Lucky

Luna Chamari is one who's mantar yantar's are used by muslims to entice women. She was from the chamar caste and may have moved to Italy, where she helped fellow cobblers(chamar)

Those movies were staged like the moon landings, yes?

which part of the above post by @Akali_Akal_Singh, didn't you understand? (please answer this, instead of dodging the questions as in the past). Q. Doing Havan differently in sargun roop; doesn't mean it's a different nirgun worship. ... does it? If so, then please explain how and why a different approach to some sargun action "demonstrates" that the inner-nirgun homage must be different. Q. I don't understand why you are justifying by bringing Namdharis into this when they don't follow "Guru Maneyo Granth"?> Comments on topics like these need to be explained and you just continue to confuse other Sikhs by continually pasting other people's works. This just tarnishes the image of a forum. There is no constructive dialogue on here; just persistent spam like pasting that has no interactive elements that a forum is supposed to. You asked some questions about the 5 tat(elements), not long ago, if you had done some vichaar using your own buddi (like a Sikh is supposed to), then you may have concluded some relevance to the issue of havan. Hence, your approach to this topic could have been more collective and productive.

it's good, they are giving you messages, which only you can decipher, depending on what's happening in your life. It's a good thing, but it is all maya, therefore, you don't want to be persistent for it to be constantly continuing, as that will halt your further spiritual progress. These things happen, because devtes/angels(same thing), know that you have potential, and they try and guide, as well as reassure you. When you are shown things or presented some ideas about past lives, then these are laid out due to your karams. Some of us have a specific purposes for this janam, and we took birth to fulfill these duties and purposes. These purposes all depend on past karams and past life avasthas, and they also determine this life's destiny and the karams you have to bhog in this janam. You shouldn't be talking too much about them, because that can make them stop helping you. By this I mean, telling people around you in real life. It's okay on the forum, if you are just anonymous name and no one knows the real you. Imagine if you were a sports celebrity and you turned up to young boy's house to guide him with his soccer. Now, if the boy starts jumping around and using all his energy to tell everyone "look who's here...look...look.", instead of appreciating your concern to help him. If he continues to jump around telling all instead of respecting your help to put in some energy to learn from you, then you are not likely to hang around too long. Because you had turned up to help this kid and not to display a celebrity appearance. In the same way, messengers/devte/angels won't hang around too long if the person doesn't make efforts to decipher or ask for the messages of help. My advice is that you try and increase your awareness and make efforts to be in touch with the divine inside you 24/7. You can also prepare and psyche yourself up to ask a question in the dream or for an explanation. If you are able to do this and have control to ask the question in dream state, then you've already stepped up a few notches of consciousness. I doubt you will get a straight response or answer the first time, but you may get a strong signal. Don't get too wrapped up in to describing the details and picturesque scenes, but try and find the message behind it that will be tailored to your current mental, emotional and physical state of both mind and body. Do simnran and turn towards gurbani when you want to seek. You won't get the answer immediately after reading or reciting, but it will come when the time's right. It starts in dreams, but if you play it right, then you will have them turning up in different forms and roops during your daily life. You have potential, so its advisable to make efforts to get past the heavenly abodes leading to sachkhand, where only the pure Nirankar resides.

the jaap is not heard through physical ears, but the sukham inner mind ears.

A non-swimmer can read as many books on how to swim. Months and years of reading..reading..and reading, without ever attempting to get in the water, will never help him to swim a length physically. In the same manner, if you don't ever undertake the real practice, then all the readings will be of no use in the end.

I firmly believe that there is no other technique more effective than navel activation for establishing rom rom. I never tried to put together the various mahapursh's guidance about Navel, to conclude it's significance.

You right, his views are more missionary. I too, doubt he has any experience or if he has ever had any kind of spiritual experience. Lots of sangat listen to him and take his words as gospel, which is a shame. Ignore these kinds and just absorb the little bits of truth that one is able to extract.

