Social media and anti-Dasam Granth movement.

[chatanga1]

I don't wish for this to turn into a debate on Sri Dasme Patshah's Granth, but would like to enquire whether any of the members here have seen the quite vigorous campaign on social media, especially Youtube, and Facebook concerning the Granth?

Every day, new material seems to be coming up and the number of people agreeing with the Singh Sabha Canada propaganda and "liking" it has grown to quite large numbers.

Sri Akal Takht Sahib once decreed that no Sikhs should publicly debate Sri Dasme Patshah's Granth, but because of the continued nindya by Darshan Singh and Singh Sabha Canada and party, Sri Akal Takht Sahib issued a later decree that the nindaks of Sri Dasme Patshah's Granth should be given fitting responses by the Sikhs worldwide.

Maybe it's me, but I think that, that has not happened. I can't see any sustained approach by any group about doing parchar of Sri Dasme Patshah's Granth. And if they have certainly not matching the level of activism by SS Canada. I have seen one program a year on Sri Dasme Patshah's Granth at one or two gurdwaras only.

It seems that we, the Gazelle, are totally oblivious to the lion sneaking up.

[paapiman]

2 hours ago, chatanga1 said:

 

Bro, any idea what happened to Nihang Dharam Singh? He had started explaining the Charitars, but has not completed them.

 

Bhul chuk maaf

[SAadmin]

3 hours ago, paapiman said:

Bro, any idea what happened to Nihang Dharam Singh? He had started explaining the Charitars, but has not completed them.

 

Bhul chuk maaf

That baba ji have some contradictory theological issues in explaining gurbani, it looks like instead of acknowledging that bhagti- devotion-sargun, shabad surat- shabad dhun were valid aspects of Vahiguru or stages in one's spiritual development-he was debunking them like no tom, inadvertently rejecting various aspects of gurbani in sri guru granth sahib ji, such as sargun/shabad surat by using nirgun- gyan aspect of nirankar in akaal ustat.

[Ragmaala]

I just checked this guy out nihang dharam singh.....utter nonsense...was listening to Chandi is var....

made me so angry....

i will worship only and only guru Nanak. He is the only God for me.

[paapiman]

On 1/15/2016 at 4:31 PM, N30 S!NGH said:

That baba ji have some contradictory theological issues in explaining gurbani, it looks like instead of acknowledging that bhagti- devotion-sargun, shabad surat- shabad dhun were valid aspects of Vahiguru or stages in one's spiritual development-he was debunking them like no tom, inadvertently rejecting various aspects of gurbani in sri guru granth sahib ji, such as sargun/shabad surat by using nirgun- gyan aspect of nirankar in akaal ustat.

Bro, he did not do a bad job explaining the Charitars. You should listen to them, if you haven't. Obviously, it would be better if a spiritually higher person than him, explains the Charitars.

 

Bhul chuk maaf

[BhagatSingh]

17 hours ago, Ragmaala said:

I just checked this guy out nihang dharam singh.....utter nonsense...was listening to Chandi is var....

made me so angry....

i will worship only and only guru Nanak. He is the only God for me.

What did he say?

[Ragmaala]

Listen to this , let me know what you think. Basically, he is saying that Sikhs shouldnt do dhyaan of any Guru or any sargun form.

@BhagatSingh

 

 

[BhagatSingh]

@Ragmaala

^ WHOA! that works. That's gona be very useful for tagging people into discussions. ^_^

Regarding the video, 2:47 I see what you guys are saying.

Yea worship of guru was a tradition long before there were even our 10 gurus. Sargun worship of Guru Sahibs was there during the time of 5th Master himself, who says - Aadi Guruay Namah. Who is Aadi Guru? Guru Nanak Dev ji and also Akal Purakh. Tons of examples of this.

@chatanga1

I think SSC is just riding on the current wave of anti-hindu thinking, which is really prevalent.

This anti-Hindu thinking naturally lends itself into many other domains such as anti-Dasam Granth, anti-Ritual, anti-Sikh Itihaas (tilak ceremony of Gurus) and even anti-Bhatt bani, anti-Bhagat Bani, and anti-Bhagti!

And this is not a new thing, been going on for a century at least. But I don't think it was this extreme back then, who knows?

[SAadmin]

 

Quote

^ WHOA! that works. That's gona be very useful for tagging people into discussions. ^_^

Sorry for off topic...didn't realize you can tag people, how did ya do it?

[BhagatSingh]

14 minutes ago, N30 S!NGH said:

 

Sorry for off topic...didn't realize you can tag people, how did ya do it?

