American newsman who got head cut off (video is out)

[HeyDudesWassup]

I haven't seen the video nor do I want to but I hear it is extremely graphic. Hearing and thinking about this video makes me very very sick.

Look at all the heads that have been willingly cut off for our religon, how many sikhs sawed alive, had their children cut up into little pieces before their eyes. Just because these events took place a couple hundred years ago and were not recorded with a video camera doesn't mean they should have any less of an impact on us.

Waheguru Waheguru Waheguru Waheguru Waheguru Waheguru Waheguru Waheguru

[HeyDudesWassup]

http://edition.cnn.com/2004/WORLD/meast/05...berg/index.html

[Dynamic_Banda]

just watched the footage.. any one intresting in finding out where its from pm me so not to mislead anyone into downloading it and seeing something they may not wish to see..

Its disgraceful.. thats all i have to say..

[truth_seeker]

Have seen the Pearl video, its absolutly horrid. They made him talk about himself and his family too. Then kill him and hold the head up too. I wished I had not looked, it stays with me.

[Guest]

Lot of people think this killin of this innocent man was an reaction of iraqi prisoners got abused by americans.....seriously this war in iraq have caused more pain and greif both sides. Because both sides innocent people are gettin killed and tortured to death and main cause of these wars- president bush and his team just relaxing in their chairs...I dont get it... they have captured sadam hussein.. they should leave iraq now... they promised reconstruction but instead its opposite (more killings) and more hatred building up both sides.

Defination of War- Devestation.

[Guest]

I won't call those soldiers the ones were involved in abusing Iraqi prisoners an American. They were hypocrite doing it on their own. Also, there was ineffective leadership which caused abuse of Iraqi Prisoners.

I think Bush Administration has failed to show the consistency in their plans.

1. There were mass destructions weapons and unfortunately U.S Army still couldn't find them.

2. Bush Administration was going to bring democracy in Iraq and on the other hand humiliation of Iraqi prisoners by U.S soldiers, which goes against Bush administration’s own plan.

------------------ God Bless America & World ---------------------

[commander]

Looking at the reactions of people in response to the video, it would seem to me that most of the west doesn't have what it takes to win this long and drawn-out war on "terror".

We Sikhs know full well the kinds of things these guys are capable of; the West is just starting to get a taste now.

[Beast]

Admin, if being an American is all about truth, honour and justice, then George Bush is in no way, shape of form an American.

And those Iraqis are delusional maniacs who will hopefully one day get their rightful punishemnt.

Did anyone read this week's article by Tony Parsons in The Mirror newspaper comparing Blair and Bush to Slobodan Milosovic. Very interesting.

[Guest]

Beast tell us more about that article...

[HeyDudesWassup]

Today' s Hukamnama:

JAITSREE, 5th GURU, CHHANT, FIRST HOUSE:

ONE UNIVERSAL CREATOR GOD. BY THE GRACE OF THE TRUE GURU: SHALOK:

I am thirsty for the Blessed Vision of the Lord’s Darshan, day and night; I yearn for Him constantly, night and day. Opening the door, O Nanak, the Guru has led me to meet with the Lord, my Friend. || 1 || CHHANT: Listen, O my intimate friend — I have just one prayer to make. I have been wandering around, searching for that enticing, sweet Beloved. Whoever leads me to my Beloved — I would cut off my head and offer it to him, even if I were granted the Blessed Vision of His Darshan for just an instant. My eyes are drenched with the Love of my Beloved; without Him, I do not have even a moment’s peace. My mind is attached to the Lord, like the fish to the water, and the sparrow-hawk, thirsty for the raindrops. Servant Nanak has found the Perfect Guru; his thirst is totally quenched. || 1 || O intimate friend, my Beloved has all these loving companions; I cannot compare to any of them. O intimate friend, each of them is more beautiful than the others; who could consider me? Each of them is more beautiful than the others; countless are His lovers, constantly enjoying bliss with Him. Beholding them, desire wells up in my mind; when will I obtain the Lord, the treasure of virtue? I dedicate my mind to those who please and attract my Beloved. Says Nanak, hear my prayer, O happy soul-brides; tell me, what does my Husband Lord look like? || 2 || O intimate friend, my Husband Lord does whatever He pleases; He is not dependent on anyone. O intimate friend, you have enjoyed your Beloved; please, tell me about Him. They alone find their Beloved, who eradicate self-conceit; such is the good destiny written on their foreheads. Taking me by the arm, the Lord and Master has made me His own; He has not considered my merits or demerits. She, whom You have adorned with the necklace of virtue, and dyed in the deep crimson color of His Love — everything looks beautiful on her. O servant Nanak, blessed is that happy soul-bride, who dwells with her Husband Lord. || 3 || O intimate friend, I have found that peace which I sought. My sought-after Husband Lord has come home, and now, congratulations are pouring in. Great joy and happiness welled up, when my Husband Lord, of ever-fresh beauty, showed mercy to me. By great good fortune, I have found Him; the Guru has united me with Him, through the Saadh Sangat, the True Congregation of the Holy. My hopes and desires have all been fulfilled; my Beloved Husband Lord has hugged me close in His embrace. Prays Nanak, I have found that peace which I sought, meeting with the Guru. || 4 || 1 ||

Wednesday 29th Vaisaakh (Samvat 536 Nanakshahi) 12 May, 2004 (Page: 703)

[Beast]

http://www.mirror.co.uk/columnists/tonyparsons/

I BELIEVED IN THIS WAR.. I WAS SO WRONG May 10 2004

Tony Parsons

STOP me if I am missing something here, but if former Serb leader Slobodan Milosevic can end up on trial for war crimes committed under his leadership, then why can't Tony Blair?

Former Yugoslav President Milosevic didn't personally murder anyone. He didn't actually rape anyone. And he didn't soil his suit by torturing anyone in a stinking prison cell.

And yet Milosevic stands accused of crimes against humanity. He faces life imprisonment for unspeakable atrocities in Croatia, Bosnia and Kosovo that happened when he was many miles away.

But Milosevic was dragged to The Hague because he was the man at the top, and the indisputable architect of a mountain of misery.

"He (Milosevic) controlled events," the judges at The Hague were told when his trial began, "because he controlled the people who constituted the bodies that did evil."

Which is a perfect definition of Tony Blair's moral responsibility for everything that has been done in this country's name in Iraq.

Just as Milosevic bears ultimate responsibility for the slaughter and torture in the Balkans, so Blair must shoulder ultimate responsibility for the carnage and - even worse - the enduring hatreds that have been stirred up in Iraq.

Britain's involvement could not have happened without Tony Blair. First, it was because Saddam had weapons of mass destruction ready to rain down on Croydon.

When that turned out to be tosh, the justification for war was the moral imperative - we were bringing freedom, democracy and enlightenment to a wretched and oppressed people.

And I am sure the Iraqis would thank us, if only someone would remove the dog collar, the boot and the rifle butt from their throats.

Blair is guilty as sin. He will not stand trial, of course. There will be no ritual humiliation and bringing to book for the Butcher of Baghdad, the way there was for the Butcher of Belgrade.

Blair will not stand trial for the 16,180 Iraqis who have been slaughtered on his watch, or the 1,195 Allied soldiers who have wasted their lives.

The Prime Minister will eventually go, but he will spend the next two decades or so swanning around the lucrative lecture circuit of the United States, smiling his pious, why-hast-thou-chosen-me-oh-Lord? grin, until he slides into the dribbling senility currently being enjoyed by his hero, Lady Thatcher. Unlike Milosevic - who was undoubtedly convinced of the rightness and goodness of his cause - Blair will get off without charge, and without any blood or brain sticking to his halo.

But that doesn't stop him being guilty as sin.

