Can the sound Waheguru replace Raam?

[Balbir Singh]

Pray Truth for all and say Satsriakal!

Dear all!

I received a strange e-post today. It states 'The sound now is Waheguru, not Raam.'.

I want to ask what they did with the adored sound Raam that the Gurus received from God.

The word Raam occurs many thousand times in Sri Guru Granth Sahib Jee. In Guru's life it was active behind all Godly engagements.

Please express your views if it is the new rule to become a Sikh.

Balbir Singh

[Mystical]

If you cant see God in all, how can you see God at all?

Ram, Allah, Vaheguru are one and the same.

Bhai Gurdaas Vaar 01

sathijug sathigur vaasadhaev vaavaa vishanaa naam japaavai||

In Satyug, Visnu in the form of Vasudev is said to have incarnated and ‘V’ Of Vahiguru reminds of Visnu.

dhuaapar sathigur hareekrishan haahaa har har naam dhhiaavai||

The true Guru of dvapar is said to be Harikrsna and ‘H’ of Vahiguru reminds of Hari.

thraethae sathigur raam jee raaraa raam japae sukh paavai||

In the the treta was Ram and ‘R’ of Vahiguru tells that rembering Ram will produce joy and happiness.

kalijug naanak gur gobi(n)dh gagaa govi(n)dh naam japaavai||

In kalijug, Gobind is in the form of Nanak and ‘G’ of Vahiguru gets Govind recited.

chaarae jaagae chahu jugee pa(n)chaaein vich jaae samaavai||

The recitations o f all the four ages subsume in Panchayan i.e. in the soul of the common man.

chaaro(n) ashhar eik kar vaahiguroo jap ma(n)thr japaavai||

When joining four letters Vahiguru is remembered,

jehaa(n) thae oupajiaa fir thehaa(n) samaavai ||aa||a||

The jiv merges again in its origin.

[Balbir Singh]

Pray Truth for all and say Satsriakal!

Dear all and RupZ Jee!

Quote "If you cant see God in all, how can you see God at all? Ram, Allah, Vaheguru are one and the same."

That is great. May I ask if God is the same after rejecting or replacing Raam?

Balbir Singh

[Maha Singh]

Whats in a name?

[das]

Waheguru is not replacement of Ram (here Ram is NOT referring to Ram Chandar ji. Here Ram is the one of the name given to GOD).

One can attain mukti by saying Ram Ram or by saying Waheguru or Allah or Raab.

Remember, ganka (initially a prostitute) removed her bad deeds by repeating the name of her parrot (the name of the parrot was Ram (as suggested by a sadhu)).....

and One Singh (the name slipped out of my mind) attained gayan by just saying "Pare Hat" because when he has gone to Guru Gobind Singh Ji, Guru Ji said "Pare Hut"....and started saying "Pare Hut" all the time and thus attained the Gayan. So, basically it is NOT a religion, it is our self....how we are remembering GOD.....Remeber GOD (Waheguru/Ram/Allah/God/Raab) with every breath.

Moreover, Baba Nand Singh Ji recommended everyone to do ONE Complete Guru Granth Sahib Ji path in a month. Then what about some illiterate people in village who don't know Gurbani. Then Baba Nand Singh Ji suggested the following ways which are equal to the One Guru Granth Sahib Ji path.

1. Complete recitation of the whole of Sri Guru Granth Sahib in a month.

2. Complete 60 paths of Sri Sukhmani Sahib in a month; recite 2 paths of Sri Sukhmani Sahib daily.

3. Complete 250 paths of Jap Ji Sahib in a month; recite 10 paths of Jap Ji Sahib daily.

4. Complete 180 Malas (Rosary Mala of 108 beads) of Mool Mantra (from Ekonkar to Nanak Hosi Bhi Such) in a month; do six malas daily.

5. Complete 80 Malas daily of Gur Mantar 'Waheguru'; 20 Malas of Waheguru if the Nam is recited four times on each bead.

6. Complete 160 Malas daily of Ram (Nam); 40 Malas if Ram is recited four times on each bead.

I hope it helps.

Das

[das]

just a correction: It is 50 Sukhmani Sahib path in One month and NOT 60 Sukhmani Sahib path in one month.

[Balbir Singh]

Pray Truth for all and say Satsriakal!

Dear all!

Quote from Maha Singh Jee "Whats in a name?"

All what is done and lived by Maha Singh is known by the name Maha Singh, for example.

