Abuse Of The Nihang Singh Bana

[Laadli Fauj]

so if one is unable for any number of reasons to learn shastarvidiya from nidar singh in the UK, what other ustads, or other martial arts would you recommend? how can one avoid the goha and recognize legit art if one has little background in this sorta thing?

[dalsingh101]

Nothing beats boxing full stop. The hardcore cardio and experience of actually hitting and getting hit cannot be substituted by anything. If you can mix it up with another art that teaches you how to kick, it would add additional weapons to your repetoire. I think learning the simple and straight forward Wing Chun kicks with it is a nice touch.

I think boxing gives one the best experience in facing the fight or flight response inherent in combat and it's focus on upper body strength is a correct one.

I think Sikhs should be encouraging this martial art more than any in the community myself. I think it is one of the most effective, direct and realistic.

Edited December 23, 2009 by dalsingh101

[jvalasingh]

Direct, maybe, realistic noway

On the street the technique of setting up a guard and punching properly is good to know, but its extremely basic.

Simple counter to any boxing is a good kick to the groin.

If a boxer is facing any Singh who has big karas, all you have to do is put your guard up and let the boxer break his knuckles/fingers.

Boxing is extremely unrealistic. It is purely focused solely on one aspect which is punching. Mind you they are extremely good at punching and avoiding punches, which is a great positive. But what happens when you open up other dimensions of fighting? Well you can see the result if you watch UFC. They put pure boxers in there and they got destroyed by people who knew other aspects of fighting, i.e. kicking, grappling, locks etc. The more dimensions you open up the more you need to know.

On the street its totally open, no restrictions, which makes for an extremely dangerous and unpredicable fight. Even UFC is not like fighting on the street, because on the street you can pull hair, strike eyes/groin, throw items etc, all of which expands the dimension and creates for a lot more opportunities to get hurt. This is why when you train you should train with all of these possibilities.

Boxing is good, but that's just one section of fighting, and a very small one.

Maha Singh is better to elaborate why due to his experience in Shastar Vidiya.

[dalsingh101]

The more dimensions you open up the more you need to know.

Absolutely. From what I've seen it is usually the arms that are the main offensive weapons in street altercations. Even if they have weapons in them such as pint glasses or "tools". Most fights are over very quickly. It isn't a matter of learning everything I think, but being good at what you know.

I would say boxing is a very good basis even with the limitations you mention. When I said it was realistic I was probably specifically referring to it in relation to various schools of karate and kung fu I have seen. The beautiful thing about boxing is that it doesn't have the excessive formality attached to other arts but you are right in highlighting the grappling that usually takes place in brawls.

Simple counter to any boxing is a good kick to the groin.

Any half decent boxer should see that coming unless you can kick like Bruce Lee. The bobbing and weaving is also very good and if you break it down, a fight is all about striking hard and avoiding strikes. Any full contact sport is good I imagine.

On top of all of this is one of the most important issue of the mentality/psychology of a fighter. This is something that is very difficult to instill into some people and seems innate in others.

Anyway, this is all getting too macho for me! lol

[shaheediyan]

Boxing is a sport. In the street - against weapons and opportunists, it means nothing, Wingchun is better, but is also limited. There are Wingchun teachers who learn from Nihang Niddar Singh.

All the possibilities (and many more) especially for a Singh (in terms of fighting with dhumalla, daara and karai) can be found at the Baba Darbara Singh Akaara, as can the antidote to the fight or flight bemaari, Nihang Singh will make sure of that, lol.

It seems you haven't been to the akaara Dalsingh, I think you should give it go, loh mushti vidya alone is enough to severley disable boxing and wingchun users.

Re mixing up arts, that is long and experimental journey, as styles clash. Wingchun/Karate/TWD etc students find it very hard to adapt to the softness required within SV and real FMA, I have seen this many times, the footwork also creates many problems for those who use solid/rooted techniques.

SV is all inclusive, no need to learn anything else. I would say the same is true for a few other arts (if you can find them in their correct form) i.e. puratan versions of Silat, FMA, Ninjitsu etc.

[Maha Singh]

I will say that there is no art or form of fighting which is the best, it all depends upon the student and how much he trains and to what level. Modern day sport based arts focus allot on stamina, cardio, strength. Whereas the battlefield arts move away from these, emphasising the need for little strength, stamina is not a key issue aslong as you can control ur praan and expend as little energy as possible to defeat your opponent, they focus more on strategy and awareness of your surroundings to calculate the best possible way out, or the best way to avoid damage. As most battlefield arts are weapons based they focus on not even being touched by the weapon let alone the hand, whereas sports arts promote a bit of "take a hit and get in". Both work, but in the street the "take a hit" approach wont get you far when the weapons come out.

