Dam Dami Taksal, Nirmalas and Nihangs

[Niranjana]

The following is taken from http://www.sikhnet.com/sikhnet/discussion....64?OpenDocument and provides an interesting angle on the debates surrounding the Damdami Taksal and Nihang Singhs that have been held on this forum, particularly in light of recent occurrences at the Taksal and the analysis provide of the Bindrawale Taksal conducted on the www.sarbloh.info site.

Could Veer Narsingha, please also shed light on when Ustad Nihang Niddar Singh’s book will be released for public purchase.

Gur Fateh!

Niranjana.

Akali Baba Deep Singh Jee was the Jathedar, or leader of Shahida Missal (one of the 13 Kingdoms)... was also the founder of DamDami Taksal, the Sikh learning centre. The next leader of the Taksal was Akali Nihang Baba Gurbaksh Singh Ji. The third leader was Giani Bhai Surt Singh Ji.

Under the influence of the first 2 leaders, DamDami Taksal was run under the same code of conduct as the Shahida Missal i.e. Saint-soldiers. After these 2 leaders, Nirmla (non amrit-dharee / Hindu) influences started appearing in DamDami Taksal.

How? (the following is taken from Chapter 14 of "The Fighting Traditions And Fighting Arts Of The Traditional Sikh Warriors The Beloved of Guru Gobind Singh Ji The Akali Nihangs" by Nihang Nidar Singh)

"These latter Taksali leaders settled peacefully in Temples along side the Nirmla Sikhs translating Guru Granth Saihb and preaching Sikhism. In the process getting heavily influenced by the Nirmlas . Last century the influence of Nirmlas was enormous .

Nirmlas sprung from those original five Sikhs who Guru Gobind Singh Ji sent to Benares to learn Sanskrit. In order to stay there amongst Bramhnical scholars they adopted some of their habits ie. white clothes and vegetarianism . When the Nirmlas came back to the Punjab they kept these habits . But had no problems cohabiting with the Blue dressing meat eating Akali Nihangs (orignal Khalsa of Guru gobind singh Jee). Nor did the Nihangs have any problems with them . Both parties had a mutual understanding that arguing fore or against meat eating was a fools argument . There were greater issues than this to deal with . At that time the main issue was the survival of Sikhi in face of Moghal hostility .

Whilst the Akali Nihangs were strong it kept the Hindu tendencies of Nirmals checked . But when the British removed Akali influence from the Punjab . These Hindu tendencies of Nirmlas coupled with the greed of the Mahants (corrupt Sikhs running Gurdwaras) ran amok in the Punjab until the modern Singh Sabha movement and modern Akalis stopped it . Apart from these Hindu tendencies Nirmlas have done great service to Sikhi .

Sant Jarnail Singh Bhindrawala as with previous DamDami Taksal leaders freely associated with Chatka eating Akali Nihangs like the late Akali Nihang Baba Bishan Singh Ji supreme head Jathedar of Tarna Dal. But recently some ardent vegetarians claiming to be Taksal supporters have tried to make this into a major issue in Sikhism . Thus harming Sikhism . In Akali Nihang traditions only Halal meat is forbidden."

As you can see DamDami Taksal has been greatly changed since the time of Baba Deep singh Jee. He was a Fighting Military Saint-soldier, wereas the Taksal turned into white-wearing, vegetarians from the Hindu influence. The Taksal also do not allow women to serve in the Punj Pyare, again another ide from Hinduism were women are treated as less than men. Up until last century the Taksal were still performing marriages according to hindu rites. Only after the singh sabha movement and modern Akalis resisted the absorbtion of sikhism into hinduism did the Taksal start following the modern sikh "anand karaj" marriage ceremony.

So veer jee, nothing is easy. As Khalsa you must find out the Truth for yourself. There have been 300 years since Guru Gobind singh Jee started one thing, and now when we are following many hindu/nirmal practises. Even though I have been inspired greatly by many Sants. This is a Hindu tradition of having an unmarried holy man surrounded by young unmarried men preaching to the world. Except in Hindusim the holy man is called "guru" and in sikhism "sant".

[tableji]

vaaaah ji vaah!!!

[SAadmin]

Taksal turned into white-wearing, vegetarians from the Hindu influence.

oh really , i thought taksal adapted white -wearing from sant baba sunder singh ji bhindranvaley time's not just recently...and they were vegetarians from nirmaley influence not hindu influence.

Author failed to mention it was nirmaley in help of singh sabha movement who implemented anand karaj ceremony.

Also, yes there has been few hindu influence in our sampardha's but to call vegeterainism an hindu influence is completely absurd...nirmaley has been always vegeterians since they were created 1. Bhai Dya Singh Ji Sampardha 2. Bhai Dharam Singh Sampardha... it's only few cases according to circumstances like baba sahib singh bedi who was a nirmala and a soldier that he hunted..again but we can't follow his foot steps... because for a bhramgyani at that stage... there is no paap or paun (sin or good deed) and we are not his stage...you will see sants in nirmala mandali may have hunted or eaten meat only in certain circumstances but their shish were never given an non veggie diet.

