Balbir Singh Posted August 14, 2007 Report Share Posted August 14, 2007 Pray Truth for all and say Satsriakal! Dear all! Sikhs perhaps know Waahiguroo. May I ask who is the mother of Waahiguroo? Balbir Singh Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SAadmin Posted August 14, 2007 Report Share Posted August 14, 2007 Vahiguroo doesnt have any gender. Vahiguroo is shakta and when it transcedent itself its- shiv(refer not to shivji but vahiguroo) shakti/daiv shakti. Some people call - shakta(masculine energy) and some people call it shakti (female energy) but in reality nirgun paratma is rehat(free) from these gender labels. Please read jaap sahib to further read upon nirgun paratma- attributes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balbir Singh Posted August 14, 2007 Author Report Share Posted August 14, 2007 Pray Truth for all and say Satsriakal! Dear all and N30 SINGH Jee! Quote "Vahiguroo doesnt have any gender". Please provide a reference from the Gurus. I will be grateful. Balbir Singh Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SAadmin Posted August 14, 2007 Report Share Posted August 14, 2007 Pray Truth for all and say Satsriakal! Dear all and N30 SINGH Jee! Quote "Vahiguroo doesnt have any gender". Please provide a reference from the Gurus. I will be grateful. Balbir Singh This should be more than enough proof: source: Jaap Sahib Mukhvak Patsah Daswin ਸ੍ਰੀ ਮੁਖਵਾਕ ਪਾਤਿਸਾਹੀ ੧੦ ॥ स्री मुखवाक पातिसाही १० ॥ The sacred utterance of The Tenth Sovereign: ਛਪੈ ਛੰਦ ॥ ਤ੍ਵਪ੍ਰਸਾਦਿ ॥ छपै छंद ॥ त्वप्रसादि ॥ CHHAPAI STANZA. BY THY GRACE ਚੱਕ੍ਰ ਚਿਹਨ ਅਰੁ ਬਰਨ ਜਾਤਿ ਅਰੁ ਪਾਤਿ ਨਹਿਨ ਜਿਹ ॥ च्क्र चिहन अरु बरन जाति अरु पाति नहिन जिह ॥ He who is without mark or sign, He who is without caste or line. ਰੂਪ ਰੰਗ ਅਰੁ ਰੇਖ ਭੇਖ ਕੋਊ ਕਹਿ ਨ ਸਕਤਿ ਕਿਹ ॥ रूप रंग अरु रेख भेख कोऊ कहि न सकति किह ॥ He who is without colour or form, and without any distinctive norm. ਅਚਲ ਮੂਰਤਿ ਅਨਭਉ ਪ੍ਰਕਾਸ ਅਮਿਤੋਜਿ ਕਹਿਜੈ ॥ अचल मूरति अनभउ प्रकास अमितोजि कहिजै ॥ He who is without limit and motion, All effulgence, non-descript Ocean Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maha Singh Posted August 14, 2007 Report Share Posted August 14, 2007 After Balbir Singh gets the answer to this, a new topic will come up "who is the mother of the mother of waheguroo?" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amrikingh Posted August 14, 2007 Report Share Posted August 14, 2007 LMAO Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balbir Singh Posted August 14, 2007 Author Report Share Posted August 14, 2007 Pray Truth for all and say Satsriakal! Dear all and N30 SINGH Jee! Thanks for your post. Quote "He who is without colour or form, and without any distinctive norm." Does it say that "Vahiguroo doesnt have any gender?" Balbir Singh Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shaheediyan Posted August 14, 2007 Report Share Posted August 14, 2007 Balbir Singh Ji, Why don't you share your opinion first and then ask others, from all your posts it is clear your opinion has already been formed before you post your question. Jaap Sahib does answer your question as N3o Singh suggests - gender is a distinctive form - physically or in the form of personality. To add Vaheguru can be both male and female or neither: ਨਮੋ ਸਰਬ ਰੂਪੇ ॥ ਨਮੋ ਸਰਬ ਭੂਪੇ ॥੧੯॥ नमो सरब रूपे ॥ नमो सरब भूपे ॥१९॥ Salutation to Thee O Mullti-form Lord! Salutation to Thee O Universal King Lord!19. Now maybe you would like to further expand on and give us your opinion on your question, who is the mother of Vaheguru? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balbir Singh Posted August 14, 2007 Author Report Share Posted August 14, 2007 Pray Truth for all and say Satsriakal! Dear all and Shaheediyan Jee! Quote "Why don't you share your opinion first and then ask others, from all your posts it is clear your opinion has already been formed before you post your question." I hope nobody has a problem with my curiosity. Quote "To add Vaheguru can be both male and female or neither" I feel God is male, female and beyond both also. A Jeev can be male, female or neither. Quote "Now maybe you would like to further expand on and give us your opinion on your question, who is the mother of Vaheguru?" The Gurus never use this word 'Waahiguroo' for the Supreme Lord. Perhaps someone gave birth to this word 'Waahiguroo' and many started imitating. Those, who give birth to something, may be knowing its mother also. Balbir Singh Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SAadmin Posted August 14, 2007 Report Share Posted August 14, 2007 Veer, off course god can be both male and female but in sargun saroop, i thought we were talking about Vahiguroo in nirgun roop which is beyond genders. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shaheediyan Posted August 14, 2007 Report Share Posted August 14, 2007 Balbir Singh Ji, So you are saying you give no importance to Bhai Gurdaas Ji's Vaaran or the whole Sikh Panth in all it's guises, who have been handed down Gurmantar via the Panj Pyare from our Guru Sahibans time? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balbir Singh Posted August 14, 2007 Author Report Share Posted August 14, 2007 Pray Truth for all and say Satsriakal! Dear all and N30 SINGH Jee! Quote "Veer, off course god can be both male and female but in sargun saroop," Right. One tries to show God with the word 'Waahiguroo'. This effort is also HIS Sargun Saroop. No one can express Nirgun God, also not with the word 'Waahiguroo'. All Names to express God are His Sargun Roop. Quote "i thought we were talking about Vahiguroo in nirgun roop which is beyond genders." Experience of Nirgun God is possible only by negating the use of Sargun God and reaching complete silence. Talking keeps one engaged with HIS Sargun Roop. ************** Quote from Shaheediyan Jee "So you are saying you give no importance to Bhai Gurdaas Ji's Vaaran or the whole Sikh Panth in all it's guises, who have been handed down Gurmantar via the Panj Pyare from our Guru Sahibans time?" Only those receive Gurumantra as Gurprasaad who received it from their true Guru. Your so-called Gurumantra is Waheguru. Strange, the universal Gurus did not speak or write once about it. Your Gurumantra is the suggestion from Bhai Gurdas Jee. What some funny folk are existing on earth right now? They speak the word Waheguru suggested by someone else and call their Guru someone else. They replace their Guru's words and feel proud to do so. Today they suggest erasing their Guru's written words and attempt to reach God. I observe this is all because of the ignorance of the preachers. The true Gurus are still inviting all smilingly. I have a question to simple heart Sikhs. When will the lost preachers leave them from their jaws? The Gurus also never say to chant a replaced name each time they evoke a peculiar Name. The Gurus but suggest saying a particular name each time, and that is surely not Waheguru. Also, On this planet, a great tradition exists. They call this true Sikhism. Their Gurus never gave Gurumantra in writing to anybody. Simultaneously the height of ignorance exists among some preacher folk. They give Gurumantra because someone has written it somewhere. One participant from other forum wrote me that I should not attack the well-established practices of Sikhism. I am still waiting for the list of such practices. I trust what my true Guru, Sri Guru Granth Sahib Jee, confirms. Any infiltration in original Sikhi is unbearable to all true Sikhs. We should make all, aware of it. ************** All that exists is Sargun God. That receives birth also. That has a mother too. Balbir Singh Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shaheediyan Posted August 15, 2007 Report Share Posted August 15, 2007 I take it you haven't taken Khande da amrit. Vaheguru Gurmantar was given to the panj pyare by Sri Guru Gobind Singh Ji. All historical references dating back to the early part of the 1700's state this (soon after the Khalsa panth was established). If you don't follow traditions, then I take it you haven't kept kes, don't wear a dastaar and use the name Singh for fun only.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xylitol Posted August 15, 2007 Report Share Posted August 15, 2007 Balbir Singh ji, What are you saying? that you know more than the Gurus, the bhramgyani sants and mahapurkhs of the various sampradas that come down to us in unbroken lineage from the time of the Guru? more than bhramgyani Bhai Gurdass ji, whose writings were granted the status of Gurbani by Guru Arjan Dev ji? You act like you want to find the truth, and no offense is intended when I say this, you don't seem to have the heart of a true seeker. It seems like you're willing to accept answers confirming your preconceived biases, and not others... no offense. bhul chuk maaf. But you need to really think about the things that you believe if you want to get anywhere on a path where one is supposed to move closer to truth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balbir Singh Posted August 15, 2007 Author Report Share Posted August 15, 2007 Pray Truth for all and say Satsriakal! Dear all and Shaheediyan Jee! Quote "Vaheguru Gurmantar was given to the panj pyare by Sri Guru Gobind Singh Ji." Please provide one reference from Sri Guru Gobind Singh Jee. I will be grateful. By the way do Sikhs know what Gurumantra their Gurus gave to the following Gurus and their true Sikhs during their life time? May I ask why the Gurus did not write it in Sri Guru Granth Sahib Jee? Quote "All historical references dating back to the early part of the 1700's state this (soon after the Khalsa panth