And there are plenty of others who are guilty too - especially those of us who supported the war in Iraq.

It is time to come clean - before they release the pictures of Iraqi women being abused in those rancid cells, before the pictures of children being tortured come out, before a bomb goes off on the London Underground. Time to say all of us who supported this war were wrong.

Hideously, horribly wrong. About as wrong as we could possibly be.

We should have been marching with the peaceniks, no matter how much we secretly despise them, and all their pacifist tendencies - and until the day I die I will believe that many in the peace camp would have rolled over in 1939.

But it doesn't matter why we supported the war - because we truly believed the lies our Prime Minister told us about weapons of mass destruction, because we thought that Saddam deserved to be buried by history, or because we have a sentimental attachment to the armed forces of this country and could not contemplate criticising our soldiers when they were fighting and dying - we were wrong.

Whatever the reason, we were dead wrong.

The pictures of American and British troops in all their sadistic glory will keep on coming now, and they will store up loathing that will last a lifetime.

And one day, possibly one day soon, there will be a bomb in a major British city, and innocent men, women and children will be maimed and killed, and then we will have injustices of our own to nurse, and then we will have our own burning hatreds to cultivate, and our own vengeance to claim.

So it goes - the never-ending enmity of the Middle East taken up residence in this rainy little island.

Most of us are sick of the sight of Tony Blair now, but he is ultimately irrelevant - just another lying, self-serving politician, just one more thing we were wrong about all along.

What matters are the unimaginable forces that Blair has unleashed, and the hatred that will last for a thousand years.

Another week, another cell, another image to haunt our dreams.

Are we really torturing the children now? Are we raping their women, and taking a few happy snaps to gloat about with the boys back home?

Are these really the mad acts of a few rotten eggs?

To this former supporter of the war in Iraq, it looks like the whole damn farm is rotten to the core.

[Sukhi]

i never believed in the war against iraq... and frankly speaking, i don't believe that this supposed war on terrorism is even about conquering terrorists and makin the world a better place.

this apparent war on terrorism started with the 9/11 attacks when Bush decided to take the fight over to Afghanistan. i was shocked at that as it was, and i distinctly remember sayin to my family and friends, "watch him find an excuse to bring the middle east into this, especially Iraq."

and what did i see a couple of months later? the Bush administration has set out on a path to bring Iraq under its control.

there seemed to be something fishy about the entire thing when the US claims of weapons of mass destruction were reported to be unfounded by UN inspectors. what was even fishier was the way the US pushed forward along with Britain to take matters into their own hands. their bullying techniques, thankfully didn't affect Canada too much and we stayed outta their mission to bring down another enemy.

but it just got worse and worse. the Iraqis were crushed under the power struggle between a tyrannical government and a power hungry foreigner.

and what do we get today?! the satisfaction of knowing that the Americans and British politicians lied to us, that the UN inspectors were right, that thousands of ppl had to die for some god-forsaken purposes hidden from public view by the governments of two of the world's leading nations.

what do we really have today but another place filled with terror and suffering...?

human nature really pisses me off sometimes...

[Noor]

And those Iraqis are delusional maniacs who will hopefully one day get their rightful punishemnt.

<Admin-Cut> that kind of thinking really pisses me off because its thinking like that which leads to violent acts like the beheading of that guy. :evil:

You cant group ppl like that, there are many many more innocent Iraqi civilians that are being killed.. but obviously this murder will stand out to everyone because of the way it was carried out and recorded.

Its disgusting and the guys responsible for it should be punished.

Waheguru knows all.. and sooner or later all these ppl killing innocent ppl will get whats coming to them.

sukhi_v - right on.. so true

[Guest]

Beast wrote:

Admin, if being an American is all about truth, honour and justice, then George Bush is in no way, shape of form an American.

Well, you should be aware of this fact that besides "Native Americans" there is no one else who is really an American because all were/are immigrants so they got their cultures mixed up on American Earth. This is how I used to make my manager angry...: lol:

Also, George Bush is just a buisnesman & Politician like Prakash Singh Badal.