Like a person called by his name becomes interested to know who is calling, God becomes interested in that person when called by His Naam. Problem lies with people who think they know God's Naam, because they read it somewhere.

Quote from Das Jee "Waheguru is not replacement of Ram (here Ram is NOT referring to Ram Chandar ji. Here Ram is the one of the name given to GOD)."

Since ages many smart persons have tried to give God names, unsuccessfully. Such people think they may even give birth to God when they start japping. God's Naam is also not the decoration produced by human beings and purchased in a spiritual Bazaar organized by business Baabaas.

God suggests God's names Himself and transfers through Aadi Guru, Jugaadi Guru, Sat Guru and Sri Guru to the true Sikh. Waah Guru is then by God's Grace recognized as thankful blessing.

May I ask what is to be understood with the phrase 'The sound now is Waheguru, not Raam.'?

Quote "One can attain mukti by saying Ram Ram or by saying Waheguru or Allah or Raab."

Why are many waiting for attaining Mukti then?

Quote "Remember, ganka (initially a prostitute) removed her bad deeds by repeating the name of her parrot (the name of the parrot was Ram (as suggested by a sadhu))....."

All worldly people are like prostitutes. Ganikaa means one who counts. It comes from Ganit, mathematics. The Saadhoo gracefully transferred God's Naam to Ganikaa. She forgot every other counting and reached God as God is beyond all counting. That is the essence of Ganikaa's story.

What Baabaa Nand Singh Jee suggested to someone was all right for that time and situation. His purpose was to bring that individual to a smaller counting first. Baabaa Nand Singh Jee also suggested all for Muktee. One reaches Muktee when all counts are finished.

Balbir Singh

[Mystical]

If im not wrong, Ram was Kabeer Ji's Manter. And I think Guru Ji said that Kabeer Ji crossed the wave currents of life.

[das]

where I said "name given to GOD"...........it means that GOD is represented by a name "Ram"..........it's not that we have given GOD a name......

moreover, it is NOT us who have given Ram name to GOD..........Ram is mentioned in Guru Granth Sahib Ji...........

On whom GOD has kirpa, achieved mukti even by saying one time "Ik Om Kar"..............and at the same time there are people like us who are still trying to achieve mukti by recieting the naam for 2.5 hours and some receiting it with every breath (but in the core of the heart we think that I AM receiting naam)...............In this birth we are given the opportunity to take Amrit and do path, and we do take Amrit and doing paath, but have we attained mukti.........or we are again going to miss this oppourtunity as we did missed in all previous births?

secondly, you have mentioned that: "What Baabaa Nand Singh Jee suggested to someone was all right for that time and situation.".............I beg your pardon that whatever Brahmgyani says are ALWAYS right.......how could we say that it was right for that time...........Brahmgyanis are totally one with GOD, and then how GOD could be right for some time and wrong at another time. .............

you asked "Why are many waiting for attaining Mukti then?"................can we ask ourselves this question????? we are reciting Waheguru Waheguru all the time, but still we have NOT attained the mukti..........Why?

Anyways, may GOD place HIS hand on us and offer us the strength to follow Guru Granth Sahib je and attain mukti.

moreover, I would like to point that DO NOT say anything bad to any Saint/Brahmgyani even if we know that "In todays world there are very less real Sants", because we do NOT have the capability to judge whether someone is Sant or not..............Brahmgyani ke gat Brahmgyani Jane.......so, we should at-least respect the attire they are wearing......and do NOT say or think bad about any................we never know who is Brahmgyani and who is not............it is possible that we might say bad to real Brahmgyani and if that's the case, we have to pay for it..

I responded to this thread thinking that someone needs help in some topic, I was not aware that the this post is meant to test the people ............spread Waheguru da naam.

Wahegur Ji Ka Khalsa, Waheguru Ji Ke Fateh

[Dynamic_Banda]

i guess in one way it could possibly be explained like this..

waheguru and ram are all names of the same lord.. and repeating anything with the lord in contemplation is naam..

i guess the only thing that might make waheguru more then ram.. could be taking Bhai Gurdas ji Vaara, into account.. that waheguru is made up of four parts, and therefor is like saying ram and three other names at the same time.. guess its not about quantity but quality.

As kaljug becomes greater we need as much help as we can get

[SAadmin]

agree with db fully.

[Balbir Singh]

Pray Truth for all and say Satsriakal!

Dear all!

Quote from Das Jee " . . . it's not that we have given GOD a name......moreover, it is NOT us who have given Ram name to GOD..........Ram is mentioned in Guru Granth Sahib Ji . . ."

