This should be the last topic on this matter

[Singh123456777]

I saw this pic today on Facebook. 

 

Can n30 veer please close this thread when the shit starts hitting the roof?

Edited October 27, 2015 by Singh123456777

[CdnSikhGirl]

LOL Please dont be so divisive... There's obviously a LOT of overlap.  As humans we are individuals and every one of us have different skill sets. We should never dictate to someone what they are allowed or not allowed to do. Their own merits should be the only thing which determines what they can do.  There is going to be a WHOLE LOT of overlap!!! 

Case in point:  Men are perfectly capable of cooking their own dinner, serving it to themselves, cleaning their dishes afterward.  I guess women don't need to do those things anymore then right? Because we are only supposed to do what men *can't* do??  Men are perfectly capable of scrubbing the toilet out, playing with their children, sweeping the floor, vacuuming.  I guess going by this the only women are supposed to do is pop out a baby and breast feed.  Leave everything else to men?? LOL  I am sure MANY women would actually agree to that!  But I digress... please do not undermine the contributions that MANY MANY women have made in science, medicine, and even the military.  I take it from your post you think I should not be doing what I am doing... directing a whole sound room team and making recommendations to Command on a submarine.... because submarines were VERY much all male until only recently.  You think I would be better off changing nappies and serving men dinner?  I'd be miserable!  

 

 

 

[Lucky]

Men are MEN

Women are WOMEN..........and that's it

Ask how many men would punch or side-kick a woman in the same way as they would a man?   .....I know that the very few men who would smack a women in exactly the same way, would also be the one's who would say "egual rights...we all the same....there you go....equal sucker punch"

 

[CdnSikhGirl]

Men are MEN

Women are WOMEN..........and that's it

Ask how many men would punch or side-kick a woman in the same way as they would a man?   .....I know that the very few men who would smack a women in exactly the same way, would also be the one's who would say "egual rights...we all the same....there you go....equal sucker punch"

 

Nobody should be sucker punching anyone LOL

[dalsingh101]

Men are MEN

Women are WOMEN..........and that's it

Ask how many men would punch or side-kick a woman in the same way as they would a man?   .....I know that the very few men who would smack a women in exactly the same way, would also be the one's who would say "egual rights...we all the same....there you go....equal sucker punch"

 

Nah, as a last resort, you can use a 'b1tch slap'. That's if you are under an imminent attack yourself. 

 

In the last few years I've met a few effed up men who've been getting beaten up by their wives - seriously!

 

If any tried that on me, she'd get b1tch slapped and shown the door. I feel sorry for some of the men though, as the women apparently take it out on their young children. 

Edited October 28, 2015 by dalsingh101

[CdnSikhGirl]

Anyone abusing anyone is wrong... Male or female. Nobody should be abusing others. Period. Why can't people just respect each other and treat each other how they would want to be treated? 

[kdsingh80]

LOL Please dont be so divisive... There's obviously a LOT of overlap.  As humans we are individuals and every one of us have different skill sets. We should never dictate to someone what they are allowed or not allowed to do. Their own merits should be the only thing which determines what they can do.  There is going to be a WHOLE LOT of overlap!!! 

Case in point:  Men are perfectly capable of cooking their own dinner, serving it to themselves, cleaning their dishes afterward.  I guess women don't need to do those things anymore then right? Because we are only supposed to do what men *can't* do??  Men are perfectly capable of scrubbing the toilet out, playing with their children, sweeping the floor, vacuuming.  I guess going by this the only women are supposed to do is pop out a baby and breast feed.  Leave everything else to men?? LOL  I am sure MANY women would actually agree to that!  But I digress... please do not undermine the contributions that MANY MANY women have made in science, medicine, and even the military.  I take it from your post you think I should not be doing what I am doing... directing a whole sound room team and making recommendations to Command on a submarine.... because submarines were VERY much all male until only recently.  You think I would be better off changing nappies and serving men dinner?  I'd be miserable!  

 

 

 

When we talk about gender roles we talk about what majority do or prefer. There are fire brand Sadhvi's in Hindutva.They cut their hair short wear male dresses and live like men, but tell Hindu's to have more kids or marry muslim women. They have command over 1000s of men.They never do what an average Hindu woman is expected to do 

 

Just a question can you tell what is percentage of women doing male dominated jobs, In New york only 1% percent taxi drivers are women. Only 7 % women are commercial pilots in developed nations, only 4% percentage are firefighters 

http://www.news.com.au/finance/work/mambais-sewer-divers-make-your-job-look-like-the-greatest-profession-in-the-world/story-fnkgbb6w-1227532404297

Look at above news about Mumbai sewer cleaners , almost all men doing hellish jobs. Most of them will be happy if they cook and play with children rather than manually cleaning sewers.

