Only five

Jhatka stores? This is funny. The whole purpose of jhatka is for getting better at clean kills, being able to take the site of killing, and gutting the animal yourself, so you don't punk out at the site of organs hanging out, but here Sikhs are going to run jhatka shops for the taste buds. If these shops want to be effecient and produce at it's maximum then get a machine that looks like a Nihang Singh and just place the goat before it. Have a recording that says Bole So Nihal Sat Sri Akal after it does each animal. Jhatka stores are just an insult to the whole tradition. Isn't the Sikhi of today already in a crisis and is in need of it's warroirs to fight for it today? How many goats does it take to gain this warroir spirit and actually apply it? Last question, how many Jhatka sections did Sant Baba Jarnail Singh ji Khalsa go through, before taking on the Indian Army? Last one, also how many did the Singhs go through that stood with Sant Baba Jarnail Singh ji Khalsa on that day?

Say you have a disease and eventually you conquer that disease inside of you. Now does that disease still stay with you and needs to be conrolled or is it completely gone? I say the latter because if it was the former then you really have conquered nothing as it still in you. Remember sexual instinct is not apart of the envirnoment, but inborn, it's not the same as sexual desire. Also Gurbani say to destroy sexual desire. Conquer also means to overcome, so why is there a need to control sexual instinct as it has been conquered(it can't attack you again). Control would been to keep something in check and not let it unleash itself, which in true form just say it has not been conquered. To get the true meaning of conquer we have to read the next part because it also say you are free of the five passion. Which includes sexual desire. Free means they are not in you anymore and nothing has to be controlled because they are not present. Only reason why they have to be controlled would be if you are not free of them. Since Gurbani say to be free of them, then there is no reason to control

shaheediyan, I agree become master of the desire. But if you read the shabad from Sri Sukhmani Sahib ji then it goes further and says conquer sexual instinct, which is the cause of, in this case sexual desire. So Guru Sahib is saying get to the root and master it. Once this sexual instinct(bound to this world) is conquered, doesn't that mean that energy has transformed into something that is permanent and does not rest in a person as sexual instinct anymore? To call sexual instinct or sexual desire as not wrong would be a mistake because we are told to conquer it. It's like conquering the ego, that force does not stay as ego anymore but has turned into something positive and is not an instinct anymore. Where the body or mind does not desire it or need it. I think it's a huge mistake saying any of the Gurus acted out of sexual instinct or desire because they tell us not to act out in any one of these. I'm not saying the act of procreation is wrong or is spiritually draining, but there is a way to procreate without letting your sexual instinct coming into play.

Reading Sri Sukhmani Sahib ji, this is what I came across: This Shabad is by Guru Arjan Dev Ji in Raag Gauree on Pannaa 274 AstpdI ] asattapadhee || Ashtapadee: imiQAw nwhI rsnw prs ] mithhiaa naahee rasanaa paras || One whose tongue does not touch falsehood; mn mih pRIiq inrMjn drs ] man mehi preeth nira(n)jan dharas || whose mind is filled with love for the Blessed Vision of the Pure Lord, pr iqRA rUpu n pyKY nyqR ] par thria roop n paekhai naethr || whose eyes do not gaze upon the beauty of others' wives, swD kI thl sMqsMig hyq ] saadhh kee ttehal sa(n)thasa(n)g haeth || who serves the Holy and loves the Saints' Congregation, krn n sunY kwhU kI inMdw ] karan n sunai kaahoo kee ni(n)dhaa || whose ears do not listen to slander against anyone, sB qy jwnY Awps kau mMdw ] sabh thae jaanai aapas ko ma(n)dhaa || who deems himself to be the worst of all, gur pRswid ibiKAw prhrY ] gur prasaadh bikhiaa pareharai || who, by Guru's Grace, renounces corruption, mn kI bwsnw mn qy trY ] man kee baasanaa man thae ttarai || who banishes the mind's evil desires from his mind, ieMdRI ijq pMc doK qy rhq ] ei(n)dhree jith pa(n)ch dhokh thae rehath || who conquers his sexual instincts and is free of the five sinful passions nwnk koit mDy ko AYsw Aprs ]1] naanak kott madhhae ko aisaa aparas ||1|| - O Nanak, among millions, there is scarcely one such 'touch-nothing Saint'. ||1|| Some are saying God gave us kaam so it's natural to play it out. Then you have Guru Sahib telling us to conquer the sexual instinct,completely the opposite what others have said. Like Guru Sahib says, conquer this instinct, then wouldn't that also mean whatever stimulus in society is causing you to behave in it, should be conquered and should not subdue you to your sexual instinct. Then what about your wife, which is a stimulus, doesn't that go back to conquering this stimulus(sexual desire) and sexual instinct? Guru Sahib defined sexual desire(involving stimulus) and sexual instinct(naturally) completely differently, but both are to be conquered. Can a Sikh procreate without kaam and sexual instinct and love his wife without both of them?