This is what they call the borrowed knowledge.

Quote "On whom GOD has kirpa, achieved mukti even by saying one time 'Ik Om Kar'"

I would love to meet someone.

Quote "and at the same time there are people like us who are still trying to achieve mukti by recieting the naam for 2.5 hours and some receiting it with every breath (but in the core of the heart we think that I AM receiting naam)...............In this birth we are given the opportunity to take Amrit and do path, and we do take Amrit and doing paath, but have we attained mukti.........or we are again going to miss this oppourtunity as we did missed in all previous births?"

It seems that many have not come to know them either.

Quote " . . . I beg your pardon that whatever Brahmgyani says are ALWAYS right.......how could we say that it was right for that time...........Brahmgyanis are totally one with GOD, and then how GOD could be right for some time and wrong at another time."

Please accompany me. Do not run faster. It is a matter between the doctor and the patient. The doctor best knows prescribing the right medicine at the right time for the particular patient. That medicine may not be for everyone. The knowledge of diagnosing and truth of medicine may be universal, specially for the learned ones.

Quote "can we ask ourselves this question????? we are reciting Waheguru Waheguru all the time, but still we have NOT attained the mukti..........Why?"

I do not know where Gurdev asked us to do so.

Quote "Anyways, may GOD place HIS hand on us and offer us the strength to follow Guru Granth Sahib je and attain mukti."

Did Gurdev suggest us to follow anyone? Gurdev suggested us to accompany Gurshabad, during inner journey. Sri Guru Granth Sahib Jee is outside. Those, who have not come to know the inner journey, do not know true Simran.

Quote "I would like to point that DO NOT say anything bad to any Saint/Brahmgyani . . ."

Thanks for your suggestion but please allow me to scold my ego and share joy with my Saadhoo friends.

Quote "I responded to this thread thinking that someone needs help in some topic, I was not aware that the this post is meant to test the people . . ."

Thanks. Your help has reached well through your participation. I still do not know what they did with the sound Raam.

**************

Quote from Dynamic_Banda Jee "i guess in one way it could possibly be explained like this.."

People who know do not guess.

Quote "waheguru and ram are all names of the same lord.. and repeating anything with the lord in contemplation is naam."

I found Gurdev singing just the other way. Through Naam one gets the contemplation of the Lord and recognizes the wisdom of His Attributes.

Quote "i guess the only thing that might make waheguru more then ram.. could be taking Bhai Gurdas ji Vaara, into account.. that waheguru is made up of four parts, and therefor is like saying ram and three other names at the same time.. guess its not about quantity but quality."

According to Bhai Gurdaas Jee Waheguru consists of four parts. Each part is representing one incarnation of Vishnu.

Gurdev is singing about twenty-four incarnations of Vishnu alone. I also feel that Waheguru is not limited.

Quote "As kaljug becomes greater we need as much help as we can get."

I appreciate receiving true Naam Simran in Kalijug and smile follows naturally.

Balbir Singh

[das]

I do NOT have any knowledge. I am the worst and good for nothing. Thanks. You are the most learned one. May GOD be always by your side. I will try not to post any new post in this forum as I do not want to enter into argument.

[Balbir Singh]

Pray Truth for all and say Satsriakal!

Dear Das Jee!

Hearty thanks, for your posts and Satsangs. I did not know many things that I learnt from it.

Your unique place in heart of Sarguna God is as great as God's Will. Let us enjoy it together.

Balbir Singh

[akalpurkh]

On 12/12/2006 at 9:47 PM, das said:

Waheguru is not replacement of Ram (here Ram is NOT referring to Ram Chandar ji. Here Ram is the one of the name given to GOD).

One can attain mukti by saying Ram Ram or by saying Waheguru or Allah or Raab.

 

Remember, ganka (initially a prostitute) removed her bad deeds by repeating the name of her parrot (the name of the parrot was Ram (as suggested by a sadhu)).....

 

and One Singh (the name slipped out of my mind) attained gayan by just saying "Pare Hat" because when he has gone to Guru Gobind Singh Ji, Guru Ji said "Pare Hut"....and started saying "Pare Hut" all the time and thus attained the Gayan. So, basically it is NOT a religion, it is our self....how we are remembering GOD.....Remeber GOD (Waheguru/Ram/Allah/God/Raab) with every breath.

 

Moreover, Baba Nand Singh Ji recommended everyone to do ONE Complete Guru Granth Sahib Ji path in a month. Then what about some illiterate people in village who don't know Gurbani. Then Baba Nand Singh Ji suggested the following ways which are equal to the One Guru Granth Sahib Ji path.

