Sikhism going universal/world wide as its essence message but are we ready?

[CdnSikhGirl]

 

Type in Saville, Rolf Harris.

 

You must be really simple minded to trust mainstream white media outlets. 

Well CBC and CTV are Canadian and I have Kashmiri to stay in touch with whats going on in Kashmir.  

I don't trust a lot of internet news sites because many are even worse falsified than TV.  

[dalsingh101]

Well CBC and CTV are Canadian and I have Kashmiri to stay in touch with whats going on in Kashmir.  

I don't trust a lot of internet news sites because many are even worse falsified than TV.  

Nothing is more lamestream than mainstream, which is essentially just scarcely concealed propaganda for the anglosphere.  

 

You should try and avoid it, they are essentially mentally conditioning you to be a sheep.  

[jaikaara]

Do you know even what slander means Jaikara?  Slander per dictionary definition is a false SPOKEN statement designed to publicly degrade. 

First of all... everything here is typed not spoken, so if it was written and still designed to degrade, it would be libel.  However nothing I brought up has been a false statement designed to degrade.  The concerns I brought up about the Damdami Taksal Rehet Maryada, I directly quote them, and then point out the concerns using Gurbani to back it up.  So that means 2) It was not a false statement (I provide screenshots) and 3) It was not by design made to degrade anything.... being concerned about inconsistencies in something is not the same as degrading something.

Second, taking one Gurbani tuk out of context and using it to make the statement that women must bow down to men as Gods over them, very much IS by design constructing a statement designed to degrade. 1) It is a false statement because the tuk actually refers to something completely different which has nothing at all to do with human female wives and seeing human male husbands as God  2) By design it very much IS intended to degrade... women and it also is degrading to Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji to make the false statement that it looks down upon females when in reality it does not. 

Therefore, several of you are FAR more guilty of LIBEL not slander than am I.  And finally, in a court of law, libel / slander must be proven that it actually DID cause defamation of character to the recipient.  If it did not, then there was no slander / libel.  

If nobody is allowed to point out any inconsistencies in any Jathas even using Gurbani to back it up, then Sikhism has a serious problem.   Also, any rules of the above should also (if not more) be applicable to Akal Takht's Rehet Maryada printed by SGPC since it's the recognized Rehet Maryada... not any Jathas ones.  However you seem to be ok with slaner / libel of SRM?? Since you have not spoken against it at all on here.

Wanda !!!!! yaar thoda ghat likkho...inna parhh nahi sakda...( dear friend please write a little less ..cant read so much ) see how i am going to make you familiar with Punjabi..

the thing is what i meant by slander was not you were like actually purposefully slandering . The Punjabis use terms  to address the Gurus which mean respect.

in your arguments what you dont realize is when you talk about body parts and a number of things in relation to the Gurus , it is certainly not taken in a respectful manner. You differences with any jatha is not my point. I completely understand it is difficult for you to follow certain concepts, but please understand that this is not islam that the ulema is the sole authority to decide how you should follow Dharam.

The reason for conflict with the types of Sarabjit dhunda and Darshan ragi is , it couild be a personal matter when a person may not want to accept certain parts of Gurbani. HOwever it is a serious offense to organize mass conventions to drill their concepts in a offensive way. They have used words like porn to term Gurbani and even gone so low as to sing Jaap sahib adding derogatory words and making fun of the bani.

With little idea of Indic values you tend to convey things in a manner which is hurting feelings. I am not demeaning you and your faith but please dont be so argumentative and aggressively take feminism as your religion.

Sikhi in one line for me is ...Tuhi Tuhi Tuhi Tuhi...(Its You ..Its You...Its You..Its You - Bani Sri Akaal Ustat Sahib by Sri Guru Gobindsingh ji Maharaj adressing Akaal Purakh ). No Man ..No Woman...Only AkaaaL....AkaaaaL....AkaaaL....AkaaaL...

