Numbers and Sikhi

[Morpheous]

What are the importance of the following numbers in Sikhi

1

3

5

10

11

?

[guv]

1 - ik o-ankar

3 - trinity - brahma, vishnu, shiva; 3 worlds; 3 guns (as in virtues/qualities); 3 levels of guru

5- 5 k's; panj pyare; panj chor

10 - living gurus

11 - current guru

? - sorry mate, that's not a number!

[Guest]

Here is more and explanation:

40- Chaali (40) Mukhtaie. Guroo Gobind singh ji's khalsa who scarificed themselves.

72 - 72 Nit Avtars of Siri Guroo Nanak Sahib Nirankar in form of saints

108- Person who has control over 108 veins (who produces desires) in the body/ It also means if you have read 108 puratan(anceint) texts of eastern relegions.

[Morpheous]

what is panch(5) pardhaan ? in Japji Sahib ?

[tableji]

panch in that case means chosen ones

pa(n)ch paravaan pa(n)ch paradhhaan ||

The chosen ones, the self-elect, are accepted and approved.

http://www.sikhitothemax.com/page.asp?ShabadID=16

[Hari]

panch in that case means chosen ones

pa(n)ch paravaan pa(n)ch paradhhaan ||

The chosen ones, the self-elect, are accepted and approved.

http://www.sikhitothemax.com/page.asp?ShabadID=16

Wrong translation.According to Faridkoti Tika by Gyani Badan Singh (and my own limited knowledge), that Pauri means:

Panch parvaan panch pardhaan.

(Panch parvaan = 5 manifestations upon meeting a Mahatma, they are:

1.Sat (truth) 2.Santokh (contentment) 3.Dheeraj (stoic patience) 4.Dharam (sense of righteous duty) 5.Daya (compassion)

Panch pardhaan = the 5 senses 1.hearing 2.seeing 3.touch 4.taste 5.smell)

I knew Panch pardhaan refered to the 5 senses, but wasn't sure about Pach parvaan.Until I came across Faridkot Tika.You can download here:

http://sikhawareness.com/sikhawareness/viewtopic.php?t=4302

A lot of English translations are such rubbish and nonsense.

Five elected ones??What's that all about?Burn Enlgish transltions I say.They're the work of Shaitaan.

[ksingh]

Hi All,

According to 'The Sikh Religion, Its Gurus Sacred Writings and Authors' Vol 1&2 by M A Macauliffe

the Panch Parvaan has a significant meaning:

it conveys the idea of the 'elected/chosen' ones but is refering to the qualities that such a person would possess

Page 202, Ref 3

"...panch refers to... [1]those who walk according to gods will, [2]who know Him to be true, [3]who praise him, [4]who hear His Name and [5]who obey Him.

all of qualities are described earlier in the Japji Sahib and are what a Sikh should strive to do and eventually become

if one can do this then they may call themselves the 'chosen Ones'

note how this meaning transends all religious barriers and division among men, there is no such thing as being automatically 'right' as actions speak louder then words

also page 202 Ref 3

"...where five are assembled, God is in the midst of them..."

ie when gathered they would have great strength and possess God-like quailities.

a portion of this pauri is:

'The elect are acceptable, the elect are distinguished.

The elect obtain honor in God Court

The elect shed lustre on the court of the kings

The attention of the elect is bestowed on the one Guru[ie God]'

ie if one becomes chosen, then this is how they become and how god would see them.

Hope that helps

Kamal

[Hari]

You can't get away from the fact that the "elected ones" translation is utter rubbish.This translation can only come from conjecture about Gurbani, and not from a Gyani.

I do not consider Macauliffe a Gyani on Sikhi.Do you??

[HeyDudesWassup]

hi Hari,

I have Giani Sant Singh Singh Ji Maskin's Gurbani Veechar on Japji Sahib (20 CD set). I will be ripping them and Pheena will put them up for download and also they will be on DC++. Anyways I'm curious to know how close the translation and veechar is too the Farikot Tika.

I agree down with english translations, only confuse us.

[Mugermach Singh]

Panch parvaan panch pardhaan.