If the the learned people would write more post like this then it would actually be understood. N3O Singh and Singh2, along with others have done this. But to just say to someone you must accept it, especially a topic like this will get you no where. I just wanted a member to come out and say it, Sikhs don't worship deities. Thanks

Did Sri Guru Gobind Singh Sahib ji worship diety/ies and/or did/is telling his Sikhs to worship deity/ies?

So no one should do anything but other than Mekhane Ch Jannat because he is the only one who knows what Dharma is. Tell me when your fantasy is over, I'll come back with reality. Their is a sakhi where Sri Guru Gobind Singh Sahib ji committed a wrong act, purposely to see if his Sikhs will speak up against adharma and guess what his Sikhs spoke up and Guru Sahib congrulated them on sticking to Dharma no matter who goes against it. Sorry pal, the act is higher than the dust, what you refer to as body.

Islam, specifically their holy scripture, the Koran is being used as a way to convert innocent woman into muslim, which involves using decieving ways because the Koran allows them to lie to a non-muslim. Take the Koran out of the picture and these Muslims have no more backing to lie and convert other woman. When you attack them back, it's still called Sarbat Da Bhalla because the attack is not out of anger or ego, but out of defense of others. Sure, we need to teach Sikh women and girls about Sikhi from a young age, but we also need to open up the Koran and teach them that it says a wife can be beat by her Muslim husband and a Muslim can lie to a non-muslim.

I myself know muslims and these guys are good guys, but does that stop me from saying there are no fanatical ones out their, just waiting to pounce on a Christian, Hindu, and Sikh girl to convert them. Muslims are hell bent over having the most population in the world and they will try to convert any girl. If that means, emotionally blackmailing her and then getting her pergenant then they'll use it. Even the good muslims pride over they are one of the fastest growing religion. Why the hell wouldn't the fanatical ones, have foam coming out of their mouth to convert. Punjabis can beat their wives in a relationship, they can do many other stupid things, but never tie them down and make the girl a complete slave, where all she does is make babies. Where she is completely disrespected and if she dies, then the muslim can give two sh*ts about it. All they care about is they got more muslims out of her. For God sake they marry their own cousins. When is the last time you heard a punjabi marry his cousin and then have many kids as possible and then go marry another girl and do the same. Muslims can have multiple wives, which just means more foam coming from the husbands mouth because more babies= more muslims. In Sri Guru Gobind SIngh Sahib ji times the Muslims were up to the same decieving ways and now they have just gone more advanced because of computers. Lure in women off the msn, facebook, or whatever else is out there. Bringing up the Punjabi arguement here is completely pointless because Punjabis don't use women as baby making machines and are not hell bent over converting them into Islam. What needs to be done for Sikh woman is that they are just told right from the start stay away from Muslims because only 1% out of all of them are good. Even saying 1% is good is being real nice. Even Guru Sahib issue a Hukam where he told us not to socialize with Muslims. Sikh woman need to be taught the muslim religion. Actually pick up a Koran and then tell them about all the verse in there that says the man can beat a woman and praticely make her a slave. Tell them Muslims can lie to a non-muslim to better Muslim, which means bring more into Islam. As soon as these feminist women here this, they will engrave it into their heads never to trust a muslim and some will still be deviant and go for muslims, but with more education, even these women can be turned into good Sikh women. There should be a site created where all the verse are put up on the site. By just telling them stay away from Muslims, that will only make them go after them even more. If you look at it, how do Christian teach all of society about their religion? It's by building public schools where Christianity is taught. As Sikhs we need to build private schools that are funded by the Gurdwaras and Sikhs, where we can teach Sikhi values in the open and any person from any religion can get his grade 12 from here. For God Sake we don't need more Gurdwaras,we desperately need schools. You can even have Sri Guru Granth Sahib ji in the school and have morning ardas and everything. Look at Christians in India they are building schools and teaching Christianity only to make more people christians. For Sikhs it won't be about bringing more people in, but teaching the truth about the world and it's ways. Even in Canada the schools are not secular, so we as Sikhs need to building one school in all areas that goes through preschool all the way to grade 12. But Muslims, even though I know a few, I will still tell sisters to stay away from them at all cost, she could be a christian, hindu or any other religion or no religion.