[vijaydeep Singh]

Gurfateh

Well with due respect to Baba Nidder Singh Ji,

Nirmalas entered Punjab much much later then the Taksal was formed and genrealisng all Taksalis be it Rara Sahib or Damdami with Nirmalas is absurd.

What about Baba Gurbax Singh Ji taking Amrit from Bhai Mani Singh Ji who was neither Nirmala mor SEva Panthi.

Nirmalas are tool to convert Hindus to Sikhism but in Punjab some of them seem to be potrayed the otherway round.

In the Linage of Akhraras of Nirmalas outside Punjab there is no mentio0n of Baba Deep Singh Ji or Bhai Mani Singh Ji nor any Mahapoorosh of Rara Sahib.

Damdami Taksal also has nothing to do with Kumbh Mela or Five/Four holy Hindu places where we have our(Nirmalas) preaching centres.

So let it remain between Nihungs and Taksals and let Nirmalas be not brought in.If some Nirmala joins Taksal then He/She is Taksali only if he/she does not come back after studing Santhiya and remains with them.

If he/she comesd back in Akhara then he/she is Nirmala and not Taksali.

There is a differance.And any way Taksal was and is more near to core or main stream while we are at fringe yet we are greatfull og core thaT THAT THEY TREAT US EQALLY.

[SAadmin]

Nirmalas entered Punjab much much later then the Taksal was formed and genrealisng all Taksalis be it Rara Sahib or Damdami with Nirmalas is absurd.

Vijaydeep singh,

i don't know about damdami but rara sahib is nirmala sampardha(lineage) coming from bhai dya singh ji time.

check this out : http://www.rarasahib.com/images/sg.gif

Nirmalaie sampardha was intially started by 5 singhs who went to kansi but when they came back they trained bhai dya singh ji and bhai dharam singh ji..from that point- two sampardha with 24 upsampardha's were started by Bhai Dya Singh Ji and Bhai Dharam Singh Ji.

[vijaydeep Singh]

Gurfateh

Bhai N30 Singh Ji with due respect Das want to say one thing.

Taksal of Rara Sahib and orders by Bhai Daya Singh and Bhai Dhram Singh ji which you are saying might have taken training from Nirmalas and there is no dopbt that Nirmalas hvae brotherly realtionship with them.

Same could be said for Damdami Taksal,SEvaPanthis Udasis or Main Panth(The Akai Nihung Singhs) but Bhai Daya Singh Ji Samprdaya or of Bhai Dhram Singh Ji(Das wants to tell that his native village is near Hastinapur Western Uttar Pradesh and Gurudwara is there) They had some Extra qualifiactions then Nirmalas who live in India outside Punjab.They were preaching serivce,Gurbani among many others thing and Amrit Sanskar was and is encouraged by them.

While people who are Nirmalas with Akharas in various part of India are considered as with Vaishnav Akhara Parishad and may be expert in old Sanatan Dhramis scriptures and philosophies.There manin aim is to bring the intellect of Hindus ie Pandits into Gurmat fold and if this done most of the Hindus will be Sanatan Dharmi Sikhs.

Das here wants to say that Weather Guru in Tenth form made some orders(Sampradayas) or Speacial form of Tenth Guru(Khalsa) made some Samprdayas they must be recoganised as what they are.Das just want to say that just tagging Rara Sahib Taksal or even Nanaksar even with lots of Nirmala contribution may be injustice to the uniqueness of the said Taksals or orders.

So recoganising there differance ,which is often good for Panth as in the form of specialisation we must not try to put every one under one Name Nirmalas while Nirmalas as it purest form are still to be found in Kankhal.Or you can verfy this from Baba Ram Singh Ji of Rishikesh that our brotherhood is large hearted and we do not impose our name on other till other himself/herself wants that.Even if he/she has very close relation with us.

Nirmala does not preach for fame but as an order given to him/her by Akal and Akal may decide who is one of and who is not.

Forgive das if wrong is writtan.

[unbreakable]

..

[tSingh]

Getting back to the point,

Vijaydeepji,

You are incorrect about Nirmalay not being Punjab from the beginning. Those early Nirmalay resided in what was then Punjab from the time of Guru Gobind Singh ji. If I remember correctly Baba Punjab Singh was sent to Khadur Sahib at this time. Likewise, the parampra held by the Nirmalay of Baba Sundar Singh Bhindranwale certainly has common individuals with many Nirmala upsamprdas, and hence as such considering that Pandit Tara Singh Narotam features in this parampra, who was a Sri Mahant of Panchayti Akhara, does link to those who reside at kumbh mela sites (all the panchayti akharas). I'd be interested to hear what someone like Baba Jagjit Singh Herkhowal thinks of this issue.

