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Chaubis Avatar


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I have started reading Chaubis avatar, and i am really fascinated by its content. The purpose of the writing is given in the beginning "Whenever tyrans take birth, God takes avatar to secure Dharma"... Dharma has several meanings such as righteusness, religion and duty and i've noticed that all three aspects are covered as some of the avatars come to establish dharma by fighting a tyrant, whereas others come to help people when dharma in the form of religion has been lost.. Others come to prescribe people of their duties in this life.. I was really fascinated by this as i thought the chaubis avatar was only about fighting tyrants etc... The message is clear : God has and will always people on earth in times of distres.

but my question is.. How much of chaubis avatar are we to belive in when it comes to the personal information regarding the various avatars (like Krishna at the river, Ram Chander throwing his pregnant wife out etc)

there are 24 avatars whereas the first are in animal-form as the world was populated by animals at the time... i tried to find out which one of these avatars were the first sent to human beings, but could'n find the answer. can anyone help me find the answer to this?

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  • 2 weeks later...

I read some of it. It is worth the read. I'm surprised of why such contents are not studied by Sikh vidhvaans.

Oh but it is. but because of Anti-Hindu sentiments that is prevelent in sikh society they won't talk about it openly. Quite a few times in Brum Gyanis will open up to if you decide to talk to them with a willingness to learn rather than to see if they fit into your own views of Sikhi. I spoken to some Granthis a gurdwaras and they have a decent amount of knowledge but no way to express them either out of fear for the commitee, no time given to do katha or whatever other reason.

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Maybe it is because it conflicts with the view of sikhi being a rational religion in accordance with science, whereas other religions are bound my mythology, blind beliefs and weird rituals... If these sikhs hear that God took the form of a fish, a pig, a tortoise etc their image of sikhi being rational will fall to the ground, hence they reject these stories as being pure and simple mythology.

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Maybe it is because it conflicts with the view of sikhi being a rational religion in accordance with science, whereas other religions are bound my mythology, blind beliefs and weird rituals... If these sikhs hear that God took the form of a fish, a pig, a tortoise etc their image of sikhi being rational will fall to the ground, hence they reject these stories as being pure and simple mythology.

I agree there.

If that is the mindset of Sikhs then what difference between them and your typical, scientific minded kala afghana, missionary sikh?

And why should God and his creation be whittled down to a simple rational understanding of humans.?

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however a few years ago i read an article about das avatar by ismaili muslims who say that the das avatar theory is in absolut accordance with darwins theory of evolution. It starts with a fish, then later on a tortoise(an animal that lives on land as well as in water) then half human half animal, and later on to human beings.. They said that das avatar is not so much an historical text that deals with avatars, but rather a text that deals with the history of creation.. quite interesting

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however a few years ago i read an article about das avatar by ismaili muslims who say that the das avatar theory is in absolut accordance with darwins theory of evolution. It starts with a fish, then later on a tortoise(an animal that lives on land as well as in water) then half human half animal, and later on to human beings.. They said that das avatar is not so much an historical text that deals with avatars, but rather a text that deals with the history of creation.. quite interesting

Funny you should mention that as I also read an article from I think some Arya Samaji ( or ot5her such group) that mention the same thing. Just can;t remember where though. basic gist is that the avatars reflect the darwinian evolution of nature. from animals to humans.

Aside question: Assuming the above and if and animal creatures are in narak - as per modern theology- then what caused them to go to narak in the first place if they weren't humans who were able to sin.?

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Hukam, plain and simple. We live through 8,4 life forms and history teaches us that animals lived for a long time before human beings came into existance. But i dont think that animals earn karma, they just live in these forms and follow their base instincts. When they die they move up until they enter the human kingdom at some point.. i dont think there is any karma involved with those souls that travel from the mineral kingdom, -> animal kingdom -> human kingdom.. i think that the souls who travel the opposite way are taking these bodies due to karma... im not sure though, but this is what i read once

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Who says Sikh is meant to be reconciliatory with science? Sikhi (Gur-Shabd) is Puran and Akaal, science is not, it's forever changing.

24 Avtar and other great stories that Maharaj has chosen to re-write, were given to us for reasons of moral lesson, inspirtation, courage and artistic exemplification - setting an open minded, intellectual benchmark for us to follow in terms of in depth study and correct understanding. They are not supposed to reflect actual history, and if this indirectly happens, this isn't the point of their utilisation by 10th Master (in my opinion, inc Bachitar Natak). Guru Sahiban were not historians or scientists, they were parmatma ka roop.

Real Sikh Vidvaans like Sant Singh Maskeen were well versed in all the Indic traditions, and didn't give a hoot what commitees (inc SGPC at Sri Harimandhir Sahib) had to say.

Todays employed gyani/paati are majboor, most need to earn a living to feed their families, whilst living a Gurmukh life, having plenty of knowledge, but not being able to share it due to anpar pardaans.

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But i dont think that animals earn karma, they just live in these forms and follow their base instincts. When they die they move up until they enter the human kingdom at some point.. i dont think there is any karma involved with those souls that travel from the mineral kingdom, -> animal kingdom -> human kingdom.. i think that the souls who travel the opposite way are taking these bodies due to karma... im not sure though, but this is what i read once

Amardeep, karma is a action. They are both good and bad actions. I believe even the animals are effect by karma and have some sort of Dharma or way of life?

How does the bee know how to collect honey?

How does the lioness care for her cub?

What will happend if the lioness willingly leaves her cub?

I beleve doing good will bring you a better after life or maybe even salvation? I could be wrong.

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I disagree - according to Gurbani, actions commited in this 'kapra' determin our circumstances through the joon and our next 'placement' as an insaan.

It's this logical. It's only our actions in the human form alone, that can give us azaadi. Same way, it can therefore only make sense, that it is our actions in this form, that don't give us azaadi. Everything is determined in this blessed form.

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  • 12 years later...
On 1/15/2009 at 11:14 PM, SURYADEV said:

 

 

I agree there.

If that is the mindset of Sikhs then what difference between them and your typical, scientific minded kala afghana, missionary sikh?

And why should God and his creation be whittled down to a simple rational understanding of humans.?

Those Sikhs are extreamist.. True Sikhs understand Divinity.. Infact if you have any knowledge of Sikhi, you will know that The Sikh Gurus were the very embodiment of the divine lord, they were the travelling light of Divine lord various incidents and Gurbani of both Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji and Sri Dasam Granth Ji prove this..

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