[CdnSikhGirl]

Sikhi in one line for me is ...Tuhi Tuhi Tuhi Tuhi...(Its You ..Its You...Its You..Its You - Bani Sri Akaal Ustat Sahib by Sri Guru Gobindsingh ji Maharaj adressing Akaal Purakh ). No Man ..No Woman...Only AkaaaL....AkaaaaL....AkaaaL....AkaaaL...

I guess what I find difficult with *some* sects in Sikhism is that Sikhi is supposed to be about ^^^^that  ONLY Akaaall ---- 

There is only ONE in existence and that ONE IS ALL.  ALL IS that ONE.  To me, duality is not the way to find that ONE. To me, the way to find that ONEness is to practice ONEness in daily life.  I guess that's where I have trouble seeing how traditional Indic customs of placing restrictions on one gender, while giving the other gender full privileges, to me that is causing more duality, reinforcing more separateness... " you look different than me therefore I'll give you less opportunities" kind of thing.  When I strive to look for ONEness and inclusiveness to break that duality, it seems like these sects put up roadblocks that instead reinforce duality by trying to tell me over and over "YOU can't because you are female and I CAN because I am male"  when what I see is there is no you and I.  There is only Akaal Purakh.  I see only that light within each person, and not the temporary gender.  In my whole life I have never imagined telling a guy that I will disallow him to do something because he is a male.  I kind of giggle about the Mother thing... because a male can be just as much a parent, participate just as much in raising a child.  Who carries and gives birth is meaningless... or else adoptive parents would never have a bond with their adopted children.  It's not who gives birth, but who actually raises a child that is their parents.  Men and women can both do that equally.  But it's participation in the religion itself... it's when you read something which says to see ALL with single eye of equality and that the divine light is equally in ALL, but then you have adherents who practice it totally differently - to the point they tell me the way I have been practicing it is wrong - and that this way which only perpetuates more duality doesn't make sense to me.  The ultimate truth is ONEness.  Not male and female.  The ultimate truth is ONE.  not two (genders or otherwise).  So I get a bit frustrated when Singhs wish to create more duality by telling me "You CAN'T because you ARE female"  I am not female... I a soul who is genderless who is temporarily inhabiting a female gendered body.  My soul is the exact same as yours, so in matters relating to religion, we should be equally treated.  Those who say "no WOMAN gave her head that day as an excuse..." I see NO WOMAN, I see NO MAN.  I only see separate instances of the ONE same light.  My intention is not cause any insult. I am trying to show people this reality.... but I feel I am being dragged back into duality more... Is Sikhi about creating more duality....did I miss something?  I thought Sikhi was about REMOVING duality! 

 

Edited October 23, 2015 by Satkirin_Kaur

[jaikaara]

I guess what I find difficult with *some* sects in Sikhism is that Sikhi is supposed to be about ^^^^that  ONLY Akaaall ---- 

There is only ONE in existence and that ONE IS ALL.  ALL IS that ONE.  To me, duality is not the way to find that ONE. To me, the way to find that ONEness is to practice ONEness in daily life.  I guess that's where I have trouble seeing how traditional Indic customs of placing restrictions on one gender, while giving the other gender full privileges, to me that is causing more duality, reinforcing more separateness... " you look different than me therefore I'll give you less opportunities" kind of thing.  When I strive to look for ONEness and inclusiveness to break that duality, it seems like these sects put up roadblocks that instead reinforce duality by trying to tell me over and over "YOU can't because you are female and I CAN because I am male"  when what I see is there is no you and I.  There is only Akaal Purakh.  I see only that light within each person, and not the temporary gender.  In my whole life I have never imagined telling a guy that I will disallow him to do something because he is a male.  I kind of giggle about the Mother thing... because a male can be just as much a parent, participate just as much in raising a child.  Who carries and gives birth is meaningless... or else adoptive parents would never have a bond with their adopted children.  It's not who gives birth, but who actually raises a child that is their parents.  Men and women can both do that equally.  But it's participation in the religion itself... it's when you read something which says to see ALL with single eye of equality and that the divine light is equally in ALL, but then you have adherents who practice it totally differently - to the point they tell me the way I have been practicing it is wrong - and that this way which only perpetuates more duality doesn't make sense to me.  The ultimate truth is ONEness.  Not male and female.  The ultimate truth is ONE.  not two (genders or otherwise).  So I get a bit frustrated when Singhs wish to create more duality by telling me "You CAN'T because you ARE female"  I am not female... I a soul who is genderless who is temporarily inhabiting a female gendered body.  My soul is the exact same as yours, so in matters relating to religion, we should be equally treated.  Those who say "no WOMAN gave her head that day as an excuse..." I see NO WOMAN, I see NO MAN.  I only see separate instances of the ONE same light.  My intention is not cause any insult. I am trying to show people this reality.... but I feel I am being dragged back into duality more... Is Sikhi about creating more duality....did I miss something?  I thought Sikhi was about REMOVING duality! 