Good stuff. The languages will vary depending on degrees of conscious elevation. Many will appear quite alien at this stage and some may be familiar. The stages that follow are more important and that's when you shall be able to look back and confirm your experiences now. There may be many scientific concepts and myths that you may have doubted in the past, however, experiences and the gyan that comes with it, helps to show you the Truth. Most importantly, ALL Answers are there in Gurbani. When rom rom manifests and is pargat in full, then there are a few nishanees that I'm aware of, that can be used to help validate this. I wouldn't describe it as a analogy of lots of voices; to all the cells doing jap. But it is more about heights of awareness and harmony with jap, mainly within your self and also around you. Good point about the fine tuning. I think it's a process of cleansing the inner junk and then reaching further heights as a result. Cleansing takes of the layers of excess junk clutter in our minds.

He doesn't say anything wrong directly in the video but the technique he mentions of excessive & forced navel breathing is NOT simran and not what I would recommend to anyone either. He is correct that this can lead to a "Forced" kundalini awakening, ..but all Yoga's advise against this in general and warn students about not attempting forced kundalini awakenings. However, the video can be misinterpreted, because he has used the term yojis, very loosely. It gives the impression that all yogi methods are forced and not gurmat. Whereas, this is clearly not the case. He says that people doing "waheguru waheguru" and no gurbani veechar or paaths is a false technique-> True to an extent, ..but you have to do simran to start going within,..and when you are more inwards, you will interpret gurbani at much deeper levels. A true abyassee can usually tell if another Sikh has been practicing abyaas in gurmat, if the other's gurbani veechar and interpretation is deep enough and more profound. .Especially with bhagat bani like Kabeer ji and Naamdev..

Welcome, I don't intend to cause further confusion but Naam only comes as gurprasaad via Satguru / Waheguru. I can only advise as per teachings of sikhi, for which our only Guru is Satguru Sri Guru Granth Sahib ji. When Sikh is referring to naam, this comes by gurprasad and divine blessings, as one conducts their life as per gurbani. For Sikhs, the complete gurbani scripture and even any part of the granth, is guru itself. (Bani guru, guru hai bani) With reference to your main question, The overall answer is NO. When one gets naam, then he can't just take a back seat and let the driving go autopilot.You have to be in the driving seat of your vehicle 24/7. The vehicle is your body. A Sikh maintains his practice on a daily basis and is continuous with the discipline. This is why Sikhs have a rehit or code of conduct. Rehit involves a repeated daily discipline of naam jap, nitnem and commandments for lifestyle. Therefore, to get your questions answered and to attain the path of mukhti, you have to maintain that daily rehit on a continuous basis.....repeating daily. I cannot answer for any spiritual master that claims they can give you naam dhan. If you have spiritual master /guide, then they can help show you the way with a mantar to help focus mind inwards towards God. In sikhi, we don't regard any human person as a Guru. Only the Sri Guru Granth Sahib ji is Living Guru for eternity.

A very powerful shabad. Just to add to this very good outline above by Sat, ..... the stage between 4 and 5, is a very long process that itself contains many other stages along the way. I think, I'm right in saying that the multiple shabads merging into one(eka naam), occurs after dasam duara is open? correct me if I'm wrong. You may hear the shabads at different stages before hand i.e..prior to dasam duar. But after it's opening, when Waheguru opens the door for you, they are all heard again, together, but this time, they are in pure celebration, Vadiyanh and anand bliss (anand sahib ->Mann Vajia Vadiyanh)

From text... "Priceless Divine Diamonds, Sant Isher Singh ji Rara Sahib" Different perceptions of duality that exist within us, and at different levels.

Have a look at the below thread if you don't understand. Five Tat realization and mastering is the key to conquering Maya in it's completeness. Why did Guru Nanak ji's body vanish and couldn't located? .. because Satguru ji was able to completely dissolve his 5 tat maya sareer, into maya itself, by his own will. Many ancient zen masters have done this as well, and this is how they can do stuff like walk on water, disappear into fire ..etc...all at their own will....... because they've conquered those elements of water and fire.

Interesting. How would you describe or feel this "fear of God"?

