Guru Gobind Singh ji's wife

[Kaur_05]

WJKK WJKF

This may seem like such a silly question but whenever i read up about history about Guru Gobind Singh ji's wife i find different names. Some theorists say Mata Sundri some say Mata Sahib Kaur some say becuase mata Sahib was so beautiful she was re named mata sundri? Some say Guru Gobind SINGH JI had 2 wives??? which i have trouble believing because the Guru would not advise one thing and do another....

Some say Mata Sahib Kaur could not have any children and Guru Gobind Singh ji made her the mother of the Khalsa, makin her mther of so many Singhs and Singhnia.....

Can any 1 help?

[Guest]

You forgot to add (Mata Ajeeto Kaur) as a 3rd wife

[Guest]

This has been discussed before...

http://www.sikhawareness.com/sikhawareness...highlight=wives

[H4RPAL]

The link doesn't work- it says you need special access to view it

[SAadmin]

Yes, it been in our approval section..just reviewing the topic ...topic should be back soon to the public.

[Guest]

That thread is back now to public .. enjoy

[mehargags]

Yep Guru Gobind singh ji had 2 Wife & 3 wife is Known as "Kuwari Dola" the person visited guru ji placed with her daughter & said to baba jee that he wants that he will marry his daughter but guru ji refuses but after big pressure guru ji said she will remain with me as a wife but she will be kuwari alwayz so that's why it is said to be "kuwari dolla" For her.

[Mehtab Singh]

The myth of Guru Gobind Singh je having more than one wife

"Why did Guru Gobind Singh have more than one wife? How many marriages did Guru Gobind Singh have? The wrong impression that the Guru had more than one wife was created by those writers who were ignorant of punjabi culture. Later authors accepted those writings regarding more than one marriage of the Guru and presented other important people usually had more than one wife as a symbol of their being great and superior to the common man. Guru Gobind Singh, being a true king, was justified in their eyes to have more than one wife. This is actually incorrect. In the Punjab, there are two and sometimes three big functions connected with a marriage, i.e., engagement, wedding and Muklawa. Big gatherings and singings are held at all these three functions. In many cases, engagements were held as soon as one had passed the baby stage. Even today, engagements at 8-12 years age are not uncommon in some interior parts of the country. The wedding is performed a couple of years after the engagement. After the wedding, it takes another couple of years for the bride to move in with her in-laws and live there. This is called Muklawa. Dowry and other gifts to the bride are usually given at the time of this ceremony to help her to establish a new home.

A big befitting function and other joyful activities were held at Anandpur, according to the customs, at the time of the engagement of the Guru. The bride, Mata Jeeto Ji, resided in Lahore which was the capital of the Mughal rulers, who were not on good terms with the Gurus. When the time for the marriage ceremony came, it was not considered desirable for the Guru to go to Lahore along with Sikhs in large numbers. Furthermore, it would involve a lot of inconvenience to the Sangat, young and old, who wished to witness the marriage of the Guru. Therefore, as mentioned in the Sikh chronicles, Lahore was 'brought' to Anandpur Sahib for the marriage instead of the Guru going to Lahore. A scenic place, a couple of miles to the north of Anandpur was developed into a nice camp for the marriage. This place was named Guru Ka Lahore. People going to Anandpur visit this place as well. The bride was brought to this place by her parents and the marriage was celebrated with a very huge gathering attending the ceremony.

The two elaborate functions, one at the time of engagement and the other at the time of the marriage of the Guru, gave the outside observers the impression of two marriages. They had the reason to feel like that because a second name was also there, i.e., Mata Sundari Ji. After the marriage, there is a custom in the Punjab to give a new affectionate name to the bride by her in-laws. Mata Jeeto Ji because of her fine features and good looks, was named Sundari (beautiful) by the Guru's mother. The two names and two functions gave a cause to the outsiders to believe that the Guru had two wives. In fact, the Guru had one wife with two names as explained above.