[Sherni-E-Punjab]

Well- if you want- to take it that far- ...who inhabited the land before the Natives?? LOL

[Beast]

And those Iraqis are delusional maniacs who will hopefully one day get their rightful punishemnt.

Sorry Noor, I was only talking about those Iraqis that beheaded the American, not the entire population.

[Noor]

Sorry Noor, I was only talking about those Iraqis that beheaded the American, not the entire population.

o its k..I thought u meant all Iraqis.. soz

[Jamuka]

An interesting read.

Tell Me, Where Is the Liberal Anger About Nick Berg?

Posted by Leo Lacayo

Wednesday, May 12, 2004

As most Americans wind up a week of frenzied news about the ''abuse'' perpetrated by 16 soldiers out of 300,000 rotated troops in Iraq, we learn of the horrendous beheading of Nick Berg, an American small businessman helping to build the infrastructure in that country..

Where is the rage, Mr. Kerry" Where is the rage Mr. Kennedy? Do we have a reaction from the Grand Dragon, Klansman Robert Byrd? Will Michael Moore be making a documentary to place the blame on the president? The perpetrators of this horrible crime have stated that it is in retaliation for the alleged abuses perpetrated on Iraqi detainees. This is a clear sign that those who have made much hay about what happened in that compound are to be blamed.

My friends in the community stood around my desk horrified as we watched the news break. The question on our minds was: When will the people of the United States understand that we are at war with evil. This is an evil like no other in our history, a powerful enemy who is bent on doing to all of us, what they did to that 26-year-old hero. Make no mistake about it, if they had each of us there we would suffer the same fate as Nick Berg, and it would be done in ''the name of Allah.''

The Senate Armed Services Committee is sitting around trying to make politics of a situation that most of us consider embarrassing at most. However, the enemy has seen the weakness in our media and our politicians. Seeing this, the barbarians perform acts like this in an attempt to weaken us even further. They want to strike fear in the hearts of Americans believing we will turn tail and run. The only problem is, they have misread the American people. This is something that we are not going to do.

This beheading is just an extension of the assassination by cowards who use bombs and sniper bullets to kill our servicemen. Maybe now, some will understand that we have an enemy that must be destroyed, not just conquered, and this must be done with haste. Where is the rage--indeed!

Rage lives in the hearts and minds of all real Americans, and I will not entertain any delusions of the nature of the beast we fight: it is plain evil. It will use any means to win, and we must be ready to use any means at our disposal to prevail. Otherwise, the beheadings will just be a small sample of what is to come for all of us.

We must mourn our dead, but we must learn from this terrible act to stop trying to politicize Iraq and to strengthen our resolve to come together to fight the enemy. One would think that the 9-11 experience would have been pivotal in unifying Americans. Sadly, it was not. The politicians have decided to divide us into two Americas for political gain. That is just plain wrong. We must remain one people, and stop allowing the leftist political feeders from trying to blame our president for the acts perpetrated by the terrorists that we are fighting.

As our election looms nearer we must do everything possible to make sure our country is led by a man of integrity, a man who does not flip or flop, a man who will bring the terrorists to justice and protect us as a people and as a country. The President of the United States needs to have the capacity to make the tough decisions and stand tall. The President of the United States must not to be a man who will turn our foreign policy over to others, or find fault with all we do. He must be a man who can bring out the best in us while bringing us together. All of this is true because we live in a time of great peril. We do not have the luxury of engaging in partisan one-upmanship.

Here is more.

Arab Media React Cautiously to Beheading

Wednesday May 12, 2004 9:46 PM

AP Photo LON846

By MAGGIE MICHAEL

Associated Press Writer

CAIRO, Egypt (AP) - Arab news media reacted cautiously Wednesday to the videotaped beheading of an American in Iraq, with some newspapers conspicuously playing it down.

