So Called Khalsa Fauj Was Beaten On Saturday At Troonto

[The Khalsa Fauj]

Khalistan isn't about to come about anytime soon so you don't need to worry about that.

On the other front, will pro Dasam Granth scholars be going to Haryana and debating? Can't we avoid any violence between ourselves over this matter?

We really have to get over the 'heavy' stuff.

A quick question if you will Khalsa Fauj, what do think of Jaap Sahib? I don't see anything within that gives any indication of it not being dasmesh pita's myself.

Do you not think ANY of the DG is from Guru Gobind Singh?

There is no doubt there will be no Khalistan. People in west get brainwashed by parcharaks from east who want to take their money on name of Khalistan.

Go through above link and you will get info about Dasam Granth. Also watch the related videos.

[The Khalsa Fauj]

Ah! the truth finally comes out. Kala Afghanist movement is a creation of the GOI to weaken the Sikhs within, and destroy our aspirations for a politically independent Sikh homeland. First the Kala Afghanists start off by questioning Dasam Bani and then basic Sikh Sidhaants and now even our political aspirations. The Kala Afghanist movement is not alone in this. The Narakdharis, Radhasoamis, Noormahalias, Sacha Sauda are all movements designed by GOI to weaken and confuse the Khalsa Panth.

Yea, label me as GOI, I don't care. That is all you guys could do. Tell me who is worst? GOI or Khalistani goondas attacking Sikhs? Did GOI ever attack Sikhs in another country? Blame the GOI all you want but the kharkoos weren't sants either. What were kharkoos doing in 86 in darbar shaib complex? Why were dead bodies of girls found? They were picking up any girl, raping and killing. However, government officials were no better either. Both sides were wrong. This is the truth. If khakoos were good, they wouldn't have lost support from general public. Especially, after Akaal Takht was attacked abdali style.

[DSG]

who needs enemies when you got sikhs ?

Has anyone here read the complete Sri Dasam Granth ?

[Mithar]

Yea, label me as GOI, I don't care. That is all you guys could do. Tell me who is worst? GOI or Khalistani goondas attacking Sikhs? Did GOI ever attack Sikhs in another country? Blame the GOI all you want but the kharkoos weren't sants either. What were kharkoos doing in 86 in darbar shaib complex? Why were dead bodies of girls found? They were picking up any girl, raping and killing. However, government officials were no better either. Both sides were wrong. This is the truth. If khakoos were good, they wouldn't have lost support from general public. Especially, after Akaal Takht was attacked abdali style.

What a double faced hypocrite you are. On one side you hang the pictures of Sant Jarnail Singh Bhindrawala and Sukha-Jinda Shaheeds and on the other side you call Khalistanis-Kharkoos as Goondas. A politically independent Khalsa Raaj will happen whether you or your GOI masters like it or not.

[The Khalsa Fauj]

What a double faced hypocrite you are. On one side you hang the pictures of Sant Jarnail Singh Bhindrawala and Sukha-Jinda Shaheeds and on the other side you call Khalistanis-Kharkoos as Goondas. A politically independent Khalsa Raaj will happen whether you or your GOI masters like it or not.

If DG will be read, no chance. If not, then yea there is a maybe. No one is more hypocrite than those who say we accept Guru Granth Sahib Ji as complete Guru and then force third party content down throat of Sikhs.

[dalsingh101]

A politically independent Khalsa Raaj will happen whether you or your GOI masters like it or not.

Via clever military and political moves or a miracle?

If the former where are the brains and brawn?

[daas007]

Relevant section of Canada's Hate Crime Law

Section 319(1): Public Incitement of Hatred

The crime of "publicly inciting hatred" has four main elements. To contravene the Code, a person must:

* communicate statements,

* in a public place,

* incite hatred against an identifiable group,

* in such a way that there will likely be a breach of the peace.

Under section 319, "communicating" includes communicating by telephone, broadcasting or other audible or visible means; a "public place" is one to which the public has access by right or invitation, express or implied; and "statements" means words (spoken, written or recorded), gestures, and signs or other visible representations.

All the above elements must be proven for a court to find an accused guilty of either:

* an indictable offence, for which the punishment is imprisonment for a term not exceeding two years; or

* an offence punishable on summary conviction.

Section 319(2) defines the additional offence of communicating statements, other than in private conversation, that wilfully promote hatred against an identifiable group.

