chatanga1

I have been thinking of taking my child (7) to Shinkin. I have seen some of their classes, and wanted to know what the brothers here feel about Shinkin.

I would really like for him to learn shastarvidya, but i think he may be a bit young for some of those techniques. So i have been thinking about Shinkin more.

Your thoughts please.

Humble namaskar to anyone who helps others. But here in the UK whilest this crises was making headline news, I counted at least 8 muslim tv channels who were supporting the same cause and raising a lot more mone than khalsa aid. There was a case in Pakistan where a sikh girl of 17 was abducted and forced to marry a muslim this year. As of yet she has not returned home. khalsa aid really could have helped that family with moeny for legal representation. We don't make any headway with one or two brownie points.
 
On the other hand its good to see you back!

Who would go back to india seeing the total lack of help shown to one of their citizens?

http://sikhsangat.org/2013/copy-of-1809-amritsar-treaty-up-for-uk-auction/

London, UK: A copy of the Treaty of Amritsar, dating back to the early 19th century, will be the highlight of an auction in the UK of rare historical documents related to Sikhs.

The treaty, which was a pact struck between Maharaja Ranjit Singh and Charles T Metcalfe on behalf of the British East India Company in 1809, is expected to fetch £600 to £800 (around Rs 54,000-Rs 72,000).

It was presented to the British Parliament in 1818 and went on to define IndoSikh relations for a generation.
“We are honoured to be selling this rare document. The Amritsar treaty was very important in the foundation of the great empire Maharaja Ranjit Singh had built. We are also excited about the large number of rare Sikh books we have for sale,” said Richard Westwood-Brookes from Mullock’s auction house, which is organising the sale at Ludlow Racecourse in Shropshire on August 21.

The East India Company’s need for a defensive treaty against the French resulted in the pact, which chalked out the frontier of land controlled by Ranjit Singh along the Sutlej river.

Other key items coming up for auction include a large collection of rare and early Sikh books in English and Punjabi, mostly out of print and some dating back to the early 19th century.

An early watercolour of a Sikh Guru is also priced for £600 to £800.

A number of other historical documents and photographs relating to Punjab will also to go under the hammer.
Mullock’s specialises in the sale of rare documents and recently sold a collection of personal items belonging to Mahatma Gandhi, including his handwritten will, for an estimated £300,000 (around Rs 3 crore).

Should have learnt from 10 years ago when an elderly Sikh sewadar was bludgeoned to death by burglars in a Wolverhampton Gurdwara.

photos I took of the historic Gurdwara Thamm Sahib.
 
The Thamm that Guru Arjan Dev Ji built was destroyed by the Moghals in 1740s (i  think) but the gurdwara was rebuilt again by Dal Panth. This used to belong to the Sodhis of Kartarpur under Baba Wadhbhag Singh but he gave it over to the Guru Khalsa Panth after Moghals took it over. There is nothing surviving from Guru Sahib's personal possessions here though.
My Guru blessed my eyes and heart with a visit to this sacredplace. I didn't know there was so much history to Kartarpur. There are many other historic Gurdwaras here in close proximity inc where Guru Teg Bahadur was married to Mata Gujari, the chabucha of Guru Hargobind Sahib, the antim sanskar place of Mata Kaulan etc. I will put those up soon as well.
Parts of the Qila (fortress) that Guru Sahib built is still there. It is under the control of the Sodhis of Kartarpur still.

 

No footnotes on page.

This building houses the antim sanskar asthan of Mata Kaulan. According to GP 6, Guru HarGobind Sahib performed these rites. The building is not old oldish, it certainly is old but seems to be a structure of some 3 or 4 decades in age. You can see that the photos I took are from far away, because this ground actually belongs to the Sodhis and they are very adamant that no Sikhs can cross into their land. You can see that the land around is is quite unkempt. But the Sodhis don't seem to be too interested in this place themselves. After going to this place, I spoke with a person who has contacts with SGPC and he said that he would ask them to go and see the place. The SGPC have some kind of connection with the Sodhis so that any historic places can be renovated by mutual consent.
 
At the bottom of these photos I am adding a page from GP6 and I am quite surprised at what was written. It says that Mata Kaulan was given the funeral rites of a Muslim. Now there was some debate and confusion of what Mata Kaulan's background was. Was she a hindu who was a maid/concubine of the Qazi of Lahore, or was she his muslim daughter. I think that as she was given the funeral rites of a Muslim she most likely would have been the Qazi's biological daughter.
Read and share anything you find interesting.
 

