Lucky

it's all good I reckon. I assume that when you say 3/4 of way up you would have felt tingling/vibration between throat and heart area? ..It was probably localised in core- middle of the body between cross-section of spinal-back and front of neck area?.. Then, in some people it can either go straight upwards towards upper head, or sometimes upwards and towards center of brows. Seems like the route of sukhmana/central channel from what I gather and is probably part of the activation stages. You are right that it won't be kundalini, because that is a lengthy process than most of us understand. Firstly the channels or gateways begin to open whilst kundalini starts it's awakening...and then after enough awakening/activation, and when there is a pathway open enough for it to travel through, will it begin to rise. Don't worry about 3rd eye opening and all that, because that is another thing that is too often misunderstood and explained. It is no pre-requisite, and it actually occurs in many stages which are mostly different and variable for all of us .... My advice is to stick to "listening" and not visuals. What you are meant to see or be shown, will automatically occur with kirpa whilst your dhyian is on the DHUN of gurmantar. Therefore focus on the DHUN, Gurbani says ਧੁਨਿ ਮਹਿ ਧਿਆਨੁ ਧਿਆਨ ਮਹਿ ਜਾਨਿਆ ਗੁਰਮੁਖਿ ਅਕਥ ਕਹਾਨੀ ॥੩॥ Ḏẖun mėh ḏẖi▫ān ḏẖi▫ān mėh jāni▫ā gurmukẖ akath kahānī. keep focus on dhun and be absorbed in it, then you shall receive the knowledge from this very dhyian on the dhun itself ..thus, the gurmukh speaks and learns the Unspoken speech. (meaning the gyan will come without any words that are ever heard or spoken) Keep going and don't ever let oncoming encounters distract you. Experience them, acknowledge ..and then move on...

Good post ji This is a very misunderstood and misinterpreted area. Although, guest hukam has a valid point, you have given some very good reasoning. It's like a telling a young kid that if they want something, then they should pray to Waheguru and ask. Tell them yes, this almighty is invisible, but he knows and can do everything, even though he can't be seen. The kid's wishes nearly always get fulfilled because the lord wants everyone to build their own foundations of faith. After time. one comes to realise that his hukam and bhana is what prevails, and eventually,you get to a stage where it will feel foolish asking for any worldly needs. This is because you know that the Lord knows what you really need and not what you think you may need. Then your ardas becomes mainly for shakti to get closer to Akal purkakh and forgiveness of all mistakes that one may have made and may make in the present. Mistakes being knowingly and unknowingly. Waheguru

1 minute breath is 20 sec inhale with a long internal Waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaheeeee,....then pause for 20 seconds holding,....... and then a long 20 second Guuuuurrrooooooooooooooooo.......

If it is occurring "during" and "after" meditation, then it is nothing medical to worry about. If it were a medical issue, it would be more noticeable at rest and during other times as well. The tingling sensations are a good sign because it is most likely the energy channels opening up in the extremities. For some of us these prana meridians have to get flowing before it can start rising upwards. I can confirm, because I remember experiencing this myself in the past.

In my opinion, it does matter. Why? Because it makes me question what avastha these saints actually got to if they never heard the raags? If they did hear the raags, then that means they experienced something from the "truth", the satch. Gurbani is the satch and truth itself. So, why would someone say that Guruji never included raagmala as gurbani when these raags are a distinctive step in walking to the Truth. On the journey into satchkhand's darbar, the raags are experienced in a full bliss of anand prior to Akaal Purakh opening the door. in Anand sahib.....after mann vajia vadiyiaan..... ਰਾਗ ਰਤਨ ਪਰਵਾਰ ਪਰੀਆ ਸਬਦ ਗਾਵਣ ਆਈਆ ॥ Rāag raṯan parvār parī▫ā sabaḏ gāvaṇ ā▫ī▫ā. Guruji is telling us that the paria are singing in the raags and these are presented (seen, as well as heard!) in the most beautiful and undescribeable manner that you could ever possibly imagine.

Chanting isn't necessary when there is anhad, especially in the very deep states that are addressed in the OP (ie meditation at the prayag/triveni). I can't explain much further because there are reasons why further avastha states are not discussed.