Section 319(3) identifies acceptable defences. Indicates that no person shall be convicted of an offence if the statements in question:

* are established to be true

* were relevant to any subject of public interest, the discussion of which was for the public benefit, and if on reasonable grounds it was believed to be true

* were expressed in good faith, it was attempted to establish by argument and opinion on a religious subject

* were expressed in good faith, it was intended to point out, for the purpose of removal, matters tending to produce feelings of hatred toward an identifiable group in Canada

[HSD1]

I'll bring the brains if someone else brings the brawn. Hell, I'll bring that too if no one has any.

Miracles cost extra.

Edited January 20, 2010 by HSD

[singh2]

People need to realize the cause that resulted in this scuffle.If fauji does not believe in Dasam granth he should keep it a private affair.Name calling and ridiculing Dasam granth by him had resulted in this incident.He should learn a lesson from this.

I hope he understands that civilzed people do not criticize belief system of others.If he does not behave i am sure the subject material should be referred to appropriate authorites. Laws are applicable to everyone. His utterances seem to fall in hate crime category.

Edited January 20, 2010 by singh2

[dalsingh101]

Benti

Let's all take a deep breath and slow things down. For the Canadian sangat please, please, please don't take the public legal route and refrain from scuffles.

Don't give Kim Bolan and her ilk another field day. Our faith is something that is supposed to be at our core, nothing anyone says should shake it.

We can't stop people having different opinions to us, I'm just suggesting finding a less contentious way to resolve things that doesn't drag our name in the mud. You should know that sections of western media live to do this. Don't play in their hands.

Any vichaar shouldn't be done insulting another's belief. We have enough issues to face as it is, lets not make more and more. No need to feed this thing: http://communities.canada.com/vancouversun/blogs/thesearch/archive/2009/05/20/sikh-religion-viewed-unfavorably-in-b-c.aspx

No offence to anyone.

Edited January 20, 2010 by dalsingh101

[The Khalsa Fauj]

People need to realize the cause that resulted in this scuffle.If fauji does not believe in Dasam granth he should keep it a private affair.Name calling and ridiculing Dasam granth by him had resulted in this incident.He should learn a lesson from this.

I hope he understands that civilzed people do not criticize belief system of others.If he does not behave i am sure the subject material should be referred to appropriate authorites. Laws are applicable to everyone. His utterances seem to fall in hate crime category.

Who started this name calling and hate? You did. I will drag you to court in future too if you keep spreading hate against me and other anti-DGs. I talked nicely to you but you called me naastik, kala afghanist, dusht, anti-Sikh and God knows what. You also made false allegations such as me not believing in Khande Kee Pahul and said I question bhagat bani and that I attack Guru Granth Sahib Ji. Court will decide who started hate attack on whom. News reports on panthic.org aren't hidden from anyone. They should also be taken to court for hate crimes. DG being writing of poet shyam, raam and kaal is already known. Courts won't accept your excuse of pen names because court will also look at how Guru Granth Sahib Ji is written and why first nine Nanaks used Nanak. So you want to take matter to court, sure do so. We will also discuss chariter 21-23 in court and decide if it is related to 10th Nanak or not. There are other stories that also need to be discussed. We will also request judge to assign a rating to CP. It will either bet 14+ or 17+. It is up to judge on which one it is going to be. We will provide logic and Gurbani while you can bring your excuse of mantree bhoop sambaad. Judge will also decide if mantree bhoop sambaad means Gurbani from mouth of 10th Nanak or it means just literature by some poets. How about taking whole DG issue to court and judge making decision on it? Dasam Granth attacks Khande Kee Pahul (read BN), attacks 5 pyaras (read Krishan avtar and charitropakhyan), attacks bhagats (read BN, Krishan Avtar and Chariters), attacks Guru Ji (read CP and BN).