Some commentators condemned the slaying and lamented that it would draw attention away from U.S. soldiers' abuse of Iraqi prisoners. Others said their opinions of the U.S. government had fallen so low that they have difficulty speaking out against the beheading.

``In normal circumstances, I could condemn the slaughtering of the American, but we are living in abnormal circumstances. I cannot condemn it now,'' said Egyptian columnist Nour al-Huda Zaki.

``The country that advocates human rights principles is now violating them and taking us back to the dark ages.''

Zaki, a senior journalist for the Cairo newspaper Al-Arabi, said she expected few Arab newspapers to cover the beheading extensively because reporting on it could be read as condemning it.

Indeed, across the Arab world there were few banner headlines or televised reports about the killing of Nicholas Berg, the 26-year-old American shown beheaded in a videotape posted Tuesday on a militant Web site. The video claimed responsibility in the name of Abu Musab al-Zarqawi, an associate of al-Qaida leader Osama bin Laden.

A notable exception was Kuwait's Al-Siyassah daily, which ran a photo of a masked militant holding up Berg's severed head. Five of Kuwait's seven dailies published front-page reports on the killing.

The biggest pan-Arab television stations - Al-Jazeera and Al-Arabiya - broadcast brief segments of the video Tuesday night and carried longer footage Wednesday. Neither station showed the beheading itself.

``The news story itself is strong enough,'' said Al-Jazeera spokesman Jihad Ballout. ``To show the actual beheading is out of the realm of decency.''

Arab television stations are less reluctant to show bloody images from wars than some stations in the West, but said they drew the line at showing a beheading.

The presenter on Lebanon's private Al Hayat-LBC station, which led its bulletins Wednesday with the video, said: ``We apologize to our viewers for not showing the entire tape because of the ugliness of the scene.''

Kuwait's state television broadcast news of the execution but not the video. In Jordan, state television aired its report along with a still photo from the video.

The beheading got little attention in Wednesday's newspapers in most Arab countries.

Egypt's leading daily, Al-Ahram, ignored the beheading. Two other major pro-government newspapers, Al-Akhbar and Al-Gomhuria, ran news agency reports on inside pages without photographs.

An Al-Ahram editor, Ahmed Reda, said the news came too late for the newspaper to confirm the video's authenticity with the U.S. government. Thursday's edition of the newspaper carried a story on page four but no photograph.

Newspapers in Syria, where the government tightly controls the press, did not report the beheading. Nor did any newspapers in Iraq, although that may have been because the news broke late.

Jordan's mass circulation Al Rai published a report on the execution Wednesday on an inside page without a photograph.

The two English-language newspapers in the United Arab Emirates ran news agency reports without photographs, one on the front page and the other on page 14. Two Arabic-language newspapers in the UAE carried brief items inside without photographs, and a third didn't mention it.

Most Lebanese newspapers reported on the killing and ran a photograph of Berg sitting in front of the militants.

The video was released too late Tuesday evening for Middle East newspaper columnists. But many Arabs said Wednesday the beheading drew attention from the U.S. military's abuse of Iraqi prisoners in Abu Ghraib prison.

``We were winning international sympathy because of what happened at Abu Ghraib, but they come and waste it all,'' Abdullah Sahar, a Kuwait University political scientist, said of the militants who killed Berg.

In the video, the masked militants said they were taking revenge on Berg, of West Chester, Pa., because of the abuses at the Baghdad prison.

Mustafa Bakri, editor of Al-Osboa weekly newspaper in Egypt, said Berg's execution will only harm efforts to expose American offenses against Iraqis.

``Such revenge is rejected,'' Bakri said of the beheading. ``The American administration will make use of such crimes just to cover their real crimes against Iraqis.''

Berg had wanted to help in rebuilding of Iraq

WEST WHITELAND TOWNSHIP (Pennsylvania) - Mr Nicholas Berg wanted to help rebuild Iraq.