Do Any Women Work at the Dirty, Difficult and Dangerous Jobs that Men Do? Any Women At All?

99% of garbage collectors are men.*

100% of deep sea fishermen are men.

100% of electrical power line installers are men.

100% of roughnecks (work the oil drill) are men.

Don’t see any women doing this scary, dangerous job

99% of auto repair mechanics are men.*

99% of roofers are men.*

100% of heating, air conditioning and refrigeration mechanics are men.

98% of metal fabricators are men.

97% of aircraft maintenance and service technicians are men.

95.5% of firefighters are men

92% of construction workers are men.

88% of patrol officers are men.

 

Even this is a model, not a real worker

Women are counted as highway maintenance workers, but they aren’t spreading sizzling hot asphalt, and digging ditches. They are holding up “Stop” and “Slow” signs. Females made up 2.5% of road crews.

In 2006, according to U.S. Bureau of Labor Stats, 5,396 men and 444 women were killed on the job.

http://stakedintheheart.com/2012/08/07/do-any-women-work-at-the-dirty-difficult-and-dangerous-jobs-that-men-do-any-women-at-all/

 

If women want equality in workplace then they all have to do dirty and dangerous jobs which men do and that too in large percentage O/W women what dream jobs in male dominated area they do is just their choice and privilege  .

 

Handful of lucky people in world has spread the myth that people should do what they want , what they don't understand is there are many which are doing so many jobs which are unwanted by many and because of these unwanted jobs they can do their dream jobs 

Edited October 28, 2015 by kdsingh80

[CdnSikhGirl]

Those statistics are not accurate in Canada.  Here in Halifax I know for sure we have female electrical line workers, females on road crews (actually operating the heavy equipment)  In Alberta there are women operating HUGE HUGE dump trucks and backloaders etc at the oilfields.  In fact it's primarily women who do it! We have many women doing construction! Aircraft maintenance? In the airforce there are women doing it, and numerous in civvie side too! In Halifax the ratio of female to male police is not only 12% to 88%.  Its a lot higher... probably close to 40% female. This might hold true for India where women are not exactly encouraged to do these jobs but in Canada its a different story.  And over time more females will enter these jobs.  But even if they didn't.... it should NEVER stop those females who DO want to, from pursuing it!  

Want dirty?  Try doing a casing crawl (under the decking) on a submarine, (we are talking outside the pressure hull but under the part you walk on) carrying a bag of grease, wearing paper coveralls, and greasing by hand all the moving parts. I've done that many times.  Most guys hate it... but it's a job my trade does on submarines.  Do I mind if I get dirty? Do I sound like the typical portrait of a woman you paint who doesn't want to break a nail? LOL.  I have hauled on lines tying up both surface ships and subs, I have painted the ships... I have melted down 3 months worth of garbage (plastic) in this big oven thing we have to turn the plastic garbage into discs, after sorting everything.  In the Caribbean, in the heat... and the smell was beyond what anyone can imagine.  Our crew on surface ship were roughly 35% female.  Everyone had to do it.  The women did not complain, nor did they get out of it.  

All of these jobs are still fulfilling.  I'm not saying being stuck with kids 24/7 is not fulfilling, but there is no lunch break, no afternoon break, no going home after 5pm.  Even after the husband goes home in most cases the wife STILL has to cook, do more cleaning, still deal with the screaming kids.  Do you know what non stop, never having a break from screaming kids does to some people?  Many women have snapped because they can't get away from it.  It's all encompassing, with absolutely no time to have a break or escape it.  Unlike the traditional husband who comes home and expects to be waited on hand and foot.  Try dealing with screaming kids all day, every day... all their demands, having to cook, clean, then pick up messes after a lazy husband, etc switching roles for even one day and you will soon see why women want out.  It's their sanity at stake!  And their hearing!  Stay at home Moms keep Tylenol in business (constant headaches)... and for some... alcohol.  Their lives become purple dinosaurs, and other mind numbing cartoons, nobody to have adult deep conversations with about philosophy, science etc. to keep their mind sharp.  Personally I don't see how stay at home Moms don't all lose it. 

