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Interesting Video On Panjabi Language In Pakistan


dalsingh101
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Dal Singh Ji, note how he says that the shahmukhi texts in panjabi like sohini mahiwal pictured are of a classical language.

I did Bhai jee. It sort of opened my eyes up to the fact that sullay may have written a body of what might be classifiable as 'Classical literature'. As I said before (in the thread that miraculously disappeared) some goray also consider our Guru maharaj to be classical Panjabi literature too.

As 'Panjabis' we are pretty screwed in terms of literature because of what I'm beginning to see as an uncommonly hard division amongst people under that label, along religious fault lines. Having lived with Paki-Panjabis for a long while I know that thinking we can all get all 'Kum ba yaa M'lud' with each other around a camp fire and get over all animosity and hostility, is an idiotically naive notion. Especially with their notions of what is fair game with regards to sexually predatory actions towards jananees.

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When it comes to a language one has to ask what defines what should become standard. In Punjabi can Shahmukhi even be considered as Punjabi script if its introduction and use were for purposes intended to subvert native Punjabi? Or is there more to the history of the language?

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Guest Hinduveer

Actually there are a lot of errors in the video and misleading figures!

Punjabi is a dying religion in Pakistan, and the new generation of Youths whose parents may have been form Punjabi backgrounds all speak Urdu ( derived from Sanskrit Hindi, and Persian)

There are around 25-28 million Punjabis in Pakistan NOT 70 million, even the map he shows is misleading as much of Pakistani punjab has Balochis, Pathans, Biharis, Gujratis living there, and have whole areas accreditted to their own people.

He also has failed to account for :

1. Christian Punjabis, Hindu Punjabis and Sikh Punjabis living in the Punjab area of Pakistan

2. The fact that 99 per cent of todays so called Pakistani muslim punjabis are ex hindus/Sikhs and Mainly Buddists who were FORCED to convert to ISLAM under the sword

3. Christian Punjabis in India?

4. Sikh / Hindu Punjabi population in DELHI? Is around 10-12 million

5. Majority of Haryana and Himachal Pardesh is Hindu Punjabi again this adds another 30 million ( Haryana) and 25 million (Himachal Pardesh) punjabis, Punjabis in Delhi 10 million to his total of 30 million, which equals 95 million punjabis in India alone.

6. As for fertility rates, the Pakistani punjabis maybe re producing at a higher rate, but due to poorer health care and poverty how many of these children actually survive? I bet my bottom dollar the punjabis born in India have a much higher survival rate!

7. Hindu punjabis - 1st to speak punjabi, Buddists 2nd, Muslims 3rd, Sikh 4th, Christians 5th

I could go on , but am busy at work... THAT video is a joke!

THE ENTIRE POPULATION OF PAKISTAN IS 140 MILLION AND THIS FOOL IS CLAIMING over HALF OF IT ( 76 million) IS PUNJABI, LOLZ

What about the pathans, balochis, Sindi, Gujaratis, Behas, Afghani migrants, Biharis etc ? real figure of punjabis in Pakistan is 25- 28 million MAX!

Edited by Hinduveer
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Guest Hinduveer

PPS:

1. HE ALSO FAILED TO ACCOUNT FOR THE 20 -30 MILLION HINDUS/SIKHS THAT LEFT WEST PAKSITAN DURING PARTITION AND CAME AND SETTLED MAINLY IN DELHI, as they were mostly business people from Lahore and saw DELHI as the place to make money

2. In the 1990's and early 2000's many 100,000'S AFGHANI Sikhs Hindus came and settled in Delhi

Therefore the Delhi population of Punjabis must be higher than my previous estimate of 10 -12 million, rather closer to 20-25 million.

