The Use Of Name Kaur

[kdsingh80]

I was reading a topic on sikhnet and I read post from serjinder singh.He is quite knowledgeable in Sikh history.

He always give arguement that using Kaur was never part of Sikhism and the late reformers introduced itGuru gobind singh ji only made Singh's compulsary for men.

here is what I read

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http://www.sikhnet.com/discussion/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=4821

However, the marriage protocol doesn't appear to have been in Sikh Panth as we perceive it now. To give an example, we remember Bhai Mani Singh ji with respect for his closeness to tenth Guru ji and the sacrifice he made by being cut bit by bit by the rulers.

Bhai Mani Singh had ten sons all of them except two were killed mostly in battles against Mughals or hill rajas. Seven of sons were born to his first wife and three to the second wife. First wife is mentioned in an entry in Bhat Vahi detailing the congratulatory singing by another family member when a boy was born in Amritsar long after tenth Guru ji. interestingly the name of the first wife was Seeto Bai (not Seeto Kaur) and that of the second Khemi (not Khem Kaur).

Surely, if the two wives had been baptised their names should have been having 'Kaur' as the second name. Even if the name Seeto Baee were to be imagined as a distorted version of say Seeto Kaur, then this would be disrespect to the Baptismal name. We do not find such distortions for male baptised names where second name 'Singh' would be substituted for something else. We do not hear Ranjit Singh being mentioned as Ranjit Das or Ranjit Chand.

I carry out genalogical researches as a hobby for my friends and reltives spread out in different parts of Panjab. I mostly use land record details during British period, however, prior to that the Haridwar Pandas provide excellent details of visitors coming for ashes immersions in Ganges (this was a fairly regular feature fo visitors with proper Singh names and belonging to long standing Sikh families).

In 95% of cases the female names of Singh families do not have 'Kaur' as second name. 'Devi' or 'Daee' or 'Deyee' is most common.

We must remember,that the Guru ke mahal now written as Sahib Kaur since end of nineteenth century was written as either 'Sahib Devan' (Gurdwara Mata Sahib Devan at Hazoor Sahib see history of Hazoor Sahib) or 'Sahib Devi' in many hukamnamas sent out by her from Delhi after tenth Guru ji's passing away. Invariably the text of the hukamnama begins as 'Mata Sahib Devi jio ki agya hai'.

Humbly

Serjinder Singh

Panjab Digital Library

http://www.panjabdigilib.org/webuser/se ... eed+Bilaas

Shaheed Bilas

Page 31 (printed Page number)

Page 41 (pdf file page number)

“ਸੰਮਤ 1863 ਬਿ: (1706 ਈ) ਦੀ ਜੇਠ ਸੁਦੀ ਚੌਥ ਨੂੰ ਦੇਸਾ ਸਿੰਘ ਭੱਟ ਦੀ ਟੋਲੀ ਅਮ੍ਰਿਤਸਰ ਪਹੁੰਚੀ ਭਾਈ ਮਨੀ ਸਿੰਘ ਦੇ ਪੋਤ੍ਰੇ ਭਾਗੂ ਸਿੰਘ ਦੀ ਵਧਾਈ ਲਈ। ਇਸ ਮੌਕਿਆ ਤੇ ਦੇਸਾ ਸਿੰਘ ਭੱਟ ਨੇ ਦੂਜਾ ਦੋਹਾ ਕਹਿਆ:- (In sambat bikrami 1863(1706 AD) on the Jeth lunar bright fortnight fourth day the team of Desa Singh Bhat reached Amritsar to sing congratulation at the birth of Bhagoo Singh, the grandson of Bhai Mani Snigh. On this occasion Desa Singh Bhat recited this Doha (couplet)

ਜਲਹਾਨੇ ਪੰਵਾਰ ਬਾਂਕੇ ਅਲੀ ਪੁਰ ਕੇ ਬੰਝਰਉਤੋ ! ਤਉ ਸੇ ਕੌਨ ਅਰੈ । (O, the handsome Banjhaurats of the Jalhan Panwar family of Alipur ! Who is that could ever stand up against you.

ਜਸਵਾਰੀ ਗਾਮ ਕਾ ਮਾਰਿਆ ਕੇਸਰੀ, ਹਾਥੀ ਗੈਲ ਲਰੈ । (You killed the Kesri of Jaswar hill town, when you fought against an elephant.)

