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HI everyone,

As a sikh i think it is important that the sikhs have a homeland we can call our own since our Gurus sacrificed and faught so much for our freedom, rights and our land, Punjab, which we have now lost to India and Pakistan. We all need a nation and sikhs, for a proud and militant race with a noble history still do not have one yet.

Currently the only option on the table is the Idea of a Khalistan which upon closer inspection seems like a hastily put together Idea in desperation to get a sort of a consolation prize. In my opinion it holds no value and I wanted to know what other intellectual Sikhs thought about it as currently it seems as though the driving force behind the notion of Khalistan is very disorganised and poorly thought out.

Please share with me your thoughts, do you think Khalistan is an acheivable or realistic goal?

Here are my reasons for critisizing the notion of Khalistan:

Punjab is the Sikh homeland and it is here where our religion was born. Sikhism grew to popularity in Punjab in the 16th century in opposition to the Mughal rulers policy for the entire population to submit to Islam. Historically Sikhs resisted forced conversion and faught to defend other religios groups from persecution and submission to Islam also and eventually overthrew the mughal rulers. Punjab was then ruled under sikhs as a secular nation and under the principles of sikh teachings where all faiths and creeds were treated equally and in turn was revered by muslims, hindu's and sikhs alike. So why would sikhs now demand a small portion of Punjab as a country for only Sikhs? This would surely contradict the guru granth sahib which preaches co-existence and tolerence for other religions.

When I think of a Sikh nation, I think of the pride of sikhism. An impressive reflection of Sikh values such as tolerence and freedom which would breed a vibrant, clean, non-currupt, multinational/cultural democratic country consisting of beautiful buildings and beautiful statues.

I hardly think a sikh-only country demanded by narrow minded individuals will be able to acheive this since there will not be a diverse enough population to draw from in order to progress economic, social and urban development.

Sikhs have a legitimate claim to the Whole of the Punjab. The fact that a minority of Punjabi's are sikhs does not mean we cannot claim the whole of Indian Punjab. A sikh country does not mean Sikh-only country, the fact there are many Hindu and Muslim punjabis in India does not mean that they will object to a sikh state if it was secular. I beleive Khalistan will be rejected by the non sikhs but an Independant Punjab has more validity and will be accepted by sikhs and non sikhs alike and therefore increasing the prospect of the state being created. Punjab IS the Sikh homeland PERIOD. An independant Punjab, The Republic of Punjab, will be the Sikh nation which in line with Sikhism will be democratic and secular for all Punjabi, and non punjabi, peoples.

I wanted to bring these things to light and start a discussion with real sikh intellectuals rather than with the ignorant people who are mindlessly calling for a Khalistan. I started a Facebook page to make people more aware of these issues if you'd like to support it please like or share it, link is as follows:

https://www.facebook.com/pages/The-Republic-of-Punjab/642347095799974

thank you, I'll look forward to hearing your responses!

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Hi

In my opinion , I dont think we really understand what we mean by Khalistan . Khalsa means the pure , so we need to create a homeland for the pure , for the people/ minorities who are not getting justice , have to pay x amount of ruppees to get a job, provide a future for the people etc.. These people can be from any background ( black,white,asian,chinese,sikh etc..) its easy saying we want our own homeland , but we need a 10-15 year plan in place now , with details ... who will run the homeland , how they will run it , wheres the funding coming from etc... etc... because at the moment I believe the Sikhs are split ,take a look at the UK Gurudawaras , when a new committee is elected they have there own agenda , not for sarbat dha bhalla , but for income , their own understanding of what sikhs should do and follow rather than following what our Guru ( Sri Guru Granth Sahib ) is telling us.

India has become so corrupt , its become the norm. If you have a bit of wealth , you can more or less do what you want . Firstly I believe you need to have law and order , start with sorting out the Police , so that anyone committing a crime be it big/small that person is punished and doesnt get away by paying off the Police. We need to focus on the "pends" where there main priority is to put food on the table , how will we help them , how can we educate them , the Gurudawras in the Pend no one goes to , if they do they dont sit and listen to diwaans , just go to eat langer. The Giani puts on his loud speaker at 4am and does nitnem , the rest of the day nothing happens especially in the "pends" .