In the streets, sports based arts fall apart because they do not cater for real life situations in the gym, that is why there is a recent boom for "self protection" schools. People hype the effectiveness of MMA, however in the street you arent gonna risk going to the floor to do a kimora or a arm bar, cos someone will just put the boot into your head. They dont take into account the countless posibilities such as circumstatial weapons found in the street, hidden weapons, being ambushed, tripping over curbs, being pushed into traffic, being up against a wall, fighting in crowds, someone pulling out a bat, someone breaking into your house, how to protect your home, how to protect children that are with you etc. Above that, there are no rules, if someone is boxing as soon as you control their hands their techniques reduce considerably and will rely on kicking or wrestling which they aint probably practised. The reason why MMA seems good is because people dont focus on what you cant do, a shoot to the legs is great in the ring where you cant hammer the back of their neck as they come in or put on a spinal twist and wrench their necks. People may call it dirty fighting, we call it survival, no battlefield art worth its salt tells you to avoid using technqiues which can end a fight, esspecially if your smaller and weaker than your opponent.

All arts have their good aspects, I will not try to take that away, but to be a good all round fighter you must have experience in all ranges of fighting, all types of strikes, grappling, ground and standup, weapons and multiples, something which sports arts do not offer. Practise your training with the street in mind where there are no rules, no banned strikes and no mercy. Above that is awareness of your surroundings, knowing how to avoid confrontation before it happens, if you go around looking for fights you will easily find them, and the most key aspect is respect of the law, fighting is one thing but if you end up behind bars for it, was it really worth it? A opponent can be easily defeated without hurting them and ending up behind bars, if you can show you have control of your weapon and your strikes you can avoid the heavy hand of the law which is a neccessity in todays society where knife crime is rampant.

[dalsingh101]

You all made relevant points.

But still, send the boys to boxing if possible. Let them learn how it feels to be punched in the face and punch someone in the face for starters! lol

The way large sections of saday munday are rapidly becoming naram patolay is scary! lol

and the most key aspect is respect of the law, fighting is one thing but if you end up behind bars for it, was it really worth it? A opponent can be easily defeated without hurting them and ending up behind bars,

Maha Singh, as someone who has had more friends who have been to prison than not, sometimes you just haven't got a choice. You sound very naive in your statement above. It seems like you don't fully know what kind of vindictive, vicious evil bastards you can have the misfortune of encountering out there. Avoiding them all of the time isn't an option. Say you get a female relative being harassed by a crew of hardened pervert haramis. Running to the police frequently fails to deter them and more often than not highlights you as a coward, especially amongst young females in the family, who then feel additionally vulnerable growing up.

If you are going to fight them, don't think it ends after a single fight. Depending on who you are dealing with, it can quickly escalate into a much bigger thing, especially if you are dealing with our more tradition 'vairis'.

That is why we must not only think individually but also as clans. That is the best and proven defense and our people have been using this since time immemorial. You need your own businesses to do this properly though, so you can quickly reintegrate family who have been released from prison. Oh yeah, the police aren't always angels you know.

[Maha Singh]

You all made relevant points.

But still, send the boys to boxing if possible. Let them learn how it feels to be punched in the face and punch someone in the face for starters! lol

The way large sections of saday munday are rapidly becoming naram patolay is scary! lol

Maha Singh, as someone who has had more friends who have been to prison than not, sometimes you just haven't got a choice. You sound very naive in your statement above. It seems like you don't fully know what kind of vindictive, vicious evil bastards you can have the misfortune of encountering out there. Avoiding them all of the time isn't an option. Say you get a female relative being harassed by a crew of hardened pervert haramis. Running to the police frequently fails to deter them and more often than not highlights you as a coward, especially amongst young females in the family, who then feel additionally vulnerable growing up.

If you are going to fight them, don't think it ends after a single fight. Depending on who you are dealing with, it can quickly escalate into a much bigger thing, especially if you are dealing with our more tradition 'vairis'.

That is why we must not only think individually but also as clans. That is the best and proven defense and our people have been using this since time immemorial. You need your own businesses to do this properly though, so you can quickly reintegrate family who have been released from prison. Oh yeah, the police aren't always angels you know.

