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SURYADEV
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Anyone heard of the village 'Chokran' its in, or near, Husiarpur. the reason i ask is that there was a sant that resided there. They say he was like Raja Sahib ji.

LOOOL. Mit, your stealing my stage.....I was gonna ask the exact same thing. :LOL:

In Bhangal, there is an Udasi sadhu who resides there in a small kutia. Many decades ago there was a mandalai of them. My great grandfather used to do there seva. They have all passed on but only one remains. One of the older sadhus was called Baba Gokal Das.

Anyone know anything about them.???? Strange that I have been to my pind many a time and only now do I know of them. They donot mix in with people too much but do on the odd occasion come for walkies into the pind.

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LoL!!! Sorry Bro. Yeah, there was a sant, people used to call his 'sant doo guttan wale'. the reason for this name is because he had to long plats and his hear was matted. he used to swear alot and he used to have thousands of people come to see him. He never let people touch his feet, and he used to swear alot. he never accepted money and when people used to give him money, he used to throw it in fire or used to tell the to go. I have spoke to some one that used to do seva there and they say that once they went to his poora and saw his body in pieces. 2 days later he came out of his poora. he used to sit for days upon end doing bhakti.

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LoL!!! Sorry Bro. Yeah, there was a sant, people used to call his 'sant doo guttan wale'. the reason for this name is because he had to long plats and his hear was matted. he used to swear alot and he used to have thousands of people come to see him. He never let people touch his feet, and he used to swear alot. he never accepted money and when people used to give him money, he used to throw it in fire or used to tell the to go. I have spoke to some one that used to do seva there and they say that once they went to his poora and saw his body in pieces. 2 days later he came out of his poora. he used to sit for days upon end doing bhakti.

I've heard of dho gutaa wala Sant. Anyone have a photo of him?

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I can't imagine the Gurus swearing and neither is there any sakhis that refer to them doing so or other Bhagats or Sants. Maybe the Gurbani instructions to be mithbol is just meant for common people and not this sant man, he's mast man, only a brahmgiani knows man yeah man! He's like way beyond the 101 he's like 10001 and that ain't no binary number man!

Chances are the guy probably has touretts syndrome so it's not his fault he's afflicted or he is just some eilti who wants to see how long he can take the p*ss out of the idiots who follow him and when will one of them have the common sense to say, how can this guy be a sant when he's a potty mouth! Emperor's new clothes come to mind!

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"Maybe the Gurbani instructions to be mithbol is just meant for common people"

Either you are not a common person or are just a plain hypocrite.

Going by your logic, show me where Guru Sahiban have insulted Islam and their Prophet to the extent that you do. One would think that insulting Islam was the Gur-Mantar you were given, as you seem to do it saas graas.

The many Muslim friendships, disciples and Baba Farid Ji's bani must be such thorns in your side.

If yuo wish to get a real idea of the complex relatinship between Guru's Darbar and that of the 'different' rulers, I suggest you read 'The Darbar of the Sikh Gurus' by Louis Fenech.

Things aren't as black and white as you make out.

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Shaheediyan,

I think you confuse mithbol with being PC about everything you come across. Like all ultra PC people you do not understand that criticising something is not the same as hating. This isn't just a criticism of you but many Sikhs on the forums think that just because you do not accept all the liberal hogwash about Islam being a religion of peace then automatically you get termed a hater. It shows a limited view of the world and in some cases I have found PC people to be most intolerant of anyone with a different viewpoint. Where have I insulted Islam? I have used the same sources that Muslims use and which are accepted as salih by the Sunnis. Just because these sources do not propagate the 'peaceful' religion as you see it then it does not make them wrong and you right.

Why should the people of Muslim background who were friends of the Gurus be thorns on my side? If you look at the way personages such as Budhu Shah, Bhai Mardana, Rai Bular behaved and compare it with what behaviour is expected in the Quran and the Hadiths then either these personages did not follow the Quran or Hadiths or the Quran and Hadiths have all be translated incorrectly. Friendship with non-Muslims in discouraged in Islam unless the it is for the sake of Dawa or propogation of Islam. I don't see anywhere where these personages were using their friendship with the Gurus in order to try and convert the Gurus to their religion. So where does that leave us? Either these personages were ignorant of their own religion or they did not practise Islam. In the case of Bhai Mardana it can even be argued that he was a Sikh. Bhai Gurdas mentions hia Sikhs of the Guru.