I believe the mentality , thinking of the people must be changed first , they must be educated ... this will be hard task as being set in their ways.

The list is long .......

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Hi

In my opinion , I dont think we really understand what we mean by Khalistan . Khalsa means the pure , so we need to create a homeland for the pure , for the people/ minorities who are not getting justice , have to pay x amount of ruppees to get a job, provide a future for the people etc.. These people can be from any background ( black,white,asian,chinese,sikh etc..) its easy saying we want our own homeland , but we need a 10-15 year plan in place now , with details ... who will run the homeland , how they will run it , wheres the funding coming from etc... etc... because at the moment I believe the Sikhs are split ,take a look at the UK Gurudawaras , when a new committee is elected they have there own agenda , not for sarbat dha bhalla , but for income , their own understanding of what sikhs should do and follow rather than following what our Guru ( Sri Guru Granth Sahib ) is telling us.

India has become so corrupt , its become the norm. If you have a bit of wealth , you can more or less do what you want . Firstly I believe you need to have law and order , start with sorting out the Police , so that anyone committing a crime be it big/small that person is punished and doesnt get away by paying off the Police. We need to focus on the "pends" where there main priority is to put food on the table , how will we help them , how can we educate them , the Gurudawras in the Pend no one goes to , if they do they dont sit and listen to diwaans , just go to eat langer. The Giani puts on his loud speaker at 4am and does nitnem , the rest of the day nothing happens especially in the "pends" .

I believe the mentality , thinking of the people must be changed first , they must be educated ... this will be hard task as being set in their ways.

The list is long .......

Yes I agree, there should be a seperate "anti-corruption" Police force consisting of young people taken from a young age and educated and trained extensively so as to be groomed into un-corruptable law enforcement officers and working in the best interests of Sikhs.

and Gurdhwaras would need educated Gianis who can preach and engage in discussion with people and properly explain the Sikh teachings, the reasons and benefits for living your life in the pure way. I agree the pendu's just go there to eat, its really annoying.

Pls check out and like my facebook page if you are interested in this topic:)

https://www.facebook.com/pages/The-Republic-of-Punjab/642347095799974

Edited by Rayjay

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What is Khalistan?

Before it was conquered by the British and annexed to India Punjab was a soverign state ruled by Sikh Maharaja Ranjit Singh. The nation was governed by Sikh principles and was run as a secular state in accordance to Sikh ideology. Both Hindus and Muslims, as well as other Punjabi minority groups, were included in the Kingdom. The Punjabi people themselves revered the Maharaja for his practices of religious and ethnic equality.

This form of Punjabi unity deteriorated at the time of the India- Pakistan partition and the former Sikh Kingdom was devided and shared between India, Pakistan and Kashmir. The Sikhs were worst effected, left without a nation or homeland to call thier own despite having more claim to the land than the Muslims, who were converted by the Persian invaders, or the Hindus, who were protected by the sikhs and owe the preservence of thier religion in Punjab solely to the Khalsa.

Betrayed and cheated, sentiments of a sikh homeland (Khalistan) started to emerge among the sikh community after much discrimination on the basis of thier religion by thier new hosts, India. The notion of a Khalistan escalated into a militant movement which was countered with strong military action by the Indian government to contain it.

The Sikhs claimed the whole of Indian Punjab for Khalistan and in order to reduce the amount of area/land which could potentially be lost to this movement the Indian government set about destroying the Punjabi identity so that the regions of Punjab where the majority did not identify themselves as Punjabi-speaking could be carved out leaving only the areas with the densest concentration of Punjabi-speaking people to form the new smaller Punjab province.

(A single state consisting of all the Punjabi speaking regions of north west India would mean a relatively large Province with a 60% majority Sikh population and considered a threat to the Indian government)

Government supported Hindu newspapers urged Punjabi-Hindus to declare thier "mother tongue" as Hindi instead of Punjabi on the 1961 census of India. As a result, the regions of Haryana and Himachal Pradesh were falsely represented as having a majority Hindi-speaking population and were carved out the Punjab.

A Khalistan would merely consist of the new manipulated Punjab province in India, a small percentage of the land which is rightfully ours. How could a Sikh ever be pround of this as an acheivement? Is this Justice?

