laalsingh Posted February 2, 2009 Report Share Posted February 2, 2009 "It is said that after Muhammad and the prophets revelation does not descend upon anyone else. Why not? In fact it does, but then it is not called 'revelation.' It is what the Prophet referred to when he said, 'The believer sees with the Light of God.' When the believer looks with 'The believer sees with the Light of God.' When the believer looks with God's Light, he sees all things: the first and the last, the present and the absent. For how can anything be hidden from God's Light? And if something is hidden, then it is not the Light of God. Therefore the meaning of revelation exists, even if it is not called revelation." Fihi ma fihi [Discourses of Rumi] quoted from William C. Chittick, The Sufi Path of Love: The Spiritual Teachings of Rumi 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morghe Sahar Posted February 2, 2009 Report Share Posted February 2, 2009 The difference is that Mohammad (pbuh) is the last law giving prophet. After him it is the Holy Imams (as) and the auliya (ra) or saints who are the vehicles of divine guidance. Baba Nanak (ra) is one such saint. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SURYADEV Posted February 2, 2009 Report Share Posted February 2, 2009 Morghe Sahar Just to digress Are the general population or Shia religious communities in Iran aware of Baba Nanak in Persia? How do they percieve him? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morghe Sahar Posted February 2, 2009 Report Share Posted February 2, 2009 You mean Iran? Pars is just a region in Iran and not all Iranians are Persians. The overwhelming majority has never heard of Baba Nanak except for the heads of important Sufi orders who happen to know his spiritual lineage. They have references to the dervish who initiated Baba Nanak on the path thanks to the works describing the lineages for each region and period. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mithar Posted February 2, 2009 Report Share Posted February 2, 2009 You mean Iran? Pars is just a region in Iran and not all Iranians are Persians. The overwhelming majority has never heard of Baba Nanak except for the heads of important Sufi orders who happen to know his spiritual lineage. They have references to the dervish who initiated Baba Nanak on the path thanks to the works describing the lineages for each region and period. Who was that Dervish who 'initiated' Guru Nanak Dev jee? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morghe Sahar Posted February 2, 2009 Report Share Posted February 2, 2009 You'll find out soon I have other articles to finish in the meantime. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
laalsingh Posted February 2, 2009 Author Report Share Posted February 2, 2009 When the believer looks with God's Light, he sees all things: All things means including the laws. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kam1825 Posted February 2, 2009 Report Share Posted February 2, 2009 Bahadur just because some dervishes state a lineage does not mean it is the truth. Anyway you said ages ago on the forum, possibly before Sheikh Cerny committed suicide that Sri Guru Nanak Dev Ji married a muslim female and had two daughters but i still not seen any proof for that yet! 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mithar Posted February 2, 2009 Report Share Posted February 2, 2009 Bahadur just because some dervishes state a lineage does not mean it is the truth. Anyway you said ages ago on the forum, possibly before Sheikh Cerny committed suicide that Sri Guru Nanak Dev Ji married a muslim female and had two daughters but i still not seen any proof for that yet! I suspect it’s because it is all a part of his very creative (yet entertaining) imagination. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morghe Sahar Posted February 2, 2009 Report Share Posted February 2, 2009 He may see the laws but it's another thing to have the permission to give them to mankind. Baba Nanak (ra) didn't come with a shaira. He, like Rumi, Hafez, Hallaj and Kabir came with a spiritual message. Laws are given by law giving prophets such as Moses (as) and Mohammad (pbuh). 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morghe Sahar Posted February 2, 2009 Report Share Posted February 2, 2009 Kam1825 wrote: "Bahadur just because some dervishes state a lineage does not mean it is the truth. Anyway you said ages ago on the forum, possibly before Sheikh Cerny committed suicide that Sri Guru Nanak Dev Ji married a muslim female and had two daughters but i still not seen any proof for that yet!" 1. Could please refrain from mentionning the circumstances of my friend's tragic death as desired by his family. Thank you. 2. I don't live in London anymore and so I don't have the opportunity to check the SOAS library where the book is found. 3. Indeed you're right. Just because some Nimtullahi dervishes write that Baba Nanak was a dervish doesn't make it true. Samewise just because some Sikhs write that he wasn't a Muslim despite going to Mekka doesn't make it true either. Mithar wrote: "I suspect it’s because it is all a part of his very creative (yet entertaining) imagination." The book and the reference exist and I will comment on it in the future but at the moment I have three articles to finish. So if you don't mind be patient and learn French. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mithar Posted February 2, 2009 Report Share Posted February 2, 2009 Kam1825 wrote: "Bahadur just because some dervishes state a lineage does not mean it is the truth. Anyway you said ages ago on the forum, possibly before Sheikh Cerny committed suicide that Sri Guru Nanak Dev Ji married a muslim female and had two daughters but i still not seen any proof for that yet!" 1. Could please refrain from mentionning the circumstances of my friend's tragic death as desired by his family. Thank you. 2. I don't live in London anymore and so I don't have the opportunity to check the SOAS library where the book is found. 3. Indeed you're right. Just because some Nimtullahi dervishes write that Baba Nanak was a dervish doesn't make it true. Samewise just because some Sikhs write that he wasn't a Muslim despite going to Mekka doesn't make it true either. Mithar wrote: "I suspect it’s because it is all a part of his very creative (yet entertaining) imagination." The book and the reference exist and I will comment on it in the future but at the moment I have three articles to finish. So if you don't mind be patient and learn French. Are the articles in French? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chatanga1 Posted February 2, 2009 Report Share Posted February 2, 2009 Didnt Baba Nanak(sa) tell the muslims not to get bogged down in the shari'a? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morghe Sahar Posted February 2, 2009 Report Share Posted February 2, 2009 Dear Mithar, I mostly write in French nowadays be it academically or be it for the Iranian press (there is an Iranian francophone magazine for which I write). Dear Chatanga1, there is no passage in gurbani addressed to Muslims that says Muslims should give up divine law. All Baba Nanak (ra) was emphacize the spiritual aspect of things that many people had forgotten. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chatanga1 Posted February 2, 2009 Report Share Posted February 2, 2009 i cant remmeber exactly , but there is a line saying something like " shari'a na bano ghulam" dont be slaves to shari'a. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morghe Sahar Posted February 3, 2009 Report Share Posted February 3, 2009 Imam Khomeini (ra) himself said that there is a point where excessive clinging to shari'a can be an obstacle on the mystic's way to God. That doesn't mean you stop following shari'a. It means you have to see it as a means not the aim. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malwe Da Sher Posted February 3, 2009 Report Share Posted February 3, 2009 This book of reference - its not the janamsakhi written by the minas (or one of the other groups) was it? The purpose of that text was to discredit the Gurus to claim their own leader as the legitimate, using that text to say Guru Nanak Dev Ji had a muslim wife is well shady. Thats the earliest, and probably only, to mention so. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
amardeep Posted February 3, 2009 Report Share Posted February 3, 2009 rumi is lovely 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
laalsingh Posted February 3, 2009 Author Report Share Posted February 3, 2009 Imam Khomeini (ra) himself said that there is a point where excessive clinging to shari'a can be an obstacle on the mystic's way to God. That doesn't mean you stop following shari'a. What else does it mean? Imam is stating it can be an obstacle . So if it is an obstacle, why cling to it? You are doing exactly same what he is warning you about. People spend so much time discussing means, they forget about aim. Laws are irrelevant after you passed first stage. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
amardeep Posted February 3, 2009 Report Share Posted February 3, 2009 Sharia is like a cane for a man with a broken leg.. When you learn to walk by yourself you get rid of the cane.. untill then, you stick by it. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morghe Sahar Posted February 4, 2009 Report Share Posted February 4, 2009 It isn't sharia that is the obstacle it's the excessive reliance on fiqh without akhlaq i.e. the clinging of a sharia without a soul that is an obstacle. Shari'a isn't a cane for a man with a broken leg, it is God's law for all mankind. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
amardeep Posted February 4, 2009 Report Share Posted February 4, 2009 Lol.. you were the one who told me the analogy with the cane and the broken leg 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malwe Da Sher Posted February 4, 2009 Report Share Posted February 4, 2009 LOL... sounds about right Amardeep 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shaheediyan Posted February 4, 2009 Report Share Posted February 4, 2009 MLOL I think its a good analogy Bahadur. 1 point to you. Although it's not the law for all mankind, just the law for 'most' Muslims really. But then again it depends which school of Sharia one is talking about... then it depends on what category of Muslim you are i.e. Sunni, Shia etc.. nothing is simple is it... 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morghe Sahar Posted February 4, 2009 Report Share Posted February 4, 2009 Shaheediyan, let me give you an example: Suicide is haram. Suppose a man or woman reaches the height of enlightenment and commits suicide? That person has gone against God's law. The first pauri of Japuji Sahib confirms that this is not possible. Neither meditating for thousands of years, or ataining absolute purity is the basis. First and foremost is total obedience to God's orders (hukm) and to be in his acceptance (ridha). This is why shari'a is for all mankind. When I speak of shari'a here I am talking by the summ total of all laws that God sent humanity via legislative prophets such as Moses, Mohammad, Abraham etc. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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