Discussion on Bullying, Nindya & How to handle Nindya like Bhagat Kabir Ji.

[Guest Guest]

And we all know who paapiman was referring to with that post about doing seva during menstruation and it being utterly disgusting. He was most definitely referring to Satkirin because she has posted proof in gurbani showing Guru Nanak spoke against such thinking only recently. @BhagatSingh she has a point, why have you never spoke up against the huge nindiya done TO satkirin on a nearly daily basis? Things said that were way more horrible and derogatory than she has ever said about anyone? It seems you are ok with nindiya as long as she is the one on the receiving end. At least Koi spoke up about it recently and acted like a Singh. 

[CdnSikhGirl]

Actually I thought he was just referring to women in general. I have posted before that due to my career and not having to worry about cycles, I have been using hormonal medication that stops cycles all together and I have been on them most of my adult life. So I have never directly had to deal with doing seva while on a cycle because I dont have them LOL.  However I don't see any problem with it either. Especially with modern hygiene products.  Women don't bleed so much that they are covered head to toe like that idol was! And I posted internal protection that keeps everything completely inside such that nobody would ever know she was menstruating - even if she was naked, they wouldn't know because its completely internal. So there is no issue in modern times about menstruation and seva.

[paapiman]

15 hours ago, GurpreetKaur said:

There is no block feature, it's only ignore one and it's still not working, I can still see ignored people and they can see my account. 

Sorry for using the wrong term. Daas has ignored some people and it is working fine for me. If you ignore someone, that person can still see your posts, but you won't be able to see theirs.

 

Bhul chuk maaf

[paapiman]

14 hours ago, Guest said:

Bhagat Singh Ji to be fair paapiman did in fact say that women are not fully human, have lower status than men, and that menstruation makes them disgusting (did you see the comment he made on the photo of that statue covered in blood that someone posted recently?) He also said he never plans to get married. 

Women are part of Manukhi jaati, but they are not Manukhs.

Similarly, women are part of mankind, but are not men.

Gurparsaad, Daas will make a separate topic on this issue.

 

Bhul chuk maaf

[paapiman]

10 hours ago, Guest Guest said:

And we all know who paapiman was referring to with that post about doing seva during menstruation and it being utterly disgusting. He was most definitely referring to Satkirin 

Guest jee - There are many other people, other than Wanda, who believe in the utter disgusting idea that women can do Seva (of Maharaaj's saroop), while they are bleeding. She is not the first one to come up with this stupidity.

Anyways, please stay on topic.

 

Bhul chuk maaf

[Guest]

@paapiman Veerji your thinking is skewed. Actually it's only utterly disgusting to someone who is thinking in worldly ways. Blood is life force. There is nothing disgusting about it except in the minds of those who think so. Maybe at one time it was better to avoid seva because of lack of hygiene products and then too just to avoid embarrassment, but today there is no reason to place limitation on them as you would never even know if they are using hygiene products. 

Disgusting, impurity, dirtiness all reside in the mind only. It's your mind you must change.  Women are not your enemy and they are not lower than you.  Your hatred seems deep towards them though. Your every post has something which is aimed at emphasis on them not being men (insinuating they are lesser) or pointing to some negative thing about them or how disgusting you think they are. Why is this? Where does this huge negative feeling toward your sisters come from?

Maybe you should start to learn Gurbani anyway. Close Dasam Granth and charitars for awhile and focus on Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji: 

 

ਜਿਉ ਜੋਰੂ ਸਿਰਨਾਵਣੀ ਆਵੈ ਵਾਰੋ ਵਾਰ ॥

Ji▫o jorū sirnāvaṇī āvai vāro vār.

As a woman has her periods, month after month,

ਜੂਠੇ ਜੂਠਾ ਮੁਖਿ ਵਸੈ ਨਿਤ ਨਿਤ ਹੋਇ ਖੁਆਰੁ ॥

Jūṯẖe jūṯẖā mukẖ vasai niṯ niṯ ho▫e kẖu▫ār.

so does falsehood dwell in the mouth of the false; they suffer forever, again and again.