Jhatka is the only type of meat a Sikh can eat. None of that store bought stuff or your local butcher shop. Only Jhatka. Vegetarian diet is the way to go in the west. Unless you own a farm and have goats where you can perform Jhatka, which is a really rare case or it proabably doesn't even exist in Canada. I'm going to stay quiet on this issue. We don't see eye to eye, and dragging this on will just get others mad and others that don't like jhatka, all happy that it's being attacked. If some want to do jhatka twice a day, everyday of the week, once a month, the doors are open for intrepretation.

Dead on. That what I was saying when I called it a useless ritual NOW. There is seriously a need to modernize the weapons the Nihang Singhs practice with, so when it comes to protecting Sikhs from oppressors, it can be done. Then keeping the Jhatka tradition will serve is purpose.

Veera, remember that thing I wrote on jhatka while back and pretty much everyone thought I was writing against Jhatka. Well here, we go again. In no way, Am I against Jhatka. The Nihang Singhs are the warriors of the Khalsa Panth, they are the one's that focus more on war aspect of Sikhi. So when it comes to standing up for Sikhi in a physical way, these guys are suppose to be going out and serving justice. But what do you see, now. The nihang Singh, just like rest of the Panth, who have gone selfish sitting on their hands. Say I was a taksal Singh, I'm be like to the Nihang you go fight the oppressors and the Nihang Singh is sayin the same back to the Taksal Singh. Only reason they are telling each other this, is because they believe their maryada will die, if they weren't around anymore. But it's the Nihang Singhs from rest of the Singhs that say we have the warrior aspect in us. They perform Jhatka regularly and probably go hunting regularly aswell. To my understanding Taksal were started to teach Gurbani and Guru Sahib gave the Nihang Singhs the duty of protecting people from oppressors. But somewhere throughout time, the Nihang Singhs got over protective of their way of life and lost the plot. Instead of working together, the Taksal and Nihang Singhs, both started their own ways and started their different marayada. Jhatka is to prepare a person for war, but what is it being used for now. Just for the tongue. Teaching the youth Singhs how to do jhatka is one thing, but you have older Singh that have done it couple of times, now just doing it over and over. It's become more of a party thing. Get together, watch be blow this things head off and then another cut the things head, while it's barely got any life in it. And you said it all. THEIR PURATAN SIKH MARYADA. How many Maryada's did Guru Sahib leave for us and how many have we created? Just wait 50 years or so. We'll be just like the Christians. Already looking like them, might aswell jump into their suits because surely no one is going to drop their big heads and come up with one Maryada.

This whole jhatka thing is just getting out of hand. It's just becoming a pointless ritual. If their getting ready for war then, the Taliban is waiting for a fight. They're arleady mocking Sikhs and Sikhs have been executed. Only call him a Nihang who goes into battle.

Or to people that obey to every command with out questioning. My dog does this, but even he disobeys sometimes.

Singh I sent you an pm regarding this.

I would agree, but everything just escalated when Darshan Laal came back here to Canada. Sikhi is being attacked in every possible way now. Our history, Granths, Identity, etc, etc. We have pseudo scholars writing article that are damaging to any knew person trying to learn about Sikhi. Darshan Laal needs to be dealt with swiftly, if we want to keep the Panth as one.

