji is not avataar but NIRANKAAR. Avtaar is nothing compared to what Guru Nanak Dev Ji is. Guru Nanak Dev Ji Maharaj is the Guru of ALL AGES, all these avtars were NOTHING, all they did was work as instruments of Guru Maharaj, the true saviour of all time. Its like in the past three yugs maharaj was using a hammer (the hammer being the avatars) to nail something, in kalyug the only difference is Maharaj is doing it by hand without the tools. All the time it was none other than Guru Nanak Dev Ji Maharaj doing it all. We have to understand who Guru Nanak Dev Sahib Ji Nirankaar Maharaj is, then we won't get questions like this. When you say "did Guru Nanak Sahib come a million times too", the question itself is wrong. Guru Nanak Dev Ji IS GOD, God doesn't come or go, he is the very reason for our existence: Satgur mera sada sada na avaeh na jaeh oh abinsaee purakh hai sabhna rahia samae My true Guru forever and ever, does not come and go He is the imperishable creator lord, he is permeating and pervading among all. These questions really can't be answered because as i said earlier, imo, they themselves are incorrect. Have a read of this, hopefully they should prevent the need of these questions in the first place. (please don't be put off by the url, the article in the first link is by bhai sahib bhai randhir singh ji, all backed up by Gurbani) http://www.tapoban.org/phorum/read.php?f=1...12&t=101120 and second one explains about avatars using gurbani http://www.tapoban.org/forum/read.php?1,81,81#msg-81

Guru ji PLEASE help us. I really feel like crying right now.

lol no not at all. I don't see how that would be related to raagmala even if it was true though :S No pothi sahib here! I mean Bhai Sahib was pretty renowned for doing kirtan for over 24 hours, going completely immersed into it, certainly wasn't using one then lol. Guru Ji apaar kirpa naal I go to quite a few rainsabhais/darbars whenever he wills, and I have to say I personally don't see the kirtanis using pothi sahib that often, 90% of the time I have seen without, same for the videos. Just search on youtube/google vids.

Brahmins of Guru Nanak Dev Ji's times: "Who does he think he is, changing our age old traditions? We are Brahmins, our practices must never be challenged by anyone!"

parh parh pandit vaad vakhane It's not about amassing knowledge, the very fact that we use the word 'scholar' when it comes to religion tells us straight away how wrong we are looking at it.

The original link was amazing and really well written, but an honest question, its different from the one mentioned here right? http://www.panthic.org/news/0/ARTICLE/2083/2005-12-11.html

I didn't realise that Guru Nanak Dev Ji Maharaj taught us to continously categorise and generalise people, just view me as an individual please. Yes, my ideology does fit in with mostly akhand kirtani jatha, though I do disagree with one or two things related to the jatha, that would be mindless groupism. Having said that, you do realise how much Bhai Sahib Randhir Singh Ji used Dasam Bani in his writings? He even talks of reciting Chandi Di Vaar during a break out of jail. N30 Sahib, I didn't mean it in the way you took it, maafee ji for not putting my message in a clearer fashion. It was really a more upbeat sort of remark in praise of the bir rasi gifts of Maharaj, less trying to insult any one else's traditions.

Is this any help for you jio? The Singhs who do this are good, they regularly hold camps there, you could ask them to do more programmes if you want Celebrating 300 years of Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji being given the Eternal Guruship Sikh Seva will be participating in: Sikh Activity Weekend Friday 31st October & Saturday 1st Nov 2008 Starts 8.30am (Hall No. 2) and finishes 4.30pm (For children & adults) Talks, discussions, Q & A, keertan, games, relaxation & meditation classes and more. Special Prize Giving Ceremony on Sunday 2nd November in Main Diwaan It is never too late to find out more about your faith and roots! A special weekend has been organised for children and adults where you can learn about your faith & history in English. Gurdwara Sahib Leamington & Warwick Queensway Estate, Queensway, Leamington Spa, Warwickshire CV31 3LZ

I feel frightened just thinking about this sant nindak and panthic dhust's fate in dharam raj's court. ਪਉੜੀ ॥ Pa▫oṛī. Pauree: ਪੜਿਆ ਲੇਖੇਦਾਰੁ ਲੇਖਾ ਮੰਗੀਐ ॥ Paṛi▫ā lekẖeḏār lekẖā mangī▫ai. The learned and educated are called to account for their actions. ਵਿਣੁ ਨਾਵੈ ਕੂੜਿਆਰੁ ਅਉਖਾ ਤੰਗੀਐ ॥ viṇ nāvai kūṛi▫ār a▫ukẖā ṯangī▫ai. Without the Name, they are judged false; they become miserable and suffer hardship.