ਸੂਚੇ ਏਹਿ ਨ ਆਖੀਅਹਿ ਬਹਨਿ ਜਿ ਪਿੰਡਾ ਧੋਇ ॥

Sūcẖe ehi na ākẖī▫ahi bahan jė pindā ḏẖo▫e.

They are not called pure, who sit down after merely washing their bodies.

ਸੂਚੇ ਸੇਈ ਨਾਨਕਾ ਜਿਨ ਮਨਿ ਵਸਿਆ ਸੋਇ ॥੨॥

Sūcẖe se▫ī nānkā jin man vasi▫ā so▫e. ||2||

Only they are pure, O Nanak, within whose minds the Lord abides. ||2||

 

I will do Ardas for you that your eyes will be opened and you release this negativity toward females. 

[Guest]

Think of it this way.  There is no other but Waheguru. Everything which happens happens inside Waheguru. And in turn Waheguru is within everything and everyone. You can't go to any place and be nearer to God than any other place. Guri Nanak Dev Ji showed us this when he went to Moslem holy place and slept with feet pointed to kabba. God is everywhere and nowhere any more than any other place. We don't have to go to far away places to find God as the divine is inside us. 

Now we are also told in Gurbani that Guru IS God. So do you really think it matters if a bibi is 10 feet away sitting in Sangat or sitting on the tabiya? Or even at home? God is always with her as God is inside her always. In fact God is all there really is. 

So if periods are disgusting then how could God reside in all women all the time? You can't get any closer than that to the divine!

The utter disgustingness is your own mind only. 

Here is the proof : a male must ishnan after a night fall not because of any physical dirtiness but because semen spilling is due to kaam. It means he is giving in to lust. Same with sexual intercourse. In other words it's in the mans mind. The ishnan is just a means of allowing him to focus on cleaning his mind before doing seva. Periods however are not related to kaam. 

What I find utterly disgusting is the idea that a male can masturbate spill semen then just wash his body like nothing happened and only short while later do seva like it never happened?? But a bibi is being told she can't do seva when her mind is not on lust at all just because she is experiencing a biological function given to her by God to create life. 

Now I am not talking about cleanliness as hygiene. Everyone doing this seva should have clean hands etc. And it's no different for women. But there is nothing wrong with women doing seva while on periods as long as they wear protection. And that's only to prevent embarrassment. There is nothing impure about menstruation. 

 

[paapiman]

18 hours ago, chatanga1 said:

There is NO fence. There was never a fence for the last 200 years and there isn't one now. But some Guru nindaks have built a fence on the their own lack of intelligence and insecurity. And if others climb on this fence they are Guru nindaks as well. If they spread vile untruths on their fb page they are the vilest of nindaks.

You are right Paaji. There is no fence. You are either a person, who believes in all Gurbani, or a heretic/manmukh, who picks and chooses Gurbanis, using their Manmat.

It is like picking and choosing gurus. For example, if someone says - I like the first five gurus, but the next five were not at that level. How weird (or non-Sikh like) does that sound?

 

Bhul chuk maaf

[SAadmin]

This topic will be locked in next 24 hrs, i think this topic has ran its course.

[chatanga1]

18 hours ago, Guest said:

Speak for yourself as there is a growing number of Sikhs who are realizing that certain parts of dasam Granth may not be purely authentic.

 

The nindaks amongst the Sikhs are growing, because of their ignorance or prejudices.

 

18 hours ago, Guest said:

 And it's good to question things so we don't become sheep.

 

But when you get the answers and still don't accept them then you are still a Guru nindak.

 

18 hours ago, Guest said:

If you have proof that 100% is authentic then share it lovingly and not call people nindak it won't help anyone. 

 

The proof has been shared 100s of times lovingly. Those who still argue against it are nindaks. Plain and simple.

 

18 hours ago, Guest said:

Also sending people PMs trying to get them to leave the forum is one of the worst cases of bullying ever on here because it was direct harassment. so dont try and act like an angel. And the more you try to say she was lying the more it's making you look like a bully. 

 

Guest you sound like a whiny tool.

[chatanga1]

 

14 hours ago, Guest Guest said:

 @BhagatSingh she has a point, why have you never spoke up against the huge nindiya done TO satkirin on a nearly daily basis? Things said that were way more horrible and derogatory than she has ever said about anyone? It seems you are ok with nindiya as long as she is the one on the receiving end. At least Koi spoke up about it recently and acted like a Singh. 