There is one more very important function in the life of the Guru and the Sikhs. It took place in 1699 when the Guru founded the Khalsa Panth. For preparation of Amrit, he took a Khanda and a Bata (bowl) and asked Mata Sahib Kaur to bring Patasas (puffed sugar) for adding to the water in the Bata. Thus, Guru Gobind Singh and Mata Sahib Kaur jointly particpated in preparing Amrit. Alongwith firmness like steel, sweetness is another great character of the Khalsa, gifted respectively by Guru Gobind Singh and Mata Sahib Kaur to them. Whereas Guru Gobind Singh is recognized as the spiritual father of the Khalsa, Mata Sahib Kaur is recognized as the spiritual mother of the Khalsa.

Again, people not conversant with the Amrit ceremony mistakenly assume that Mata Sahib Kaur was the wife of Guru Gobind Singh. As Guru Gobind Singh is the spiritual father but not the physical father of the khalsa, Mata Sahib Kaur is the spiritual mother of the Khalsa but not the physical wife of the Guru Gobind Singh. Because of their ignorance of the Punjabi culture and the Amrit ceremony, some writers mistook these three names of the women in the life of Guru Gobind Singh as the names of three wives. Another reason for this misunderstanding is that the parents of Mata Sahib Kaur had decided to marry her to Guru Gobind Singh. When the proposal was brought for discussion at Anandpur, the Guru said that he could not have another wife because he was already married. The dilemma before the parents of the girl was that, the proposal having become public, no Sikh would be willing to marry her. The Guru agreed for her stay at Anandpur but without accepting her as is wife. The question arose, as every woman desires to have a child, how she could have one without being married. The Guru said, "She will be the mother of a great son who will live forever and be known all over the world." The people understood the hidden meaning of his statement only after the Guru associated Mata Sahib Kaur with preparing Amrit by bringing Patasas. It is, therefore, ignorant to consider Mata Sahib Kaur as the worldly wife of Guru Gobind Singh."

[Guest Javanmard]

I believe in the religion of Love, whatever direction its caravans may take, for Love is my religion and my faith - Ibn 'Arabi

[Niranjana]

The best 'innovation' by modern Sikh "historians" I ever came across was during my University days when a fellow student who recently grown his kesh and begun to read books upon books of SGPC and Khalistani literature pointed to one text which sought to prove that the Gurus were all immaculated concieved!!!

I regret that I forget the name of the text in question, but shall try and find it, for academic purposes of course!

[Hari]

Mahakaal Avatar Satguru Gobind Singh had three wives.What Bhai Sahib Mehtab Singh has posted above is a pseudo-scholarly work.It's just some guy trying to fit the Satguru into modern Western society.

God damn coconut "Sikhs".

[Mehtab Singh]

actually i got that from another forum...u can guess which 1...lol

[Guest]

You need not to say anything Mehtab Singh....we all know which one..dhan dhan..LOL :lol:

[Hari]

actually i got that from another forum...u can guess which 1...lol

Yes, sorry.I didn't mean to say that you wrote it ofcourse.But have heart, the Satguru weren't lecherous.That is probably what comes into those people who can't come to believe that the Satguru had more than one wife.They who think like that are the lecherous one.

They who see dirt where there is no dirt, are the ones who are dirty.

[Singh47]

That was a very good article posted by Mehtab Singh. Ignorance of Punjabi customs can lead to a great many assumptions and misunderstandings.

[Mehtab Singh]

actually, my question on that thread was centered on Guru Hargobind...some ppl got mad as to why r we trying to question or be like the Gurus, although i juz needed more points to silence idiots who pinpoint these things and try to prove Sikhi isn't amazing...but anyways...this is what i said there...and i m gonna paste the same here...

I am sorry to go off topic here, but i have a similar question in mind. From historical records, its stated that 6th patshah, Guru Hargobind jee had 3 wives and 5 kids. Non-Sikhs use this argument to say that our Gurus were like ordinary mortals who married more than once and had number of kids from them. I know the reason why Gurujee married 3 times. It was because the girls were promised by their fathers and as was the case in India back then, if u dont marry the man u r promised to, u stay unmarried forever. So to avoid that, Gurujee married 3 times. This was out of concern for their life and not because He wanted to have wives. What I am looking for is more info on this matter. I cant stand some loser thinking our Gurus were mere mortals and trying to belittle Sikhi. I have my points, just need some more solid ones coz i m a super maha moorakh with less than one ounce of gyaan (i m again overestimating myself) and want to be able to convince others (if ever questioned on this matter) that our Gurus were NOT mere mortals, not even close!

