amardeep Posted February 28, 2011 Report Share Posted February 28, 2011 I just ordered my copy. I'll give you a review when im done 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
amardeep Posted March 23, 2011 Report Share Posted March 23, 2011 got it today! 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
amardeep Posted March 23, 2011 Report Share Posted March 23, 2011 what a lousy book.. dont waste your money on it 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HSD1 Posted March 23, 2011 Report Share Posted March 23, 2011 lol, it took one month to arrive but less than 24 hours to review it! 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dalsingh101 Posted March 23, 2011 Report Share Posted March 23, 2011 (edited) what a lousy book.. dont waste your money on it Don't say that, I ordered from the library especially. Can you not elaborate on your obvious disappointment in a bit more detail? Edited March 23, 2011 by dalsingh101 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mithar Posted March 24, 2011 Report Share Posted March 24, 2011 what a lousy book.. dont waste your money on it Please explain. Is it Mcleodian type of crap that many western academics write? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
amardeep Posted March 24, 2011 Report Share Posted March 24, 2011 (edited) No not at all. She has 3 chapters 1 - the history of the debates around the Dasam Granth (an overview) 2 - a chapter on the 3 chandi compositions (comparative and narrating) 3 - a chapter on the charitro pakhyan (an overview) Its all written in a narrative form spending page upon page just summarising what happens in the different chandi compositions and resumes of various charitars. There is hardly any analysis. The only interesting part is the last 25 pages (conclusion) where she begins to compare the Dasam Granth to other court materials from india... The rest of the book is just an overview, narration or abstract.. that was 50 £ wasted Edited March 24, 2011 by amardeep 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mithar Posted March 24, 2011 Report Share Posted March 24, 2011 No not at all. She has 3 chapters 1 - the history of the debates around the Dasam Granth (an overview) 2 - a chapter on the 3 chandi compositions (comparative and narrating) 3 - a chapter on the charitro pakhyan (an overview) Its all written in a narrative form spending page upon page just summarising what happens in the different chandi compositions and resumes of various charitars. There is hardly any analysis. The only interesting part is the last 25 pages (conclusion) where she begins to compare the Dasam Granth to other court materials from india... The rest of the book is just an overview, narration or abstract.. that was 50 £ wasted Most of the books is just an overview? so you just paid 50 £ for 25 pages. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
amardeep Posted March 24, 2011 Report Share Posted March 24, 2011 Preety much yeah 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dalsingh101 Posted March 24, 2011 Report Share Posted March 24, 2011 (edited) 1 - the history of the debates around the Dasam Granth (an overview) - zzzzz - hang on, did she get Rattan Jaggi's current opinion on the granth? 2 - a chapter on the 3 chandi compositions (comparative and narrating) - This bit sounds potentially interesting and valuable. So how do they differ? Was no attempt made to compare with the original versions in Markandeya Puranas? 3 - a chapter on the charitro pakhyan (an overview) - Bindra's translation could've been used. I wonder what this women's linguistic credentials are? The only interesting part is the last 25 pages (conclusion) where she begins to compare the Dasam Granth to other court materials from india... The rest of the book is just an overview, narration or abstract.. that was 50 £ wasted I paid £1.50 to see if the library would order it. Don't worry Amardeep, I was devastated when I brought Fenech's book on Martyrdom but got over it. So will you. There is hardly any analysis. Is this what goray are passing off as a thesis these days?? hmmm I bet you if I had written that, no publisher would have touched it with a barge pole, let alone the Oxford Press. Edited March 24, 2011 by dalsingh101 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
amardeep Posted March 24, 2011 Report Share Posted March 24, 2011 (edited) Yeah i was really disappointed. This bit sounds potentially interesting and valuable. So how do they differ? Was no attempt made to compare with the original versions in Markandeya Puranas? She does. I think the chapter on the devi is 50 pages long and the first 40 are just narrating what happens in the composition. "then the demons unite and attacks the gods who then,.... then lots of roars are heard which attracks new demons to come on on the field":... goes on like that.. under way she does compare with the original markandaya a bit (not much though) and her conclusion here is that the author has left out a lot of praises on the Devi from the original markandya purana and added a lot more details in the warscenes.... The last 10 pages in this chapter are her conclusion...She concludes that the fightings are the primary objective in the three and not the devi as such, and that there are some linguistic differences in the three, however this does not mean that the author can't be the same for all three since each of them seems to be written for a different purpose (the first is for sight whereby lots of metaphors are used, the second is for recitation and therefore a lot of metres and sounds are used and the third is more down to earth incorparing contemporary events into the battle (guns are used, muslims also occour in the battle etc).. Edited March 24, 2011 by amardeep 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dalsingh101 Posted March 24, 2011 Report Share Posted March 24, 2011 (edited) her conclusion here is that the author has left out a lot of praises on the Devi from the original markandya purana and added a lot more details in the warscenes.... The last 10 pages in this chapter are her conclusion...She concludes that the fightings are the primary objective in the three and not the devi as such, Which conforms to what Sikhs say about