Unless of course, you can afford a servant!  I am about to complete my career in the military, my husband's family have servants to cook and clean the place.  I will be perfectly fine with staying home then LOL.  Of course I will have my own income still in the form of a pension which I can say I WORKED FOR.  Stay at home Moms get labelled gold diggers, and accused of spending HIS money.  I NEVER wanted to be accused of spending someone else's money or that I never worked for what I have. 

And if you want DANGER in a job... look up how dangerous serving on a submarine can be!!!!! Or Navy ship for that matter. 

And if a woman studies hard to be a doctor or engineer, then she deserves it!  The men can easily do the same!  It's not like her studying to be a doctor is forcing the men to become sewer workers like you are making it sound  LOL.  If a man wants to be a doctor, same thing... study hard!  The reason women have been less in the workforce in general, is because they were previously forced into these crappy domestic servitude roles where they had no choice.  I am interested in technology, science, physics.... how on earth would I ever feel fulfilled cooking and scrubbing toilets all day?? I'd go insane! I'd rather work, and pay someone else to do the cooking and cleaning! EVEN if that work was dangerous, or dirty.  At least I would feel like I was contributing to society in a meaningful way.  

 

[kdsingh80]

Those statistics are not accurate in Canada.  Here in Halifax I know for sure we have female electrical line workers, females on road crews (actually operating the heavy equipment)  In Alberta there are women operating HUGE HUGE dump trucks and backloaders etc at the oilfields.  In fact it's primarily women who do it! We have many women doing construction! Aircraft maintenance? In the airforce there are women doing it, and numerous in civvie side too! In Halifax the ratio of female to male police is not only 12% to 88%.  Its a lot higher... probably close to 40% female. This might hold true for India where women are not exactly encouraged to do these jobs but in Canada its a different story.  And over time more females will enter these jobs.  But even if they didn't.... it should NEVER stop those females who DO want to, from pursuing it!  

Want dirty?  Try doing a casing crawl (under the decking) on a submarine, (we are talking outside the pressure hull but under the part you walk on) carrying a bag of grease, wearing paper coveralls, and greasing by hand all the moving parts. I've done that many times.  Most guys hate it... but it's a job my trade does on submarines.  Do I mind if I get dirty? Do I sound like the typical portrait of a woman you paint who doesn't want to break a nail? LOL.  I have hauled on lines tying up both surface ships and subs, I have painted the ships... I have melted down 3 months worth of garbage (plastic) in this big oven thing we have to turn the plastic garbage into discs, after sorting everything.  In the Caribbean, in the heat... and the smell was beyond what anyone can imagine.  Our crew on surface ship were roughly 35% female.  Everyone had to do it.  The women did not complain, nor did they get out of it.  

All of these jobs are still fulfilling.  I'm not saying being stuck with kids 24/7 is not fulfilling, but there is no lunch break, no afternoon break, no going home after 5pm.  Even after the husband goes home in most cases the wife STILL has to cook, do more cleaning, still deal with the screaming kids.  Do you know what non stop, never having a break from screaming kids does to some people?  Many women have snapped because they can't get away from it.  It's all encompassing, with absolutely no time to have a break or escape it.  Unlike the traditional husband who comes home and expects to be waited on hand and foot.  Try dealing with screaming kids all day, every day... all their demands, having to cook, clean, then pick up messes after a lazy husband, etc switching roles for even one day and you will soon see why women want out.  It's their sanity at stake!  And their hearing!  Stay at home Moms keep Tylenol in business (constant headaches)... and for some... alcohol.  Their lives become purple dinosaurs, and other mind numbing cartoons, nobody to have adult deep conversations with about philosophy, science etc. to keep their mind sharp.  Personally I don't see how stay at home Moms don't all lose it. 

Unless of course, you can afford a servant!  I am about to complete my career in the military, my husband's family have servants to cook and clean the place.  I will be perfectly fine with staying home then LOL.  Of course I will have my own income still in the form of a pension which I can say I WORKED FOR.  Stay at home Moms get labelled gold diggers, and accused of spending HIS money.  I NEVER wanted to be accused of spending someone else's money or that I never worked for what I have. 

And if you want DANGER in a job... look up how dangerous serving on a submarine can be!!!!! Or Navy ship for that matter. 