Now this is what i found

Taken from : http://allaboutsikhs.com/history/his0328.htm

1620 Guru Hargobind Ji had to marry Nanaki despite his refusal. This was an unfortunate upshot of the jubilation in Sikh community caused by Guru Sahib's release from seven years of incarceration. Within a few months two brides were pledged to him by their parents. Under the customs prevalent at that time, on Guru Hargobind's refusal, those girls would have remained unmarried throughout their life. So he had to marry Nanaki on March 28, 1620, and Mehrai also called Marwahi on July 10, 1620. The first incident occurred too close to his release. Taken aback at the second incident, he announced that no one should pledge his daughter to him in future.

I already know this. I have been requesting more info. Thanks again.

Any "scholars" wanna add anything else about 6th and 10th patshahi before "sentencing me to hell"...LOL

[Guest]

That was a very good article posted by Mehtab Singh. Ignorance of Punjabi customs can lead to a great many assumptions and misunderstandings.

Are you trying to imply- Sant baba Gurbachan Singh Bhindranwaley was ignorant of punjabi customs? :? .. sowwie do clarify more.

Also this topic has been discussed before:

Here is the link for readers/posters to read this thread fully before posting anything on this new thread:

>>>>>

http://www.sikhawareness.com/sikhawareness...highlight=wives <<<<<<

[Mehtab Singh]

Guru Hari Rai (seventh Guru) had eighth wives (all sisters, their names being Mata Krishan Kaur, Mata Chand Kaur, Mata Kaliani, Mata Tokhi, Mata Anokhi, Mata Ladho and Mata Prem Kaur)

?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!

[bobbyboy]

Refutation of the heresy that Guru Gobind Singh was monogamous:

Neo-Sikhs have no shame as they go to the point of re-writing the private life of the Gurus . A growing number of Neo-Sikh institutions have started to propagate the view that polygamy was forbidden in the Sikh tradition. This claim obviously contradicts the traditional sources on the lives of the Sikh Gurus. A document posted on various Neo-Sikh websites by a certain Harjinder Singh He writes:

‘The wrong impression that the Guru had more than one wife was created by those writers who were ignorant of Punjabi culture.’

This statement by a Sikh of the 20th century implies that all those traditional scholars who were contemporary of the Gurus or have a scholarly lineage going back to Guru Gobind Singh are ‘ignorant of Punjabi culture’. Even today the traditional Sikh orders maintain what all the oldest documents state. Sant Gurbachan Singh Bhindranvale, one of the most celebrated traditional Sikh scholars of the 20th century, highly respected by even Neo-Sikhs, basing himself on the original sources clearly states in the Guru Bansvali chapter of his Gurmat Rahit Maryada that Guru Hargobind (the sixth Guru) had three wives (Mata Damodari, Mata Nanaki and Mata Marvahi) Guru Hari Rai (seventh Guru) had eighth wives (all sisters, their names being Mata Krishan Kaur, Mata Chand Kaur, Mata Kaliani, Mata Tokhi, Mata Anokhi, Mata Ladho and Mata Prem Kaur) and Guru Gobind Singh (the tenth Guru) had three wives (Mata Jito, Mata Sundari and Mata Sahib Devan).

The acclaimed Nirmala scholar Pandit Tara Singh Narotam lists the shrines associated with wives of the Gurus. Giani Gian Singh’s Panth Prakash and Tavarikh Guru Khalsa and Bhai Santokh Singh’s Suraj Prakash Granth, all authoritative sources on the lives of the Sikh Gurus clearly state the three Gurus mentioned above were polygamous. Prof. Ganda Singh, a renowned 20th century Sikh scholar published the manuscripts of the hukamnamas of Mata Sahib Devan and Mata Sundari .

The Mughal records themselves mention Mata Sundari and Mata Sahib Devan as being two of the three wives of Guru Gobind Singh.

Saying that Guru Gobind Singh only had one wife is not only heresy but a sinful act.