I didnt say go to the police.

[dalsingh101]

What was all the respect the law thing about then?

From what I've seen, many are just itching to bang apnay up.

Edited December 23, 2009 by dalsingh101

[Maha Singh]

What was all the respect the law thing about then?

From what I've seen, many are just itching to bang apnay up.

Meaning that you should always know that your actions are open to prosecution by the law, if you seriously hurt someone in a fight you will be arrested for it. Use your neeti and bibek budhi to understand how much force is required to deal with a confrontation which justifies your actions.

As you become a better fighter, your ability to control your opponent becomes good enough to defeat your opponent without hurting them, this is the ideal and you can always justify that against the law. If you disagree, then feel free to pop into the Akhara and im sure Niddar Singh will oblige to show you.

All martial arts show you how to punch, so taking and giving a punch in the face is not exclusive to boxing.

[dalsingh101]

Meaning that you should always know that your actions are open to prosecution by the law, if you seriously hurt someone in a fight you will be arrested for it. Use your neeti and bibek budhi to understand how much force is required to deal with a confrontation which justifies your actions.

As you become a better fighter, your ability to control your opponent becomes good enough to defeat your opponent without hurting them, this is the ideal and you can always justify that against the law. If you disagree, then feel free to pop into the Akhara and im sure Niddar Singh will oblige to show you.

All martial arts show you how to punch, so taking and giving a punch in the face is not exclusive to boxing.

Hypothetically speaking, when you get embroiled into certain types of crappy situations with certain types of people, a lot of what you might be compelled to do may be against the law. I doubt anything Niddar Singh will be able to teach me will help me if their are a dozen pakis driving around tooled and probably drugged up, looking for serious trouble and not really thinking about any future for themselves. You were spot on the money in your earlier posts when you said being able to fight dirty helps. Tuttay to do what others wouldn't is what makes the difference in the end I think. Fear helps too and a clan or a group with an established and recognised pattern of successful retaliation will usually manage to minimise altercations after some eggs are broken for the proverbial omelette. Thing is apnay like this are decreasing because of 'upward mobility'. In the end, nothing is fool proof and you have to accept a certain level of risk unless you are a bullet proof superman these days. Especially with the way guns are available to even teenagers these days.

You know people learn their own buddhi from growing up in certain areas and whilst it would be lovely to have Niddar types around to help, you have to learn to rely on yourself and those closest at hand in the end. Frequently it isn't the altercations that are the issue, but what follows. Anyway, I think what he does is great, but I hope you haven't put him on a pedestal as our people do too often? Coincidentally, I just brought his book the other day. Bloody expensive I must say! lol Looking forward to reading it after the Maharaja Ranjit Singh one.

If you disagree, then feel free to pop into the Akhara and im sure Niddar Singh will oblige to show you.

Is this some sort of bad man talk from you? Sounds odd?

[shaheediyan]

"I will say that there is no art or form of fighting which is the best, it all depends upon the student and how much he trains and to what level."

Agreed, anyone, from any religion, from anywhere in the world, can receive Gurprasad if they are devoted -but those individuals are rare. For the large majority, its better to find a school which increases your chances.

Ultimately going to SV or any school teaching killing arts isn't going to ensure progress/success, its only ones individual efforts that ultimately count. When one achieves martial awareness, then schools/styles no longer matter (for that person at a personal usage level - but do matter in terms of preserving the tradition), in my opinion. As Nihang Nidar Singh says all the time, you just can't get quality students. Wise people say its hard finding a good teacher, but its even harder finding a good student...

I have know guys to this day, who have never been taught any martial art, but through their share experience of street fights and commonsensical mindset, would go through most martial students I know like a hot knife goes through butter. There share (worrying) love for battle, has taught them how to use their environment, bait, speed, opportunity. They are not polished but have a fighting and strategic mind. The only way to be able to apply yourself on the street, is to think 'situationally'. You can't perform set drills or pentrai on the street. You have to adjust and use what fits/works, even if its not what you have learnt per se - as my teacher says, this mindset is called the 'fruits of combat'. In SV, one eventually mixes up the pentrai in sparring/fighting which deals with the 'robotic' stay true to my style mindset.

This fighting mind can be found amongst the best teachers of real arts - because they do abyaas on reality, and therefore learn to 'do as the Romans do'. In Punjab this commonsensical survival mindset used to be found amongst the common people, ironically, now you have to go to Nihang Akaara in on a small Island of the European mainland to learn it, lol.