And if a woman studies hard to be a doctor or engineer, then she deserves it!  The men can easily do the same!  It's not like her studying to be a doctor is forcing the men to become sewer workers like you are making it sound  LOL.  If a man wants to be a doctor, same thing... study hard!  The reason women have been less in the workforce in general, is because they were previously forced into these crappy domestic servitude roles where they had no choice.  I am interested in technology, science, physics.... how on earth would I ever feel fulfilled cooking and scrubbing toilets all day?? I'd go insane! I'd rather work, and pay someone else to do the cooking and cleaning! EVEN if that work was dangerous, or dirty.  At least I would feel like I was contributing to society in a meaningful way.  

 

You have not read my post carefullfy , I have already said that at indivisual level this debate is useless.And yes its a a fact that dangerous and dirty jobs are dominated by men , don't just just go by I have seen this so and so women are working so they must be in high percentage

As of January 2014, the percentage of women in the CAF, Regular Force and Primary Reserve combined was at 14.8 per cent, with more than 9400 women in the Regular Force and more than 4800 women in the Primary Reserve.  

The Royal Canadian Air Force comprises the highest percentage of women at 18.7 per cent. Similarly the Royal Canadian Navy has a representation of women of 18.4 per cent and the Canadian Army 12.4 per cent. Women today are joining the CAF with the widest range of options for occupations and career advancement.

States from Canadian army

 Statistics Canada reports annually on a variety of aspects of gender in policing in Police Resources in Canada. The 2011 report includes male and female numbers for approximately 156 local, provincial and national agencies; across ranks and different time periods. In total, the percentage of women officers increased from 0.6% in 1965 (190 of 30,146) to 19.6% in 2011 (13,605 of 69,438) (Statistics Canada, 2011, p. 21). There was considerable variability in the total number of female officers reported at the provincial level for 2011, with the highest proportion at 23.7% in Quebec and the lowest at 12.3% in the Yukon (p. 22). The report also showed growth in the percentage of female officers at two ranks levels from 1986 to 2011. Women made up 0.2% of ‘Senior Officers’ in 1986 and 9.5% in 2011; and 0.5% of ‘Non-commissioned officers’ in 1986 and 15.8% in 2011 (p. 21). Unusually, the Canadian data were also represented graphically showing the long-term trends, with fairly consistent growth at the higher rank clusters and a levelling out at the constable level in the past five years (Fig. 4).

http://oro.open.ac.uk/36665/1/Status of women police an international review.pdf

Only 20 percent Canadian police is women

 Canada's Most Dangerous Jobs

Not all of these pay high wages to offset the risks. Most don’t require an advanced education. And they tend to be dominated by males

 1. Men are much more likely (as in 30 times more likely) to die on the job than women.

http://dailyxy.com/article/canadas-most-deadly-jobs/

So much equality in Canada but its strange that 30 times men die than women doing dangerous jobs

 http://www.theage.com.au/comment/how-to-die-at-work-be-male-20141028-11cti8.html

How to die at work: be male

What it does highlight is equality in the workplace is a two-way street, one of which is not so pretty or navigable. 

While no right-thinking person would argue against women deserving equal pay and opportunities wherever they work, for a variety of structural and cultural reasons they're still under-represented in our dirtiest, most dangerous jobs, which by default often fall to men.

In the discussion about workplace equality, the metaphors of the "glass ceiling" and "sticky floor" are often employed to illustrated the barriers to women progressing to top jobs or leaving the lowliest.

It's worth noting, however, the sticky floor traps many men as well, particularly in industries or jobs which can get you killed.

When I did work experience as a garbage collector, I asked the female head of the "resource recovery" department if she'd ever had a female applicant.

"Nope," she said.

Read more: http://www.theage.com.au/comment/how-to-die-at-work-be-male-20141028-11cti8.html#ixzz3puLAiTkL 
Follow us: @theage on Twitter | theageAustralia on Facebook

This is from Australia . Forget about in percentage they don't even apply jobs as garbage collectors

[CdnSikhGirl]

Those men who applied to be garbage collectors actually CHOSE to do so.

Forgetting who applies for what etc. which doesn't even matter in this debate... what you are suggesting is that:

1.  Since traditionally women have been pushed into domestic only roles, that should be used as a justification to push ALL women into domestic only roles today WITHOUT ANY CHOICE.
2. That men should have full choice to pursue whatever career they want because they are male.