Please see: the Punjabi Suba movement#

Punjabis need to unify on the basis of ethnicity and strengthen the Punjabi Identity again like as was during the rule of Maharaja Ranjit Singh.

The Idea of a soverign Khalistan wedged between two hostile nuclear powers is unrealistic for both defence and economical reasons. It will never be allowed to exist by any Indian government nor would anyone other than Sikhs want it to exist, why would punjabi Hindus want to live in "the Land of the Sikhs"? But to demand Autonomy for the Wider Historical Punjab region in India with the Central Government remaining in India would be an acheivable task via democratic means or even civil disobedience. A secular Homeland for the Sikhs as well as the Punjabi-Hindus and Punjabi-Muslims.

This is a nation we can call our home.

We want Punjab recognised as a seperate country from India (not dissimilar to how Scotland is distinct from England however they still share a government) on the basis of ethnicity, language, culture and most importantly Identity.

Sikhs are Punjabi's not Indian or Khalistani.

please like or share my Facebook page if you are interested in supporting the cause for a Punjabi Republic:

https://www.facebook.com/pages/The-Republic-of-Punjab/642347095799974

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Given our people's characteristics at this time, the idea of having a Sikh run country is a depressing one right now.

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What is Khalistan?

Before it was conquered by the British and annexed to India Punjab was a soverign state ruled by Sikh Maharaja Ranjit Singh. The nation was governed by Sikh principles and was run as a secular state in accordance to Sikh ideology. Both Hindus and Muslims, as well as other Punjabi minority groups, were included in the Kingdom. The Punjabi people themselves revered the Maharaja for his practices of religious and ethnic equality.

This form of Punjabi unity deteriorated at the time of the India- Pakistan partition and the former Sikh Kingdom was devided and shared between India, Pakistan and Kashmir. The Sikhs were worst effected, left without a nation or homeland to call thier own despite having more claim to the land than the Muslims, who were converted by the Persian invaders, or the Hindus, who were protected by the sikhs and owe the preservence of thier religion in Punjab solely to the Khalsa.

Betrayed and cheated, sentiments of a sikh homeland (Khalistan) started to emerge among the sikh community after much discrimination on the basis of thier religion by thier new hosts, India. The notion of a Khalistan escalated into a militant movement which was countered with strong military action by the Indian government to contain it.

The Sikhs claimed the whole of Indian Punjab for Khalistan and in order to reduce the amount of area/land which could potentially be lost to this movement the Indian government set about destroying the Punjabi identity so that the regions of Punjab where the majority did not identify themselves as Punjabi-speaking could be carved out leaving only the areas with the densest concentration of Punjabi-speaking people to form the new smaller Punjab province.

(A single state consisting of all the Punjabi speaking regions of north west India would mean a relatively large Province with a 60% majority Sikh population and considered a threat to the Indian government)

Government supported Hindu newspapers urged Punjabi-Hindus to declare thier "mother tongue" as Hindi instead of Punjabi on the 1961 census of India. As a result, the regions of Haryana and Himachal Pradesh were falsely represented as having a majority Hindi-speaking population and were carved out the Punjab.

A Khalistan would merely consist of the new manipulated Punjab province in India, a small percentage of the land which is rightfully ours. How could a Sikh ever be pround of this as an acheivement? Is this Justice?

Please see: the Punjabi Suba movement#

Punjabis need to unify on the basis of ethnicity and strengthen the Punjabi Identity again like as was during the rule of Maharaja Ranjit Singh.

The Idea of a soverign Khalistan wedged between two hostile nuclear powers is unrealistic for both defence and economical reasons. It will never be allowed to exist by any Indian government nor would anyone other than Sikhs want it to exist, why would punjabi Hindus want to live in "the Land of the Sikhs"? But to demand Autonomy for the Wider Historical Punjab region in India with the Central Government remaining in India would be an acheivable task via democratic means or even civil disobedience. A secular Homeland for the Sikhs as well as the Punjabi-Hindus and Punjabi-Muslims.

This is a nation we can call our home.

We want Punjab recognised as a seperate country from India (not dissimilar to how Scotland is distinct from England however they still share a government) on the basis of ethnicity, language, culture and most importantly Identity.