Far from having opposed the war, he believed the American presence there was a positive thing, family and friends said. And he saw it as a business opportunity as well.

So defying State Department warnings, Mr Berg, 26, travelled to Iraq late last year in search of work for his small Pennsylvania-based company, which builds and maintains communication towers.

He did not find a job, but instead was taken captive by Islamic terrorists. His decapitated body was discovered by US soldiers on a roadside near Baghdad on Monday.

Mr Berg had been detained by Iraqi police in the northern city of Mosul in March, American officials and his parents said.

While he was in police custody, he was questioned by FBI agents who were trying to determine what he was doing in Iraq and whether he was an American citizen.

At the same time, his parents, frustrated by their inability to find out about their son's whereabouts, filed a lawsuit in federal court in Philadelphia on April 5 asserting that he was being held by the US military in violation of his civil rights.

A day later, he was released. He disappeared soon after that.

Mr Berg's father, Mr Michael Berg, lashed out at the US military and the Bush administration on Tuesday, saying his son might still be alive had he not been detained by US officials in Iraq.

He said if his son had not been detained for so long, he might have been able to leave the country before the violence worsened.

'I think a lot of people are fed up with the lack of civil rights this thing has caused,' he said. 'I don't think this administration is committed to democracy.'

But coalition spokesman Dan Senor said yesterday Mr Berg was never under US custody.

He said that to his knowledge, 'he (Berg) was at no time under the jurisdiction or detention of coalition forces'.

It was unclear why Mr Berg was singled out in what the Islamic terrorists contended was retribution for American soldiers' abuse of Iraqi prisoners, and his family wondered whether the fact that he was Jewish played a role in the killing.

Mr Berg, the youngest of three children, grew up in a brick and vinyl split-level house in this comfortable community.

His father, a retired teacher who opposed the war, told reporters that he did not want his son to travel there. 'He looked at it as bringing democracy to a country that didn't have it,' he said.

Friends and family of Mr Berg said he was a 'free spirit' who wanted to help others - working in Ghana, in one example - and that his going to Iraq fitted with that ideology.

They said he supported the Iraqi war and the Bush administration.

Mr Berg attended Cornell University, Drexel University, the University of Pennsylvania and the University of Oklahoma, where he got involved in rigging electronics equipment while working for the maintenance department, his father said.

He helped set up equipment at the Republican National Convention in Philadelphia in 2000.

While at Cornell, he travelled to Ghana to teach villagers how to make bricks out of minimal material.

Mr Michael Berg said his son saw his trip to Iraq as an adventure in line with his desire to help others.

He said his son returned from Ghana with only the clothes on his back and emaciated because he gave away most of his food.

Ms Charlotte Knighton, who taught Mr Berg in her eighth-grade science class, said he was devastated by the hunger and poverty he saw in Africa.

'Our country will be the poorer for having Nick Berg gone,' she added. -- New York Times, AP

[Hari]

I just want to do a benati, for people not to watch this video of the American journalist being murdered by these demonic animals.

I don't think it's right to watch "from afar" - voyeuristically - the man's undignified death.Please don't do this poor souls be-izzat, by watching his murder.It is a snuff movie if you ask me.Just my opinion.

[Jamuka]

Strange, when doctored pictures of alleged prisoner abuse by British GI's were printed in the Daily Mirror there was loud calls and howls from the left requesting a full inquiry. There was not a single hoot from these lefties that questioned the authencity of these pictures. FYI the chief editor of the Daily Mirror was sacked and the paper has publicly apologised. And now many question the validity of this video despite relieving the decapitated body of Nick Berg and the violent history of these terrorists. Does the name Daniel Pearl ring any bells?

Is there a bias here? Naaaah, lets run along now. I know, I know, Bush and Blair are evil period. Am I right?

[Jamuka]

Moderator note:

Deleted

Please be serious.