Which reminds me, as an example: Bibiyan ued to carry laal mirch (powder) on their person all the time, any danger, whoosh, chuck the mirch in the attackers eyes - and then run or give the blinded attacker a good old fashioned Punjabi hiding, pref with joothian to the head!

[Maha Singh]

Hypothetically speaking, when you get embroiled into certain types of crappy situations with certain types of people, a lot of what you might be compelled to do may be against the law. I doubt anything Niddar Singh will be able to teach me will help me if their are a dozen pakis driving around tooled and probably drugged up, looking for serious trouble and not really thinking about any future for themselves. You were spot on the money in your earlier posts when you said being able to fight dirty helps. Tuttay to do what others wouldn't is what makes the difference in the end I think. Fear helps too and a clan or a group with an established and recognised pattern of successful retaliation will usually manage to minimise altercations after some eggs are broken for the proverbial omelette. Thing is apnay like this are decreasing because of 'upward mobility'. In the end, nothing is fool proof and you have to accept a certain level of risk unless you are a bullet proof superman these days. Especially with the way guns are available to even teenagers these days.

You know people learn their own buddhi from growing up in certain areas and whilst it would be lovely to have Niddar types around to help, you have to learn to rely on yourself and those closest at hand in the end. Frequently it isn't the altercations that are the issue, but what follows. Anyway, I think what he does is great, but I hope you haven't put him on a pedestal as our people do too often? Coincidentally, I just brought his book the other day. Bloody expensive I must say! lol Looking forward to reading it after the Maharaja Ranjit Singh one.

Is this some sort of bad man talk from you? Sounds odd?

I dont do bad man talk, I stated that if you dont believe it then come along to the Akhara to witness it yourself, nothing confrontational,so no need to be paranoid.

Niddar Singh is respected by his students for the vidiya he holds, it is the vidiya that speaks for itself. Why would anyone put him on a pedestal. He doesnt demand respect from anyone, he is just one man teaching something he loves and believes in as part of his maryada and tradition. In the same way, his students do the same satkar for the vidiya that the Gurus themselves promoted. Boxing and everything else is fine but the hukam of the Guru is to learn the use of weapons. If you think the vidiya of the Gurus is not good enough to deal with Muslims with weapons (like the old singhs) then that is your own choice.

[dalsingh101]

I have know guys to this day, who have never been taught any martial art, but through their share experience of street fights and commonsensical mindset, would go through most martial students I know like a hot knife goes through butter.

This is so true. You meet these fat looking yob types sometimes who look like they haven't done any exercise in their life and seem to live in the pub, but when crunch time comes they eat up much more healthier sportier karate black belt types who have been training for years. lol

Environment plays a part. These brothers come from quite a rough part of town and have had unsettled upbringings and it shows. Forgive the atrocious language but stick with it. Shaheediyan, I know you hate this type of stuff but just try and grasp the social phenomena without judgment. These guys are genuinely 'tasty' however comical they come off on screen:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XHKAK2RknWE

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HEbPWbNURxc&NR=1

[dalsingh101]

I dont do bad man talk, I stated that if you dont believe it then come along to the Akhara to witness it yourself, nothing confrontational,so no need to be paranoid.

Niddar Singh is respected by his students for the vidiya he holds, it is the vidiya that speaks for itself. Why would anyone put him on a pedestal. He doesnt demand respect from anyone, he is just one man teaching something he loves and believes in as part of his maryada and tradition. In the same way, his students do the same satkar for the vidiya that the Gurus themselves promoted. Boxing and everything else is fine but the hukam of the Guru is to learn the use of weapons. If you think the vidiya of the Gurus is not good enough to deal with Muslims with weapons (like the old singhs) then that is your own choice.

Fair point. I hope to see loads of tasty Singhs coming out of the Akhara soon. Although I don't agree with all of Niddar's sanatan views I respect any Singh genuinely getting Singhs fighting fit. I like his no nonsense approach. I saw him showing how to use a kara in a video once, it was good stuff.

I wasn't saying boxing is the be all and end all btw. It is probably the best thing around where I live though. I think we might be having to use our martial side soon possibly. lol I hope we can also produce decent leaders to unite and coordinate. That is another area we seem to be lacking in, organisation.

But we will overcome.