Shaytaan is the same term as "satan". It is basically a huge negative and dark energy field that uses the powers of taking one from light -->> darkness. Most people that have an average to low state of consciousness(manmuhs) will be influenced and affected by these lower powers. However, a person with a raised consciousness and someone who has ascended towards more light energy as compared to dark ie. from dark-->light, as with help of guru, will be untouched by such energy. On many instances, the bad energy or spell will bounce back multifold to the person trying to send it. The magician himself will always stay out of the energy transfer equation and is unaffected by such spells bouncing back.

Of course there is a judgement day per se. How do you think I came back? :) Judgement day of when your lekha is presented and decided by Dharamraj, occurs for many individuals. Not everyone has the opportunity to be present in the court of the Lord. The very lowly sinners will go directly to narak (escorted by the jamdoots) and will remain there until they learn and realise. The very high avastha gurmukhs bypass all the realms and go directly into warming lap of Waheguru in sachkhand. My personal understanding is that there are many individuals that may have had a good wealth of naam kamayee in previous janams, but in this janam they may have screwed up and accumulated an excess of bad karams and deeds. These are the ones that usually have their fate decided in the presence of Dharamraj and God's angels. Sometimes their previous kamayee may erase or sometimes they may have to be reborn just to bhog some karams. How these are dealt with is all in his hands and depends on what the balance of the lekha is and how the "hasaab" is balanced.

Everyone should be treated as "innocent" until proven guilty. Suspicions and speculations, shouldn't ever come into the equation. 13 year old girls--> Yes, there are 13 year olds in the real world. Problems mentioned in OP about sexism and families spoiling sons and boys etc.--> Yes, there are plenty of these in the real world. Then why would foolishly assume that the op is fabricated? some Sikh men love nothing better than to judge and "play God"

Beware! Not Sikh, don't be confused. This is the son of famous "darshan das" who's behaviour was filthy and disgusting. He was famously shot down by 2 Singhs.

Not "mantar" technique exactly, but the "Naad". It is possible that Guru was born of the "Naad". The naad emanates from Akaal purakh.

I know,...I really know. Of course it's foolish. You can't have your dyaan elsewhere and be uttering God's name expecting forgiveness for sins and acceptance in his court. Yes, this story is referred to in Gurbani and I clearly know that it is always grasped from the wrong end of the stick. Most people and kathavachaks even, talk about the uttering of God's name and how the syllables of "Narayan" helped to clear Ajamal's sins, even though he wasn't meditating on the Lord. The story goes further than this and the message is that after uttering Narayan, Ajamil was saved from the messengers of Dharamraj (the jams) because they were intervened by Lord Vishnu, who claimed he was to protect anyone that utters the name of Narayan. Some debate goes on between them and Dharam and Adharam is discussed..Ajamil witnessed this and came out of this NDE(near death experience). The deeper message was that Ajamil realised and awakened to his senses, awoke to his wrongs, and awoke to who his real maker was. He was now aware that the Lord's name has so much power, and he said to himself "what will happen if I utter it even further and to him directly"?. The message was about showing the dharam and someone(guru) to show the way, it leaves you working out who guru is and how you may need some to guide you from dark-->Light..etc.....Anyway, story goes that Ajamil left and spent the rest of his days in deep meditation to Akaal purakh by some river banks. I believe he attained greater heights in bhakti and was enlightened.(I don't quite remember full details) I know exactly what you are saying, that they all look at stories and texts very literally in all the faiths and just get it wrong. I have loads of meditative interpretations, especially with huge chunks of Christian bible. There is plenty of gurmat in there when you find it. We, the people, are the biggest fools, regardless of dharam.