We also have the threads you people have made in hatred against Prof. Darshan Singh, Jagtar SIngh Jachak, Gurbachan Singh Thailand and others. Who forces who's views on who isn't unknown. Who has been sending threats to shut down anti-DG Gurduaras isn't unknown. You want to take it to court, I wouldn't mind one bit. You people often give death threats asking for head of Prof. Darshan Singh, Jachak and others so they aren't unknown either. Lets take this to court. You making threats such as come to California and speak against DG and see what happens is nothing more than a threat. I am starting to think you provoked those guys here to attack me otherwise none of them every acted in such manner. I also remember you people asking why Gurpreet Singh wasn't attacked and stopped from singig his poem. I should report you to police next time if someone ever issues a threat to me or even discusses an attack on me. It is my mistake for not giving your name that day to police. However, next time, I will. Prof. Darshan Singh still has to come back from India and take Lamba to US court for defaming him by editing his recordings.

[singh2]

Dal singh ji

This is going on for the last 10 years or so.Singhs have shown extreme restraint when the bani with which they are baptized and form part of their nitnem is being abused in the worst language day in and out.

We are sikhs of tenth master who sacrifced everything so that we can live as pround human beings. When it comes to defend his bani certinly sikhs will be jusitfied to use established ways of system.

[The Khalsa Fauj]

Dal singh ji

This is going on for the last 10 years or so.Singhs have shown extreme restraint when the bani with which they are baptized and form part of their nitnem is being abused in the worst language day in and out.

We are sikhs of tenth master who sacrifced everything so that we can live as pround human beings. When it comes to defend his bani certinly sikhs will be jusitfied to use established ways of system.

As said before, you believe it is Guru Gobind Singh Ji's writing, we accept it as writings of Poet Shyam, Poet Raam and poet Kaal. You call it dasam granth while we call it bachitter natak granth. This was its original name.

Dalsingh Ji!

Christians got rated 2.24 times better because they are smart and know how to behave unlike people like Iqbal Singh patna who sent people to attack prof. Darshan or some others who sent some thugs to beat me. Do we ever go to pro DG Gurduaras and tell them not to read Mahakal rakhvaar hmaaro? I don't think so. Then why do pro DG people don't even let us preach Guru Granth Sahib Ji? Why do they always issue threats and do violence? By the way, those who attacked me already, some of them already have criminal records and have been charged multiple times.

[dalsingh101]

Inder Singh ji

I understand but also be aware of other people who are waiting in the shadows to pounce on the panth and paint it in the worst light possible for their own insidious agenda. It wouldn't be an exaggeration to say a whole international media conglomerate is up to this stretching from India, Canada and the UK.

Dasam Bani resonates with those who are destined. Nothing can take that away from them. People don't seem to grasp it's worldly focus and instead think it should be a mirror of Guru Granth Sahib Ji.

My suggestion is to let those in panth who want to face external realities (i.e. dharam yudh, politics, psychology etc.) learn from DG and let those who want to solely focus on individual spirituality stay away if that is their wish.

What we need to do is stop people insulting each other because of their choices. If people want DG then antis should leave them to it. If your concerned about it being put parallel to SGGS ji, you should have those fears allayed by the clear Akal Takhat hukum nama on teh subject. Conversely if people want just to focus on SGGS ji then proDG should let them get on with it. When we start pointing fingers at each other then it becomes internally consumed energy, and I think we REALLY need to focus this outward.

I know I'll probably have no or little influence on what happens in the end but surely it is worth considering this?

We need to be acting on the DG in terms of raising our own and the panths understanding of polity, jung etc. in the modern world. We are going to get shafted as a minority community if we don't get a bit more chalaak like those in power in the duniya are.

That's all I want to say. Anything else will be badhoo.

No offence to anyone.

Edited January 21, 2010 by dalsingh101

[Mithar]

Inder Singh ji

I understand but also be aware of other people who are waiting in the shadows to pounce on the panth and paint it in the worst light possible for their own insidious agenda. It wouldn't be an exaggeration to say a whole international media conglomerate is up to this stretching from India, Canada and the UK.

Dasam Bani resonates with those who are destined. Nothing can take that away from them. People don't seem to grasp it's worldly focus and instead think it should be a mirror of Guru Granth Sahib Ji.

My suggestion is to let those in panth who want to face external realities (i.e. dharam yudh, politics, psychology etc.) learn from DG and let those who want to solely focus on individual spirituality stay away if that is their wish.

What we need to do is stop people insulting each other because of their choices. If people want DG then antis should leave them to it. If your concerned about it being put parallel to SGGS ji, you should have those fears allayed by the clear Akal Takhat hukum nama on teh subject. Conversely if people want just to focus on SGGS ji then proDG should let them get on with it. When we start pointing fingers at each other then it becomes internally consumed energy, and I think we REALLY need to focus this outward.