There is a lot of contradictory writings about the wife/wives of Guru Har Rai. Sant Gurbachan Singh seems to have taken Kavi Santokh Singh's view on eight wives all sisters as an established fact. But do they stand up to scrutiny?

Kesar Singh in Bansalvinama says that

Guru Har Rai married Kot Kalyani also called Sunita. With her came her beautifl maidservant Punjab Kaur, Guru married her as well, eight years after Ram Rai the eldest sonw as born to Punjab Kaur, five years after Punjab Kaur gave birth to Sarup Kaur and a year later ( Guru )Har Krishan was born to Kot Kalyani

Only two wives are listed and Ram Rai and Sarup Kaur were relegated to a lowly birth being born of a maidservant whilst (Guru )Har Krishan was born to a lady of noble birth.

One can see that Kesar Singh writing a century after the event may have tried to relegate Ram Rai as he was aware that he was not given Guruship by Guru Har Rai. Another mistake that Kesar Singh makes is his his confusion of Punjab Kaur as the mother of Ram Rai when in fact she was his wife and continued to look after the Dera at Dun after his death.

Sarup Das Bhalla writing only a decade after Kesar Singh says that Mata Sulakhni was Guru Har Rai's wife and both Rama Rai and Guru Har Krishan were her sons and Bibi Sarup Kaur as their sister. Kavi Saund's Gurpranali agrees with this account. The Bhat Vahis discovered in the 1970's also list Mata Sulakhni as Guru Har Rai's only wife.

It is the Gurpranali literature of the late 18th and early 19th century which has led to confusion about the number of wives of Guru Har Rai.

Whilst Ravi Santokh Singh gives the name sof eight sisters who married Guru Har Rai, the gurpranali of Gulab Singh list four as of noble birth and the other four as being their maidservants whom the Guru also married. Whereas only Kot Kalyani is listed as a maidservant by Kesar Singh.

[Niranjana]

Veer Mehtab Singh and Singh "47",

The view of more than one wife is also shared by the Damdami Taksal and many other mainstream Sikh movements. The Punjabi culture arguments don't work, since many of those who referenced more than one wife were Punjabi themselves and moreover from a time period when such customs would have been the norm for those in the status of Guru Sahib.

In any event, what's the big deal here?

[Mehtab Singh]

I respect Damdami Taksal a lot. Now like after 20 years they have admitted that Sant Baba Jarnail Singh Jee Khalsa Bhindranwale is shaheed, should i look forward to them admitting in the near future that Guru Gobind Singh Jee had only one wife?

The big deal here is those Sikhs who want to justify more than one wife for themselves using Gurujee's example, and those non-Sikhs who pinpoint fingers at our Gurus and our history.

Baki i fully agree that anyone who truly loves Gurujee will love Him no matter what anyone says. For all i care, i m least bothered about what the actual history of this issue is, because i am no one to question my Guru, because i am no one to try and immitate Him. If He had 1 wife, ok. If He had 3, He had His own reasons which my manmukh mind may never understand. Just like a dog doesn't care how its' master treats it, similarly i am not concerned (sahib ros dharo ke pyaar). But i cannot tolerate Sikh and non-Sikhs making a joke out of our history. i cannot tolerate non-Sikhs comparing Guruji to a mere mortal. i think even a dog won't tolerate someone disrespecting its' master.

Other than that, i dont see any big deal.

[Niranjana]

Veera,

This is exactly the point - who are we to judge the actions of Guru Sahib?

Let's look at this another way, we have many arguments on the meat issue which then expand to include 'compassion' as one reason for being vegetarian and so on, this then turns into an anti-hunting stance by many Sikhs today.

Now, the point here is, by today's standards, particularly here in the West, such notions (especially hunting) have become unacceptable to many people. So when we find references indicating that Guru Sahib did hunt, particuarly in his 6th and 10th saroops, people then begin to judge this as well by today's standard.

The result, we end up deriding our own scriptures and Bani, in fact more than just that, Guru Sahib himself. I'm going to leave examples of consuming meat, as this will turn the direction into another unnecessary area, however this should illustrate the point.

So if some foolish people which to point fingers or use examples of 17th century social norms for the 21st century, then that's up to them, but why should we use this as an excuse to deride Gurbani, verily, Guru Sahib himself.