They are real when you see them and you don't wanna see them coming towards you man, seriously. They appear as if hooded, and if you are unlucky enough to see their faces, ...then God help!...I don't wanna know!. The naraks may be seen or you may just bypass them and just get a weeee glance. Waheguru probably does this to show you what you have just avoided by uttering his name "Narayan" on your last breath. (Ajamila uttered his sons name "Narayan" and was saved from the noose of yama). However, if your dasam is open, then you skip all this shit and go super shuttle express into Akaal Purakhs lap-- Bolaaay soooonihaaal...Saaat sreee Akaaaal .Then you do the ultimate Fateh

The article in OP is good and very close to my own understanding. However, the physical acts of reproduction as a necessity are not my belief and I feel too disrespectful and shamefaced to discuss it. I do understand the power of deep meditation at the prayag(triveni), as Guru Tegh Bahadur ji was at the time. It is quite difficult and I've been attempting it back and forth for quite some time now. I've barely touched the surface of this meditation but it has given me a very firm understanding that Baba Nand Singh ji and Baba Isher Singh had much better experiences and dwellings in this particular trikuti meditation. Some of you may be aware that I have never had any associations or ties with samparda/ jathas as such, but I realised the significance of Nanaksar's Guru Nanak portrait after some of this intense meditation. This is the reason for my profile photo, that I have since used. I'm not knowledgeable enough about the full hemkunt explanation, but I do understand there are some internal peaks within our sukham sareer, that are very cooling. I have a better idea with understanding the internal Amritsar, but the physical representations of both are significant in the manners they express the internal spiritual. .

I feel you're going a little narrow with views instead of being more open minded. To be able to abandon maya and it's constituents at will, is the path to the real Satch, not lala land. Here's a little food for thought; Guru Nanak ji's handprint at panja sahib, The rotation of Mecca, the disappearance of his body and Guru Gobind Singh ji's after death, make sense to me as their capabilities for having complete mastery of 5 tats and the capacity to merge/ dissolve their own 5 tats in the elements around them. The list of events where physical, biological and what we call universal laws, have been broken, goes on.... Baba Deep SIngh ji was able to have complete control because his one-pointed attention was so strong, that even after physiological functions would have collapsed, he was still able to continue. On this note, and with same kind of strong focus, Maresyev- a Russian WWII fighter crawled back to his turf for 18 days in the snow, after his legs had been blown off and mangled. There are many other war stories of where Men had put their minds in such strong one-pointed focus and had achieved the near impossible. Lachmann the gurkha, fought off 200 Japs with only one arm, after losing his other... That's 200 getting slayed with a single arm. The laws that we know as set up, are what we deem as the reality. The reality, is the doer behind the veil that does everything his way...the Truth. The laws that we perceive as the reality set up, are not the real Truth. I'm sure you understand that his same hukam behind the laws, can also move mountains at will and throw rain to the deserts that wish for it. What if you don't? ... Many people, including myself, have miraculously beaten the odds where high chances of non-survival were predicted. Countless numbers of incurable cancer survivors have had tumors completely disappear through faith, prayer and focus. Many kung fu and chi gong master can tolerate incredible amounts of physical infliction. Too often, we underestimate the power of mind over matter. I may have been slightly misunderstood above as trying to stick with a complete non-sexual conception, but I'm actually trying to be open-minded to say that it could be possible. ..............Maybe they did, maybe they didn't. But the fact is that we probably wouldn't understand it due to the "sexual activity" we understand. It would be something beyond our comprehension. They say that the most heightened sukham experience we know of is sexual orgasm. However, the one's that merge with Akaal Purakh, are lifted to much higher states of ecstasy. This goes way beyond any sensual pleasures we could possibly understand. Every possible act in normal life can become sacred, and the highly powered, enlightened, can go beyond the laws that may govern any exhibition of normal acts. We shouldn't be in denial of actions that we may not understand.

Has anyone heard or read somewhere that Guru Tegh Bahadur ji sometimes referred to Guru Gobind Rai as "naadi puttar" ?

I understand what he is saying about Prayag and triveni. However, the physical interaction does not really come into it and it doesn't have to. It's just that our intellect tells us that they must have engaged in physical activity to conceive, whereas they don't. Remember, our bodies are 5 elements and so is maya. If you can go beyond that veil into the Truth, then it is possible to have no engagement in the 5 tat maya in order to bring a pure product of Truth.