3. There is also a huge punjabi popualtion in Bhopal and Mumbai, Maharashtra

Edited by Hinduveer
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Punjabi is a dying religion in Pakistan, and the new generation of Youths whose parents may have been form Punjabi backgrounds all speak Urdu ( derived from Sanskrit Hindi, and Persian)

5. Majority of Haryana and Himachal Pardesh is Hindu Punjabi again this adds another 30 million ( Haryana) and 25 million (Himachal Pardesh) punjabis, Punjabis in Delhi 10 million to his total of 30 million, which equals 95 million punjabis in India alone.

Yes Haryanvis, who denied Panjabi as their mother tongue are better than those children who had no option but to learn whatever language their parents taught them? Hindus, the 1st to speak Panjabi, and the 1st to deny it as well.

In Pakistan everyone is taught Urdu as it is the national language, but people speak the regional language whereever they are. According to wikipedia only 7% of Pakistanis returned Urdu as their language, whereas 70% of Pakistan returned Panjabi as thier language. There are 180 Millions people in pakistan so do the maths.

AND FYI, the not all the Sikhs from Afghan can speak Panjabi.

Edited by chatanga1
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Guest Hinduveer

1. Certain Hindus in Haryana denied Punjabi as their mother tongue - due to POLITICAL REASONS, does not mean they are not punjabi. They did it as they wanted a seperate state in which they couldnt be dominated by sikhs.

2. Im Hindu Punjabi, and my family always proudly state punjabi as our mother tongue, as do majority Hindus from PUNJAB

3. Even if I accept that their are 180 million peeps in Pakiland, which I know is not correct, that still does not prove 76 mill are punjabis - your statement proves nothing

4. MAJORITY sikhs / Hindus from Afghanistan speak punjabi or are FROM punjabi backgrounds

Edited by Hinduveer
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1. Certain Hindus in Haryana denied Punjabi as their mother tongue - due to POLITICAL REASONS, does not mean they are not punjabi. They did it as they wanted a seperate state in which they couldnt be dominated by sikhs.

2. Im Hindu Punjabi, and my family always proudly state punjabi as our mother tongue, as do majority Hindus from PUNJAB

3. Even if I accept that their are 180 million peeps in Pakiland, which I know is not correct, that still does not prove 76 mill are punjabis - your statement proves nothing

4. MAJORITY sikhs / Hindus from Afghanistan speak punjabi or are FROM punjabi backgrounds

1. Hindus were a majority of 70% in Panjab after 1947, how could they be dominated by a community that was less than 30% ?

2. Well done to you and your family.

3. You dont need to take my word for it, just visit any website which is concerned with this information and read it for yourself.

http://www.infopak.g...BasicFacts.aspx says in 1998 consensus there was 132 mill and it is now estimated at 165 million. So even 70% of 132 Million still returns 90 odd millions as Panjabi speakers.

4. There were not millions of Hindus and Sikhs in Afghanistan, I dont know how many hindus there were, but from Sikhs who have come from Afghan, say there were about 50,000 Sikhs living there. You have raised your estimates from 10-12 million to 25 million on the basis of less than 50,000 sikhs and some hindus coming to Delhi.

What is really on your mind Hinduveer Ji? Are you scared that the Sikhs and Pakistan or Pakistani Panjabis have got something in common?

Edited by chatanga1
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Hindu 'veer' as usual talks BS. It wasn't Haryanvi Hindus that denied Punjabi, Punjabi was never there mother tongue in the first place. They spoke a variety of dialects of Hindi which they had always declared since the 1881 census when the language question was asked. It was Punjabi Hindus who denied Punjabi. The excuse that they didn't want a Sikh dominated state is a falsehood, if they had declared the truth in the 1961 census that their mother tongue was Punjabi then the Punjabi Suba would have been 25% larger with Ambala, Karnal, Sirsa, Simla and Kangra a part of Punjab. The Punjabi Hindus would have been 55% of this state and Sikhs 43%.

His claim that Punjabi Hindus and Sikhs are 10-12 million is Delhi shows how for some people writing BS becomes a way of life!