[shaheediyan]

Dalsingh, SV teaches you things to do in fight you wouldn't ever be able to imagine, even in your worst nightmares. When you come to attain even a little of this knowledge, it's not yourself you hold fear for, but for those that may try to confront you, this is what Maha Singh is alluding too if I am correct. The vidya was created for the battlefield, where there are no rules. If you are caught in the street with a man who has had his arm snapped in 8 places, his jugular bitten off and spat on the floor, his spine broken, his eyes gauged, his ankles, knees and shins broken, you will be very unlikey to have a picnic with your family in Hyde Park for the rest of your life.

Realistically, one needs to think about the law and future parvarish of your parvaar. The 'deadly' aspects of the vidya should only be reserved for war or what would warrant a life and death situation for that individual, and even then, applied according to your own ability. The nasty aspects of the vidya were specifically used to psychologically weaken the enemy in war - i.e. seeing your best friend mauled by a Lion in front of your eyes is going to have an affect on your courage and ability.

I am not being 'insulting', but giving genuine advice, you need to experience things for yourself, holding discussions on books you haven't read or giving opinions on the effectiveness of yudh vidya you have never seen is unbecoming of anyone.

I would genuinely look forward to hearing your thoughts after you have attended at least a few SV lessons.

[shaheediyan]

N3O, could you kindly move this thread to the Yudh Vidya section.

Dhanvaad.

[Matheen]

Boxing training is awesome for getting into shape, also knowing how to throw a punch correctly is very useful.

Ladli-fauj, if there is no SV in your area, just do something like Muay Thai and BJJ. If in the US/Canada then even school wrestling is great.

[Maha Singh]

The reason why Singhs get slapped up nowadays is because the robh that they had before has died away. The Sirdars who were known for taking heads are no longer around and the mentality of Sikhs nowadays is that of the constant victim. If Singhs had the reputation of no nonsense and people knew of the vidiya they held, the amount of attacks on Singhs would reduce as their potential attackers fear of broken bones and worse. Knowing how to fight is there when you require it, not so that you go out and beat people up for the sake of making a reputation. If I went through my life without getting into a fight I would be content.

When I saw the Ludhiana attacks, I was sad that Singhs who were respected as great warriors are now being beaten in the streets by unfit, fat, idiot policemen who would be slaughtered by a single singh if he knew how to use his sword (not the gatka that one of them started performing)

I think myself, shaheediyan and dalsingh are all hinting at the same thing, however our approach to it is different. Brute strength and having a rough fighting mentality is great, but throw in a bit of fantastic technique and your all round ability to rumble is that more successful.

Edited December 23, 2009 by Maha Singh

[dalsingh101]

I am not being 'insulting', but giving genuine advice, you need to experience things for yourself, holding discussions on books you haven't read or giving opinions on the effectiveness of yudh vidya you have never seen is unbecoming of anyone.

Come on, that's a bit unfair. With the book thing, it was a particular area I was interested in (duality). So I chanced on asking about it. Nothing else. In case you haven't noticed, I strongly believe in sharing information, especially between Singhs right now, as knowledge and interest seems to be at an all time low in the wider panth. I really believe we must share and facilitate interest in all things Sikh as I am seeing droves of people dropping off. I can't see any responsible Sikh shirking this duty. I feel that like Sikhs are always ready to give physical sustenance to the world through langar, we should also never fail to share our spiritual food/nourishment. Me personally, I always try and share anything good/interesting I come across. Stimulating debate is a good thing as frequently leads to further inquiry by those interested. It was a piece I wrote about Panth Prakash on another forum that actually led to me being invited to this forum. The fact that I worked as teacher for a few years probably doesn't help.

http://www.sikhawareness.com//index.php?showtopic=11332&st=0&p=98459&fromsearch=1&#entry98459

I think you've misunderstood my contribution to this thread. i must confess that I jumped in at the question about a good martial art to practice without reading the previous posts. So I can understand why it seems like I was undermining SV, but I wasn't. I was just suggesting what I felt was a good option amongst a number of possibilities.

I would genuinely look forward to hearing your thoughts after you have attended at least a few SV lessons.

Too far for me right now. Besides that whole teaching experience kept me so busy for the last few years that I seriously neglected my usual physical training routine, so I need to address this firstly. I was overwhelmed with lesson preparation and marking for a LONG TIME! Trying to recover now. lol

Definitely want to see Niddar though. We need a good few of him on the streets!