 

Arguing wont take you anywhere my friend , the time we spend arguing can be utilized reading something worthwhile. I had a few feminists in my circle and am well acquainted to how they think so your posts didn't surprise me .

There are many reasons to a lot of things , choose the best leave the rest.

 

[CdnSikhGirl]

Arguing wont take you anywhere my friend , the time we spend arguing can be utilized reading something worthwhile. I had a few feminists in my circle and am well acquainted to how they think so your posts didn't surprise me .

There are many reasons to a lot of things , choose the best leave the rest.

 

Not arguing... I think what's best for me is to stick with like minded Sikhs or else I will only go backward into more duality. Right now, I see everyone on equal level. Its why I help anyone I can in real life and why I fight for equality and stand up for injustice and I am not afraid to do so. The only context of the word "can't" that I know is:
I CAN'T go back to toward duality when I am trying to surpass it completely. I would just be hindering my own progress.  All else, there is no "can't" The only limitations are the limitations we ourselves as humans set.  You might not understand because you are on the side of privilege in the male vs female debate so you will never ever be negatively affected.  You will never be told you "can't" do something.  All seva is open to you, all leadership positions are open to you.  You never have to feel left out of anything as far as Sikhi goes, no matter what jatha or sect you visit.  Just please never ever take that for granted bcause others don't have that privilege.  For me, I have to stay with like minded Sikhs in order to be able to fully participate.

I wish you well.

[jaikaara]

Not arguing... I think what's best for me is to stick with like minded Sikhs or else I will only go backward into more duality. Right now, I see everyone on equal level. Its why I help anyone I can in real life and why I fight for equality and stand up for injustice and I am not afraid to do so. The only context of the word "can't" that I know is:
I CAN'T go back to toward duality when I am trying to surpass it completely. I would just be hindering my own progress.  All else, there is no "can't" The only limitations are the limitations we ourselves as humans set.  You might not understand because you are on the side of privilege in the male vs female debate so you will never ever be negatively affected.  You will never be told you "can't" do something.  All seva is open to you, all leadership positions are open to you.  You never have to feel left out of anything as far as Sikhi goes, no matter what jatha or sect you visit.  Just please never ever take that for granted bcause others don't have that privilege.  For me, I have to stay with like minded Sikhs in order to be able to fully participate.

I wish you well.

I am a non amritdhari from a hindu background , i too cannot do a lot of things which amritdharis can do . I have to sort this out myself. I had suggested you once that you should get in touch with 3ho , they are more open to a number of issues. I dont judge them as i dont judge anyone else . Its upto you to decide what you feel is better.

Pages and pages of arguments will not lead you or the sangat here anywhere , lets discuss what we feel is positive.

[CdnSikhGirl]

I am a non amritdhari from a hindu background , i too cannot do a lot of things which amritdharis can do . I have to sort this out myself. I had suggested you once that you should get in touch with 3ho , they are more open to a number of issues. I dont judge them as i dont judge anyone else . Its upto you to decide what you feel is better.

