Suitation In Iran?

[SAadmin]

I just like to find our members thoughts on whats happening in Iran lately?

State Gov't are guilty of killing so many protesters recently. They banned forgein journalist, here is the chilling news of state gov't officials killing iranian protester - An unintentional martyr/shahid: Neda becomes 'symbol of goodness'-

http://www.cbc.ca/world/story/2009/06/22/f-neda-iran.html

I would like to invite ishraqi veer to put his insight on this forum and what he thinks about the recent mischievous elections.

[Sat Chit Anand]

It looks like Ahmadinejad will carry on embarrassing Iranians with his lack of tact and diplomacy. The economy will get worse, unemployment will carry on rising, and people's freedom will continue to be restricted. The corrupt mullahs in Iran will continue to get richer where as people will remain poor. I feel sorry for the Iran people.

The election was fixed

[Mekhane'ch Jannat]

The economy will get worse, unemployment will carry on rising, and people's freedom will continue to be restricted

Sounds like whats happening in the UK!

[Mithar]

It seems like a another Iranian revolution. But this time, it is time for the Mullahs to go.

[tonyhp32]

It's mostly hype. You don't fight the mullahs with slogans like 'allah hu akbar'! That Moussavi guy is as bad as Ahmedinejad, he is for an Iranian nuclear bomb as well as having been instrumental in spreading Iranian/Shia influence into Lebanon and amongst the Palestinians through Hamas. Change will only come when the common people go beyond the Moussavi-Ahmedinejad tussle and begin a movement for true freedom. However there is a slight possibility that if the mullahocracy continues with it's oppression then the protesters may begin understand that you can't fight Islamic oppression with Islam.

[HSD1]

its near 2012 isnt it? anyone else see the significance? maybe they are all protesting because they want to be sikh!?!? then kaljug will end as we will have one big dharam yudh and batter everyone!! if i'm right.

[Weedol]

An alliance of the UK, USA and Israel is obviously involved in a plot to cause the destabilisation of Iran, and using the election as a pretext to do so. Check these links:

http://www.infowars.com/bbc-caught-in-mass...ran-propaganda/

http://www.chartingstocks.net/2009/06/proo...an-via-twitter/

http://www.globalresearch.ca/index.php?con...a&aid=13833

The information coming through on the BBC and other press outlets has been heavily distorted. There is absolutely no mass movement against the foundations of wilayat-e faqih or the constitution of the Islamic Republic. None of the presidential candidates stand for the dissolution of the Islamic Republic, and all of them have held prominent positions in the government of the Islamic Republic (2 former Presidents and 1 prime minister i.e. Moussavi).

It's also interesting the way that before the elections, the BBC and Reuters reported that Ahmadinejad had more than a double lead in the polls over the next candidate, but they later turned partisan in the post-election period.

[Mithar]

An alliance of the UK, USA and Israel is obviously involved in a plot to cause the destabilisation of Iran, and using the election as a pretext to do so. Check these links:

http://www.infowars.com/bbc-caught-in-mass...ran-propaganda/

http://www.chartingstocks.net/2009/06/proo...an-via-twitter/

http://www.globalresearch.ca/index.php?con...a&aid=13833

The information coming through on the BBC and other press outlets has been heavily distorted. There is absolutely no mass movement against the foundations of wilayat-e faqih or the constitution of the Islamic Republic. None of the presidential candidates stand for the dissolution of the Islamic Republic, and all of them have held prominent positions in the government of the Islamic Republic (2 former Presidents and 1 prime minister i.e. Moussavi).

It's also interesting the way that before the elections, the BBC and Reuters reported that Ahmadinejad had more than a double lead in the polls over the next candidate, but they later turned partisan in the post-election period.

Bahadur, could it be that maybe the Iranians are just tired of the Mullahs? Is it any wonder that despite the Ayatollah telling/ordering the protesters not to protest, they are not listening to the supreme leader or even beleiving him that it was a 'fair election'. They dont have fear of the Ayatollah anymore. That is how it began with the Shah during the 70s.