(Panch parvaan = 5 manifestations upon meeting a Mahatma, they are:

1.Sat (truth) 2.Santokh (contentment) 3.Dheeraj (stoic patience) 4.Dharam (sense of righteous duty) 5.Daya (compassion)

Panch pardhaan = the 5 senses 1.hearing 2.seeing 3.touch 4.taste 5.smell)

lot of English translations are such rubbish and nonsense.

yep

Until I came across Faridkot Tika.

Faridkot Tika, abs brill.

[tSingh]

5 elements of samkhya; vaayu, akash, dharat, pani, agni often used in symbolism (e.g. aarti thal, mudran vigyan, etc)

very much agreed on english translations..that Sant Singh Khalsa one is shocking!

[guv]

what does it mean - manifestations upon meeting a mahatma? who is a mahatma? are they qualities present in a mahatma or virtues that are imbued within someone when in the presence of a mahatma? or are they qualities that one needs to reach parmatma?

jt, what do samkhya, vaayu & mudran vigyan mean?

[Mugermach Singh]

vaayu, air, just guessing..

[Pheena]

Wrong translation.According to Faridkoti Tika by Gyani Badan Singh (and my own limited knowledge), that Pauri means:

Panch parvaan panch pardhaan.

(Panch parvaan = 5 manifestations upon meeting a Mahatma, they are:

1.Sat (truth) 2.Santokh (contentment) 3.Dheeraj (stoic patience) 4.Dharam (sense of righteous duty) 5.Daya (compassion)

Panch pardhaan = the 5 senses 1.hearing 2.seeing 3.touch 4.taste 5.smell)

I knew Panch pardhaan refered to the 5 senses, but wasn't sure about Pach parvaan.Until I came across Faridkot Tika.You can download here:

http://sikhawareness.com/sikhawareness/viewtopic.php?t=4302

A lot of English translations are such rubbish and nonsense.

Five elected ones??What's that all about?Burn Enlgish transltions I say.They're the work of Shaitaan.

I completly agree with ya...i thought i was the only one who had heard of the different translation of that verse.

[ksingh]

Hey,

Actually this book is lot more clear and closer to the true meaning when it comes to explaining the Guru Granth Sahib. Not only does he call a spade a spade, he tries to capture the meaning behind it and explain it in the context of when it was written, a lot more informative.

Note: I do not believe it to be conjecture as he stayed in India for over 20 years with several Gyanis who helped to interpretate it.

Do i see him as a Gyani? I see Macauliffe as the medium through which Gyanis explained the Guru Granth Sahib in the english language.

Their understanding would be a lot better then anybodies today (no offence intended) on Sikhi as they would be in tune with it, living it and preaching it.

Kamal

[Hari]

Here is a Gyani for you:

:arrow:

FARIDKOTI TEEKA:

"Teekas" (commentaries) on Guru Granth Sahib have been written in one form or other ever since the compilation of Adi Guru Durbar (also known as Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji).

However, the FIRST formal Teeka in line with the Sanatan (traditional) interpretation of Sikh scriptures was written by Sant Giani Badan Singh Nirmala of Dera Sekhwan at the request and encouragement of Maharaja Bikram Singh of Faridkot. This was a direct response to Ernest Trump's translation of Adi Guru Durbar in 1867 that the Sanatan Sikh world found highly offensive as his Victorian interpretations of scripture.

It took Sant Giani Badan Singh Nirmala six and a half years to complete it. It was completed in 1883. This Teeka was reviewed by a committee appointed by Mahant Shamer Singh, the Head Granthi of Patna. The committee included the top Nirmala and Udhasi scholars of their time. After incorporating the comments of this committee, the first edition of this Teeka was published [funded] by the Maharaja Balvir Singh of Faridkot in 1906 which was printed by the Wazir Hind Press (started by Bhai Vir Singh) at Amritsar. The second edition of this Teeka was published by Maharaja Harinder Singh of Faridkot in 1928.