This, negating the fact that MANY women even traditionally felt trapped by domestic servitude and wanted to do much more, had the mental capacity to do much more, but were forced into this role.  Women obviously have the brain power to succeed in higher education... And you are denying the accomplishments of MANY strong women, Sikh women included, who have made strides in medicine, science, technology and even military etc. because you think their place is only at home cooking dinner and cleaning up after their messy husband and kids.  

NEWS FLASH: Men are also capable of domestic work, not just women.  Both can pursue careers and BOTH can clean the damn house.  If both people worked together making dinner and cleaning up afterward, it can actually be bonding, the job is done quicker, both have contributed, and then both can relax a lot earlier in the evning - leaving LOTS of free time to spend with their kids.  ONE person is not saddled with hours of dishes and cleaning up after dinner, while the other gets to sit on their butt in front of the television.  BOTH get to pursue their careers and contribute monitarily... so the home etc are never seen as 'His' making her feel like a perpetual maid / houseguest. It becomes THEIR HOME.  And even if you use the argument that someone should be home during the day with the kids to teach them... well at age 4 most kids are in school all day anyway.  So at the MOST you have 4 years where someone would have to stay home. But then, schedules can be played with so that some days its Mom and others its Dad.  Since majority of families have only 1 or 2 kids anyway, it works out just fine without being over complicated.  There are also other family members... retired Grandparents, Coordinate with the in-laws and schedules can be even more flexible as aunts and uncles can also take turns looking after all the kids.  This way, EVERYONE gets CHOICE.  Everyone gets a chance to pursue their dreams. NOBODY is stuck in a forever thankless boring and menial drudgery of endless housework. If someone CHOSES to be do this, that's fine. It's THEIR CHOICE.  But what you are suggesting is that as a woman I should have no choice.  I should be forced into an apron and chained to the kitchen while he gets to follow his dreams of running an NGO, working in media etc.

Forget about WHAT types of jobs males usually choose... it's STILL THEIR bloody choice!  They could study hard and become an engineer if they wanted. They could work at a McDonald's or pump gas, or be a doctor, a laywer, a paramedic, an insurance sales person etc. It's their OWN CHOICE.  Yes the statistics are are still not where we want them to be.  In Canadian Military we are trying to attract more women to apply to serve.  I did my part... I was one of the first 4 women to qualify to serve on submarines, which was previously ALL men, and not even an option for women.  So I practiced what I preached, qualified the exact same as the males, even though it was not easy.  I am proud of what I have accomplished to pave the way for more women to do the same.  So please don't spout chauvenistic remarks that since traditionally women were more domestic, that I should have been forced into that domestic role, completely undermining the accomplishments I made in life. I think I'd rather die...

Also, NONE of the above has ANY bearing on seva whatsoever.  Religious practice is the ONE place where all humans should be treated equally... simply because our souls are genderless and we are seen equally by our Creator.  So nobody should be told 'you are not allowed to do this because....'  And this has no bearing on what women or men generally prefer etc. And even if generally speaking women don't prefer to pursue being a granthi, it doesnt mean that ALL women should be prevented from doing so, or kirtan etc. and yes even Panj Pyaras.  As for langar, I see some men who hesitate because they think it will make them look feminine if they work in the kicthen.  If they want to, they should do so... nobody should tell them no.  Cooking should not be seen as a male or female thing. Cooking is just cooking.  Its a task like anything else.

None of these things have anything to do with just trying to take things away from males, or hating males etc.  You can't paint everyone with same brush and say you are a woman so your place is here only.  When many women strive for much more, and have the ability to do so.  Why is it that men are never the ones told they can't do something?? And don't bring up childbirth.  Women don't CHOOSE to be in that position and once the child is born, both parents should equally take part in bringing up the child.  A child needs BOTH parents.  Outside of the biological functions, BOTH can equally contribute. Nothing is stopping a man from changing a diaper!!! Not only will he bond more with his child, he will be helping his wife who is likely so tired and stressed out from no sleep etc, that he will be greatly appreciated!

That's all I am going to say.  That image above, is suggesting that women shouls only pursue childbearing... because that's the only things that males are incapable of physically.  Women are not just breeding machines... to think so is a huge injustice.

 

 

Edited October 28, 2015 by Satkirin_Kaur

[dalsingh101]

A lot of western women are dumb. 

 

You can tell by the way they jump on the most negative aspects of males in their new found freedom instead of going in a positive direction.

 

That's why in England you've got a whole splurge of new problems with women (like alcohol related liver disease) that they never suffered from as much previously. 