I believe true Islam to be sunni Islam and not the airey fairy Shia Islam of Bahadur or Sufi Islam or even the Islam of the Ahmedis. As you can see there is no contradiction in what I believe.

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"exegis of Bachittar Natak where all Sikh scholars and Mahapurakhs have accepted mahdeen to be Mohammed"

I wasn't aware that 'ALL' sikh scholars and Mahapurkhs had given their own translations/understandings of this bani. Would you care to give us a list of references.

"I believe true Islam to be sunni Islam and not the airey fairy Shia Islam of Bahadur or Sufi Islam"

Who gives a ... what you think. What does Sri Dasam Granth Sahib say...

ਹਿੰਦੂ ਤੁਰਕ ਕੋਊ ਰਾਫਜੀ ਇਮਾਮ ਸਾਫੀ ਮਾਨਸ ਕੀ ਜਾਤਿ ਸਬੈ ਏਕੈ ਪਹਿਚਾਨਬੋ ॥

And is this exact topic not discussed in Bhai Manni Singhs Janam Sakhis...

And with regards to your consistant efforts to catalogue everything:

ਕਰਤਾ ਕਰੀਮ ਸੋਈ ਰਾਜਕ ਰਹੀਮ ਓਈ ਦੂਸਰੋ ਨ ਭੇਦ ਕੋਈ ਭੂਲਿ ਭ੍ਰਮ ਮਾਨਬੋ ॥

By your attitude of negative critism of the Prophet and Islam - you imply it is a false path created by a false prophet - if that was the case then why would Bhai Gurdas Ji say "ਮਾਰਫਤੀ ਮਾਰੂਫ ਲਖ ਹਕ ਹਕੀਕਤਿ ਹੁਕਮਿ ਸਮਾਣੇ ।"?

"Where have I insulted Islam?" by Tonyhp

Quote of the year - you even leapfrog the old Donkey Dubbya . Try doing a SA search under "Tonyhp", enjoy. lol

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"ਫਰੀਦਾ ਬੇ ਨਿਵਾਜਾ ਕੁਤਿਆ ਏਹ ਨ ਭਲੀ ਰੀਤਿ ॥

ਕਬਹੀ ਚਲਿ ਨ ਆਇਆ ਪੰਜੇ ਵਖਤ ਮਸੀਤਿ ॥੭੦॥

ਉਠੁ ਫਰੀਦਾ ਉਜੂ ਸਾਜਿ ਸੁਬਹ ਨਿਵਾਜ ਗੁਜਾਰਿ ॥

ਜੋ ਸਿਰੁ ਸਾਂਈ ਨਾ ਨਿਵੈ ਸੋ ਸਿਰੁ ਕਪਿ ਉਤਾਰਿ ॥੭੧॥ "

“O Benimaza (prayer less) dog, this is not a proper way of life. You never come to the Mosque for five times prayers. Get up O Farid, wash your face, hands and legs, and offer the Nimaz in the morning. The head, which does not bow to the Sayeen (God), cut it off (own head) and remove that head. The head, which does not bow before the Sayeen, what is the use of such head? Burn it under the earthen pot in place of firewoodâ€.

Hazrat Baba Shiekh Farid - A Sufi (sacred to the Sikhs) who practiced Islam.

"Either these personages were ignorant of their own religion or they did not practise Islam."

Wrong on both counts. But I am sure you will dream up another theory.

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"ਫਰੀਦਾ ਬੇ ਨਿਵਾਜਾ ਕੁਤਿਆ ਏਹ ਨ ਭਲੀ ਰੀਤਿ ॥

ਕਬਹੀ ਚਲਿ ਨ ਆਇਆ ਪੰਜੇ ਵਖਤ ਮਸੀਤਿ ॥੭੦॥

ਉਠੁ ਫਰੀਦਾ ਉਜੂ ਸਾਜਿ ਸੁਬਹ ਨਿਵਾਜ ਗੁਜਾਰਿ ॥

ਜੋ ਸਿਰੁ ਸਾਂਈ ਨਾ ਨਿਵੈ ਸੋ ਸਿਰੁ ਕਪਿ ਉਤਾਰਿ ॥੭੧॥ "

“O Benimaza (prayer less) dog, this is not a proper way of life. You never come to the Mosque for five times prayers. Get up O Farid, wash your face, hands and legs, and offer the Nimaz in the morning. The head, which does not bow to the Sayeen (God), cut it off (own head) and remove that head. The head, which does not bow before the Sayeen, what is the use of such head? Burn it under the earthen pot in place of firewoodâ€.