Pages and pages of arguments will not lead you or the sangat here anywhere , lets discuss what we feel is positive.

There is n 3HO here and I am not into yoga lol or wearing all white... my sangat here are all Punjabi but they follow Sikh Rehet Maryada and nobody is limited from doing anything. I am in fact on the Gurdwara Management Committee here locally - as a Gori - at a nearly all Punjabi Gurdwara.  I dont have any desire to abandon these people nor adopt a yoga / Sikhi hybrid.  I don't think there is anything wrong with doing yoga... but I just wouldn't feel comfortable mixing it with kirtan, ardas etc.  And I like to wear colourful suits :)
And I thought ridding ourselves of duality IS positive... how can it be at all negative??

 

 

 

Edited October 23, 2015 by Satkirin_Kaur

[paapiman]

If a person is fully aware that the majority of the people on a forum, believe in Sri Dasam Granth Sahib jee (in its entirety), it is very rude and offensive for that person to degrade that Gurbani. Why would that person not leave that forum? After all, there are other Sikh forums out there too. One has full rights to inquire about concepts on the forum, but must never ill-mouth any Sikh value/ethic/concept or Gurbani. Hurting Sikh sentiments on a Sikh forum, is pretty despicable behavior.

Daas has great respect for n30 paaji and co., as they are (or at least seem to be) firm believers of all Gurbani. Daas would not want to be on a forum, where the stupid admin, himself, is a Guru-nindak. Daas would try to leave such a forum to join some other forum (if possible), where one's line of thinking matches (at least on elementary level).

 

Bhul chuk maaf

[Guest]

It's also rude and offensive to degrade the Rehet Maryada which is the only one accepted by Akal Takht.  You can't be a hypocrite and have things your way when they work for you but then do the same thing and think it's ok because you don't believe in that thing.  Open dabate is perfectly fine on any subject or else you are controlling free speech on a forum which would be wrong to do.  The fact remains, there are a huge amount of Sikhs who do not follow Damdami Taksal or their rehet maryada.

Openly calling SRM 'So called' etc is not "open debate" - it was meant to be purposely degrading remark- therefore you are guilty of the very thing for which you are speaking against Paapiman.  You can't have it both ways.  You expect people to totally respect what you believe in, while you openly degrade what they believe in.  That is not right.  You feel your sentiments are hurt? What about those whose sentiments YOU are hurting?? It goes both ways!

SK - at Work

[CdnSikhGirl]

In conclusion I think at this point for many Punjabi Siks it is virtually impossible for them to separate Sikhi from Punjabi culture ...and become angry sometimes to the point of viciousness if anyone tries to practice Sikhi without all the Pinjabi cultural aspects dating back to the time of the Gurus fully intact.... so no I do not think they are ready for Sikhi to be a Universal religion.  Which is a shame because I believe Gurbani taken alone does not require Punjabi culture practices and even speaks against many!  And so many people around the world could benefit from simran, Kirtan etc.  So it's sad... 

[jaikaara]

There is n 3HO here and I am not into yoga lol or wearing all white... my sangat here are all Punjabi but they follow Sikh Rehet Maryada and nobody is limited from doing anything. I am in fact on the Gurdwara Management Committee here locally - as a Gori - at a nearly all Punjabi Gurdwara.  I dont have any desire to abandon these people nor adopt a yoga / Sikhi hybrid.  I don't think there is anything wrong with doing yoga... but I just wouldn't feel comfortable mixing it with kirtan, ardas etc.  And I like to wear colourful suits :)And I thought ridding ourselves of duality IS positive... how can it be at all negative??

 

 

 

Thats fine , i understand . If you are on the Gurdwara board you have sangat and are getting along with them then its all good for you provided you dont get into any conflict with how things are working.

I didnt know 3ho would wear white all the time, tell us your experience being on the board how people look at having you there etc. lets talk some general things too.