Sikhs are Punjabi's not Indian or Khalistani.

please like or share my Facebook page if you are interested in supporting the cause for a Punjabi Republic:

https://www.facebook.com/pages/The-Republic-of-Punjab/642347095799974

Do any such newspapers exist contemporarily?

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As a diehard Khalistani I have to say the idea of a Sikhi inspired state fills me with dread.

It is so weird how Sikhs think all their problems will evaporate overnight with independence and that all we will have to worry about is solving world hunger or making the world Sikh lol. What about food security, law and order, defence, economic planning? So many Sikhs are in cloud cuckoo land that I'm glad there are so many level headed Punjabi nationalists in the movement to keep it in the real world.

If we do get our own state it will be a predominantly Punjabi state. That means only those of Punjabi ancestry or parentage/grandparentage will be allowed in. Maybe some others, but it wont be an open door policy. Anything else will lead to annihilation. As you can see by the present immigration level in East Punjab. Does that make us racist? No. Does that make us hypocrites? No. Does that go against our Gurus' teachings? No. Will foreign people/coconuts/lefties/sulleh lovers guilt trip us into getting their way and doing what they want? You bet your ass on it. If you want a multicultural SIkh state why dont you start somewhere else in the world? Punjabis have nowhere else to go and you fundos all say you will rule the whole world one day, so why not start in Southall or Arizona instead.

Which brings me onto another thing. If East Punjab was an independant country, what would it be like? Sikhs are so lost from reality that they think a good thing is a bad thing and vice versa. If any American/African/Asian/European country had the same levels of emigration as EP they would be considered failed states. Yet Sikhs act like leaving EP is great and that it furthers their own future - by laying bricks and shagging poor foreigners. Oh dear oh dear. You want to build a country out of wannabe builders and prostitutes? Go for it.

The irony is that if the Sikh religous and political institutions created an environment where Sikh family life was the norm, something to strive for and economically sustainable then these people wouldn't have had to leave. If they had got married and had 5 kids (with support from the government and community) within one generation our number would have increased to 50 million. If this had carried on for another generation we would have had a 100 million Punjabi Sikhs by 2048. Obviously some would have to emigrate but which country in their right mind would turn away hard working SIkhs?

But no. No we couldnt do it. We guilt tripped the people back home about our supposedly great lives here. They filled their own heads with bizarre fantasies about what their kids would achieve abroad. None of this was tempered by Sikh religous leaders. They sent their kids off and now an entire generation is lost to the construction sites and brothels of the rest of the world. Round of applause! Even the Africans in EP say as much to the Sikhs there lol. Who in their right mind lets people into their country to create 'colonies'? The word is so loaded, but as usual Sikhs decide to just imagine their own reality so devoid of reason it would be funny if it wasnt so damaging.

If you cant even save your own people how can you claim to save the world?

I cant even imagine day to day things being achievable in Khalistan with the number of religous nutters we have. Could you imagine being in something like a nuclear submarine full of Sikhs? Alarms going off, flooding, radioactive leaks and some of the the sailors would be like 'It is all his Hukam, dont worry Guruji will protect me from radiation and drowning!' whilst sitting on their hands and endagering everyone around them. Might sound a bit far fetched but there are enough Sikhs like this that we cant put them in certain situations.

Going back to social problems Khalistan would face, look at the treatment of women. Singhs are indifferent to female infanticide, grooming and women trafficking...... until they have to get married. Then when they cant find a girl for themselves it becomes a massive issue over Sikh women not liking men with beards and turbans. Trust me, women couldnt care less how you look as long as your clean/fit. But if you're ugly on the inside and a selfish idiot who is obsessed with nothing but quasi-holiness and self-gratification then no normal Sikh woman will want to build a future with you. And no amount of prostituting Sikhi abroad will bring in enough goriya for all of you lol.

Add to all this how Sikhs in EP now put statues of Buddha, Jesus, Koranic writings etc next to pictures of our Gurus in their homes. You even see picture of Jesus and Guru Gobind Singh in freshies' cars in the UK. Why? Because 'all paths lead to God'. Oh dear, oh dear, who let that happen? Might sound like a lovely sound bite when trying to ingratiate yourself with your hosts and idols but it's misinterpretation is ruining the very faith you proclaim to love and spread. Go home Khalsa, you're drunk.