Trust me guys, this thing is bigger than you think. I've mentioned on some other thread before and also about why I don't carry no cellphone in my pocket and nor do I keep wifi on 24/7. I see the future plagued by mental health issues as a big problem in society along with cancer. General pollution and contaminants in food destabilise our cells, and this leads to all the crap we suffer. Cellphone, Wi-Fi and broadcasting electronics all emit radiations and these are in your phone's as well. Just because we can't see the crap in the air, we shrug our shoulders. At the end of the day, the mental effects are apparent amongst the young youth of today and it will only get worse. If you want your sukham sareer to be healthy and full active, it makes sense to avoid the many sukham pollutants around you. Everything that is man-made and put into soil, sea and air environments, is in effect displacing something else that is already present(Archimedes-eureka!).Therefore, we are simply screwing with play of nature and causing a shift in natural balance. For that, there will be guaranteed consequences as per hukam. see the below emf link to learn more.... http://toomuchemf.com

EDITED******* disagree with above ^^, that crown chakra or brow chakra will activate nadis everywhere else. Looking back at this post a year later, I am more inclined to NOT recommend focusing on brow or crown chakra as suggested. I firmly understand that one must do "mushakat ghaal" as in ਜਿਨੀ ਨਾਮੁ ਧਿਆਇਆ ਗਏ ਮਸਕਤਿ ਘਾਲਿ ॥ (Jinī nām ḏẖi▫ā▫i▫ā ga▫e maskaṯ gẖāl) and work by the sweat of their brows. One must work from the furnace (Jat pahara Dhiraj suniar) starting from where the breath begins- (Navel). I figure that it's not gurmat and you won't yield "ghariay shabad sachi taksal" if you begin at the finishing point from where you get nishanee of true shabad amrit. I can work through the jap bani lines and gurbani references for tats (fire element) to help explain my current comprehension. ****previous post was as below.... I'm sure that when I came across "dhun me dhyian" and "shabad guru surat dhun chella" and also the understanding of prana (ida, pingla and sukhmana); I became pretty disciplined with stimulating and putting dhyian to navel movement and internal dhun. At the time, my personal progress and results were accelerating uphill and I assume, that is what convinced me. I can't say that mentors of focusing higher up on brow were wrong or not, and it would be foolish if I were to advocate my approach as the be-all-end-all. But I do recall some important rules that I picked up with regards to navel(dhunni) focus.... ....>> 1) your energies can start descending downward from navel, and that would be opposing the path of gurmat. I learned that every meditator should be aware of this and not assume that all experiences will be divine. I feel that this may be a reason that some spiritual coaches advise to avoid below heart area. (radhasoamis, I think) 2) To overcome and avoid any downward path, it is important to keep the prana flow upwards by "listening" to the dhun. Consequently, your dhyian and flow will automatically be upwards if you repeatedly try to stay tuned to your dhun. To me, it highlights some importance of understanding the "dhun" along with navel breathing, in saas graas/saas saas jugtee .

Good stuff. Experiencing the universal central point in any duality is the key to spiritual attainment. Our complete existence is about this and all schools and faiths, have this is common theme that is often not understood. Two opposites that can exist in equal harmony and the points where they merge are where the divine Truth exists. The Yin and Yang symbol is an example since it shows black/white. The line where there is neither black or white, is the sacred truth. Same goes for khanda with miri piri. The line of Truth is the central sharp blade edge on which a Sikh aims to be walking. Walking on this very thin line is walking in hukam.. Black/white, Day/Night, Positive/Negative, Yes/No, North/South, Good/Evil, Still/Moving...etc. is operating constantly in all existence. If we were to look really deeply into all these aspects, we would be able to understand the sacred advait(non-dual). The above video made me realize that amrit vela is also a time that will be peaking with divine non-dual energy. Angelic and perfect time to wash our mind's filth.

I tend to mix the oils. Almond, coconut, olive and few drops of tea tree oil. It's also recommended to mix coconut oil with butter/ghee and olive in your cooking and we tend to this at home. Almond and coconut are very good for consumption (Sattvic), and we also drink more coconut/almond milk compared to regular.