It was formally presented by the Maharaja of Faridkot to the then Jathedar (Commander-in-chief) of the Akali Nihang Singh Khalsa Panth, 96 Crore Akali Nihang Baba Sahib Singh Ji as a gift to the Sanatan Sikh world. The Sanatan world accepted this translation as being the foremost translation of Adi Guru Durbar. The language used in the interpretation is Hindi, the traditional tongue of scholars of scripture although the script used is Gurmukhi.

http://sikhawareness.com/sikhawareness/viewtopic.php?t=4302

The Gyani Badan Singh Tika isn't the be all and end all of understanding Gurbani.But I would trust it more as a guide to understanding Gurbani than Macaulife or who's that other guy?Oh yes, Prof. Sahib Singh...

Download and enjoy.

[ksingh]

Hi,

Thank you for that peice of information, will read upon it and digest.

Would just like re-itterate that a question was asked on the meaning of the panch pardhaan, i responded because i believe that my answer is correct, you believe that yours is right, so you gave yours. nothing wrong with that.

i think i am right as Macauliffe spent over 20 years in India, rewrote and refined the translation of the whole Guru Granth Sahib 7 times before publishing it, spoke to all the great Gyanis of the time from all over india as well as writing extensively on the lives of the Gurus and the Bhagats.

you accept a particular teeka over mine, and i accept a particualar teeka over yours.

i doubt either is going to back away so a stale-mate has occoured.

please have a look at the following link:

http://allaboutsikhs.com/books/mac/index.htm

Macauliffes work on-line

Here is a passage of interest:

'Shalok, Third Mehl:

The Pandits, the religious scholars, read and read, and shout out loud, but they are attached to the love of Maya.

They do not recognize God within themselves-they are so foolish and ignorant!

In the love of duality, they try to teach the world, but they do not understand meditative contemplation.' SGGS

Regards

Kamal

[Hari]

No, you got me wrong.I don't wholeheartedly believe Faridkoti Tika to be the be all and end all of Gurbani understanding.You shouldn't just read one translation or interpretation of Gurbani and think "That's it, I know it all now, I understand Gurbani, because Gyani Badan Singh/Macauliffe is the best ever Tikakaar!".No, it will not do.Ask the Goddess Sophia (aka Sarasvati Devi)

Only Buddhi is key to understanding Guru Dev - Devaan Dev.

There is never a stale mate when it comes to Gurbani Vidiya.

[ksingh]

Hi,

Yes, I believe that too actually. When discussing Gurbani there are several ways to interpretate a passage, but several translations are needed, the individuals one is fine also, before they can really understand the meaning behind it.

Some you may not agree with, not a problem, each person is an individual. How many people have different understanding of the Kesh, Kirpan, Kara etc...? Just because theirs is different does not make it wrong, just different.

What you do not believe to be the correct translation, put to one side and what you do believe to be the truth, carry it forward.

But once a person does, the aim should be to apply it to their life to the best of their ability, which is what the whole aim of Sikhi is. No good going on about it, go out and do it.

This was rampant in the times of the Gurus. When the Brahmins and mullahs would say one thing, they would go out and do another, leading people into hellish existence (eg Purity). So the Gurus wrote against this. It is still rampant today, but the 'sikhs' of the entire world, ie people of any religion who are the true spiritual ones rises above it.

By following the teachings of the Guru Granth Sahib, man and woman can elevate themselves spiritually, morally and ethically in all spheres of their life so they can progress and evolve as a people as well as create a harmonious society.

Anyway, getting back to the topic:

Five is a number that continually appears in the Guru Granth Sahib.

1) Five chosen ones

(Think we have spoken enough about that!)

2) Five passages that man goes through when they aim for enlightenment.

Righteousness, knowledge, happiness, action, and truth.

3) Five sense

Touch, see, smell, taste and look

4) Five elements that make up the body

Earth, fire, wind, water and ether

5) Five passions

Lust, anger, pride, ego and attachment

6) Five prayers

Truthfulness, honest living, charity, good will, praising the Lord

7) Five spiritual virtues

Truthfulness, purity, contentment, compassion, and faith.

Are just a few examples

I feel it is a psychological thing, so that it is easy to remember.

For people who have done Psychology at any level, there is a concept of 7 +/- 2 i.e. most people will remember things in 9, 7 or 5 naturally off the top of their head.

Just natural, i.e. when we write, we will emphasise by writing in 3 (re-read my post) goes with human nature.

Thanks

Kamal