@HappyDays I must say that your Grandfather has given you some very interesting points and I understand most of what you have written. He has only revealed the "tip" of the iceberg, because common man wouldn't understand the rest. Seeing the yoghurt alive and everything else, is not exactly what you or most people would interpret -It's not microscopic vision as such or x-ray..... it's actually seeing it alive, active and vibrating. Very difficult to ever explain. I too, have had this perception for a while and I know exactly what he was talking about. It's not just stuff with microorganisms, it is in act everything around you. It actually ties in with the 5 tat thread that was inspired by Bhagat after he mentioned something along the lines of .."existence being continuous and in constant motion from moment to moment" This is because all existence is made up of 5 elements, except the "Truth" behind the veil. You won't understand the water in the bucket until you start 'cleaning' your mind and holding it still. Most of the things you stated, take real experience to understand. It's as if you get there, then feel or see something, and you say to yourself "This is what he meant by the dhayeen being alive, man, I know what he was saying" . We can all "live" the experience, instead of hearing or interpreting it.

I was just kidding you, I'm not the slightest offended. But yes, there are quite a lot of people that speculate and don't actually do anything. You may have misunderstood the 5 tat post because I wasn't talking about visualisations at all. I was clarifying that in gurmat, we start with Air element via pranayama/ saas saas, and the others follow automatically as we continue. It was only when someone asked if you can isolate and attend a different one, and that is when I mentioned the visualisations that yogis use in mountains of Tibet and Himalayas. <- Nothing to do with gurbani messages that I was referring to.

LOL! Really?? How can you tell? ;)

I agree too. I also concluded this from playing around with Ouija boards as a youngster. I had noticed back then, that all the spirits making contact had died before their "destined" human life. They had all died of unnatural causes. The aborted babies that age, will be stuck in between worlds, until the time of destined death comes. This means the pre-ordained times of death, had they still been in human body. There are so many different spirit worlds, but these spirits float around amongst us on this plane. Tthere are also realms and spirit worlds, where they don't age and can remain forever. These spirits are more powerful and some are able to move in-between worlds.

It does depend on your karams, but that doesn't mean it isn't open to everyone. It IS open to everyone that makes the effort. Karams come in when people have bhakti in previous janams. They get a kind of 'kick start' if they decide to make efforts on the path. They start ascending with very little effort, and in no time they reach wherever they may have been at in previous lives. Whereas, someone with little bhakti from the past, will have to do much more to get to the same level. Also need to note that when some mahapurks etc, give you estimations of timescales ie 3hrs/day for 2 years etc,,, they are usually referring to the minimum time for someone who has very little bhakti banked from previous janam. I want to stress this fact because we have too many Sikhs that try simran for a few months and feel that nothing happens. What really happens is that they develop ignorance and more of a "cop-out" attitude saying that "it's not for me, not this lifetime, maybe the next birth" - it's like trying to end a life in a video game, so that you can start again to achieve a better score. Sorry, but bhakti is not like that, because these are what gurbani calls the weak losers, that get battered by the jamdoots during the moments of death. They get chained and dragged to hold their heads in shame at the court of the lord. :) Seriously, if you don't believe me, then, when you are dead, battered, chained and in the court,.... you will be reminded of this very moment, the moment when you had read this post and was this life was your chance to jap naam :) lol....told u so!