Sikh women need to develop better/different approaches to their own liberation to the mainstream. 

[CdnSikhGirl]

A lot of western women are dumb.

 

You can tell by the way they jump on the most negative aspects of males in their new found freedom instead of going in a positive direction.

 

That's why in England you've got a whole splurge of new problems with women (like alcohol related liver disease) that they never suffered from as much previously.

Sikh women need to develop better/different approaches to their own liberation to the mainstream.

I don't drink, nor smoke or anything like that.  Most Sikh women don't! 

Let's get something straight here... a man helping raise his children doesnt mean he wants to be a woman. And a woman wanting to pursue a career does not mean she is 'wanting to be like a man' it simply means she wants to pursue a career because she feels a calling for it.  Me wanting to join the military had NOTHING to do with me wanting to be a 'man'  In fact out of uniform, I wear the brightest pink coloured suits... because I still like to be a girl!  The difference is, I don't equate jobs to a specific gender at all. They are just jobs. They require people to fill them.  I choose military career for the humanitarian missions, helping people, the high-tech aspect of my career... I am a HUGE HUGE techie gadget freak, and the opportunity to work with high tech Sonars, and onceanographic equipment appealed to me.  I never once thought, hey this is a man's job so I want to do it just to show I can do what a man does or steal this job from him.  Who decided that men own everything outside the house anyway??  Stop looking at tasks as belonging to one gender or the other. See them for what they are... simply jobs that need doing.  If someone can do the job, their gender should not preclude them from it.  Period.  You always jump to the hard right, and assume that if women work, all society will go to hell in a handbasket.  Again, you are undermining the HUGE contributions that women including Sikh women have done in society! 

Why is it that most of the women in this list, nobody has even heard of (save for the first few)??
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/valarie-kaur/10-sikh-women-you-should-know_b_1353700.html

Why are male Sikh Sants well known, but the female Sants you have to actually search for articles about them? And how many males would actually LISTEN to a female Sant?  Neo has already posted some of them on here.  How many of you would actually listen to and abide by what any of these female Sants teach? How many Singhs shrug them off instead, thinking their place is not to be teaching religious tenets but instead should be in the kicthen cooking dinner??

The ONLY obstacle to Sikh women being treated equally is: SIKH MEN!!!!

 

 

 

[dalsingh101]

You talk a lot of ish Satkiran. I don't know where you're at but many Sikh Panjabi males love cooking. We don't have that women and cooking stereotype. Most apnay like to get their toorkha on!

 

Besides you are missing the point: western feminism/liberation has led to an increase in certain medical conditions that didn't exist before - not to mention the victim mentality it transposes on females - which you perfectly exemplify. 

Sikh Panjabi females are often infinitely more outspoken and free spirited than most females. You're generalising western norms on nonwhites. 

[SAadmin]

Why are male Sikh Sants well known, but the female Sants you have to actually search for articles about them? And how many males would actually LISTEN to a female Sant?  Neo has already posted some of them on here.  How many of you would actually listen to and abide by what any of these female Sants teach? How many Singhs shrug them off instead, thinking their place is not to be teaching religious tenets but instead should be in the kicthen cooking dinner??

Actually lot of people and yes sikh male including are listening to female sant because they NO longer would identify with body, gender, identity, insecurity, inferority complex issues, all kind of crazy conceptual/ideas/beleif isms out there including western feminism.

 

Here is the video of sikh female sant talking about soul look how everyone - mostly sikh male (including taksalis ) are listening attentively:

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HNn3DgHgZzM

 

 

Edited October 29, 2015 by N30 S!NGH

[Ragmaala]

Another example is Guru Maa, many spiritual seekers follow her advice. Sikhs & Non-Sikhs alike.

[CdnSikhGirl]

Actually lot of people and yes sikh male including are listening to female sant because they longer would identify with body, gender, identity, insecurity, inferority complex issues, all kind of crazy conceptual/ideas/beleif isms out there including western feminism.

Thats what we are ALL supposed to do... and that's fine until..... Singhs start telling those female Sants they are "not allowed" to do this and "not allowed" to do that because they are female.  THAT'S when it matters. That's when you can no longer ignore the issues and pretend they don't exist.  I already do not identify with my gender. I consider myself just as a soul - genderless. But it matters when Singhs start telling me, I can't do seva certain times because I am impure, or telling me I could never do seva as Panj Pyaras because I am female, or telling me that no matter how good I ever become at Kirtan, I could never perform kirtan at Darbar Sahib because I am female, or palki sahib seva there, or etc etc etc - It becomes difficult to just pretend it doesn't exist when Singhs seem to be the ones enforcing these restrictions at every corner!