was established)." Historians can write anything. They may prove that the word Waheguru existed even before oldest scriptures provided their earning is secured. Quote "If you don't follow traditions, then I take it you haven't kept kes, don't wear a dastaar and use the name Singh for fun only...." God is in all though. God illuminates the true Sikh. A true Sikh does not wear any cosmetic to mask. Quote "I take it you haven't taken Khande da amrit." Please do not waste time to search personal information of others. God is nearest within. ************** Quote "What are you saying? that you know more than the Gurus, the bhramgyani sants and mahapurkhs of the various sampradas that come down to us in unbroken lineage from the time of the Guru? more than bhramgyani Bhai Gurdass ji, whose writings were granted the status of Gurbani by Guru Arjan Dev ji?" This is the result of hearing preachers. Quote "You act like you want to find the truth, and no offense is intended when I say this, you don't seem to have the heart of a true seeker. It seems like you're willing to accept answers confirming your preconceived biases, and not others... no offense. bhul chuk maaf. But you need to really think about the things that you believe if you want to get anywhere on a path where one is supposed to move closer to truth." Please do not worry about Balbir Singh. God is caring for him also. ************** Has anyone to say something about the mother of Waahiguroo? I hope many read Sri Guru Granth Sahib Jee with great enthusiasm. Balbir Singh Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balbir Singh Posted August 16, 2007 Author Report Share Posted August 16, 2007 Pray Truth for all and say Satsriakal! Dear all! I am curious. Surprisingly I found so many inquisitive seekers. Let me try to rebuild the question. The word 'Waahiguroo' occurs in Sri Guru Granth Sahib Jee thirteen times. Only Gayand Jee used the word 'Waahiguroo'. It is to read twelve times on Ang 1402 and once on Ang 1403. ਵਾਹਿਗੁਰੂ ਵਾਹਿਗੁਰੂ ਵਾਹਿਗੁਰੂ ਵਾਹਿ ਜੀਉ ॥ वाहिगुरू वाहिगुरू वाहिगुरू वाहि जीउ ॥ "vaahiguroo vaahiguroo vaahiguroo vaahi jee-o." Waahiguroo Waahiguroo Waahiguroo Waahi Jee-o. ਕਵਲ ਨੈਨ ਮਧੁਰ ਬੈਨ ਕੋਟਿ ਸੈਨ ਸੰਗ ਸੋਭ ਕਹਤ ਮਾ ਜਸੋਦ ਜਿਸਹਿ ਦਹੀ ਭਾਤੁ ਖਾਹਿ ਜੀਉ ॥ कवल नैन मधुर बैन कोटि सैन संग सोभ कहत मा जसोद जिसहि दही भातु खाहि जीउ ॥ "kaval nain maDhur bain kot sain sang sobh kahat maa jasod jisahi dahee bhaat khaahi jee-o." SGGS 1402-12 Lotus eyes, sweet speech and embellished with millions of companions mother Jasoda says to whom eat curd and rice Jee-o. In this wonderful praise of Waahiguroo Gayand Jee is adorning Krishna, the incarnation of the Sustainer, Vishnu with His Attributes. My curiosity is to know the Truth. Is Waahiguroo mentioned by Gayand Jee in Sri Guru Granth Sahib Jee is Krishna? Is His mother Jasoda? Balbir Singh Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kam1825 Posted August 16, 2007 Report Share Posted August 16, 2007 Blbir i do not find your questions be curious but rather that of a skeptic trying to undermine the roots of Sikhism. You remind me of Kala Afgana. You do not seem to be the seeker of truth. However i have katha done by Sant Hari Singh Ji done last week in Leicester regarding the Waheguru Mantar. This katha was done due to the latest outrage by the Kala Afgana supporters trying to show that Waheguru Mantar is not the Gurmantar and Satnam is. This katha will be up on gurmatveechar soon. If you are a seeker of truth please be patient and you will gain the truth Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balbir Singh Posted August 16, 2007 Author Report Share Posted August 16, 2007 Pray Truth for all and say Satsriakal! Dear all and Kam1825 Jee! Quote "i do not find your questions be curious but rather that of a skeptic trying to undermine the roots of Sikhism." Wrong. The greatness of true Sikhism is indescribable. The question is about ignorance of some who think they are Sikhs. Quote "You remind me of Kala Afgana." In my view, He urgently needs to know true Simran. Quote "You do not seem to be the seeker of truth." Thanks. I already wear specs. Please ask Hari Singh Jee if he can express his views on this Forum directly or through someone. Balbir Singh Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shaheediyan Posted August 16, 2007 Report Share Posted August 16, 2007 "By the way do Sikhs know what Gurumantra their Gurus gave to the following Gurus and their true Sikhs during their life time? May I ask why the Gurus did not write it in Sri Guru Granth Sahib Jee?" 2 things - 1 - You ask what Gurmantar Guru Sahiban gave the "true" Sikhs, this has already been answered by the "true Sikh" who Sri Guru Arjun Dev Ji chose to perform the most holy service of writing the Sri Aad Granth Sahib Ji. 2 - Your position is hypocritical, you question the