[amardeep]

Isn't there anyone in the Gurdwara who can teach you punjabi?

as Basics of SIkhi and others have pointed out it is also important that Sikh institutions in the west are facing their own countries instead of being turned towards India/Punjab. Many have talked about creating new Takths in Europe and America which I think would be a great idea.

[paapiman]

One cannot compare stating flaws in a man-made document (the so-called SRM - never accepted by the entire Panth), to insulting Gurbani, which was uttered by the Almighty Lord himself (which amounts to utter blasphemy).

Back to topic - Amardeep paaji - can you please provide more details about creating new Takhts? Thanks

Bhul chuk maaf

[CdnSikhGirl]

Thats fine , i understand . If you are on the Gurdwara board you have sangat and are getting along with them then its all good for you provided you dont get into any conflict with how things are working.

I didnt know 3ho would wear white all the time, tell us your experience being on the board how people look at having you there etc. lets talk some general things too.

I was elected last year for 2015 treasurer position.  I have been attending the Gurdwara here nearly every week for almost 5 years now.  One thing we have which is good is the projection screen and all the shabads are on there with Gurmukhi, Romanized, and English translation.... Same like the LCD screens at Darbar Sahib. 

Yes 3HO does things very differently.  Some strange that I just would not feel right doing. Like I have seen videos of them with turbans removed and swinging their kesh around while dancing wildly to Gurbani. I have seen some of them doing idol worship to Siri Chand statues etc and on FB Sikhism group someone posted photos of an Amritdhari couple being married by Hindu customs around havan complete with sindoor.  But they had 5 k's and turban too.... It was in Rishikesh I think.  Their Darbar always involves yoga some of which can be borderline sexual in nature.  It's entirely a different hybrid between Sikhi and Hinduism so it's just not what I am looking for.  And pls don't think I am saying anything bad about Hinduism... I just think mixing two religions can be bad for both (and confusing). 

[Guest]

One cannot compare stating flaws in a man-made document (the so-called SRM - never accepted by the entire Panth), to insulting Gurbani, which was uttered by the Almighty Lord himself (which amounts to utter blasphemy).

Back to topic - Amardeep paaji - can you please provide more details about creating new Takhts? Thanks

Bhul chuk maaf

Temporal leadership of the Sikhs was passed on to the Khalsa by Guru Gobing Singh Ji himself with the bestowed title of "Guru Panth" embodiment of the Guru, and spiritual leadership was passed on to (only) Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji with the Khalsa being responsible for all executive, military and civil authority in the Sikh society. So your argument does not hold. Sikh Rehet Maryada was arrived at by decision of Guru Panth which is embodiment of our Guru and took reference to all the historical documents but using Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji as final spiritual authority. Guru Ji's Khalsa IS embodiment of the Guru and Guru Ji himself gave this authority on the Panth. I think you have forgotten this Paapi and that's why you find it so easy to disrespect Sikh Rehet Maryada. Yes there are different jatha who have their own but all of them arrived at their respective Rehet Maryadas using this same Guru given authority so they should ALL be respected even if you disagree with some.  The fact that Sikh Rehet Maryada is the only one accepted by Akal Takht should be more reason to at least respect it and not use deragatory titles like 'so called' don't you think? 

[Guest]

Not to mention Damdami Taksal Rehet Maryada was not accepted by the entire Panth either... 

Sk work

[Koi]

Using the reason that the SRM is the only RM accepted by the Akaal Takht is flawed for 2 big reasons:

1. The people running the Akaal Takht do not always make the right decisions, and 

2. The SRM has plenty of flaws e.g. the Nitnem, our most basic rehat. 

I'm sorry but, as useful as the SRM is in uniting the Panth, it is, by every account, inherently flawed.

Read 5 baanis in the morning? Not if you follow SRM.

Read long chaupaee and rehraas? Not in the SRM.

Read rakhiya de shabad before sohila? Not in the SRM.

Respect the baani of 10 master on par with SGGSJ? The SRM contradicts itself at this point!

Etc. Etc. Etc!