 

1. Complete recitation of the whole of Sri Guru Granth Sahib in a month.

2. Complete 60 paths of Sri Sukhmani Sahib in a month; recite 2 paths of Sri Sukhmani Sahib daily.

3. Complete 250 paths of Jap Ji Sahib in a month; recite 10 paths of Jap Ji Sahib daily.

4. Complete 180 Malas (Rosary Mala of 108 beads) of Mool Mantra (from Ekonkar to Nanak Hosi Bhi Such) in a month; do six malas daily.

5. Complete 80 Malas daily of Gur Mantar 'Waheguru'; 20 Malas of Waheguru if the Nam is recited four times on each bead.

6. Complete 160 Malas daily of Ram (Nam); 40 Malas if Ram is recited four times on each bead.

 

I hope it helps.

 

Das

STOP MISLEADING INNOCENT SIKHS

How the heck in the world did you came with this fake sakhi of Guru Gobind Sikh saying "Pare Hut" to a SIkh. Was our Guruji so RUDE to a Sikh? What is wrong with this forum?

Counting is Contrary to Gurmat

Counting beads – ਮਾਲਾ ਫੇਰਨੀ, chanting with Maalaa (rosary)…

When Kabeer Sahib realized he wasted his life in Kashi (“ਸਗਲ ਜਨਮੁ ਸਿਵ ਪੁਰੀ ਗਵਾਇਆ ॥”, (sggs 326). ) by following the worthless rituals prescribed by the Brahmin / Pundit (such as counting beads – Maalaa or rosary, and so on), he moved from there. After realizing uselessness of empty rituals such as counting beads, he threw away the rosary and declared:

• ਭੂਖੇ ਭਗਤਿ ਨ ਕੀਜੈ ॥ ਯਹ ਮਾਲਾ ਅਪਨੀ ਲੀਜੈ ॥: Bhookhe bhagti na keejai. Jah maalaa apanee leejai: Bhagti (devotion…) cannot be performed while hungry (for Maya – Maya’s hunger, love of Maya…). (So) Here is Your Maalaa (rosary), take it back. (sggs 656).

The person who counts beads (ਮਾਲਾ ਫੇਰਨੀ) is full of hunger for Maya (ਮਾਇਆ ਦਾ ਭੁੱਖਾ) – totally Mann Mateeaa (ਮਨ ਮਤੀਆ-the Manmukh who lives against the Gurmat or Teaching of the Gurbani). Those who take on Maalaa are called “ਨਿਪੂਤੇ” (worthless son-ਔਂਤਰਾ) in the Gurbani, for in such worthless stubborn minded practice there can be noSukha (ਸੁਖ).

• ਜਬ ਕੀ ਮਾਲਾ ਲਈ ਨਿਪੂਤੇ ਤਬ ਤੇ ਸੁਖੁ ਨ ਭਇਓ ॥੧॥ ਰਹਾਉ ॥: Jabb kee maalaa laee nipoote tabb te sukhu n bhaio ||1||Rahaaou||: Ever since this worthless son (i.e., mind, ਔਂਤਰਾ ਮਨ…) has taken the Maalaa (rosary), since than there has been no Sukha (Joy, ਪ੍ਰਾਪਤੀ, Gain, etc.)! ||1||Pause|| (sggs 856).

Thus, the Gurbani repudiates (Khandan) Pakhand-Baazee (deception, hypocrisy, humbug, pretense, etc.) such as counting beads (chanting with Maalaa, rosary). Such nonsense was introduced by those who purposely intended to corrupt the Gurmat (Aatam-Giaan, Knowledge, Wisdom, or Teaching of the Gurbani). Instead of correcting this mistake, unfortunately, this falsehood is not only carried on, but further propagated by the Mayadhaaree Pujaaree-Group (Bhais, Granthees, Raagees, Jathedaars, Paathees, and so on). It’s all “Golak Daa Chakkar” (money)! The Gurbani wants us to make meditation (Naam-Simran: Gur-Giaan, Shabad-Vichaar…) the rosary enshrined in the Heart within.

• ਹਰਿ ਮਾਲਾ ਉਰ ਅੰਤਰਿ ਧਾਰੈ ॥ ਜਨਮ ਮਰਣ ਕਾ ਦੂਖੁ ਨਿਵਾਰੈ ॥੨॥: Har maalaa our antar dhaarai || Janam maran kaa dookh nivaarai ||2||: (That person who) enshrines the rosary of God’s Name within the heart, is freed of the pains of birth and death cycle ||2|| (sggs 388).