the piece in that it is designed to invoke war sentiments and not eulogise the devi. and that there are some linguistic differences in the three, however this does not mean that the author can't be the same for all three since each of them seems to be written for a different purpose (the first is for sight whereby lots of metaphors are used, the second is for recitation and therefore a lot of metres and sounds are used and the third is more down to earth incorparing contemporary events into the battle (guns are used, muslims also occour in the battle etc).. If the third one being spoken of is Chandi Di Vaar it is signficant because it is one of the few compositions of the DG in Panjabi, so it was presumably written specifically for a Panjabi audience. Note that it is adapted with modernist elements that related directly to the battles the readers where expected to face. Edited March 24, 2011 by dalsingh101 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
amardeep Posted March 24, 2011 Report Share Posted March 24, 2011 Read Louis Fenechs book on the darbar of the Gurus... One of the few master pieces on Guru Gobind Singh in english! 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dalsingh101 Posted March 24, 2011 Report Share Posted March 24, 2011 Read Louis Fenechs book on the darbar of the Gurus... One of the few master pieces on Guru Gobind Singh in english! I still haven't recovered from the Martyrdom book yet. It will take time. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
amardeep Posted March 24, 2011 Report Share Posted March 24, 2011 Yep exactly... Her conclusions are good though, but just quite sad that 80% of the book is a summary and narration 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
amardeep Posted March 24, 2011 Report Share Posted March 24, 2011 Haha he wrote that 20 years ago when he was still new to Sikhism 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dalsingh101 Posted March 24, 2011 Report Share Posted March 24, 2011 Haha he wrote that 20 years ago when he was still new to Sikhism He still defends it. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dalsingh101 Posted March 24, 2011 Report Share Posted March 24, 2011 If she hasn't interviewed Rattan Jaggi, she is rubbish. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
amardeep Posted March 24, 2011 Report Share Posted March 24, 2011 I think she has 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dalsingh101 Posted March 24, 2011 Report Share Posted March 24, 2011 (edited) Okay, don't tell me more. The book actually sounds interesting now. If the library don't buy it for me, at least I've got you to ask about it. Be prepared. Edited March 24, 2011 by dalsingh101 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
amardeep Posted March 24, 2011 Report Share Posted March 24, 2011 She uses his research quite a lot actually. He is refered to througout the book since he has been researching the Dasam Granth since the 60s.. Looks like he changed his views over time and now is a full believer in the dasam granth 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
amardeep Posted March 24, 2011 Report Share Posted March 24, 2011 Well dont waste any money on it though 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shaheediyan Posted March 28, 2011 Report Share Posted March 28, 2011 I don't think it's fair to say her book is rubbish, she clearly sets out her objectives and meets them quite well. I respect that she has genuinely tried to digest the depth of the massive area of research that is Sri Dasam Granth, and has chosen to tackle specific areas rather than pretend to be an expert on everything and give a '100%' right opinion. I think her perspective and approach is very honest, refreshing and highly intelligent. she covers all debate and research to date quite well (both sides) and tries to remain unbiased. May be you should try reading it again Amerdeep, but this time, without prior expectations. In my view, this kind of reseach is excellent and more than welcomed. Some of the Pro-Dasam Granth literature can be as bad as the anti literature, purely because the academia is so weak. In the academic arena, there are many areas which can be used to test authenticity rather than just 'some historical references'. This is what the author tries to do. personally, I think its good to financially support good unbiased research, it will simply create demand for more of the same! 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dalsingh101 Posted March 28, 2011 Report Share Posted March 28, 2011 My library couldn't get it. Shame. They told me to go the the British library. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dalsingh101 Posted March 28, 2011 Report Share Posted March 28, 2011 I have to add this. One thing that gets my goat sometimes is how frequently the agenda of Sikh Studies gets driven by nonSikhs. I know that sometimes it is helpful to have fresh eyes cast onto things and I'm not saying nonSikh scholars shouldn't be able to comment on Sikhi (respectfully). But sometimes I just can't help but think that frequently our own scholars just seem to be 'coasting' and not really upping the bar in terms of Sikh studies these days. Operating in other people's trails. Is it because we have created this hyper conservative environment for the field amongst ourselves? I can partially understand the hawkishness because of the perception that people do publish supposedly objective 'research' with hidden agendas, but is a big part of it plain laziness and lack of funding? We did have quality scholars like Padam, Seetal, Ganda Singh, Jaggi etc. The decision to publish research in English or Panjabi seems to have a big impact on the subsequent level of knowledge of Sikhs raised in diaspora I reckon. That being said, I'm noticing more and more young Sikhs are taking the time to learn Gurmukhi and study their literature. This needs to be encouraged, fostered and supported unequivocally. The Sikh intelligentsia needs to expand and as a community we need to move away from the more negative aspects of rural mentality with it's indifference to knowledge acquisition and development. We need a community wide Sikh renaissance? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.