Hazrat Baba Shiekh Farid - A Sufi (sacred to the Sikhs) who practiced Islam.

"Either these personages were ignorant of their own religion or they did not practise Islam."

Wrong on both counts. But I am sure you will dream up another theory.

Calm down Shaheediyan, you will burst a blood vassal if you are not careful! There is no need for me to dream up any theories. Just read the Gurbani in context and not just cut and paste without have a thorough understanding as you are doing.

You are of course are well aware that Guru Arjan composed a Slok to Baba Farid which, if Baba Farid was truely practiced Islam would be anathema for Baba Farid. Since you are fond of cutting and pasting Gurbani then I assume you will know which Slok it is and hence why I am surprised that you would make such claim. I will give you a clue, it's about the separation between the Creator and his Creation!

No doubt you are also aware of the corrective Slok that Guru Nanak also composed in response to Baba Farid's sloks.

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No doubt you are also aware of the corrective Slok that Guru Nanak also composed in response to Baba Farid's sloks.

Is it response, correction or explaining the shabad?

Are you implying here that hymns in Guru Granth Sahib are claims by muslims and then responses by our Masters (just like being done a lot lately through websites by fanatics of different faiths) ?

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"ਫਰੀਦਾ ਬੇ ਨਿਵਾਜਾ ਕੁਤਿਆ ਏਹ ਨ ਭਲੀ ਰੀਤਿ ॥

ਕਬਹੀ ਚਲਿ ਨ ਆਇਆ ਪੰਜੇ ਵਖਤ ਮਸੀਤਿ ॥੭੦॥

ਉਠੁ ਫਰੀਦਾ ਉਜੂ ਸਾਜਿ ਸੁਬਹ ਨਿਵਾਜ ਗੁਜਾਰਿ ॥

ਜੋ ਸਿਰੁ ਸਾਂਈ ਨਾ ਨਿਵੈ ਸੋ ਸਿਰੁ ਕਪਿ ਉਤਾਰਿ ॥੭੧॥ "

“O Benimaza (prayer less) dog, this is not a proper way of life. You never come to the Mosque for five times prayers. Get up O Farid, wash your face, hands and legs, and offer the Nimaz in the morning. The head, which does not bow to the Sayeen (God), cut it off (own head) and remove that head. The head, which does not bow before the Sayeen, what is the use of such head? Burn it under the earthen pot in place of firewood”.

Hazrat Baba Shiekh Farid - A Sufi (sacred to the Sikhs) who practiced Islam.

"Either these personages were ignorant of their own religion or they did not practise Islam."

Wrong on both counts. But I am sure you will dream up another theory.

But is the Nimaz that is being metioned here the same Nimaz the practicing Muslims do or is it the Nimaz mentioned by Guru Jee in Sri Guru Granth Sahib Jee?

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It must be the muslim way of doing namaz as it talks about doing morning ablutions and going to the mosque.

Perhaps we read everything too literally. Many Islamic and Hindu terms have been redefined by the Gurus to mean something else. This is what Satguru Jee says:

Let compassion be your mosque

Devotion your prayer mat

Truth and fair play the Q’ran

Let your modesty be your circumcision

And courtesy the fast of a Mussalman

Let your conduct be your Ka’aba

Rectitude your guide.

And good deeds your creed and prayer

The rosary should be what pleases Him

Thus would He vindicate your name fair. (Raag Majh Slok)

I beleive this is the kind of Mussalman Baba Farid Jee was.

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It is possible as some shabads in Gurbani are meant to be read metaphoricly instead of literaly. The problem however is, how do you that you dont take it to far? I read a shabad once that said something like "the best of deeds is to praise the Lord".. does that mean that whenever Gurbani talks of doing good deeds, it talks about simran? should we just give up doing good deeds and concentrate on meditation alone? no.

i cant find that shabad right now but here is another

Chanting, deep meditation, austere self-discipline, good deeds and other techniques to being peace - they are not equal to even a tiny bit of the Lord's Name.

Guru Arjan Dev

Here it says that good deeds are worth nothing, so does it mean we should just give up doing good deeds and meditate instead?

The same way that you have answered no, the same way it can be said that this "mosque" that Baba Fareed ji is talking about,- is'nt compassion. The good deeds are good deeds, and the mosque is a mosque

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