 

What my darling satkiran has said about Sri Dasme Patshah's Granth is far worse than anything anyone could say to her. She is a Guru nindak, but she has called her Guru false, and stated her own intellect to be superior to her professed Guru. There is no place, no sanctuary for Guru nindaks in this world or the next.

Same goes for nindaks/nindak supporters like yourself.

[Guest]

@chatanga1 get your head out of your arse! She has never said any of the gurus were false! She questioned charitars and rightly so. Look what reading them has done to some of you? Paapiman thinks women are disgusting vile creatures to never be trusted. What is his favourite reading material? The charitars (regardless of who wrote them) are the most dangerous poison in minds of men creating hatred toward women! Questioning authenticity of something which many many other Sikhs also question is hardly something she initiated in her own, and has nothing to do with how someone feels about our Gurus. She wouldn't be remaining Sikh if she thought I'll of the Gurus would she? She would not still be following Sikhi if she thought the Gurus were false. And remember only Guru Granth Sahib Ji is our Guru. DG might be important reading but it is not Guru.  Try removing this hatred you have. I will do Ardas for you too like I am doing for paapiman. You guys obviously need it!! 

 

[kdsingh80]

When you join a religious forum then get ready to be abused. Such is the standard of religious forum.people claim religion makes you calm , humble but online forums tell you different story , I joined and discussed several things on other forum but hardly get abused but here for no reason You are abused

[chatanga1]

1 hour ago, Guest said:

@chatanga1 get your head out of your arse!

 

What shocking rude language. I would politely request that you extract your own head from my darling satkiran's rectal orifice.

 

1 hour ago, Guest said:

@chatanga1She has never said any of the gurus were false!

 

My darling satkiran has questioned the intellect and honour of Guru Gobind Singh. She is portraying her own intellect as superior and therefore she is saying the Gurus are false.

 

1 hour ago, Guest said:

@chatanga1  She questioned charitars and rightly so.

 

Anyone can question but should be able to accept the answers. There is NO dispute that Sri CharitroPakhyan were written by Guru Gobind Singh. She has repeatedly committed the heeya (low despicable act ) of questioning them without basis as well as spreading wrong information about them in a facebook group. She has no right to question them given the level of understanding given to her about them ANYWHERE.

Mt dearest satkiran is a guru nindak. Until she asks for forgiveness from Guru Sahib for doubting his intellect and wisdom, not matter what she does, she will have the black stain of nindak all over her.

2 hours ago, Guest said:

@chatanga1  Look what reading them has done to some of you?

 

Don't worry about some of us. We have accepted Guru Sahib's wisdom over our own manmat. What about you?

[Guest]

20 minutes ago, chatanga1 said:

 

My darling satkiran has questioned the intellect and honour of Guru Gobind Singh. She is portraying her own intellect as superior and therefore she is saying the Gurus are false.

You misrepresented what she actually said then, inferred your own analysis and spread that as if it were true. So in other words you lied! Liar!  

Even better, is that this is exactly what you keep accusing her of!  For misquoting one word you said, asking pretty please instead of telling her to leave the forum. You just did even worse than that by saying she is saying the Gurus are false when she never did! HAHAHA liar! Liar! hahaha Satkirin bhenji if you see this you have him now! Proof right there he LIED about what you said! 

Anyway no she did no such thing. She questioned writing which could have been adulterated.  She is not the only one.  There are many who believe that attributing false writing to our Guru which has been poison to create hatred in men towards women, not only undermines the message of equality our Gurus taught but also contains stories so explicit that even many Singhs find it hard to believe there is any religious message in there. She did not come to that conclusion by herself. To the many who want some firm proof about the writing before attributing it to our Guru, the ones who are Guru Nindaks are those like you who would gladly purchase swampland in florida passed off as the most fertile farmland. Others are not so willing to just accept anything that surfaces as works from our Guru especially works that can and has caused so much hatred in minds of men towards our sisters, mothers and daughters.  Why is it that the dasam granthies wont even read Guru Granth Sahib Ji because they are so stuck in the charitars? Why no discussion on Gurbani from our only Guru, Guru Granth Sahib Ji? Every other post i see in here lately is charitar this charitar that. Stories about cheating wives, gullible husbands, sexual debauchery. Why is everyone so interested in that instead of the spiritual? Its like you arent even focusing on the other parts of dasam granth but only the sexy tales. What about all the hindu avatars in dasam granth? You think that agrees with Sikhi and with what the Gurus taught us? 