[Jamuka]

Ok you want serious? You got it. Check this out. See what an Iraqi has to say about Bergs murder.

I tried downloading the Nicholas Berg video, but it was too large for this unstable dial-up internet account. I guess part of me didn't want to watch it anyway. I remember a similar 500kB video that was sent to my email account about two years ago. I didn't know what it was, so I opened it and almost got sick to my stomach. The camera was focused on a man lying on the ground with a boot on his neck, his face down to the earth. Out of nowhere, a large knife is shown to the camera, then slowly it sinks into his neck just below the jaw line. The hand holding the knife moves it back and forth in a sawing motion while the victim screams in agony until his voice is reduced to a gurgle like sound. Eyes popping out and blood pouring from his neck. It was extremely graphic, although it was in black and white.

Strange coincidence that the Nick Berg video was released almost

simultaneously with the video of Palestinian 'freedom fighters'

displaying the severed head of an Israeli soldier on a table.

Al-Jazeera had the head blurred out, and the Nick Berg video was

casually mentioned near the end of their news bulletin, and that was

that. No extensive discussions with Arab 'intelligentsia' followed, no replaying of the video over and over again for days (as the Abu Ghraib images), no talk shows with enraged, fist shaking, name-calling Arab figures discussing the effect of these videos on the 'image' of the Islamic or Arab world. Just shame and guilty silence. Apparently, pictures of an American female soldier taunting a naked man with underwear on his head is much much more gruesome to Arabs. I guess not everyone is perfect.

So, to distance myself from the shameful hypocritical Arab and Muslim masses. I wish to denounce this barbaric act and the pathetic ideology that fueled it, to disown any person from my part of the world who would justify it, and to offer my sincere condolences and sympathy to the family and countrymen of Nicholas Berg.

And for Muslims, who are definitely going to say 'this isn't the real Islam':

"When you meet the unbelievers, strike off their heads; then when you have made wide slaughter among them, carefully tie up the remaining captives." Surat Mohammed:4

Grow up, and leave the 7th century.

Update:

Some angry readers have interpreted the above last statement as an

attack against fellow Muslims. That was not what I had intended. I

usually do my best to avoid theological debates on Islam for safety

considerations but I'll indulge them just this once. My purpose was to point out that Islam indeed excuses such barbaric acts. This is not the same as saying that all Muslims believe in such acts or commit them, moderate Muslims exist, but Islam is not moderate. Islamic fundamentalists and terrorists have not deviated from Islam, in fact all their practices are derived from the Quran and Hadith.

So yes, Islam is the problem here. Poverty, economic conditions, abuse by so called colonialism, and political frustration are not. Similar conditions elsewhere in the world have not prompted non-Muslims to commit suicide bombings or fly planes into towers. Islam, along with favourable cultural, tribal, and social values existing in the Arab world has prompted that drive. Islam and the Quran alone are not the root cause.

The solution is not however to alienate all Muslims, or to expel them, or annihilate them. It is up to 'moderate' Muslims and their clerics to carefully examine their scriptures and to reform, the same way Jews and Christians did. The Quran is a book, and its tenets were appropriate for a certain era in history. Most of it does not apply today, so it is not 'untouchable'. You either believe in the whole book, together with its violent verses, or you should stop claiming to be a consistent believer. You cannot select verses which appeal to your argument and ignore the rest.

How would you explain these, for instance:

"The just retribution for those who fight Allah and His messenger, and commit horrendous crimes, is to be killed, or crucified, or to have their hands and feet cut off on alternate sides, or to be banished from the land. This is to humiliate them in this life, then they suffer a far worse retribution in the hereafter." Surat Al-Ma'ida:33

"O believers, do not take Jews and Christians as allies, they are

allies of one another. Those among you who ally themselves with these belong with them." Surat Al-Ma'ida:51

I can go on and on, but I would rather not. I have intensively examined the Quran and Sunna, and I might have a few things that would scare some pious believers. Maybe, some other time, when I'm in a safer environment, I would devote a website or a book to the subject.