ਬਚਿੱਤ੍ਰ ਸਿੰਘ ਤੇਰੀ ਬਰਛੀ ਰੋਸ਼ਨ, ਤੇਰੀ ਸਾਂਗ ਝਰਮਲ ਕਰੈ ।(O Bachitar Singh (son of Mani Singh) your legendary spear is ever shining, and your two-pronged spear is glittering)

ਤੇਰੇ ਨਾਮ ਬੀ ਰਿਪੂ ਥਰ ਥਰ ਕਾਂਪੈ, ਤੇਰੀ ਪਰਬਤੀ ਹਲਕ ਪਰੈ ।(Hearing your name the enemy trembles, hills tremble when you walk)

ਧਨ ਮਾਤਾ ਤਉ ਸੀਤੋ ਬਾਈ ਤੇਰੇ ਪਾਚ* ਸਪੂਤ ਰਨੈ ਲਰ ਮਰੈ ।( Blessed is you mother SEETO BAEE, five of your sons died fighting in the battlefield)

*ਭਾਈ ਉਦੇ ਸਿੰਘ, ਭਾਈ ਅਨਿਕ ਸਿੰਘ, ਭਾਈ ਅਜਬ ਸਿੰਘ, ਭਾਈ ਅਜਾਇਬ ਸਿੰਘ ਚਮਕੌਰ ਵਿਚ ਸ਼ਹੀਦ ਹੋਏ, ਭਾਈ ਬਚਿਤ੍ਰ ਸਿੰਘ ਰੋਪੜ ਨਜ਼ਦੀਕ ਮਲਿਕ ਪੁਰ ਵਿਖੇ ਰੰਘੜਾਂ ਦੇ ਹੱਥੋਂ ਜ਼ਖਮੀ ਹੋ ਕੇ ਕੋਟਲਾ ਨਿਹੰਗ ਵਿਖੇ ਸਵਰਗਵਾਸ ਹੋਏ।“

Bhai Udey Singh, Bhai Anik Singh, Bhai Ajab Singh, Bhai Ajaib Singh died in Chamkaur, Bhai Bachiter Singh died at Kotla Nihang having been injurred at the hands of Ranghars (hindu rajput turned Muslims) in Malikpur near Ropar.

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Now I want to know whether this person is doing anti sikh propaganda or is it real because if it is a propaganda then the only scholars from SA can counter it.

[SURYADEV]

I heard this same thing many years ago, and personally I most likey do subscribe to this POV. Another name is Maharani Jindan. Over the last few years i've noticed a growing ttendancy to name her 'M. Jind Kaur'

I've also been told that the word KAUR actually means Prince not Princess.

[dalsingh101]

I'm sure Kaur was around preSingh Sabha, If anything they probably just standardised it and did away with the use of devi?

[amardeep]

Some of early Gurus sisters had the name kaur, but in the prem sumarag it says that females should recieve the name "devi" after baptism.

[kdsingh80]

I'm sure Kaur was around preSingh Sabha, If anything they probably just standardised it and did away with the use of devi?

Is there any puratan source of it ,if yes then could you please post some lines from it

[Guest zulu]

Some of early Gurus sisters had the name kaur, but in the prem sumarag it says that females should recieve the name "devi" after baptism.

First time I have heard of this, sounds interesting, could someone explain why they should have used the name devi? meaning behind it etc.

Thank you.

[Matheen]

I think the name 'Kaur' appears in Suraj Prakash, and some other historic Granths. Also think I've seen a letter signed 'Jindan Kaur' by the Rani.

[dalsingh101]

Is there any puratan source of it ,if yes then could you please post some lines from it

Sorry can't recall any direct source right now.

The topic makes me realise how one who has been interested in various aspects of Sikhi from childhood, picks up so many scraps of information from such a wide variety of sources over the years, that ideas can become firmly embedded in one's consciousness, and that from long forgotten sources.

However, it wouldn't surprise me if the idea may have originally been highlighted by the McLeodian school accounts. Check Harjot Oberoi from some leads in this department maybe?

Edited April 10, 2011 by dalsingh101

[amardeep]

Dorris Jakobsh has an article on the use of the name Kaur in the Sikh tradition in Pashaura Singhs book "Sikhism and history".

Her thesis was that the name Kaur did not appear as a firm sikh name untill the Singh sabha period, but Pashaura in a later article suggests that the name goes back to the early khalsa days and was only standardised by the singh sabhas..

[jaikaara]

Basically Kaur is the way Kuvar(prince, used by rajputs) ..is pronounced in punjabi.there are rajasthani names like Kuvar bai

there are names like KaurSingh so would you say this is like a yin and yang kinda name ?