One more time before I sign off, LIAR! 

[BhagatSingh]

21 hours ago, Guest Guest said:

. @BhagatSingh she has a point, why have you never spoke up against the huge nindiya done TO satkirin on a nearly daily basis?

Well normally I don't give a shite about any of them. So why am I talking to her? She came to me in one thread and asked me why others are doing her nindya. So I advised her to not to do nindya herself because that's something she can control.

Had anyone else come to me, I'd advise them not to do nindya either.

A lot of people doing nindya on these forums bring nindya on themselves. They gladly partake in a nindya match with other members.

Look I also have some disagreements with Paapimaan on very fundamental things but we never get into a fight. Neither he does nindya of me, nor I do nindya of him. We disagree and we present the disagreements with whatever knowledge we have, then we are done. We move on.

[Rock]

Also if someone is doing your nindya then he or she is indirectly washing your dirt.  It could be a good thing in disguise. Just saying not promoting Nindya

[BhagatSingh]

21 hours ago, CdnSikhGirl said:

Same as Gurpreet making fun saying that women should be at home caring for men like babies because they cant take care of themselves... we all knew it was in joking sarcastic way, but if you go by your above, she was doing nindiya of men. 

21 hours ago, CdnSikhGirl said:

we all knew it was in joking sarcastic way

Bingo that's the difference.

She was responding to a remark that I made tongue-in-cheek. I was on the receiving end of her comment, and I knew she also meant it tongue-in-cheek.

There is a difference between poking fun and nindya. Just like there difference between friends teasing each other and bullying. Gurpreet and I are friends teasing each other's gender.
 

On the thread where I called you a femininst, I was trying to explain to you that because you are a femininst, any anti-male joke you make, will not be seen as a joke. It will be seen as distasteful. Now there I had to point that out to you because you were accusing everyone of sexism for not taking your joke as a joke.

Do you see the difference?

When Gurpreet says what she says, she does not mean it. When you say something similar, that can't be perceived the same way.

Similar to if a Brahmin/Scholar calls a Shudra/Labourer stupid. The Brahmin might be joking. And he might say "I am just joking". But it won't be perceived that way. It will be very distasteful.
If a Shudra calls another Shudra stupid, and says it's just a joke. Then it's not distasteful.

 

Repetition is also a factor. Bringing previous bitterness to other threads is nindya.

Like if I call someone blind in one thread, and the blind person responds back. And then I respond, and then he does, back and forth. Then that's a conversation. I made a mistake but that conversation was the end of that.

BUT if I start repeating that he is blind everywhere. If I start going to other threads, and I start saying "this guy is blind". Then that is going into nindya, bullying territory. It's no longer a mistake, it's deliberate bullying.

Unless he finds it funny and we are friends, it is bullying.

[Crystal]

On 24/03/2016 at 6:04 PM, CdnSikhGirl said:

That depends on which side of the fence you stand. From the point of those who think parts of DG were adulterated, it's heretical to think that someone could pass off false writings as the works of Guru Gobind Singh Ji. Anyway not to start that discussion in here.  But I wish we could have these discussions without people resorting to calling others words like nindak or heretic just because they believe differently (regardless of which side of the argument you lie on).  

I don't understand...how you can think that when MAHAN mahapurakhs have done namaskar to every single word in Dasam granth. What serious research have you done to come to that conclusion other than hear say and what you read on unreliable sources via WWW. Seriously, get over your own ego. 

Crystal

[Rock]

I think when women argue they have this baggage of arguments in their mind which could be centuries old but they throw it at you to drown you with information with noise so that you cannot tune into the signal and lose . A wise man once said let women rant all they want but once they are done say what you have to say in one sentence and move on.