What does your questions have to do with this topic. How Jathedar are picked is a whole new topic here and should be discussed under another thread. Again what does this have to do with this thread. Singh please start a new thread where all this can be discussed. If Darshan Laal was a small fry, then we would not have had three protest in three countries and fights break out in all three of them. We have the whole Panth talking, discussing, and fighting amongst themselves over this. Darshan Laal issue is a major one because he is trying to split the Panth up into two. These kind of plans of his need to be tackled now and not left on the till later where we have Panth like the Christians do. We can't let history repeat itself, but in a different religion now.

Did Akal Takht in the past 15 years ever give a Hukam that was against Gurmat? Badal has control over it then where are the Hukams that go against Gurmat. Sri Akal Takht will always be respect by a Sikh. Even if a crooked person like Sarna or Darshan Laal takes over because it is not that Sri Akal Takht is cunning, but people like Sarna and Darshan Laal and Badals are who control it. Currently the Hukams from Sri Akal Takht Sahib ji have merit against Darshan Laal. And it's not just one person who says they have merit, but all of the Khalsa Panth stands behind it. If the Panth did believe the current affair Hukam was boogus then there would not have been protests in already three different countries where alot of Sikhs live and in the homeland. India, UK, and now Canada. And saying Sri Akal Takht Sahib is run by Badal is just a front now. How long has Badal been around, why wasn't something done over the years. Darshan Laal was Jathedar, where was his voice then. I forgot his followers and him were to busy drinking alcohol and making plans to discredit Sri Dasam Granth Sahib ji. Just now people want to bring this up. When this issue is done, no one will even mention Badal holds control everyone will go back into their cave.

Sunny, is apart of the giddar Darshan Panth. Why waste time on a person like this. He bows at the feet of a giddari, congress. Their back is weak and their hands shake. These giddars can't even own up to their demon fathers name. Over the years their demon fathers all rose only to die choking on their own blood. The child of the demon has the same destiny.

Here is reality for you. What beabdi just happened in Dehli, Rakabganj Sahib and Darshan Laal and Sarna are still sleeping in the same bed. The beabdi was caught twice, so who knows how long this beadbi has been going on under the lovers Darshan Laal and Sarna's watch.

Doesn't the words of Sri Guru Gobind Singh Sahib ji say it all. He asked for 5 heads, not five bakra. Unless you want to call Sri Guru Gobind Singh Sahib ji a hypocrite and a deciever, then the blood on the sword did come from a bakra. Guru Sahib wouldn't ask for heads and then do something different in the tambu.

Just don't make any of those SPN, Darshan Ragi lovers be mod's. They will cause more chaos, and slander members through pm. I learned first hand who those people are.

The 3HO did not do it out of no Singhs being around, but out of egotisical behaviour. They thought that by them putting in Kaurs they will break a ritual the Khalsa Panth has created with only Singhs. They failed to see the reason why only Singhs are allowed. Above you say Khalsa is above gender thinking, then why did Sri Guru Gobind Singh Sahib ji(the master of Khalsa) give us two separate last names? Why not just one last name? If it was just about getting rid of caste. That's correct many Jatha say many things, but at the end of the day its about what did Sri Guru Gobind Singh Sahib ji prescribe us to do. You need Sarbloh batta, Sri Dasam Granth Sahib, no woman as Sri Guru Gobind Singh Sahib ji did, and then patsah, did a Kaur always put in patsah after the first Amrit Sanskar or did one of the Punj Pyare do it with Sri Guru Gobind Singh Sahib ji's instructions as many Amrit Sanskars were done after the first one? I go to repeat, two wrongs, don't make a right. If somone loosens up the Maryada, do we all follow those guys. The answer lies in the amount of Jathas that have their own Maryada, who have rejected the loosing. Also a Bhramgyani(Sant Jarnail SIngh Ji Khalsa) said no Kaurs in Punj, this reflects on your bhramgyani point showing a bhramgyani is against it and I wonder if Sant ji said anything about only bhramgyani giving Khande Batta da Amrit.

I'm glad you got slapped around and admin cut. If you're acting like this I could just imagine what is coming out of your dads mouth. So give us the word when round 2 is

I'm all for it, but one last word. You stated before that the limit stops at kurahits in Maryada, since the Kurahits come after the Amrit Sanskar that would make the prescribed order and who gives Amrit even a bigger kurahit if changed and not followed.