I know I'll probably have no or little influence on what happens in the end but surely it is worth considering this?

We need to be acting on the DG in terms of raising our own and the panths understanding of polity, jung etc. in the modern world. We are going to get shafted as a minority community if we don't get a bit more chalaak like those in power in the duniya are.

That's all I want to say. Anything else will be badhoo.

No offence to anyone.

Dal Singh is right. If something like Sikhs fighting gets into the courts, only two parties will benefit from this. The anti Sikh media reporters such as Kim Bolan and the Kala Afghanists who will start to pretend they are martyrs for some righteous cause and the Sikhs who are standing up for Khalsa ideals and Gurbani will appear to be the villains. It has happened to the Sikhs in the past and I can see it happening again. I feel that the Sikhs need to defeat these Kala Afghanists using intellectual discussion, through parchar, through the media just as the Khalsa Panth finished the Bhasourias. The Akal Takht supports our cause and we need to keep full faith in Dasam Pitaa and know that he wil help his Panth in defeating these Kala Afghanists.

[The Khalsa Fauj]

Mithar I agree with you on the discussion part, who is anti-10th Paatshah is to be seen during discussion.

Here is something I want to ask you all DG lovers:

You guys say stories in dasam granth are fake meaning stories about Aurangzeb and Akbar and Noor Jahan and Jahagir and other members of their family are also fake?

If they are fake, why would Guru Ji write fake stories about someone and their family members? Is this Gurmat? Would it be correct to write fake stories about a bibi of someone's family? Everyone is ankhee, ladaee hoa jaandee, people don't even like true stories about people's sister or mother being spread. By the way, our dharam says:

Par Istree Dhee Bhen Bakhanai

Based on this: Why would Guru Gobind SIngh Ji write stories to defame women from families of Aurangzeb and others?

What if Aurangzeb's supporters and Muslims say the reason for war against Sikhs was for honor of their women?

Please answer logically. Thank in advance. Don't give me mantree bhoop excuse. You can hate me and other anti-DGs all you want but one day you people will be forced to speak against DG by non-Sikhs when they lay question after question based on DG. You people should travel in the world and get out of your so called groups and look at mentality of non-Sikhs. As said by Dalsingh, non-Sikhs are always looking for excuses to defame Sikh faith. Rest is up to you people.

[The Khalsa Fauj]

Dal Singh is right. If something like Sikhs fighting gets into the courts, only two parties will benefit from this. The anti Sikh media reporters such as Kim Bolan and the Kala Afghanists who will start to pretend they are martyrs for some righteous cause and the Sikhs who are standing up for Khalsa ideals and Gurbani will appear to be the villains. It has happened to the Sikhs in the past and I can see it happening again. I feel that the Sikhs need to defeat these Kala Afghanists using intellectual discussion, through parchar, through the media just as the Khalsa Panth finished the Bhasourias. The Akal Takht supports our cause and we need to keep full faith in Dasam Pitaa and know that he wil help his Panth in defeating these Kala Afghanists.

There is no such thing as kala afghanists. It is called Guru Granth Purists. This is the best terminology given by your own Vijaydeep Singh. I thank Vijaydeep Singh for giving us good terminology. Please call us Guru Granth Sahib Purists from now on. We call you guys dasam granthis so call us Guru Granth chelas or Guru Granth Purists. Thanks a lot in advance.

[shaheediyan]

The charitra are mixed, taken from various sources folk/mythological and historical sources, some having been rewritten using familiar places, names etc to make them more relevant...

The objective is to give guidance and warning to the Singh Khalsa of the dubious ways of man and woman in the real world so that the preserve their honour at all times.

KF - you are in no position to cry about being insulted, when no one has been more abusive than you with regards to insulting our 10th Master. Its irrelavant that you don't believe its Gurus bani, the fact of the matter is, that you clearly know that we, and the largest part of the panth in all its sampryada and jathai, does. So you have and do, clearly and intentionally, insult the whole Panth in sombre mind.

Stop playing the victim.

We should not make false martyrs of these manmati/hankaari people, that is exactly what they want.

They should be defeated intellectually, and more so, the Panth should put its minor differences aside and unite behind Aad Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji and Sri Dasam Granth Sahib Ji.