SRM is a good document for uniting the Panth. But it is not by any stretch of the imagination the be all and end all of Sikhi.

Edited October 24, 2015 by Koi

[Guest]

Actually if you follow SRM nothing is stopping you from reading five Banis in the AM... At least I have not seen anything saying its against it.

same with he other points.. It's not saying you can not do that! It's saying this is the minimum requirement. If you do more SRM not speaking against that at all!

Damdami Taksals has its own flaws like telling women to view heir husband as God (redundant since all Sikhs are to see God in each other) and then says that creation of the Khalsa eliminated all distinctions including caste colour etc and gender is specifically stated. So it's also not perfect either. Are women subordinate to men or not?   

SRM gives option if you want to read three or five Banis in AM while DDTs does not give option at all. SRM says raagmala should be in SGGSJ but gives option of including it in a akhand paaths or not - so SRM is the more inclusive RM panthically.  

 So in the end why can't we accept each other's differences and respect all of them, but just follow the one you took Amrit under.  Saying so called all the time is blatant disrespect.  

[Guest]

Another point DDTs RM also says straight out you are NOT to bow to any other as your Guru or hold any other on par to SGGSJ.  

Sk work

[Ragmaala]

That is why we have so many maryadas. Because we have the option of choosing from so many. One can choose anyone they like. You can choose from SGPC, Damdami Taksal, Nanaksar, Rara Sahib, Nihang Singh & Hazoor Sahib.Personally I combine the elements from Nanaksar, Hazur Sahib and some elements of Damadami taksal, leaving the kattar aspects aside. Some people are more inclined towards their sants. I see so many options as a bouqet of different fragrant flowers.

There is a path for everyone, question is do you want to walk it?

 

[CdnSikhGirl]

That is why we have so many maryadas. Because we have the option of choosing from so many. One can choose anyone they like. You can choose from SGPC, Damdami Taksal, Nanaksar, Rara Sahib, Nihang Singh & Hazoor Sahib.Personally I combine the elements from Nanaksar, Hazur Sahib and some elements of Damadami taksal, leaving the kattar aspects aside. Some people are more inclined towards their sants. I see so many options as a bouqet of different fragrant flowers.

There is a path for everyone, question is do you want to walk it?

 

I think most important is follow SGGSJ - our only Guru.  If you become Amrtidhari, follow the RM that given to you by Panj Pyaras.  You are actually BOUND to the one that THEY pass to you.  Will this cause some to shop for the jatha that most suits them? Yes... it will.  Does that matter in the grand scheme of things? No... because ultimately this journey is a PERSONAL one.  Sikhi is not so much about outer rehet.  It's inner rehet which matters most.  Outer rehet is meaningless if it actually takes you AWAY from your personal INNER path.  After all, each and every one of us, is traversing this journey ultimately alone!  And as someone else put it earlier, stick to the jatha or group that most matches how you are travelling the path.  
 

For me, Sikh Rehet Maryada is the best one as far as being unified.  Because it does not preclude reading more banis, it does not preclude ending akhand paaths etc with raagmala, it does not prevent you from doing longer rehras sahib, or adding more to sohila etc.  It's giving the minimums.  Now, that is more inclusive because DDT members could still do everything they do, and still be within the SRM.  Same can not be said the other way around.  We should focus on our OWN journey, instead of trying to enforce things on others.  This is why the minimum requirements are the best to have laid out in a written format, and then let jathas who wish to be more restrictive to add on top of that.  Most cases this works just fine.  If we take the most restrictive RMs however, and try to enforce that on the panth, what you will end up with is FAR FAR fewer people ever taking Amrit. Some of you might say well they don't deserve to be Khalsa then if they can't follow the most restrictive RM.  But then you are actually encouraging exclusivity instead of inclusivity.  Amrit Sanchar is not a certificate of purity.  It's the beginning.. not the end result.  It's a license to learn and not the degree so to speak.  You don't want to scare all your prospective students away to the point that very few will ever take Amrit. So it's better to have what the minimum requirements are in writing, and then have individual decide where to go after that (as long as it's not backwards).  