[Weedol]

I'm beginning to think this forum is obsessed with Bahadur. I am not him.

Iranians love and respect the Supreme Leader - Iran is not a dictatorship. The protests were by and large peaceful, but when a tiny minority of 2000 or 3000 turned violent (some of these were armed) and began targeting public property and members of the public, the government stepped in to disperse the protests.

The Shah was deposed because of his abuse of the clergy and the Islamic sentiments of the people. The IRI is the very opposite of the Shah's regime.

[Mekhane'ch Jannat]

Any information that is hammered into the public by the western media should be considered to be filtered by a system that promotes western corporate interests. There is a complex system in place that distorts any information into a sick parody of the truth. Whereas I do not know about the situation in Iran, I do know not to trust our media. Noam Chomsky has done excellent work on exposing our media see manufacturing consent.

[amardeep]

It is interesting to see what is happening in Iran these days. I think the government and wiliyat faqig will be overthrown and civil war will emerge... sad ...

as others have stated, if the population respected the words of the mullah's they would have stopped protesting after Ayatollah Khamanai told them to stop.. they clearly did'n which means they've had enough of the mullahs and basijis

[Weedol]

Mekhane'ch Jannat is absolutely right.

The excellent 'Manufacturing Consent' documentary can be seen here:

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-5631882395226827730

On the remarks by Amardeep, I fundamentally disagree. There was a cessation of rioting in Tehran following Ayatollah Khamenei's speech accompanied by appropriate actions to enforce order where absolutely necessary, and violent elements comprised a very small minority of troublemakers, some of whom have been apprehended and have given insightful information as to who was behind them. In case people think it's all propaganda, there was a lot of video and camera evidence showing organised groups attempting to storm a base held by security forces with the intention of seizing munitions. These violent people were very much in a minority. A really tiny number.

I believe this article is a fair analysis of the situation regarding the political conditions in Iran right now:

http://www.understandingiran.com/2009/06/i...to-another.html

[tonyhp32]

Weedol,

I don't think that the demonstrations are due to western powers meddling in Iran. The initial demos appeared to be genuine and an outcome of the brief period of freedom enjoyed during the election campaign. Your contention that the protesters ceased their demonstrations because the ubermullah asked them to is patently false. Using the Police and Bassij thugs to shoot and beat people tends to have the effect of clearing the streets of demonstrators. One wonders how many millions will come onto the streets if there was no threat from the Police or Bassij.

[Mithar]

The Ahmadinjad supporters will obviously be blaming the evil Zionists for the protests. They cannot face the fact that almost 2/3 of the population is under 30 yrs of age, they cannot identify with the 1979 anti-Shah revolution since they have no memories of it, they want more freedom. Iranians are modern people, they are not culturally as conservative as the Arabs or South Asian Muslims. Ahmadinajad is an embarrassment to Iranians with his most politically incorrect statements, especially about the holocaust.

[Weedol]

Of all the people who stood as presidential candidates, Ahmadinejad has the most youthful. His very support base is from the youth. The whole appeal of Ahmadinejad to the young voters is his long history of involvement in student politics and student movements. He comes from student activism.

I think you will find that it's not necessary to remember the 1979 Revolution to realise what it meant. Shah's days are completely finito.

In my experience, real Iranians (the ones who live in Iran) are culturally conservative. Arabic, Qur'an, Islam, Persian classical poetry are all taught in schools as compulsory parts of the curriculum. Shi'ite Islam is an integral part of the modern Iranian identity. This does not stem from 1979 but goes all the way back to Shah Ismail I. In the post-Qajar period of the 20th century, the political landscape of Iran was turbulent due to two world wars and the deeply unpopular Pahlavis. The Qajars were absolute monarchists, and when the light faded on their dynasty and in reaction to their totalitarianism, there was a constitutional reform movement at the beginning of the 20th century. The reformists wanted a written constitution and some limited representation of the people, but also to give Islamic law supremacy over the elected majlises and the Shah, and this was enshrined in the 1906 Constitution. They also wanted to give the Shi'ite clergy primacy over both the majlis and the Shah. When this was not observed, there were mass popular uprisings and the majlis was destroyed twice.