That will be enough to make these rats run back into their holes.

[singh2]

If heretics of kala afghana school of thought spew venom against sikh scriptures, sikhs will not sit and look aside.They have countered them in the right way.Panthic weekly is just one of the rogans that bared their designs.

kala afghana was excommunicated.Spokesman editor was excommuncicated.Darshan singh is following them.Sikh authority on religious afairs that is akal takhat has spoken loud and clear. If followers of this cult understand they should follow them and form a separate sect. Case settled.

[Guest]

Maybe you don't know but:

http://thekhalsafauj.blogspot.com/2010/01/challenge-of-dgs-accepted.html

The type of debate people came to have with me is the type of debate that these people probably want to hold in India. Debate challenge was accepted so now it is up to pro DG group to take the next step of declaring their scholars and accepting the location.

singh2 veer, debate challenge was accepted from their side, you got any update if debate is happening in india?

[The Khalsa Fauj]

singh2 veer, debate challenge was accepted from their side, you got any update if debate is happening in india?

I talked to some Singhs in India yesterday about this whole thing. They said most of the sangat is behind Raagi Darshan Singh. I also asked about the debate. They said these guys issue challenge and then back out. Is this another case of giving debate challenge and backing out? This has to be seen. Previously, Iqbal Singh of Patna gave debate challenge and then backed out. We will see if this is another showcase for media or if they will truly hold a debate. It is one thing to give debate challenge and another to live up. Hopefully, they didn't mean attack on Raagi Darshan Singh when they said debate.

[singh2]

singh2 veer, debate challenge was accepted from their side, you got any update if debate is happening in india?

N30 singh ji

It was never accepted. Please do not believe in what they print in Spokesman their mouthpiece. Most of the news are lies.

They have not accepted to debate the issue. I am in touch with gursikhs on regular basis.There are many factors that will never allow them to come for debate.The main factors is their

lack of confidence as they are standing on a mountain of sand, lack of comprehension of message of dasam granth sahib,no knowledge of languages used in dasam Granth sahib etc.

Charhdi kala TV, patiala also tried for debate between them. From gursikhs side Dr Jodh singh, Dr Harpal singh Pannu, Dr harbhajan singh, Dr Jagdish singh Naad and others were ever willing.The invitees from otherside were gurtej singh, Prithipal singh kapoor, Dr Balkar singh etc. they never agreed and they cancelled the programmes many times.

The open challenge still stands. If they are willing, they should come forward.It is known that they will not as their aim is propaganda.

Finally singhs will do an open seminar in heart of Delhi on dasam granth sahib in the next couple of weeks.That will send a clear message to this group.

Edited January 21, 2010 by singh2

[singh2]

I talked to some Singhs in India yesterday about this whole thing. They said most of the sangat is behind Raagi Darshan Singh. I also asked about the debate. They said these guys issue challenge and then back out. Is this another case of giving debate challenge and backing out? This has to be seen. Previously, Iqbal Singh of Patna gave debate challenge and then backed out. We will see if this is another showcase for media or if they will truly hold a debate. It is one thing to give debate challenge and another to live up. Hopefully, they didn't mean attack on Raagi Darshan Singh when they said debate.

Have you taken a license for lying. You lied about what happened at lehar center at toronto.Now we have gathered the truth.

Now you are lying about this debate challenge.They do not accept the challenge.Let us know whom did you talk.Give us their contacts. Let us know who accepted the challenge and when they want to arrange a debate.Please post the detail here.

[The Khalsa Fauj]

Inder Singh, no need to get personal with false allegations. Challenge is accepted. Link has been given to you. Spokesman is the most read paper. Don't discard news in it. Challenge of your side has been accepted. Don't make things up. I told you what happened in Toronto. You want to believe someone other than the first witness, your choice. I got nothing to do with you. I don't plan to spend much time online these days. I got more important things to do.

[singh2]

Inder Singh, no need to get personal with false allegations. Challenge is accepted. Link has been given to you. Spokesman is the most read paper. Don't discard news in it. Challenge of your side has been accepted. Don't make things up. I told you what happened in Toronto. You want to believe someone other than the first witness, your choice. I got nothing to do with you. I don't plan to spend much time online these days. I got more important things to do.

Who has accepted the challenge? Where is the link? I am not able to find any link?