How To Use Your Kirpan

[Kaljug]

Wahguru Ji Ka Khalsa, Waheguru Ji Ki Fateh!

Silat style. Invest in a couple of rubber training knives and some goggles and practice with a partner. When you have a decent level of skill, wear white tshirts and test out your skills by switching your rubber knives for red markers. See how many times you get marked (cut). Do this periodically to check that your defence and the speed of your reactions is increasing (and the number of cuts decreasing).

K.

[shaheediyan]

Having trained (continuing to do so) in knife fighting, I would suggest you don't use rubber or wood knives/batons, but invest in steel or better still aluminium (as its lighter) training knives. One just does not react with seriousness unless he feels and sees and cold metal. it makes a world of a difference. I even think the red marker thing is a not effective, as one needs to deal with a blade in certain ways depending on whether its a single or double edge. size, protruding handle (manipulation opporuity) etc etc. If people are training seriously, they can increase their speed with metal knives, be honest about when contact is made - through regular training one becomes more aware and is able to identify hidden/subtle cuts. The aim is to work up to using shrp knives, but I would recommend going for thinner edged training blades as you get better and progress up. Silat is good for knife training (better for footwork/manipulation/take downs), but no one beats the specialists for knife fighting - the Filipinos - its engrained in their culture and is still very much a real part of survival in their society. The best person to learn from is him, who has survived numerous death matches (duels to the death). His technique/system has been proven. Although now uncommon, over the last century, death matches were a normal part of these peoples culture - where Masters of different regions and systems would challenge each other to fight to the death. Many Filipinos worked on merchant ships and found themselves in matches against people from all over SE Asia depending on where they were stationed.

Problem is that there are a lot of 'sports' practitioners out there, so one needs to search hard to find the real deal.

Before practicing techniques, one needs to learn principles and core drills (or develop principle based drills). Learning techniques is a mugs game, when one understands the principles, they are able to develop their own techniques, these will be more reactionery i.e. dependant on the situation. This is the objective, rather than having a reportoire of techniques and then deciding which one to use when someone tries to make a hole in your kidney or face.

Principles also cover feigning, where as relying on a set scenario will get you killed.

If anyone wants Alu training knives, send me a PM, I keep them in stock.

Edited March 2, 2010 by shaheediyan

[SAadmin]

I know this will sound funny to some, but can one defend oneself with neck wali kirpan??.

Well i think if neck wali kirpan is not worn as necklace but put in pocket it can be as lethal as 5inch + kirpan one because of sharp edges, one can easily hide it behind the fist knuckles and pow.

any thoughts on this?

[Kaljug]

I know this will sound funny to some, but can one defend oneself with neck wali kirpan??.

Well i think if neck wali kirpan is not worn as necklace but put in pocket it can be as lethal as 5inch + kirpan one because of sharp edges, one can easily hide it behind the fist knuckles and pow.

any thoughts on this?

There are better options. For example, one of these Cold Steel sharkies that can be used like a kubotan or one of these Comtech Stingers as a fist load.

If you sharpen the neck kirpan, you would have to keep it in a sheath which means you would need time to pull it out of your pocket and then the sheath before you could use it. The handle of most of those neck kirpans I have seen is really too small to use it safely if it's sharpened, and it's generally a bad idea to put anything really sharp between your knuckles because it will get pushed back into your hand and cut your fingers to shreds when you punch someone.

I've seen people who want something sharp, disposaable and lowtech in their pockets sharpen the edge of a coke can ringpull. The idea is to wear it as a ring when it is in use so that it slashes skin when you punch. By itself it's not a fight ender (unless you sever someone's carotid) but it causes enough mess that it will put most assailants off - and more importantly it causes them to hesitate long enough for you to put them down.

K.

Edited March 3, 2010 by Kaljug

[SURYADEV]

Neck Kirpan is a weapon in its own right, though it is not used as a kirpan. more a claw-like implement in the fist. Only the tip of the weapon is sharpened.

[shaheediyan]

Not sure about nexk kirpan, but Dhumalla Shastar (small kirpan/nakka) can certainly be used as a lethal shastar, but one has to learn the vidya behind it. It is used in a near identical way to 'specialist' Phillipino weapons (small), but not the way the 'Disney Eskrima Masters' show you, i.e. sticking your finger in the hole, and learning numerous fancy spinning tricks with it.

You can keep sharp dhummal kirpan in your dhummala no problems in the UK, ensure inside edge is sharp. The When holding your fore finger should rest on the outside edge (blunt) of the Shastar so in effect you are using the inside of your finger as the discreet weapon. Its more for controlling and very close Qtr combat - cutting the 'danger veins'.

But please note, this is a very advanced level of combat. Generally larger weapons are the basic level and the smaller the weapon, the more advanced the technique, open handed being the most advanced/dangerous.

Which is why most martial arts today are very ineffective, they teach you to fight with your hands 1st, where as in war, a sword would have been put in your hand, if you had the luxury of time, you would have been shown some smaller weapon and open hand techniques, which generally would have been based on the sword movements.

Edited March 3, 2010 by shaheediyan

[Maha Singh]

Regardless of weapons, sprays, batons, claws, guns, fight ending techniques, they are all useless unless you can actually execute them when you need it. Pulling out a pepper spray when you havent trained in its use could bring you more harm then good, using a small nakha is hard when you dont know how to hide it from your opponent and place it at the exact right time and exact right place to ensure your opponent cannot retreat or overpower you. Telling someone to rely on a kick in the groin is fine, but doing it is a completely different game against an opponent who isnt going to stand there to take it.