[SAadmin]

Thats what we are ALL supposed to do... and that's fine until..... Singhs start telling those female Sants they are "not allowed" to do this and "not allowed" to do that because they are female.  THAT'S when it matters. That's when you can no longer ignore the issues and pretend they don't exist.  I already do not identify with my gender. I consider myself just as a soul - genderless. But it matters when Singhs start telling me, I can't do seva certain times because I am impure, or telling me I could never do seva as Panj Pyaras because I am female, or telling me that no matter how good I ever become at Kirtan, I could never perform kirtan at Darbar Sahib because I am female, or palki sahib seva there, or etc etc etc - It becomes difficult to just pretend it doesn't exist when Singhs seem to be the ones enforcing these restrictions at every corner!

Reality is very different in real life as what you seeing is small portion point 0.1 of people have this belief online.

Mind is very powerful thing, what you perceive thats what makes it your reality, it appears you are letting some opnions on internet virtual reality shape your wider reality perception of things. 

Regarding certain seva, indian sikhs both male and female don't see it that way at all as they see from traditional aspect, even akj singhanis in india and akj singhanis abroad have difference of opinions on many things,  as there are culture of differences, mainly overall culture in which they both grew up and raised, they are different.

Edited October 28, 2015 by N30 S!NGH

[kdsingh80]

Those men who applied to be garbage collectors actually CHOSE to do so.

Forgetting who applies for what etc. which doesn't even matter in this debate... what you are suggesting is that:

1.  Since traditionally women have been pushed into domestic only roles, that should be used as a justification to push ALL women into domestic only roles today WITHOUT ANY CHOICE.
2. That men should have full choice to pursue whatever career they want because they are male.

 

They are forced by society to do whatever job is available . A man' get respect in society if he is earning money and when things are not going your way men choose whatever job is available. If he has wife and kids then the pressure to bring bread is on him.Women on the other hand can easily shun dirty dangerous jobs they can wait  until they get their preferred job or if their partner is financially sound they can easily choose to opt out.

 

If a man is not earning finding wife g/f become  very difficult for him , society start considering him burden  usless. Also in countries like India in business families the minute a boy is born his career is decided by father to join family business that is why we see in India several communitties dominating particular  business. If you want to pursue career of your choice just 1 option rebel , deal with with all emotional blackmail of family and in some cases they will also throw you of house and may not even give you share in property business

 

This way, EVERYONE gets CHOICE.  Everyone gets a chance to pursue their dreams. NOBODY is stuck in a forever thankless boring and menial drudgery of endless housework. If someone CHOSES to be do this, that's fine. It's THEIR CHOICE.  But what you are suggesting is that as a woman I should have no choice.  I should be forced into an apron and chained to the kitchen while he gets to follow his dreams of running an NGO, working in media etc.

Forget about WHAT types of jobs males usually choose... it's STILL THEIR bloody choice!  They could study hard and become an engineer if they wanted. They could work at a McDonald's or pump gas, or be a doctor, a laywer, a paramedic, an insurance sales person etc. It's their OWN CHOICE

Satkiran , Satkiran , This world has more than 7 billion people and CHOICE is something that is limited to very few particularly from developed nations or from well to do families.. majority of people don't think in this way. Millions of people want to be sportsperson , singer, dancer or models , what what is the actual demand in these professions very few a so the rest live just  their life

None of these things have anything to do with just trying to take things away from males, or hating males etc.  You can't paint everyone with same brush and say you are a woman so your place is here only.  When many women strive for much more, and have the ability to do so.  Why is it that men are never the ones told they can't do something?? And don't bring up childbirth.  Women don't CHOOSE to be in that position and once the child is born, both parents should equally take part in bringing up the child.  A child needs BOTH parents.  Outside of the biological functions, BOTH can equally contribute. Nothing is stopping a man from changing a diaper!!! Not only will he bond more with his child, he will be helping his wife who is likely so tired and stressed out from no sleep etc, that he will be greatly appreciated!

