shaheediyan Posted August 18, 2009 Report Share Posted August 18, 2009 Tony, p's-thols and bandookan do form part of SV, just a more basic, lower end and easier to learn part. Its no mystery gun and cannon fire were used during the times of the 10th Master - but the real battle was on the field - man to man. You are mixing up to many topics and going around in circles instead of just admitting that maybe, just maybe, you may be wrong, at least on some of the big claims you have made here. SV or Raag Vidya is not something that can be learnt from a book, if you are ever blessed to be able to learn any of these high end arts, you will understand why. Hence, why no one has written about them to date - par Baba Shaam Singh Aden Shahi and Baba Gyaan Singh (?) having written a small snippet on them, very basic, basic points. Of course in modern times we have some books on notations etc, but they are not raag vidya, same way we have many books on Singh Yodhveers, battles, shastar etc, but they do not equate to Shastarvidya. The true high end knowledge of both these arts exist in Guru Maharajs divine Bani itself- in all 3 of its holy forms. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tonyhp32 Posted August 18, 2009 Report Share Posted August 18, 2009 Shaheediyan, What big claims have I made. It is the Shastar Vidya promoters that make tall claims and unsubstantiated statements. Giani Gian Singh's quote doesn't provide support for Shastarvidya myths. I did not say that Giani Gian Singh should have written a manual of SV, just that as a writer and one if the quote is to be taken as per the SV promoters, who was worried about the loss of this Khalsa martial art amongst his generation one would expect a lot more details than the lament that is being quoted. The lament is general, it is about the loss of knowledge of weapons, the softening of the youth, the pace of rapid change, even the fact that Muslims have started to marry their cousin sisters! Hardly a definitive quote which could be used to show how according to the SV myth, the British actively conspired to actively destroy SV. One wonders whether after using Chatka Gatka as the name of his 'lost' Khalsa martial art did the promoter of SV see this quote and suddenly he has an epiphany and changed the name of his 'ancient' art! 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maha Singh Posted August 18, 2009 Report Share Posted August 18, 2009 (edited) The term Chatka Gatka was actually coined by Baba Gyana Singh. If you go through Sri Dasam Darbar you will see how weapons arts are called many things, such as AyudhVidiya, BirVidiya and Shastarvidiya, the name is regardless, what matters is its execution. Tony no one wants you to accept the views of Niddar Singh. I train in Shastarvidiya because I enjoy it, gives me physical excercise, if i found a sword art which was as technical and complex as Shastarvidiya I would learn that too, regardless of if it was a Philopino, Japanese, Western or European art. The fact that it deals with Indo Persian weapons and is taught from a Sikh presepective is just a bonus. I couldnt care less about its history, whether it was really ancient or not, I have spent yrs training in it because I admire the art of swordsmanship Edited August 18, 2009 by Maha Singh 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tonyhp32 Posted August 20, 2009 Report Share Posted August 20, 2009 That's fine. No one is saying that one shouldn't do SV but just that one should be wary of the attendant fairy stories! 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest caveman Posted September 7, 2009 Report Share Posted September 7, 2009 (edited) Ok, so while all the Nihangs in India are completely ignorant of this secretive martial arts only one person (Niddar Singh) in the whole wide world has knowledge of authentic Sikh martial arts? Are you serious? baba santa singh ji 96crore knew some parts of the vidiya, so with baba santa singh knowing some parts it does prove a point that the vidiya isnt faked by niddar singh, it wasnt created by niddar singh BECAUSE baba santa singh ji was taught some moves etc from his baba. ive been reading this topic and if you dont believe it isnt the true vidiya so be it, no one is forcing you to believe it is. everyone has their own opinions. Edited September 8, 2009 by caveman 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matheen Posted September 8, 2009 Report Share Posted September 8, 2009 Caveman, a Singh in Canada recently came back from Raqba and had traced at least 25 people who were training with Niddar's teacher when he started and were still training when he left. Watch this space..... 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Silence Posted September 8, 2009 Report Share Posted September 8, 2009 (edited) MATHEEN YOU ARE A HERO IF YOU TELL US WHO THESE SINGHS ARE. Edited September 8, 2009 by Silence 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maha Singh Posted September 8, 2009 Report Share Posted September 8, 2009 If there are more singhs who know the vidiya, THAT IS GREAT!! Now the next thing to do is get Niddar Singh and these 25 singhs together and compare the Vidiya. If these Singhs have more knowledge about Shastarvidiya then Niddar Singh, then im sure Niddar Singh will accept that and take on their knowledge. If however these Singhs are merely using the name of Baba Mohinder Singh to flog off their vidiya then will you accept that Niddar Singh is right? How did this Singh in Canada (Navjeet Singh) know that what these 25 Singhs know is the real vidiya of Baba Mohinder Singhs lineage, seeming as Navjeet Singh has no training in Shastarviidya? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matheen Posted September 8, 2009 Report Share Posted September 8, 2009 You said you'll be visiting Raqba soon? So you can find out first hand. Maybe also find out if Niddar really did have a gun put to his head, and backed off from several Hadd-thor challanges from Singhs in the Dal. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maha Singh Posted September 8, 2009 Report Share Posted September 8, 2009 Brother Matheen, how is anyone supposed to find Singhs whose names are kept gupt by yourself, and how is anyone supposed to believe this incident of Niddar Singh having a gun to his head without proof? Im sure that if it did happen there is a video somewhere, if there is, lets see it. If Niddar Singh did back out of Hadh Thor Challenges, these videos would have been up ages ago, else its just your word against anyone elses. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Silence Posted September 23, 2009 Report Share Posted September 23, 2009 any update with the names? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shaheediyan Posted September 23, 2009 Report Share Posted September 23, 2009 The final product being distributed is not so dissimilar to an urban legend IMHO. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matheen Posted September 23, 2009 Report Share Posted September 23, 2009 any update with the names? Anyone who goes to Raqba can easily be put in touch. Unfortunately the Singhs who have this info are not members of this or any other forum. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maha Singh Posted September 24, 2009 Report Share Posted September 24, 2009 Are the 25 Singhs who learnt based at Raqba? I will be visiting India again early next year, so will try to trace these guys. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matheen Posted September 24, 2009 Report Share Posted September 24, 2009 (edited) You'll need to ask around for students of Baba Katapa Singh Ji - maybe start at the classes they have at Raqba or ask Jathedar Ji for contacts. Many of them move around, but you should be able to find some. If you know Navjeet Singh, then ask him for details. Edited September 24, 2009 by Matheen 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Silence Posted September 24, 2009 Report Share Posted September 24, 2009 thank you matheen, will defiently love to check this out. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nirankar Bani Posted November 11, 2009 Report Share Posted November 11, 2009 Navjeet singh can state what he wants.. u show me these 25 singhs and ill ask them personally when i go india if they even kno the basics of the vidiya varha, shesh, groor etc. navjeet claims there to be a baba gian singh at raqba teaching. niddar singh has approached this baba gian singh (apparntly a ex student of niddar singhs gurdev) and asked him about the the diff fighting styles and he knew none lol. he knew a few blocks and thats it. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matheen Posted November 11, 2009 Report Share Posted November 11, 2009 niddar singh has approached this baba gian singh.... No. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maha Singh Posted November 12, 2009 Report Share Posted November 12, 2009 (edited) Anyone who goes to Raqba can easily be put in touch. Unfortunately the Singhs who have this info are not members of this or any other forum. You obviously have a link with Navjeet Singh so provide the names so these Singhs can be traced down and asked how much they know of the Vidiya. You seem to have knowledge that Niddar Singh didnt meet Baba Katapa Singh, but amazingly you have no knowledge of not even 1 of the 25 Singhs. If Baba Gian Singh was a student of Niddar Singhs Gurdev, why wouldnt he wish to meet his own teachers student? The great thing about the vidiya is that no one can bullsh*t their way through it, you either stand up and fight or you get knocked out. If these Singhs learnt from Baba Katapa Singh, then they will have the Khat Ang penthreh at least right? If they dont you and your friends are obviously propogating lies. You cannot have it both ways and say that they learnt from the same teacher as Niddar Singh, but their vidiya is different, the terminology is different, the techniques are different. Your statement that Niddar Singh is a rouge who broke away from his Gurdevs maryada and ideology after learning the vidiya holds little water, no vidharthi who learns would disrespect their own Gurdev, not after spending years with them carrying out arduous training and seva. Like I mentioned in a previous post, if other singhs have attained the vidiya, that is a great bakshish from the Guru and every attempt should be made to learn from Baba Gian Singh if he has the vidiya. I will make an effort to track down Baba Gian Singh and video tape his knowledge on the Vidiya. Edited November 12, 2009 by Maha Singh 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chatanga1 Posted November 12, 2009 Report Share Posted November 12, 2009 how is anyone supposed to believe this incident of Niddar Singh having a gun to his head without proof? Im sure that if it did happen there is a video somewhere, if there is, lets see it. i was told about this by someone who was there. they saw the the guy put the gun to his head. dont think that it has to be on video just to be proved. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shaheediyan Posted November 12, 2009 Report Share Posted November 12, 2009 Why talk about random gossip? What does this gun incident have to do with anything? What affect has it had on Nidar Singhs efforts to research and preserve Sikh history through an academic medium, and share Shastar Vidya with any youth who chooses to learn it - for free... 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chatanga1 Posted November 12, 2009 Report Share Posted November 12, 2009 Why talk about random gossip? could be. but i think that the guy who told me had nothing to do with this debate/argument over Nihang Nidar Singh. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest zulu Posted November 13, 2009 Report Share Posted November 13, 2009 i was told about this by someone who was there. they saw the the guy put the gun to his head. dont think that it has to be on video just to be proved. would love to see a guy put a gun to Niddar Singh head. The incident about a apparent gun being put to Niddar Singhs head is a lie. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drawrof Posted November 13, 2009 Report Share Posted November 13, 2009 If someone had a gun put to their head....and nothing has changed from that point onwards it makes me think a couple of things 1) What was the purpose and what did it achieve? 2) If he had the gun to his head, why didn't he just pull the trigger? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Laadli Fauj Posted November 13, 2009 Report Share Posted November 13, 2009 i heard in an interview of niddar himself about the gun incident. he did his bandar chaal and disarmed the guy or something, but the incident is legit. lol u guys just ask him about it i'll try and find the interview 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.