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Saying that 10-12 Million Punjabi Hindus and Sikhs in a clear falsehood. This would make the Punjabis 65% of the population of Delhi! There is a certain type of Indian in existence today who exaggerates everything. You come across these fools when they send out spam emails about how 30% of Nasa employees are Indians ! Even the Times of India published this BS until NASA denied it. BS Indians have always been around. Now it seems we have a new species called the BS Hindu Punjabi. If you go by the posts of Hindu 'Veer' especially the ones which claim to give statistical information you see just how much BS our Hindu Punjabi soorma throws forth!

Here's a link to the Punjabi language statistics taken in 2001

http://censusindia.gov.in/Census_Data_2001/Census_Data_Online/Language/parta.htm

Edited by tonyhp32
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All things said and done though, from my experiences when I was teaching 3rd generation Pak Panjabis knew Panjabi 100 times better than every 3rd generation apna I met, many of whom couldn't even verbally string sentences together or where scared to speak it. In contrast, Pak kids used to come up to me and start busting out fluent, high quality Panjabi without any encouragement.

What to make of it?

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Experiences are relative. In my previous job involving interviewing recent arrivals to the UK and 99.9% of all Pakistanis tended to speak in Urdu rather than Punjabi even though they had come from Pakistani Punjab. Some even stated that they didn't understand Punjabi! Ironically the Afghani Sikhs I interviewed were able to understand Punjabi better than these so-called Punjabis!

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Maybe it's a case of antiPanjabism becoming stronger in Pak in more recent times and those kids I encountered being the descendents of 70s freshies who didn't have the anti mentality as much?

Whatever the case maybe, the absolutely piss poor retention of Panjabi by 3rd generation Sikhs on the whole is pretty much undeniable. This seems to be a UK problem more than say a Canadian one for some reason. Maybe because teh pressure to assimilate to mainstream Anglo culture in Canada isn't as strong as in the UK?

Edited by dalsingh101
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Whatever the case maybe, the absolutely piss poor retention of Panjabi by 3rd generation Sikhs on the whole is pretty much undeniable.

absolutely. my own relatives cannot even understand panjabi words.

although the few paki panjabis ive met, all have kids who speak urdu rather than panjabi, and this is at the parents behest as well.

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although the few paki panjabis ive met, all have kids who speak urdu rather than panjabi, and this is at the parents behest as well.

Maybe its because most of the Pakistani folk in this country are from Mirpur area. From what I've seen they are Urdu speakers. The Pak-Panjabis are very few in numbers in the UK. That is why the perception we have of what is a Pakistani is based on what we see of the Mirpuris, not of the Panjabis or Karachis/Sindhis. I have noticed some friction between the Mirpuri and Panjabi Pakistanis when speaking to them.

Though whatever the reasons, I have also noticed Pak kids have better knowledge of their language AND culture than our Indo-Panjbai kids. How many times have you noticed Pak kids wearing traditional clothing as soon as they come home from school. in the 80's/90's I very rarely saw our kids wear a kurta.

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Point is Paks seem to retain their heritage language (be this Panjabi or Urdu or Pashtu) better than apnay.

Overall, we are generally lax about matters of transmitting faith and heritage in our quom. Which is ironic because (as the video states) the SIkh community has done more to develop the Panjabi language than anyone else?

The simple truth is that we generally prioritise economic progression over these things at ground level.

Edited by dalsingh101
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Suryadev, im talking only about Panjabi Pakis here, not mirpuris, although mirpur was once part of panjab, but became part of Khasmir when GUlab Singh bought it from the britsh.

Dal Bhaji, the sikh people by and large these days, seem to view economic progress as the sign of being successful religion/community.

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  • 2 weeks later...

Dal Bhaji, the sikh people by and large these days, seem to view economic progress as the sign of being successful religion/community.

That's so true. Though it does seem a bit 'soulless.

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  • 2 weeks later...

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