[BhagatSingh]

8 minutes ago, Rock said:

Also if someone is doing your nindya then he or she is indirectly washing your dirt.  It could be a good thing in disguise. Just saying not promoting Nindya

Only if you maintain a pure heart during and after they slander you, meaning you do not slander them back even in your thoughts. If you maintain that type of purity of your thought, then it spiritually elevates your mental state. You will feel stronger as if you have absorbed their energy.

A good metaphor for this is the Vanar King Vali from the story of Ramayan. He had the boon to absorb half of his opponent's power. Whoever fought him, could not defeat him because he could simply absorb their strength. How can that be?

What a slanderer is doing is that they are giving you their power when they think ill of you or say terrible things to you. When you slander them back, you reject their gift of power, thus nullifying the effect of the boon. However if you accept their gift, you can absorb the slanderer's power and add it to yourself.

This was Vali's secret.

This is also a phenomenon they know about in martial arts.

 

Below Bhagat Kabir ji describes this in his own way -

ਗਉੜੀ ॥
गउड़ी ॥
Ga▫oṛī.
Gauree:

ਨਿੰਦਉ ਨਿੰਦਉ ਮੋ ਕਉ ਲੋਗੁ ਨਿੰਦਉ ॥
निंदउ निंदउ मो कउ लोगु निंदउ ॥
Ninḏa▫o ninḏa▫o mo ka▫o log ninḏa▫o.
Slander me, slander me - go ahead, people, and slander me.

ਨਿੰਦਾ ਜਨ ਕਉ ਖਰੀ ਪਿਆਰੀ ॥
निंदा जन कउ खरी पिआरी ॥
Ninḏā jan ka▫o kẖarī pi▫ārī.
Slander is pleasing to the Lord's humble servant.

ਨਿੰਦਾ ਬਾਪੁ ਨਿੰਦਾ ਮਹਤਾਰੀ ॥੧॥ ਰਹਾਉ ॥
निंदा बापु निंदा महतारी ॥१॥ रहाउ ॥
Ninḏā bāp ninḏā mėhṯārī. ||1|| rahā▫o.
Slander is my father, slander is my mother. ||1||Pause||

ਨਿੰਦਾ ਹੋਇ ਤ ਬੈਕੁੰਠਿ ਜਾਈਐ ॥
निंदा होइ त बैकुंठि जाईऐ ॥
Ninḏā ho▫e ṯa baikunṯẖ jā▫ī▫ai.
If I am slandered, I go to heaven;

ਨਾਮੁ ਪਦਾਰਥੁ ਮਨਹਿ ਬਸਾਈਐ ॥
नामु पदारथु मनहि बसाईऐ ॥
Nām paḏārath manėh basā▫ī▫ai.
the wealth of the Naam, the Name of the Lord, abides within my mind.

ਰਿਦੈ ਸੁਧ ਜਉ ਨਿੰਦਾ ਹੋਇ ॥
रिदै सुध जउ निंदा होइ ॥
Riḏai suḏẖ ja▫o ninḏā ho▫e.
If my heart is pure, and I am slandered,

ਹਮਰੇ ਕਪਰੇ ਨਿੰਦਕੁ ਧੋਇ ॥੧॥
हमरे कपरे निंदकु धोइ ॥१॥
Hamre kapre ninḏak ḏẖo▫e. ||1||
then the slanderer washes my clothes. ||1||

ਨਿੰਦਾ ਕਰੈ ਸੁ ਹਮਰਾ ਮੀਤੁ ॥
निंदा करै सु हमरा मीतु ॥
Ninḏā karai so hamrā mīṯ.
One who slanders me is my friend;

ਨਿੰਦਕ ਮਾਹਿ ਹਮਾਰਾ ਚੀਤੁ ॥
निंदक माहि हमारा चीतु ॥
Ninḏak māhi hamārā cẖīṯ.
the slanderer is in my thoughts.

ਨਿੰਦਕੁ ਸੋ ਜੋ ਨਿੰਦਾ ਹੋਰੈ ॥
निंदकु सो जो निंदा होरै ॥
Ninḏak so jo ninḏā horai.
The slanderer is the one who prevents me from being slandered.