Good video and quite crucial in my opinion. It's also something that the guys at SGPC don't understand, as they have accused some simran groups of using naval-abyaas technique as not being gurmat. Regardless of what they say, I can't understand any other method that you can successfully use to "feel" the mantra. The Navel is the "core" area of the body. By activating mantra in the core is the only way that it can transmit and advance to all your nadis. Subsequently, ajapa jap and rom rom will follow. Its all the same science behind the chakras, yogmat and gurmat..

You don't. Love can never be developed, so don't ever fool yourself into just thinking about what love is. The only way the real prem will sprout, is when you sit down and jap Nirankar's name with absolutely NO conditions.....Just sacrifice and offer yourself to him "tera, tera, tera ..." ... you have to make efforts and changes to do this. After that, it becomes effortless and God will let you know.

I don't think so. It's a pretty high avastha. First, you have to attach to naam, and have naam residing in mind. See the concept of "charan" thread.

Good stuff If we think of Nirankar as a huge sargun God figure, lets say with head, body and feet. For us to experience God, we have to rise up to meet him and be at his upper head level in order to encounter his max grandeur entirety. We are so distanced and lower down that the first part we can grab to take this climb is his charan. His charan are the most extreme and farthermost part of SATch that can reach us lowly earthlings! These charan are the ultimate part of Nirankaar that we may experience first. They are "Naam" and the anhad shabad itself. We want to grab hold of this naam as if a ship, and let it carry us through maya and the turbulent bhavsagar. Hence, "Nanak naam jahaaz hai" Gurbani tells us that we can only start getting purified once we start drinking the amrit that washes the layers off filth on our Mind. For this we need to be holding the shabad(charan)........ ਹਰਿ ਚਰਣੀ ਤੂੰ ਲਾਗਿ ਰਹੁ ਗੁਰ ਸਬਦਿ ਸੋਝੀ ਹੋਈ ॥ Har Charanee Thoon Laag Rahu Gur Sabadh Sojhee Hoee || So grasp the Lord's lotus feet; through the Word of the Guru's Shabad, you shall come to understand ਹਰਿ ਰਸੁ ਰਸਨਾ ਚਾਖੁ ਤੂੰ ਤਾਂ ਮਨੁ ਨਿਰਮਲੁ ਹੋਈ ॥੧॥ ਰਹਾਉ ॥ Har Ras Rasanaa Chaakh Thoon Thaan Man Niramal Hoee ||1|| Rehaao || With your tongue, taste the sublime elixir of the Lord, and your mind shall be rendered immaculately pure. ||1||Pause||