Peoples main focus should be on hard dedicated training which will open their minds to the variables, physcology and strategies of real combat. The likelyhood of a stand off in the street in a knife fight is low, the likely hood of being stabbed in the back when your not looking, or someone putting a knife around ur neck while ur distracted by another person is more possible. To overcome these issues awareness is the key, understanding ur surroundings and what is dangerous and what isnt, which people are possible threats, what areas are troublesome and which are easy escape routes will help you more in modern day life than putting lipstick on a peice of plastic and going at it with a friend. Learning how to difuse potential confrontation is more useful then letting a fight kick off and then trying to survive.

A good knife fighter wont need colour on a white t shirt to tell them they been cut, they should be able to realise that, in a knife fight it is unlikely you will walk away without being cut in some way or another, what is important is to avoid damage to vital areas. Above that, stay away from places where threats are high, if your going into clubs or dodgy places the chances of a fight kicking off are much more, its easy to look for trouble if you want it.

[shaheediyan]

Lol, I didn't even see the video until now.

Maul Mornie is someone I have a lot of respect for. Although this isn't one his best videos (probably because its a Police training one or something so he isn't showing proper footwork and body movement), he is commonly known as the 'Puppet Master' due to his mastery of the human body - he can make people do what ever he desires!

Ease of manipulation is something only real Masters posses - these are the people one needs to learn from. I only know of a few who posses it to this standard, others being individuals from Hapkido, FMA and Wingchun/Qigong backgrounds.

I would whole heartedly recommend anyone to learn from Maul Mornie - he is very respectful and you can't beat his passion for the fighting arts - he breathes fight.

The only problem is that his schedule is ridiculously busy, and he probably won't respond to your request for one to one tution for months, as he teaches all over the world. He is based in Cardif for Spring in most years.

He also does seminars in the UK, if anyone is interested in attending one, drop me a PM, as I may be going to one.

The best thing about this guy is that he hasn't inherited some mixed/influenced style of combat - he is the 1st generation to bring out his unique inherited Silat style to the world - he was taught in classic old school one to one format - which is how he prefers to teach.

[Laadli Fauj]

I keep hearing time and again to do proper training, find a legit ustaad, etc, and i understand the importance of it...so, how the hell do i actually find that. mind, going to niddar singhs akhara is not an option for me

[shaheediyan]

Do a real benti/ardaas. Then keep your eyes and ears open.

Edited March 3, 2010 by shaheediyan

[dalsingh101]

The video moves were impressive. I've only known one guy who can knock out moves like that in a fracas. He was all over the national papers for a week when he did and did about a year for it. Which we all thought was miraculous as at leat half a dozen young armed thugs were hospitalised from the clash, a good few in ICU.

Maha Singh:

Above that, stay away from places where threats are high, if your going into clubs or dodgy places the chances of a fight kicking off are much more, its easy to look for trouble if you want it.

I hear what you're saying brother, but what better 'tajorba' can you get than this. Half of our problem in the quom is that people have been avoiding what you call 'dodgy places' for too long, so when they do see 'akkharh' they pishaab their pents.

Obviously we don't want to overdo it, but a little exposure to the real world may not be a bad thing. Our own Gurus used to send Sikhs to notorious places to do business etc. and when our ancestor's did a stint of mercenary activity, it wasn't exactly avoiding trouble was it...it was jumping into the thick of it. Sadly too many weren't really mentaly aware of the implications of this in a wider political sense. But that in itself is just something we have to learn about and make concurrent in the modern panth's worldview.

[Laadli Fauj]

Do a real benti/ardaas. Then keep your eyes and ears open.

satt aa

[Guest zulu]

I keep hearing time and again to do proper training, find a legit ustaad, etc, and i understand the importance of it...so, how the hell do i actually find that. mind, going to niddar singhs akhara is not an option for me

why isnt it an option?

[Laadli Fauj]

that's irrelevant to answering my question, but UK's a bit far lol. also don't have ageya from maharaj to learn from him. let's not get into the details of that though, and stick to the topic at hand.

[Guest zulu]

that's irrelevant to answering my question, but UK's a bit far lol. also don't have ageya from maharaj to learn from him. let's not get into the details of that though, and stick to the topic at hand.

Oh lol forgot my bad.

[Maha Singh]

Maha Singh:

I hear what you're saying brother, but what better 'tajorba' can you get than this. Half of our problem in the quom is that people have been avoiding what you call 'dodgy places' for too long, so when they do see 'akkharh' they pishaab their pents.

Obviously we don't want to overdo it, but a little exposure to the real world may not be a bad thing. Our own Gurus used to send Sikhs to notorious places to do business etc. and when our ancestor's did a stint of mercenary activity, it wasn't exactly avoiding trouble was it...it was jumping into the thick of it. Sadly too many weren't really mentaly aware of the implications of this in a wider political sense. But that in itself is just something we have to learn about and make concurrent in the modern panth's worldview.

Like everything there has to be a balance, everyone should put in the effort to learn some kind of combat discipline to the highest level they can achieve, im not talking about half arsed training for a few weeks, im talking about pure dedicated training in and out of the classes to ensure you can deal with confrontation in order to protect yourself on the street. This will prepare you for any trouble on the street. Alongside that, you should aim to avoid trouble as much as you can, understanding where trouble is and how to avoid it, how to deal with troublesome people, knowing when to walk away from confrontation, understanding your own abilities to deal with your potential opponent(s) etc. These two combined should keep you more safe then arming yourself with illegal tools in case of a panga kicking off.

Real knife fighting, swordsmanship, or even hand to hand combat cannot be learnt over the net or on youtube, find a good teacher, regardless of style and make a start.

Laadli Fauj, there are good schools out there which teach good combat skills, go out and find them. Do some searches on the net for your area and then look for reviews.

[shaheediyan]

Exactly right.