ਹਮਰਾ ਜੀਵਨੁ ਨਿੰਦਕੁ ਲੋਰੈ ॥੨॥
हमरा जीवनु निंदकु लोरै ॥२॥
Hamrā jīvan ninḏak lorai. ||2||
The slanderer wishes me long life. ||2||

ਨਿੰਦਾ ਹਮਰੀ ਪ੍ਰੇਮ ਪਿਆਰੁ ॥
निंदा हमरी प्रेम पिआरु ॥
Ninḏā hamrī parem pi▫ār.
I have love and affection for the slanderer.

ਨਿੰਦਾ ਹਮਰਾ ਕਰੈ ਉਧਾਰੁ ॥
निंदा हमरा करै उधारु ॥
Ninḏā hamrā karai uḏẖār.
Slander is my salvation.

ਜਨ ਕਬੀਰ ਕਉ ਨਿੰਦਾ ਸਾਰੁ ॥
जन कबीर कउ निंदा सारु ॥
Jan Kabīr ka▫o ninḏā sār.
Slander is the best thing for servant Kabeer.

ਨਿੰਦਕੁ ਡੂਬਾ ਹਮ ਉਤਰੇ ਪਾਰਿ ॥੩॥੨੦॥੭੧॥
निंदकु डूबा हम उतरे पारि ॥३॥२०॥७१॥
Ninḏak dūbā ham uṯre pār. ||3||20||71||
The slanderer is drowned, while I am carried across. ||3||20||71||
 

[Rock]

13 minutes ago, BhagatSingh said:

Bingo that's the difference.

She was responding to a remark that I made tongue-in-cheek. I was on the receiving end of her comment, and I knew she also meant it tongue-in-cheek.

There is a difference between poking fun and nindya. Just like there difference between friends teasing each other and bullying. Gurpreet and I are friends teasing the opposite gender.
 

On the thread where I called you a femininst, I was trying to explain to you that because you are a femininst, any anti-male joke you make, will not be seen as a joke. It will be seen as distasteful. Now there I had to point that out to you because you were accusing everyone of sexism for not taking your joke as a joke.

Do you see the difference?

When Gurpreet says what she says, she does not mean it. When you say something similar, that can't be perceived the same way.

Similar to if a Brahmin/Scholar calls a Shudra/Labourer stupid. The Brahmin might be joking. And he might say "I am just joking". But it won't be perceived that way. It will be very distasteful.
If a Shudra calls another Shudra stupid, and says it's just a joke. Then it's not distasteful.

 

Repetition is also a factor. Bringing previous bitterness to other threads is nindya.

Like if I call someone blind in one thread, and the blind person responds back. And then I respond, and then he does, back and forth. Then that's a conversation. I made a mistake but that conversation was the end of that.

BUT if I start repeating that he is blind everywhere. If I start going to other threads, and I start saying "this guy is blind". Then that is going into nindya, bullying territory. It's no longer a mistake, it's deliberate bullying.

Unless he finds it funny and we are friends, it is bullying.

Your articulation is very good. But serious question do you get tired when typing or articulating a perfect argument because I do for sure & I don't bother lol.

[Rock]

2 minutes ago, BhagatSingh said:

Only if you maintain a pure heart during and after they slander you, meaning you do not slander them back even in your thoughts. If you maintain that type of purity of your thought, then it spiritually elevates your mental state. You will feel stronger as if you have absorbed their energy.

So this is the key to your success eh. Now I know your secrets.

[Rock]

3 minutes ago, BhagatSingh said:

What a slanderer is doing is that they are giving you their power when they think ill of you or say terrible things to you. When you slander them back, you reject their gift of power, thus nullifying the effect of the boon. However if you accept their gift, you can absorb the slanderer's power and add it to yourself.

So if someone is thinking ill of me even if he is far away he is automatically giving me power. All I have to do is not think ill of anyone hmm  sounds like a good deal. 

But I don't have many enemies yet...time to make some  /jk

[Rock]

7 minutes ago, BhagatSingh said:

ਰਿਦੈ ਸੁਧ ਜਉ ਨਿੰਦਾ ਹੋਇ ॥
रिदै सुध जउ निंदा होइ ॥
Riḏai suḏẖ ja▫o ninḏā ho▫e.
If my heart is pure, and I am slandered,