ANG 155 ਗਉੜੀ ਚੇਤੀ ਮਹਲਾ ੧ ॥ Gourree Chaethee Mehalaa 1 || ਅਵਰਿ ਪੰਚ ਹਮ ਏਕ ਜਨਾ ਕਿਉ ਰਾਖਉ ਘਰ ਬਾਰੁ ਮਨਾ ॥ Avar Panch Ham Eaek Janaa Kio Raakho Ghar Baar Manaa || There are five of them, but I am all alone. How can I protect my hearth and home, O my mind? ਮਾਰਹਿ ਲੂਟਹਿ ਨੀਤ ਨੀਤ ਕਿਸੁ ਆਗੈ ਕਰੀ ਪੁਕਾਰ ਜਨਾ ॥੧॥ Maarehi Loottehi Neeth Neeth Kis Aagai Karee Pukaar Janaa ||1|| They are beating and plundering me over and over again; unto whom can I complain? ||1|| There are five Avar panch (Kaam, krodh, lobh, moh ,Ahankaar), and me, I’m on my own. How do I protect my Ghar Baar? In this context, Ghar refers to the house of the Mind-which is in the body, behind eyes. “Baar”, I think translates to gate/entrance of your house. Mind is always looking for its home, but is continuously beaten and plundered by the five. The five do everything to stop mind settling and locking itself in it’s home. “Kis aagai kari pukaar”, Who can I report them to, who can I ask to sort them? This is the question by the mind and for the mind. Understand that the Mind itself is addressing its very own shortcomings and the symptoms from being beaten by the 5 dhoots. The answer follows……. ਸ੍ਰੀ ਰਾਮ ਨਾਮਾ ਉਚਰੁ ਮਨਾ ॥ Sree Raam Naamaa Ouchar Manaa || Chant the Name of the Supreme Lord, O my mind. ਆਗੈ ਜਮ ਦਲੁ ਬਿਖਮੁ ਘਨਾ ॥੧॥ ਰਹਾਉ ॥ Aagai Jam Dhal Bikham Ghanaa ||1|| Rehaao || Otherwise, in the world hereafter, you will have to face the awesome and cruel army of Death. ||1||Pause|| This rahao pangti is crucial. You must ‘ouchar’ and chant the name of sachay patshah. It’s the ONLY way that you can overcome the 5 dhoots. If you do nothing and let them run the show in this life you have, then you certainly won’t be enjoying the show of jamdoots battering you whilst they escort you. Bhagat Kabir ji says on ang 872 ਮਨ ਕੂਟੈ ਤਉ ਜਮ ਤੇ ਛੂਟੈ ॥ Man Koottai Tho Jam Thae Shhoottai || Pounding down his mind, he escapes from the Messenger of Death. “Mann nu kooto”, ….beat it man. Beat the mind if misbehaves under Five’s influence. You either beat it or get prepared to take further beats. Sometimes you hear some sikh groups doing jap quite fast and with force. To some, it may seem aggressive as if over forced. This is actually a technique to beat the struggling mind and scare the dhoots. I recommend when doing silent internal jap, you start doing it loudly and aggressively within, if your mind isn’t settling. This Mind is like no other organ of our body. Nothing else exists that can actually cure and fix itself. Kabir ji says …. ਮਨ ਹੀ ਮਨ ਸਿਉ ਕਹੈ ਕਬੀਰਾ ਮਨ ਸਾ ਮਿਲਿਆ ਨ ਕੋਇ ॥੩੨॥ Man Hee Man Sio Kehai Kabeeraa Man Saa Miliaa N Koe ||32|| Only the mind can deal with the mind; says Kabeer, I have not met anything like the mind. ||32|| ਉਸਾਰਿ ਮੜੋਲੀ ਰਾਖੈ ਦੁਆਰਾ ਭੀਤਰਿ ਬੈਠੀ ਸਾ ਧਨਾ ॥ Ousaar Marrolee Raakhai Dhuaaraa Bheethar Baithee Saa Dhhanaa || God has erected the temple of the body; He has placed the nine doors, and the soul-bride sits within. ਅੰਮ੍ਰਿਤ ਕੇਲ ਕਰੇ ਨਿਤ ਕਾਮਣਿ ਅਵਰਿ ਲੁਟੇਨਿ ਸੁ ਪੰਚ ਜਨਾ ॥੨॥ Anmrith Kael Karae Nith Kaaman Avar Luttaen S Panch Janaa ||2|| She enjoys the sweet play again and again, while the five demons are plundering her. ||2|| Here, it’s helpful to understand the difference between Soul and Mind. In gurbani, these two terms have to be carefully scrutinized with respect to the context. The topic of mind and soul is a huge discussion itself, but there are a few key pointers you can use to help. If you read through very carefully whilst doing vichaar on each line, it should get deeper and deeper. The shabad has already spoken about the “ghar” for the mind. The mind that is getting plundered by the 5 dhoots. Imagine the Mind as homeless in this instance. It doesn’t even know where it’s home (ghar) or gates/entrance(bhaar) are. It can’t even find where the gates are to lock it, as it is outnumbered. pointer here is to note that the home/seat of the mind is in the head