@ + Name

@N30 S!NGH

[dalsingh101]

@BhagatSingh

test

 

This is a test. 

[BhagatSingh]

5 hours ago, dalsingh101 said:

@BhagatSingh

test

 

This is a test. 

Worked.

[chatanga1]

On 16/01/2016 at 11:39 PM, BhagatSingh said:

 

@chatanga1

I think SSC is just riding on the current wave of anti-hindu thinking, which is really prevalent.

This anti-Hindu thinking naturally lends itself into many other domains such as anti-Dasam Granth, anti-Ritual, anti-Sikh Itihaas (tilak ceremony of Gurus) and even anti-Bhatt bani, anti-Bhagat Bani, and anti-Bhagti!

And this is not a new thing, been going on for a century at least. But I don't think it was this extreme back then, who knows?

The extremity has always been there, but social media has given it a new outlook. Gossip and lies spread like wildfire over the internet, especially social media. Before the missionaries had this option, their views were very isolated. They didn't have the platform to spread their venom as they do now. Because they now have this option, they have put it to very good use and daily there are new posts on Youtube and FB about Sri Dasme Patshah's Granth. Whereas the traditional Sikh orders have been very slow on the uptake, and are lagging far behind these missionaries.

More and more people are being convinced by their thinking and it is harder and harder to get these people not to abandon the long-serving traditions of the Khalsa Panth. People are falling for their propaganda left, right and center. Their venom is infecting the Panth, on a scale that we have never seen before. Even the raagmala, kes-keski,mool mantar debates have never escalated to such a degree as this issue has.

Not so long ago, we had a "khoji" on this forum, trying to fool us into thinking that the poets were the authors of Sri CharitroPakhyan Granth. It wasn't his own work. I saw the same word for word arguments on some blog (unless it was his own blog alongside some other topics he started here) and when the correct and full interpretation was looked at, it showed that this "khoji" was a deceiver and a liar. Yet another deceitful person from this forum, even after reading the correct and full interpretation (as their knowledge of Panjabi was close to zero) still used this distorted version in order to prove themselves to be correct in a further facebook group post. Now because no-one has countered that, the rest of that group will think that this distorted version is the correct version, and the deceit that is before them will be unfathomed.

There is an immediate calling for us to be more proactive before it's too late, and the deceivers infect too many minds with their poison.

 

[dalsingh101]

Quote

 

@BhagatSingh

 

Yea worship of guru was a tradition long before there were even our 10 gurus. Sargun worship of Guru Sahibs was there during the time of 5th Master himself, who says - Aadi Guruay Namah. Who is Aadi Guru? Guru Nanak Dev ji and also Akal Purakh. Tons of examples of this.

 

How do you know they were't referring to the nirgun Akal Purakh as their aadhi Guru? 

[SAadmin]

1 hour ago, dalsingh101 said:

How do you know they were't referring to the nirgun Akal Purakh as their aadhi Guru? 

Uthanka- Historical meaning of Gurbani tuk in previous teekas/steeks, sakhi can provide some context to this. I meant surely in absolute sense, our 5th Guru not just referred aad guru to unmanifsted- nirgun akaal purkh but it was very much part of their meditative experience itself (if we look sukhmani sahib deeply). However, that does not take away bhagti-devotional aspect of 5th Guru and sikhi, which is quite integral part of Sikhi. Personal(bhagti) devotion form of vahiguru and impersonal vahiguru (being that or dyan of that, devotion to that )  is integral part of sikhi. Whether we look at them as aspect of Vahiguru or actual spiritual development in sikhi will left to one consciousness(surat).

I heard this vak below which describe sikhi beautifully. I am not sure if its from bhai gurdas ji varan or who wrote this. But it sums it quite well:

Gurmukh mukh bhagti, hirde gyan.

[BhagatSingh]

3 hours ago, dalsingh101 said:

How do you know they were't referring to the nirgun Akal Purakh as their aadhi Guru? 

Well here's the full verse -

Gaurhi Sukhmani Mehla 5
Aadi guray namah
Jugaadi guray namah
Satguray namah
Shri Gurdevay Namah (1)

Written by Guru Arjun Dev ji.

Combine this shalok with the previous shalok (which comes right before before Sukhmani)-
Gurdev mata gurdev pita gurdev swami parameshwara

"Shri Gurdevay Namah" that is Guru Arjun Dev ji's own personal guru, Guru Ram Das ji. It's a creatively written manglacharan, bowing down to Akal Purakh as the 4 gurus that came before Guru Arjun Dev ji. 