That's how deeply entrenched Islam is in the Iranian psyche. Since the Safavid period, the Iranian people have rejected incursions of western liberalism, culture and politics.

Regarding the 'holocaust', the problem is that this has worked perfectly to suit the agenda of Zionism and has been used to justify the colonisation of a significant part of the Middle East. Ahmadinejad has not denied the holocaust but has suggested that it needs to be re-examined critically. This is a process that has never taken place. It's not an unreasonable demand, and when he makes it it's with the mandate of over 40 million Iranians.

[Ishraqi]

I have just returned from Qom where the council of experts has assembled.I am back in Tehran now. There have indeed been irregularities in some 50 cities by the council's own admission. I am afraid you guys simply don't get it. The overwhelming majority of the people protesting don't want an end to the Islamic republic, many come from very pious families of all classes. The Western media may present the events as some anti-IRI movement but that's just not the case. The Khomeini family supports the reformist movement and this I think is plain enough proof. In all the protests I have witnessed there are a lot of ladies in full hijab and pratically none wants the end of the system.But yes they want reforms and a return to the constitution. The issue is the elections not the system in and of itself. That's all you need to know.

[tonyhp32]

Just as I thought. There's no good guys in any of this. They want reforms you say, is that more hangings or less?

[amardeep]

what kind of reforms do they want if they dont want the present system to be abolished? what reforms are we talking about here?

[Ishraqi]

To Tonyhp32: the people who get hanged are guilty of crimes and have been tried. There is a penal system like any other country applying sentences to those found guilty. In the case of hangings it's mostly drug dealers. Then again I am surprised you complain about these things when your own 10th master had 300 masands burnt alive and thrown in a well.

To Amardeep: the system and constitution are fine. By the system I mean the idea of having a wali e faqih over the three powers and making sure the laws passed by the parliament are in agreement with shariah.The issue here is not about the system:it's about the fact that the elections were rigged. It's as simple as that.It's a clash between two ideas of what the revolution was about. The reforms they want is transparency in the dealing between the four powers, the abolition of the militia's right to interfere in people's lives, the fulfillment of the economic promises of the revolution (oil money back to the people).If people were against the system they wouldn't be using Imam Khomeini's portrait and the slogans of the revolution.

[Matheen]

The Western media may present the events as some anti-IRI movement but that's just not the case......... The issue is the elections not the system in and of itself.

That's what I gathered too, listening to friends from there. The Western media seem to have their own agenda, but dont even have any reporters in Iran. They don't understand that Ahmedinejad is disliked by many strict Muslims too, not just the liberal ones.

[Ishraqi]

Matheen wrote:

That's what I gathered too, listening to friends from there. The Western media seem to have their own agenda, but dont even have any reporters in Iran. They don't understand that Ahmedinejad is disliked by many strict Muslims too, not just the liberal ones.

You are absolutely right. There are many dimensions to this crisis.

1. Foreign interference: Russia, Europe and the US. Russia' interference is the strongest with its support for AN. Western interference limits itself at using the protests as some kind of "proof" that people hate the Islamic revolution which is not the case.

2.The old fight between the crocodile and the shark: Yazdi and Rafsanjani. AN follows Yazdi who authorized rigging the votes.

3. The electoral crisis in and of itself and the issue of transparency.

If you think people here are fed up with the idea of an Islamic republic you're mistaken.The mosques are still full of young people at prayer time and they honour their marytrs. All they want is a transparent system and a state of law. No more no less.