behind the eyes. i.e. within the head. But the 5 dhoots do a good job keeping it focused outside. Now, in the above lines, it has mentioned Doors(dhauaree),- the 9 darwajey to the house that God created (ousaar maroli), But now it mentions the woman/bride that he has seated in the created body (Bheethar Baithee Saa Dhhanaa). The maroli is temporary house(maya), created by creator. The bride is the Soul bride, or the atma(she) that is separated from paramatma(him). Her location inside us is sometimes referred to as the hirda. This is the spiritual heart in the middle of the chest. I would assume this in this shabad because it continues to talk about desires and pleasures.(which arise from the heart center) Referring back to the earlier question by the mind “Kis aagai kari pukaar”, Who can I report them to, who can I ask to sort them? Can’t we answer the “the soul bride/atma? Verse 2 says that she enjoys the sweet amrit in this world play again and again. This internal amrit comes from the where the mind should be settled; the mansoravar surrounding the darbar. However, since the 5 dhoots don’t allow the mind to settle inward to even attempt looking for the darbar, the atma/soul bride also faces the consequences, since it doesn’t get the eternal food(amrit). ਢਾਹਿ ਮੜੋਲੀ ਲੂਟਿਆ ਦੇਹੁਰਾ ਸਾ ਧਨ ਪਕੜੀ ਏਕ ਜਨਾ ॥ Dtaahi Marrolee Loottiaa Dhaehuraa Saa Dhhan Pakarree Eaek Janaa || In this way, the temple is being demolished; the body is being plundered, and the soul-bride, left all alone, is captured. ਜਮ ਡੰਡਾ ਗਲਿ ਸੰਗਲੁ ਪੜਿਆ ਭਾਗਿ ਗਏ ਸੇ ਪੰਚ ਜਨਾ ॥੩॥ Jam Ddanddaa Gal Sangal Parriaa Bhaag Geae Sae Panch Janaa ||3|| Death strikes her down with his rod, the shackles are placed around her neck, and now the five have left. ||3|| The body suffers these consequences and it isn’t immortal. The atma-soul bride will eventually have nowhere to reside after the temple collapses. The jamms will still be ordered to beat you, but the 5 dhoots will now be running away, since they will have no work. Guruji continues to warn us not to be under assumption that the 5 dhoots are the only problems. The panj are the main problem for the Mind. But the atma that is separated from Paramatma also has further drawbacks…… ਕਾਮਣਿ ਲੋੜੈ ਸੁਇਨਾ ਰੁਪਾ ਮਿਤ੍ਰ ਲੁੜੇਨਿ ਸੁ ਖਾਧਾਤਾ ॥ Kaaman Lorrai Sueinaa Rupaa Mithr Lurraen S Khaadhhaathaa || The wife yearns for gold and silver, and her friends, the senses, yearn for good food. ਨਾਨਕ ਪਾਪ ਕਰੇ ਤਿਨ ਕਾਰਣਿ ਜਾਸੀ ਜਮਪੁਰਿ ਬਾਧਾਤਾ ॥੪॥੨॥੧੪॥ Naanak Paap Karae Thin Kaaran Jaasee Jamapur Baadhhaathaa ||4||2||14|| O Nanak, she commits sins for their sake; she shall go, bound and gagged, to the City of Death. ||4||2||14|| Kaaman(wife), yearns Suinna rupad (gold silver) jewellery. Due to being separated, a veil of ego covers up the jyot within the atma and atam starts to believe that it is the body. There is ‘’always” a desire in the hirda for some kind of pleasure which can help provide completeness. We begin to believe that the sensory organs of touch, sight, smell and taste may help fulfill these desires. Atma gets fooled into believing that it is the body roop. Dressing in gold and silver start to provide pleasures of image desires. To add, the senses of touch, taste, smell and sight start to desire more pleasures. This is all in the name of trying to fill the heart’s desires. Man will waste a whole lifetime choosing and getting desires for the senses, but the true inner yearn is always for true Naam. Gurbani says.. Eaethae Ras Sareer Kae Kai Ghatt Naam Nivaas ||2|| -these pleasures of the human body are so numerous; how can the Naam, the Name of the Lord, find its dwelling in the heart? ||2|| The shabad makes you realize that it’s not only the 5 dhoots that we have to tackle, but also our desires of the heart. Doesn’t matter if it smells, tastes, looks good or not. We don’t need to be wasting energy into these matters.