If we were to have a Khalistan, it would be a real country in the real world. The question is would Sikhs and Punjabis be willing to work to make it a great place, or does the fantasy of a Sikh country provide some kind of a 'hit' for the addled minds of the average Sikh?

Edited by HSD1

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As a diehard Khalistani I have to say the idea of a Sikhi inspired state fills me with dread.

It is so weird how Sikhs think all their problems will evaporate overnight with independence and that all we will have to worry about is solving world hunger or making the world Sikh lol. What about food security, law and order, defence, economic planning? So many Sikhs are in cloud cuckoo land that I'm glad there are so many level headed Punjabi nationalists in the movement to keep it in the real world.

If we do get our own state it will be a predominantly Punjabi state. That means only those of Punjabi ancestry or parentage/grandparentage will be allowed in. Maybe some others, but it wont be an open door policy. Anything else will lead to annihilation. As you can see by the present immigration level in East Punjab. Does that make us racist? No. Does that make us hypocrites? No. Does that go against our Gurus' teachings? No. Will foreign people/coconuts/lefties/sulleh lovers guilt trip us into getting their way and doing what they want? You bet your ass on it. If you want a multicultural SIkh state why dont you start somewhere else in the world? Punjabis have nowhere else to go and you fundos all say you will rule the whole world one day, so why not start in Southall or Arizona instead.

Which brings me onto another thing. If East Punjab was an independant country, what would it be like? Sikhs are so lost from reality that they think a good thing is a bad thing and vice versa. If any American/African/Asian/European country had the same levels of emigration as EP they would be considered failed states. Yet Sikhs act like leaving EP is great and that it furthers their own future - by laying bricks and shagging poor foreigners. Oh dear oh dear. You want to build a country out of wannabe builders and prostitutes? Go for it.

The irony is that if the Sikh religous and political institutions created an environment where Sikh family life was the norm, something to strive for and economically sustainable then these people wouldn't have had to leave. If they had got married and had 5 kids (with support from the government and community) within one generation our number would have increased to 50 million. If this had carried on for another generation we would have had a 100 million Punjabi Sikhs by 2048. Obviously some would have to emigrate but which country in their right mind would turn away hard working SIkhs?

But no. No we couldnt do it. We guilt tripped the people back home about our supposedly great lives here. They filled their own heads with bizarre fantasies about what their kids would achieve abroad. None of this was tempered by Sikh religous leaders. They sent their kids off and now an entire generation is lost to the construction sites and brothels of the rest of the world. Round of applause! Even the Africans in EP say as much to the Sikhs there lol. Who in their right mind lets people into their country to create 'colonies'? The word is so loaded, but as usual Sikhs decide to just imagine their own reality so devoid of reason it would be funny if it wasnt so damaging.

If you cant even save your own people how can you claim to save the world?

I cant even imagine day to day things being achievable in Khalistan with the number of religous nutters we have. Could you imagine being in something like a nuclear submarine full of Sikhs? Alarms going off, flooding, radioactive leaks and some of the the sailors would be like 'It is all his Hukam, dont worry Guruji will protect me from radiation and drowning!' whilst sitting on their hands and endagering everyone around them. Might sound a bit far fetched but there are enough Sikhs like this that we cant put them in certain situations.

Going back to social problems Khalistan would face, look at the treatment of women. Singhs are indifferent to female infanticide, grooming and women trafficking...... until they have to get married. Then when they cant find a girl for themselves it becomes a massive issue over Sikh women not liking men with beards and turbans. Trust me, women couldnt care less how you look as long as your clean/fit. But if you're ugly on the inside and a selfish idiot who is obsessed with nothing but quasi-holiness and self-gratification then no normal Sikh woman will want to build a future with you. And no amount of prostituting Sikhi abroad will bring in enough goriya for all of you lol.