I got this from an Iraqi weblog. http://healingiraq.blogspot.com/archives/2...438915894443687

Zayed can be contacted at the above stated address.

[Sukhi]

violence is violence. bias is bias. everyone's got an opinion.

do these violent acts and opinions change the fact that ppl are dying and hurting each other? does it change the fact that there the notion of humanity is lacking in these times? does it change the fact that these injustices continue each day?

[Geezaaa]

ye i have seen the video quite graphic indeed, but u know it jus restates the fact that mulims stop at nothing to make their point, it all started with stupidness with the pictures of the prisnors. if they can put planes through buildings they can take off a few heads they done so in the past nuffin is stopin them now. :?

[gurmukh singh]

Gunmen hunted 'infidel' westerners in Saudi say expats

31.05.2004

12.15am - UPDATE

KHOBAR, Saudi Arabia - "Are you Muslim or Christian? We don't want to kill Muslims. Show us where the Americans and Westerners live," Islamic militants told an Arab after launching a shooting spree on Westerners in Saudi Arabia.

The four gunmen, aged 18 to 25 and wearing military vests, grabbed Abu Hashem, an Iraqi with a US passport, in front of his home in the Oasis compound in Khobar but let him go when he told them he was a Muslim.

"Don't be afraid. We won't kill Muslims even if you are an American," he quoted them as saying.

The Oasis compound, where suspected al Qaeda militants held about 50 foreigners hostage, was the last target in a rampage that struck oil firms and residential compounds in the oil city of Khobar where at least 17 people were killed on Saturday.

Saudi commandos rescued most of the hostages on Sunday after storming the building where the militants had seized them.

Some of the hostages, mostly Westerners, were taken to hospital and others to hotels but most were too shaken to speak to journalists. There were reports that the gunmen had killed several hostages, but details were unclear.

Some of the foreign residents interviewed said they wanted to leave the oil-rich Gulf state which has waged a year-long campaign against militants loyal to Osama bin Laden's al Qaeda.

Abu Hashem, the director of a Saudi firm who has been in Khobar for six months, said he wanted to move to Bahrain.

He said the four gunmen had been polite and calm.

"They gave me a lecture on Islam and said they were defending their country and ridding it of infidels," he told Reuters at Qusaibi hotel.

"The gunmen were so polite. I cannot comprehend this politeness they showed me because I am a Muslim and this cruelty to others," said Abu Hashem, who declined to give his first name.

He said that while talking to the gunmen he saw the bloodied body of a Swedish cook who worked in the compound. He had been shot dead.

An American, a Briton, an Egyptian, two Filipinos, an Indian, a Pakistani and nine Saudis, mostly security men, were also killed on Saturday, security sources said.

A purported al Qaeda statement claimed responsibility for the attack. The group has repeatedly vowed to rid the Arabian peninsula of "infidels".

Lebanese Abdulsalam Hakawti, a 38-year-old financial director, was at home with his wife and two-year-old son when he heard someone storm through the door of his villa in the Oasis complex. They ran upstairs with one militant in hot pursuit.

"Asalam Alaykum," Hakawati said he told the militant using the traditional Muslim greeting.

"(The gunman) told me 'Our jihad is not against Muslims but against Americans and Westerners' and asked me to show him which villas had Americans and Westerners."

Hakawati, who escaped last year's deadly suicide bombing on a housing compound in the capital Riyadh, said he told the young bearded gunman, dressed in a T-shirt and navy trousers, that he had only been in Khobar for three days.

There have a string of attacks in Saudi Arabia in the past year, including suicide bombings and shootings.

"These militants have robbed us of any feeling of security," said Abu Yasser, a 42-year-old Jordanian whose Oasis villa became a refuge for several terrified neighbours.

"This is home, I have been living in this country for 40 years and I would not leave. The country has changed but I won't leave, all my family is here," he said.