Edited December 23, 2009 by dalsingh101

[Guest zulu]

Which reminds me, as an example: Bibiyan ued to carry laal mirch (powder) on their person all the time, any danger, whoosh, chuck the mirch in the attackers eyes - and then run or give the blinded attacker a good old fashioned Punjabi hiding, pref with joothian to the head!

some guys carry lal mirch with them (hint hint) nothing wrong with chuck in the face followed by a few punchs then a cya later

[Laadli Fauj]

Boxing training is awesome for getting into shape, also knowing how to throw a punch correctly is very useful.

Ladli-fauj, if there is no SV in your area, just do something like Muay Thai and BJJ. If in the US/Canada then even school wrestling is great.

satt aa, i do plan on beginning training at AKA, american kickboxing association. their main gym isnt too far from where i live, and theyve produced some well known fighters, so yah, maharaj kirpa karn and ill start that asap.

check their site out: akakickbox.com/

btw its Laadli Fauj didnt want to be a butt and trip over it, but theres someone else on youtube and sikhsangat n whatnot who is ladli-fauj, so yeah, gotta differentiate

[chatanga1]

would this vidya be something to start teaching to a 6 year old?

or is there an ideal age to start learning?

what is the youngest practitioner of SV in any Dal that any member has seen?

[Maha Singh]

would this vidya be something to start teaching to a 6 year old?

or is there an ideal age to start learning?

what is the youngest practitioner of SV in any Dal that any member has seen?

Normally young children are brought to the Akhara to just "hang around", through this they get used to the environment where people are training, they see techniques going on and youll be suprised at how quickly they absorb them unconciously. They are taught basic training games,and basic unarmed blocking techniques. A little while in they may be taught basic strike blocks and they slowly develop from there on. Normally a child is brought in at the age of 3-4, and by 6 he will be put onto some formal svai rakshah training.

To learn the vidiya is very hard, and most of the time its a matter of karam if someone can pick it up naturally. Else, we just need to put in the practise and train as hard as you can to get good.

[shaheediyan]

Kids (the younger the better) move naturally are comfortable with all types of movement (as they have a learning mindset/ability/body), where as adults need to untrain themselves to move in new ways (this is many times extremely difficult for most people).

My daughter is 2, I have never 'taught' her anything, but she randomly performs 'purposeful' footwork and holds and maneuvers big sticks and daggars with suprising confidence.

As Maha Singh said, kids just need to be 'exposed' to any vidya, be it paath, kirtan or SV, and they will 'automatically' learn. Later on you formalise and fine tune their skills.

Sad thing is, today little kids are more expert in Trashy Bhangra/Hip Hop, Nindiya, Jathaa bashing and commercialist crap than any in any Sikhi related gunn. Having helped out with a Sikh Camp in the last few weeks, it shocks me that 5-10 year old kids speak as if they are living in LA Hoodlums (esp girls)and have absolutely zero knowledge of basic Sikhi - inc those lovely inspiring little Singhs wearing patkai.

If we learn kirtan, paath, SV etc and practice it at home, we will never have to be these parents who take their kids to the Gurdwara for a long Saturday to force them to learn Kirtan/Punjabi/Karate because they have been unable to make the effort to learn it themselves. 90% of these kids are put off all of the above for the rest of their lives, because the standard of teaching at most Gurdwarai etc is so poor i.e. untrained Gyanis teaching kirtan and sparsely educated mums teaching Punjabi.

The 1st initial (even if its basic) exposure to Sikhi in all these forms should come from the parents (or at least from the home - grandparents etc). Thereafter kids education should be taken seriously and their formal training should be continued via professionals (in which ever field). The Boston (US) community is a great example of this in terms of kirtan. Nearly all Gurdwarai kids there learn tanti saaj and raag. The Gurdwara community pays for top Raagis like Dr Gurnaam Singh to come and hold seminars on an annual basis (a number of these occur every year). The Boston community have therefore invested in their kids and future Sikhi for their kids, as the childs absolutely love kirtan and are hugely talented because of that correct nurture.

Gatka akhaaras also work this way, irrelevant of the usefullness of gatka, those who practice, soon see their little kids jumping around and spinning sticks like seasoned professionals...

The parents are heroes to kids for many years (primarily before secondary school), parents should take that time to influence their kids (rather than forcing them to learn elsewhere) as much as is possible.

Personally,I am always impressed by the little kids who sit through a whole Sukhmani Sahib paath or Gurdwara divaan, without batting an eyelid, those kids certainly must have amazing parents (as well as karam) on the large part.

Edited December 27, 2009 by shaheediyan