 

I don't know whether Painde Khan's funeral was done in accordance to Islamic rites or whether Guru Sahib performed agan sanskar for Painde Khan. Anyone know this?
The place where the funeral was done however is a very unimposing place and very neglected. This is heritage of Panjab but it seemed invisible to people going past it.
 
This is the actual structure of the funeral place. Could Painde Khan be buried here?
 

 
This building is right next to it. As you can see it is a very old building. And Gujjars were grazing their animals there!

 

And someone has the bright idea of painting on an advertisement there.

This is the holy place where "Guru" Nanak appeared for the first time, after his meeting with Sri Akaal Purkh. It is not the same place as where Guru Sahib entered River Bein, but about 1 kilometre down the river. It was here where Guru Sahib made his famous "There is no Hindu or Muslim" statement.
Bhai Gurdas Ji writes about this :
"ਪਹਿਲਾ ਬਾਬੇ ਪਾਯਾ ਬਖਸੁ ਦਰਿ, ਪਿਛੋ ਦੇ ਫਿਰਿ ਘਾਲਿ ਕਮਾਈ।
First of all Baba Nanak obtained the gate of the grace (of Lord) and then He underwent and earned the rigorous discipline( of heart and mind).
ਰੇਤੁ ਅਕੁ ਆਹਾਰੁ ਕਰਿ, ਰੋੜਾ ਕੀ ਗੁਰ ਕਰੀ ਵਿਛਾਈ।
He fed himself with sand and swallow-wort and made stones his bedding i.e. he enjoyed poverty too.
ਭਾਰੀ ਕਰੀ ਤਪਸਿਆ, ਵਡੇ ਭਾਗੁ ਹਰਿ ਸਿਉ ਬਣਿ ਆਈ।
He offered hid full devotion and then he was fortunate to have proximity with God.
ਬਾਬਾ ਪੈਧਾ ਸਚਖੰਡਿ, ਨਉ ਨਿਧਿ ਨਾਮੁ ਗਰੀਬੀ ਪਾਈ।
Baba reached the region of truth wherefrom he received Nam, the storehouse of nine treasures and humility.
ਬਾਬਾ ਦੇਖੈ ਧਿਆਨ ਧਰਿ, ਜਲਤੀ ਸਭਿ ਪ੍ਰਿਥਵੀ ਦਿਸਿ ਆਈ।
In his meditation, Baba found the whole earth burning (with the fire of lust and anger).
ਬਾਝਹੁ ਗੁਰੂ ਗੁਬਾਰ ਹੈ, ਹੈ ਹੈ ਕਰਦੀ ਸੁਣੀ ਲੁਕਾਈ।
Without Guru there is utter darkness and he heard the cries of the common men.
ਬਾਬੇ ਭੇਖ ਬਣਾਇਆ ਉਦਾਸੀ ਕੀ ਰੀਤਿ ਚਲਾਈ।
To further understand the people, Guru Nanak donned robes in their manner and preached them to be detached (from the pleasure and pain).
ਚੜ੍ਹਿਆ ਸੋਧਣਿ ਧਰਤਿ ਲੁਕਾਈ ॥੨੪॥
Thus he went out to depurate humanity on earth. "
 
There were some other Gurdwaras in Sultanpur I wanted to visit but didn't get a chance. Next visit I will definitely go. The Gurdwara where Guru Nanak's braat commenced their journey, the Gurdwara where Guru Sahib went to pray in the Mosque (the site is now a Gurdwara.)
 

 
The above are the Bein where Guru Sahib appeared after 3 days.
 
Below is the Gurdwara constructed to comemorate that special event:

 
The Gurdwara Sant Ghat Sahib from the front:
 

 
and a board detailing the signifiance of the holy place:

What have the 5 takhts been able to do for Gurdwara Dongmar, Sikkim, which was taken over 2 years ago by a Buddhist gang?
Or even Gurdwara Gyan Godri, where Guru Nanak Dev Ji "fed" his fields with Ganges water?
 
What about Gurdwara Arti Sahib, where Guru Nanak composed his famous Arti? Taken over in Orissa 2 years ago?
 