Those who keep saying over and over that SRM was not accepted by the entire panth, keep forgetting that the other RMs were not accepted by the entire panth either!  In fact many more follow SRM than follow the jatha specific RMs. There are far more Sikhs around the world who do not associate with specific jathas or sects than there are who do.  And SRM can be followed by ALL sects without causing issue... when it says read 3 nitnem banis in morning, that is the minimum. Its not stopping anyone from reading 5!  Etc.  SRM says raagmala is part of bani and should be included in SGGSJ.  However reading it as part of akhand paaths etc it says is up to who is doing it.  So it's not stopping DDT for example, from including it at end of akhand paaths.  See my point?  The ONLY issue which might be of contention is that SRM stresses equality of gender, and full participation by women in seva, including Panj Pyaras.  So yes, by excluding women, they would be going against it on that one issue.  

So yes, SRM does deserve respect as it's the most inclusive of all of the RMs.  All jathas can pretty much follow SRM without breaking it, and still follow their jatha specific things.  SRM was written the way it was specifically to BE INCLUSIVE of all the sects as much as possible.  So even if one does not follow it, they should respect that it took over 13 years, and over hundreds Sikhs to complete with aim on being all inclusive as much as possible, and creating an RM as the base RM or minimum for all Amritdhari Sikhs.  Those who try to say it was never accepted by "all" of the panth, conveniently forget that the RM they follow was also not accepted by "all" of the panth either.  

Please respect all of the RMs, but follow the RM that you were given at Amrit Sanchar.  And don't try to force jatha specific RMs on others outside of those jathas.  All of them should not be purposely disrespected over and over with things like "so-called" etc. because in the case of SRM it was arrived at by Guru Panth... which is embodiment of the Guru.  Please remember that.  

 

 

[Koi]

^ agreed. SRM is inclusive of the entire panth, and should be respected as such.

Couldn't have put it better myself.....Oh wait, I did! ;)

[CdnSikhGirl]

^ agreed. SRM is inclusive of the entire panth, and should be respected as such.

Couldn't have put it better myself.....Oh wait, I did! ;)

Yes you did...but you also made it sound like reading 5 banis in the morning is somehow against SRM.  It's not... there is nothing stopping anyone from reading 5 banis in the morning, etc.  Just the way you wrote:

"I'm sorry but, as useful as the SRM is in uniting the Panth, it is, by every account, inherently flawed.

Read 5 baanis in the morning? Not if you follow SRM.

Read long chaupaee and rehraas? Not in the SRM.

Read rakhiya de shabad before sohila? Not in the SRM."
 

SRM is not saying that you can not do any of the above! Just because it states minimums, doesn't mean you can't go above and beyond these minimums and do all of the above! 

[SAadmin]

Coming back to the topic, one thing we lacked in parchar was depth of sikhi in english out in west as amardeep singh pointed out earlier.

For example- Whilst indic religions such as hinduism, buddhism, zen, mahayana, advaita has bought its essence message on youtube either via meditation, meditation tracks, meditation visuals, lecture, seminars, discourses we totally lack behind. 

 Just give it a quick try, go on youtube type in om, you will see countless youtube meditation/chanting om tracks which is loved by all viewers as its rightly described as universal sound where as our Ikongkar or oan / vahiguru meditative tracks are nowhere to be seen.

Anyway, for last few years i tried my best by maharaj kirpa to bring sikhi to universal meditation platform as well on youtube by bringing sikh meditative mantras, mixing audio/videos. Check it out here: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC-CU7u_LjUhwBh6y0CF-AhA/videos

We need big improvement on parchar on area dept of sikhi. Unfortunately, basic of sikhi parchar has limitations just does not not cut it as far as exploring deeper finer layers of sikhi ....we need full framework of depth of sikhi.  

Edited October 25, 2015 by N30 S!NGH