Good theory a child need both parents but what is happening in west 55% percent of marriages are getting broken divorce , so in other word a child has to live with 1 parent mostly mother. and child custody laws favour women so any father that will get himself emotionally too much attached later may end up suffering separation 

[CdnSikhGirl]

 

They are forced by society to do whatever job is available . A man' get respect in society if he is earning money and when things are not going your way men choose whatever job is available. If he has wife and kids then the pressure to bring bread is on him.Women on the other hand can easily shun dirty dangerous jobs they can wait  until they get their preferred job or if their partner is financially sound they can easily choose to opt out.

 

If a man is not earning finding wife g/f become  very difficult for him , society start considering him burden  usless. Also in countries like India in business families the minute a boy is born his career is decided by father to join family business that is why we see in India several communitties dominating particular  business. If you want to pursue career of your choice just 1 option rebel , deal with with all emotional blackmail of family and in some cases they will also throw you of house and may not even give you share in property business

Satkiran , Satkiran , This world has more than 7 billion people and CHOICE is something that is limited to very few particularly from developed nations or from well to do families.. majority of people don't think in this way. Millions of people want to be sportsperson , singer, dancer or models , what what is the actual demand in these professions very few a so the rest live just  their life

Good theory a child need both parents but what is happening in west 55% percent of marriages are getting broken divorce , so in other word a child has to live with 1 parent mostly mother. and child custody laws favour women so any father that will get himself emotionally too much attached later may end up suffering separation 

Not a good argument in Sikh community since marriage is supposed to be for life... 

[kdsingh80]

Not a good argument in Sikh community since marriage is supposed to be for life... 

This is just theory .Present days , there are cases where two amritdhari's or very religious sikhs happily married but after few years 1 just give up sikhi? Then what to do?And in many cases it is women who suffer as men return to their drinking partying lifestyle

[CdnSikhGirl]

This is just theory .Present days , there are cases where two amritdhari's or very religious sikhs happily married but after few years 1 just give up sikhi? Then what to do?And in many cases it is women who suffer as men return to their drinking partying lifestyle

I believe there are extreme cases where a marriage CAN be ended in Sikhi... I remember reading that marriage is considered to be rest of life together and that divorce is not a concept in Sikhi as marriage is seen as spiritual bond not just physical.  However then it stated in exceptional circumstances, it can be considered, by approaching Panj Pyaras... exceptional circumstances would likely be physical abuse cases etc.  and then allowing the divorced person to re-marry by Anand Karaj.  The premise being that someone who is abusive to their partner, was likely never really spiritually bonded to that person anyway. And this is after ALL attempts at reconciliation have failed and is very very rarely entertained.  But not impossible... not sure the above scenario would qualify. I imagine that other things would be suggested (counselling, etc) to try long before it would be even considered.  

[dalsingh101]

Good theory a child need both parents but what is happening in west 55% percent of marriages are getting broken divorce , so in other word a child has to live with 1 parent mostly mother. and child custody laws favour women so any father that will get himself emotionally too much attached later may end up suffering separation

Good point. Whitey and their constant female victim complex can't imagine that a women can be at fault.

 

I've seen LOADS of cases where decent men have been locked off from their kids by a spiteful women, who then goes on to open their kids to all manner of abuse - whether themselves or by some boyfriend or new husband they've brought in the house. 

[CdnSikhGirl]

Good point. Whitey and their constant female victim complex can't imagine that a women can be at fault.

 

I've seen LOADS of cases where decent men have been locked off from their kids by a spiteful women, who then goes on to open their kids to all manner of abuse - whether themselves or by some boyfriend or new husband they've brought in the house. 

'Whitey' is a deliberately degrading and racist remark... just FYI. 

p.s. I never refer to Punjabis as 'Browny' or other deragatory terms...

 

[dalsingh101]

'Whitey' is a deliberately degrading and racist remark... just FYI. 

 

It's meant to be. admin cut

 

p.s. I never refer to Punjabis as 'Browny' or other deragatory terms...

Knock yourself out. I couldn't care less. Like I haven't heard 'paki' a thousand times. 

Actually I prefer the openly racist type of honky who flies their flag over the majority, devious, sly bunch of tossers, who keep their deeply ingrained cultural supremacist bullshit undercover. 

[kdsingh80]

Good point. Whitey and their constant female victim complex can't imagine that a women can be at fault.

 

I've seen LOADS of cases where decent men have been locked off from their kids by a spiteful women, who then goes on to open their kids to all manner of abuse - whether themselves or by some boyfriend or new husband they've brought in the house. 

Actually it is leftist Feminism that caused that. White racists are also anti feminists