tradition of Satguru giving us Gurmantar (which only you and Kala Afghana dispute), yet you openly beleive that Sri Guru Granth Sahib was given the Gur-Gaddi and is Jagdi Jyot, and also believe Maharaj does indeed contain the holy words of our Guru? Is this belief also not a Sikh "historical" tradition? Please answer this question clearly before moving on. In comparison to your historical arguements against the need for Kirtan and hinting that you know what you were in previous lives, this ridiculous debate takes the biscuit. Kindly stop wasting everyones time, you are not seeking anything, a seeker sometimes accepts correction in the face of evidence, I have never seen you do that on this forum or any other other, you simply entertain your ego. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kam1825 Posted August 16, 2007 Report Share Posted August 16, 2007 Balbir Singh as Sant Hari Singh has done on numerous times, he will answer your ignorance with the bani of Guru Sahib. As you can see on google video they have addressed many silly issues of Afgana's before and your issue has been addressed on a recording which i will put on the net. If you live in Birmingham go and see them in Smethick tonight and they will answer all of your questions Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gupy Posted August 16, 2007 Report Share Posted August 16, 2007 why do you people get so emotional aboutt this question? Answer his question, not deform his character. I'm interested to actually hear some answers here! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balbir Singh Posted August 16, 2007 Author Report Share Posted August 16, 2007 Pray Truth for all and say Satsriakal! Dear all and Shaheediyan Jee! Quote "Your position is hypocritical, you question the tradition of Satguru giving us Gurmantar . . ." Please read my posts carefully. The truth is that Gurus gave Gurumantra but they did not write about it. The question is about Bhai Gurdas Jee. Why did he want to declare Gurumantra in writing? Did he want to run a step ahead of the Gurus? Many years after the demise of Bhai Gurdas Jee Guru Gobind Singh Jee compiled Sri Guru Granth Sahib Jee. Still, He did not mention anywhere the Gurumantra 'Waahiguroo'. Why? Quote "yet you openly beleive that Sri Guru Granth Sahib was given the Gur-Gaddi and is Jagdi Jyot, and also believe Maharaj does indeed contain the holy words of our Guru?" For some Sri Guru Granth Sahib Jee is the Guru because Bhai Prahlad Jee wrote the poem containing the line 'Guroo maanyo Granth'. For me Sri Guru Granth Sahib Jee is the Guru because I enliven it. Also, please come out of this illusion 'Maharaj does indeed contain the holy words of our Guru." The true Guru is universal. Quote "Is this belief also not a Sikh 'historical' tradition?" Only Maya has traditions. All beliefs disappear when Truth rises. ************** Quote from Kam1825 Jee "they will answer all of your questions." Please write those on this forum and oblige. Balbir Singh Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xylitol Posted August 16, 2007 Report Share Posted August 16, 2007 Waheguru is unborn. This is written in Mool Mantr. Therefore Waheguru has no mother. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mekhane'ch Jannat Posted August 16, 2007 Report Share Posted August 16, 2007 Shaheediyan maybe you should read Balbir Paji's posts with an open mind, and not judge him. If you think he is wasting everyones time Kindly do not draw more attention to the thread by posting in it. ANd i don't think anyone has the right to call someone an egotist I find this a vicious attack as Gurubani condemns egosim as a vile disease you are in fact trying to insult and hurt a person because you cannot understand what he is saying, which may in fact be of some use to you. I do not like people who destroy. But it is a sad fact modern people like to destroy others (psychologically) because they are not what they think they should be. Anyways peace To talk from experience is one thing and to talk from learned knowledge is one thing. Learn to look at the meanings behind the exterior. Modern Sikhs even get obssessed with the external words and the ideas of the words themselves. forget your dogma for one minute. Once you see come back to dogma and it will be seen differently, in relation to what is, things change the expression for truth has to keep changing because people hold things and cling to them, they need to be shook out from them. PLease continue with the discussion i am interested to read some more posts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gupy Posted August 16, 2007 Report Share Posted August 16, 2007 so any answer to the question??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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