Having your own asthaans doesn't equate to reach or influence.
 
Buddha Dal has a biscuit factory that I'm aware of.
 
So the burning question is, why haven't they?

No matter if it's rescinded. The fact it that it was proclaimed in the first place.

Who would go back to india seeing the total lack of help shown to one of their citizens?

Please list any members you know.
 
No because the visas are all issued through the SGPC and no-one can just go and take control/care of any buildings there.

This is the fourth or fifth positive thing you have said, since plaguing this forum. Well done.

If you put the efffort in, then you will see results. Most Gurdwaras in UK do have panjabi classes but they are mainly (from what i've seen) geared towards producing gcse and a-levels, and nothing beyond.

There is no study of panjabi literature at all. For adults, the only panjabi literature they may get close to are the historic sikh texts, which ironically aren't even panjabi ie panth parkash, suraj prakash.

I did try to start up a reading club at the local gurdwara, where if there was interest, I wanted to look at some old Sikh texts like Kavi Kankan's and move onto bigger things. Advertised it for best part of a year, but absolutely no-one was interested.

So at the mo, i can't see this phoenix rising.

doesn't mean anything, the world and it's dog called Nelson Mandela the same.


give us examples why?



are you the same that sided with the british a decade before ?

or realises that there's no point in discussing anything with a punjabi hindu. after all if a punjabi hindu can sell his mother and still feel like he has done something to be proud of, i can understand why.

Is that why your people like to kill those who read different prayers?


I have read (unfortunately) many books on the Panjab subject, which are not only a laughing stock, but an environmental crime, as they have destroyed valuable natural assets to produce something that is worth nothing to a person with an ounce of education.

knights of falsehood by gill
OPS the true story by brar
the 3rd sikh war by bhutani

and so on.

Kirpal Singh has done an amazing page book about the parttion of Panjab.

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Select-Documents-Partition-Punjab-1947/dp/8171164455/ref=sr_1_sc_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1405787402&sr=8-2-spell&keywords=kirpal+singh+partition+ounjab

yes its very interesting. its a collection of short stories about experiences of Sikh, Hindu and Muslim families from Lahore.

It provides very insightful details of that part of history, told by the common man.

I thought they did all that themselves.

No mate, it's not.
 
No one denies that, it does happen, and still happens. But nowhere on the scale on what happens in other states. Read that article and look at the statistics.
I'm reminded of a friend of mine from a long time, a chamar, with a heart of gold really, was telling me about the time he and his brother went to Benaras, to see the birthplace of Bhagat Ravidas Ji, and how astounded he was at the treatment of dalits in that area.
 
But why have the dalits in UP, who have been on the receiving end of some appalling and brutal treatment by the high-caste hindus, not left Hinduism and embraced Sikhi then?

No-one is letting anyone of the hook, least of all ourselves.
 
They are worse than us, that can never be disputed but the whole scenario is not as black and white as that. The fact is that on the whole across India, Dalits in Panjab have a much better existence than Dalits outside Panjab.
 
And what are they given to convert? The missionaries say "we will pay your school fees, for healthcare and for food" etc but they still receive little of what is promised.
Just like how the Congress and BJP have promised them "atta and daal" schemes but ended up giving them nothing.
My village is full of Christians who know nothing about Christianity, they are there for the few free things they get. Like some eggs on a Sunday after service.
 
But that doesn't affect just Dalits. Thats a whole other issue affecting the Panth.
 
And so is this. There are so many poor jat sikhs. Probably more jats kill themselves in one year than Dalits kill themselves in a decade in Panjab.

No-one is letting anyone of the hook, least of all ourselves.
 
They are worse than us, that can never be disputed but the whole scenario is not as black and white as that. The fact is that on the whole across India, Dalits in Panjab have a much better existence than Dalits outside Panjab.
 
And what are they given to convert? The missionaries say "we will pay your school fees, for healthcare and for food" etc but they still receive little of what is promised.
Just like how the Congress and BJP have promised them "atta and daal" schemes but ended up giving them nothing.
My village is full of Christians who know nothing about Christianity, they are there for the few free things they get. Like some eggs on a Sunday after service.
 
But that doesn't affect just Dalits. Thats a whole other issue affecting the Panth.
 
And so is this. There are so many poor jat sikhs. Probably more jats kill themselves in one year than Dalits kill themselves in a decade in Panjab.