This is a really old tradition of worshipping your personal human guru as guru dev, as parmeshwar. You can see this in other Hindu traditions as well. There is a lineage of Vaishnavs that started parallel to Guru Nanak Dev ji but in Bengal, whose guru was named Vishvambar and later came to be known as Chaitanya Mahaprabhu (the Supreme God). He taught the same bhagti principles.

Btw you can also see this in Abrahamic faiths like Christianity, where they overtly say - the father, the son (Jesus), the holy spirit, who are all one the same. Some people say Jesus travelled to India and was influenced by Indians.

Ps it doesn't tag me, when you put the tags in quotes. Tags have to be outside quotes for the system to send a notification.

[paapiman]

5 hours ago, chatanga1 said:

There is an immediate calling for us to be more proactive before it's too late, and the deceivers infect too many minds with their poison.

Paaji, what do you suggest we should do? Any recommendations?

 

Bhul chuk maaf

[chatanga1]

Admins, can we start a new topic or merge the posts not concerning this topic with existing topics and keep this concerning the topic title?

[chatanga1]

27 minutes ago, paapiman said:

Paaji, what do you suggest we should do? Any recommendations?

 

et da jwab pathar devo.

[BhagatSingh]

You can't change people's mind. There's not much you can do about what people believe.

You can only reach people who haven't made up their mind yet.

 

[Ragmaala]

I think what it really boils down to is shardha or  faith.

If a Sikh is full of faith , love & devotion then usually have shardha for Dasam Granth Ji or atleast are open to learning more.

Those who are devoid of devotion inside, are spiritually dry inside will be attracted towards certain topics like anti-dasam granth ji, no faith in naam simran or afterlife, kala-afghana/missionary type.  The reality is that these kinds of spiritually dry people are insecure, are fearful inside, thus they want to convert more people like them, create a mob mentality to make themselves better. But they do not realize that they can pretend all to not believe in anything, but when the jamdoot comes with a big danda & beat their butts, then they will realize.    These kabootars can close their eyes & pretend that  billi is not there, but the Jamdoot Billi is always watching them.

whereas Singhs who have full faith in Dasam Ji will DURGA PATH BANAYA SABHE PAUDIAN FER NA JOONI AAYA JIN EH GAAYA!!!

Only thing that can be done is spread Parchar to innocent sangat,  those who have love will automatically believe in Dasam Granth.

[amardeep]

Its not a question of faith, - its a question of history. Did the Guru write it or not. Its not about believing whether the Guru wrote it or not.

[Guest KP Singh]

1 hour ago, amardeep said:

Its not a question of faith, - its a question of history. Did the Guru write it or not. Its not about believing whether the Guru wrote it or not.

That's a good point Amardeep. 

A question I have is, Why did Guru Govind Singh write his own Granth, when all the other Gurus had there writing in SGGS ?

[chatanga1]

17 hours ago, BhagatSingh said:

You can't change people's mind. There's not much you can do about what people believe.

You can only reach people who haven't made up their mind yet.

 

I disagree. We need to to be active in countering their lies, whether they beleive or not. Otherwise neutral people will see only one side and believe that is the truth. Look at the lies certain people have posted here about Dasme Patshah's Granth, over the years, they have all been countered and anyone reading the forum would know that they are lies. But if there was no response from us...

Of course you can't change some people. Look at the deceitful one on this forum, and how she is still, in the face of great evidence still shared lies posted on this forum on facebook.

 

We need to be proactive and reach people before as well, but as I said we are doing a really ineffective job at the moment compared to the missionaries.

 

 

[Ragmaala]

56 minutes ago, chatanga1 said:

 

I disagree. We need to to be active in countering their lies, whether they beleive or not. Otherwise neutral people will see only one side and believe that is the truth. Look at the lies certain people have posted here about Dasme Patshah's Granth, over the years, they have all been countered and anyone reading the forum would know that they are lies. But if there was no response from us...

Of course you can't change some people. Look at the deceitful one on this forum, and how she is still, in the face of great evidence still shared lies posted on this forum on facebook.

 

We need to be proactive and reach people before as well, but as I said we are doing a really ineffective job at the moment compared to the missionaries.

 

 

I agree, we all should be pro-active in our own circles. Atleast they will know that there are people who wont let their bs go on.

If it means fighting, its fighting for a just cause, a reason to maintain Respect. I have not met such people in real life, & I do not want to because I am not sure how I would react.