[vijaydeep Singh]

Gurfateh

Dear Bro Tsingh Ji,

Das is sorry for not not wrtiting thingsd as clear.

Das did discuss this thing with both his mahraj from Nirmalas side when he was in Haridwar and to a Person who was in Rara Sahib's Karamsar at ilford essex UK.

As per that persoan from Rara Sahib they are also Nirmala ie without any inpurity in literal sense but they say that in genral they consider Nirmala as without baptism and in saffron clad.

Coming back to Maharaj ji of Das who told Das this thing that Nirmalas are definatly Sikh but they were formed before the formation of Khalsa and that was in Paunta Sahib.

As they were made outside Punjab ie HP and went to Kashi,They return much after Khalsa was formed.As per Sau Sakhi Guru Ji had a sort punshment to person who did not pronuce Gurbani correctly and did estabksih Damdam sahib which seems to be before the coming of Nirmalsa to Punjab after finshing the studies at Kashi.

It is likely that there could be some personal observation of Bhai Gurbax Singh Ji Ram Kaur who says that that Damdama was made by Guru before leaving Anandpur Sahib as so far we know that Guru Ki Kashi was made only after Gurus leaving Anandpur Sahib.

So Das will repeat that Das is talking about Nirmalsa coming to Punjab later then ESTABLISHMENT OF TAKSAL.If Taksal was made at Anandpur Sahib iteself then Das is more likely to be true else he is less lkiely to be true.

Lator on say after Baba Deep Singh Ji and Baba Gurbax Singh Nihung it is posbile that a good lots of elements from Panchyat coming into Taksal but that thing is still happening.

Das is repeating that Das tlaked about Nirmalas comimng in Punjab after the foundation of Khalsa and that is sure shot but there is a room of doubt about there coming weather or not after establisjment of taksal.

As per Sau Sakhi and its realtie quotes by Taksal it may be possible that there is very very little time between comonmg of nirmalsa to Punjab and formation of Taksal.

If Taksal is made at Guru ki Kashi then there is no mention of any Nirmalas goiong with Guru from Anandpur Sahib to Damadama sahib while Bhia Daya Singh Ji even if he had learnt something from Nirmalsa were Khalsa first.In fact the first Khalsa.

He could be there when Taksal was formed but that does not prove Taksal to be part of Nirmalas.

Das is repeating that at present Nirmalas das know do not consider Rara Sahib Taksal or Damdami Taksal as thier branch but as it has happened in Sanatan Sikhi that a person can be a member of both.

[Jungee]

1 question...niranjana...the book where u made ur quote from...what edition is it.

most of it was typed out by his students..and the one which is being circulated in the public...which i am assuming is the 4th edition and not any higher..has many mistakes in it.

currently the version in the akhara is the 9th edition...and there are a lot of changes,insertions, and extractions from the book.

at present i personnaly wouldn't rely on the book u have as gospel.....

just be patient ...the new book will be out by holla

[vijaydeep Singh]

Gurfateh

Das wuold only like to say that as some part of Das writing above are rather unclear so Das is in touch with T Singh in this reagrd and will only put final thing after Respected T Singh Ji's approvel.

[The truth]

wow 9 editions of one book

i thought truth was truth

why 9 editions, to make sure all the evidence gathered is one sided?

[artistformalyknownasodhi]

yeh thats right...... how about so that the information presented is correct.... how about the information is not bias....

[The truth]

Hanji i understand that

but if the information WAS not correct or was biased in the 1st version, then once realised, do you still need 9 versions to get the 'correct' version and a non biased version

[artistformalyknownasodhi]

as we do not live in the times that this book is supposed to educate us of, ofcourse information will need to researched, scrutanised(sp) and researched again..... obviosly the author cannot take one oral translation of something as gospal, he would have to carry on and do further research.....

u no as we sikhs search for the truth... maybe its the same with writing books.

[Kam1825]

going back to the original post regarding this i dont think i can trust the majority of the stuff on sarbloh.info regarding taksal.

In the site it critisices the lineage from Baba Deeep Singh Ji and says that this isnt the lineage that Sant Baba Gurbachan Singh Ji accepted.

All niddar had to do was listen to their katha which is on www.kathaa.com as 9 minutes into the second mp3 they state their is two lineages one from Bhai Mani Singh which at the time Sant Kirpal Singh Ji was heading and know headed by Sant Makhan Singh Ji also know as Sat Gali Walae Jatha.

Baba Gurbachan Singh Ji state that they head the taksal started by Baba Deep Singh Ji. If that isn't enough truth that they accepted it and it wasn't just made up by Sant Kartar Singh Ji to gain popularity then i don't know how brain washed and messed they are!

[Guest]

i agree kam veer ji