Add to all this how Sikhs in EP now put statues of Buddha, Jesus, Koranic writings etc next to pictures of our Gurus in their homes. You even see picture of Jesus and Guru Gobind Singh in freshies' cars in the UK. Why? Because 'all paths lead to God'. Oh dear, oh dear, who let that happen? Might sound like a lovely sound bite when trying to ingratiate yourself with your hosts and idols but it's misinterpretation is ruining the very faith you proclaim to love and spread. Go home Khalsa, you're drunk.

If we were to have a Khalistan, it would be a real country in the real world. The question is would Sikhs and Punjabis be willing to work to make it a great place, or does the fantasy of a Sikh country provide some kind of a 'hit' for the addled minds of the average Sikh?

Good point, thats what 'Indians' thought as well. And now look where we all are.

35aki6.jpg

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Could you imagine being in something like a nuclear submarine full of Sikhs? Alarms going off, flooding, radioactive leaks and some of the the sailors would be like 'It is all his Hukam, dont worry Guruji will protect me from radiation and drowning!' whilst sitting on their hands and endagering everyone around them.

Funny and SO true........sadly

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since Sikhs are in North America, Europe and South Asia, these all regions should be taken over and turned in to Khalistan :)

First learn to run a gurudwara properly, then talk about creating a country.

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Present Punjab as Khalistan is not possible with present demographics sikhs were 57%  in 2011 most probably 55% now and will be around or below 50% in 2031 , how will any communitty can rule the nation with such demographics. you have to make that nation secular not   a single religion nation

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5 hours ago, dalsingh101 said:

If it theoretically happened now, it will be the boorish pendu one. Complete with angry, bullying, unsophisticated thugs running around imagining they are following in the footsteps of our 1700s forefathers. 

 

That's my take anyway. 

Dalsingh ji, you always use the word pendu as something disrespectful. Majority of the Sikhs are from pend and have their roots in pend. 

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27 minutes ago, GurpreetKaur said:

Dalsingh ji, you always use the word pendu as something disrespectful. Majority of the Sikhs are from pend and have their roots in pend. 

It's a phrase that encompasses backward, parochial thinking. You don't automatically become a pendu by being from a pend - it's how you think, and plenty of people from towns are pendus too. It's more of a backward frame of mind that doesn't see any bigger picture, wherever the heck a person is from. 

 

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11 hours ago, CdnSikhGirl said:

Making a country based on religion opens up that area to become extremist in its ideology too... Just look at Muslim nations with sharia law. 

The demand for sikh nations starts with Idea that all religions in world have their nations , sikhs too need 1 to protect of sikh communnity worldwide .The best idea is buy an island from a nation and make it  a sikh nation 

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On February 15, 2016 at 6:02 PM, CdnSikhGirl said:

I've seen the usage of the word along with tribal...as in Tribal Pendu thinking... so I assumed it meant backward thinking. I didn't know there was a place associated with it. 

Pend means village. Yea people assume foolish and stupid people are called pendu and it basically originated from the thinking that most of the village people are illiterate. You will never hear that yea that's so shahry( city/town thingy) because city people are considered well educated and whatnot . 

Santa Banta jokes started that way too and it became a mockery to sikh people. Now they have it banned. I would never use term pendu to describe someone with backward thinking or foolish. When I go to India, I will be a pendu too lol

 

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My Nanka village people would make fun of me by calling me a  shahry, because I was brought up in city. Basically, city people are considered too shallow, superficial, not-tough by pendu people.   So I have seen both sides lol

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8 minutes ago, Ragmaala said:

My Nanka village people would make fun of me by calling me a  shahry, because I was brought up in city. Basically, city people are considered too shallow, superficial, not-tough by pendu people.   So I have seen both sides lol

Lol.. I am from pend but went to school in a city and all the shahry people would go oh that's so pendu and one of my Friend had it enough and she gave a huge lecture and after that they thought twice saying anything pendu lol. Yea people do think city people are not tough, since my cousins were unable to handle heat and dirt but tey would always come over to enjoy the scenery 

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1 minute ago, samurai said:

@gurpreet kaur..i think the pendu term is more catered to the egotistical person who belives he knows it all.. its a commom term used in uk for such people.lol..

sharay people get it aswell..trust me..we uk people do not let anyone off..lol

For egotistical person term is Fukra/ Fukri. Lol

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