I think Ive covered what I was trying to explain above. I would say Air is easier, in the sense that you can do it prior to attempting a water visualization, lets say. Maybe because my reference was in temrs of Air element practice via pranayama and patanjali's definition of inhalation-exhalation. Hope that makes a little more sense. Also, the fact that doing something more practical, since you can't visualise air, would seem a better first choice. I'm not really following this about the overlapping of turiya. My reference to Sunn/primal void is the complete ego-less, self-less state of the Very STILL space before Air came into existence. It is ONLY here that there is no maya since there are NO elements. (This is my understanding from gurbani, unless I've missed or misunderstood pangtees or a shabad) The States you mention that overlap with turiya are actually maya states and I'm certain that Gurbani points in the direction that Turiya is beyond 3 gunnas of maya, which means No elements, no maya. (we can work through the pangtees and even the complete shabads if you wish) I have always understood the 3 gunas as the "trio" mentioned with varying correspondents, in all spiritual paths. Raja Sattva Tamas Activity Truth / Goodness Inertia Passion / desire Light / illumination Darkness Energy Spiritual Essence Mass / matter / heaviness Expansion Upward flow Downward flow Movement Intelligence / Consciousness Sloth / dullness Binds by passion born of craving and attachment. Binds by means of attachment to knowledge and joy. Binds by means of ignorance and obstruction. Is the ruling trait when greed, excessive projects, cravings and restlessness arise. Is the ruling trait when the light of knowledge shines forth. Is the ruling trait when darkness, dullness, stagnation, indolence, confusion, torpor, and inertia appear. 3 gunas correspond to Tamas(inertia), Rajas(dynamic) and Sattva(luminosity) principles. In terms of consciousness Sattva corresponds = WAKING consciousness, Rajas to = DREAMIMG, Tamas to = DEEP SLEEP or Dreamless consciousness. From Wikipedia, .."Turiya is the background that underlies and transcends the three common states of consciousness. The states of consciousness are: waking consciousness, dreaming, and dreamless sleep" To add, In Vedanta this same trio corresponds to ananda(bliss), chit(consciousness) and sat(being), In esoteric buddhism, they correspond to Bliss, illumination and no-thought. In Physics these correspond to Heat, force and light; and in earthly realm they correspond to water, air and sunshine. ( I know this topic gets complicated with all the different demonstrations of how and what corresponds with each other, But I have always tried to keep it simple for my limited intellect, and I thought that it was straightforward with 5 tat relationship?)

There are various visualisation techniques and I haven't looked into them too deeply or attempted them. The enlightened yogis in the mountains of Himalayas and Tibet have done the very difficult earth element visualisations, where they gaze and visualize mountain or inside a cave and then drop into Samadhi for days and weeks. I'm just at elementary stages yet. I have a long way before all my prana is flowing and sukhmana channel is glowing! My real aim is to completely conquer the dhoots and enter His Sanctuary completely clean and that is where I'm trying to direct most of my energy. Surrendering ego and to be baliharey is soo difficult, but it is the Ultimate love energy that you could possibly ever offer.

Note that the above post was my own understanding from what I learned and in relation to gurbani. I will add a little about why the "AIR"? We understand that the Guru Nanakji tells us that Air/pavan is the Guru of Maya because it came first from the primal sunn-samadhi void, yes? Science tells the same ........Before the earth was formed, the universe was just empty space. Empty space still has lots of things in it, but we call it "empty" because it's tremendously still. As to the creation of the material cosmos, eventually the wind element started to arise in this great stillness. Wind represents movement. and In the cosmos, at first the wind element was small, and then gradually it grew larger. The friction of the wind element with itself created the fire element, and the heat of the fire element caused agglomeration so that the water element formed. Eventually the water element cooled and congealed (solidified) to form the earth element, like water transforming into ice, and the earth element contains a all the other elements we know of. With Meditation, the similar process is used, such that pavan/air element is used to get the prana energy activated and open up the nadis(meridians). Prana movements in the body are very similar to the wind movements. Comparing to the other elements of fire, water and Earth, these can be meditated on using various visual techniques. Various techniques and methods exist among zen, Buddhist and Tibetan schools etc..However, Air the Guru of maya, cannot be seen and so a visualisation technique is too difficult. Pranayama is the method for meditating on Air element, and saas saas is also a pranayama. Patanjali defined pranayama as the gap between your inhalation and exhalation, and this gap will occur naturally if you meditate properly or follow your breath properly. Patanjali also goes on further to explain in the definition that “The energy in the body is Prana. By controlling the (AIR) in the motion of the lungs or respiratory organs, we can control the Prana that is vibrating inside. By control of Prana, the mind can be easily controlled, because the mind is fastened to the Prana, like the bird to the string. Just as the bird that is tied to a post by a string, after flying here and there, finds its resting place in the post, so also this mind-bird after running hither and thither, in various sensual objects, finds its resting place during deep sleep in the Prana.” By controlling the Air with application of mantra jap, we can control the Prana to open up and start flowing freely through nadis/meridians. I have stressed previously about the importance of putting attention in between the "space" of inhalation and exhalation and to keep full attention on it when you go into silent slow saas saas simran. This is an excellent practice that also helps to "hold" your attention on the sound of the silent mantra. It is in this space, that the momentous and instant switch to higher states will occur.