But still, as seen everyday, the emphasis of most of the clergy, clerics, Bhais, Raagees, Kathaakaars, Giaanees, Parchaaraks, Sants, Baabaas, etc., is to promote religious symbols and rituals that are strongly repudiated by the Gurbani. They are totally in contradiction with the Divine Teaching (Aatam-Giaan…) and purpose of the SGGS. Why does Gurbani rejects this nonsense? Because all calculations or all calculated Bhagti is in false ego-sense (Haumai). Consider these verses:

• ਹਉਮੈ ਸਭਾ ਗਣਤ ਹੈ ਗਣਤੈ ਨਉ ਸੁਖੁ ਨਾਹਿ ॥: All accounting is in egotism. In this accounting, there is no Peace (sggs 36).
• ਗਣਤੈ ਪ੍ਰਭੂ ਨ ਪਾਈਐ ਦੂਜੈ ਭਰਮੀਤਾ ॥: Ganatai prabhoo na paaeeai doojai bharameetaa: God cannot be obtained by counting; the mortal wanders in doubt — Maya, duality etc. (sggs 510).

This Giaan of the Gurbani is also meant for the Sikhs!! If we don’t believe it then we are not Sikhs. the Gurmat and Saakat-Matt are two different and opposing things. All counting is for the conditioned or material being (Manmukh, Saakat, Mayadhaaree…) for his life or world is in the realm of calculations — egoism or Maya.

There is no counting or calculations for the one who has become the Gurmukh (one who lives the Shabad-Giaan, Gur-Giaan, Gurmat…); because he knows he is not separate from God. He thus relieves himself of all egoistic or mental calculations through the constant abidance in his Joti-Svaroopa within.

So the Gurbani urges us to stop counting beads and become the Gurmukhi.

• ਗੁਰਮੁਖਿ ਸਗਲੀ ਗਣਤ ਮਿਟਾਵੈ ॥: Gurmukh sagalee ganath mittaavai: The Gurmukh erases all calculations (sggs 942).

[GurpreetKaur]

I have heard the saakhi pare hut too and my first thought was oh that's rude but you gotta understand from a father point of view. Guru ji was in rush and he was stopping guru ji without realizing it and if 10th Master said pare hut lets not be a cry baby that a pare hut would make us feel sad and hurtful. We don't even know maybe it was guru ji's khel since that Singh eventually became enlightened with "pare hut". Parents love us but they can't  be all loving all day long when kids get annoyino.

Also, you can post the essay in a new topic rather than flooding all the topics with same essay, it makes people think your agenda is just to promote your or that websites essay rather having a discussion. I know I am mean today :(

[das]

On ‎3‎/‎6‎/‎2016 at 8:12 AM, akalpurkh said:

Counting is Contrary to Gurmat

bhaji, tell me one simple thing: How would you take aim at sky/space (which happens to be infinite in this Universe)?

I guess you cannot, you need to have some kind of object so that you can aim into. Same way, our goal is to reach Waheguru, but it starts by putting your concentration on something and in this case, it happened to be a Mala. We don't have to put concentration on Mala; its just a technique which helps to meet the target.

Remember, if you want to cross the world of Maya, you HAVE to go THROUGH it.....in order words, everything we do is in the realms of Maya/Mind/Time/Space; so we're bound to use the techniques which are created in Time and Space (i.e Maya)........anything that is created will be destroyed after some Time. i.e anything born/created (Religions/Techniques/Caste/Creed/Anything/Everything) in the space of time is under the rule of Maya/Mind. The problem is that our mind cannot understand the infinity if we don't START with counting from 1. e.g Ship is meant to cross the ocean, but if you stick with the ship even after crossing the ocean, then you're considered mad. Also, if you don't board the ship (i.e don't start working on the mind because of this and that), then you're also considered as mad because you never started the journey to cross the ocean.......all are mind games.

 Lastly, the beautiful Gurbani quotes that you've mentioned, kindly read the whole shabads in order to get the essence of what GuruJi is trying to convey.

Also, the essence of the above sakhi and numerous other just proves that the power is not in the words......but within ourselves which is exposed by the said word. That word is given by your Guru (e.g Waheguru) as per the student's capability. So, the purpose of the word is just to awaken your innerself. e.g If you study the basic 5 senses, you will find out that even a smell of something that you've eaten in the past, would take you to that old particular location. Same way.....