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Seva Challenge - Chatanga1

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It's a small community here. Maybe 100 or so regulars and of those many are older aunties etc and the younger ones are more students who don't have extra time.  The youngest kids many can't speak Punjabi themselves.

 

So I am stuck with books on Punjabi which are usually just the alphabet and a word for each letter.  Doesn't matter how many times I look at the alphabet it won't help me understand what someone says... It would be like trying to learn English and all you can find is:

A - Apple B - Bat C - cat with a photo of a cat an apple and a bat.  See my point (look at the attached photo - THIS is what I was given when I asked someone at the Gurdwara about learning Punjabi - there is no sentence structure, no vocabulary beyond one word for each letter, no conversational things like common phrases, no verb conjugations etc)? 

01010101.jpg

Edited by Satkirin_Kaur

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100 or more - all you need is one person. It can be hardly be that not a single one amongst the 100 people is able to help you learn Punjabi? The other comitee members for instance or their wives etc.

Edited by amardeep

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For someone who considers himself such an expert at Sikhi, you have not even learned how to be a proper decent human. 

Ok. I'll use you as an example of decency. Lets look at this again. I assert that a person who wishes to study Gurmat in detail needs to have a good understanding of Panjabi. You see this as me saying I have hatred towards Sikh converts and non-Panjabi speakers. hat

I again assert that you need to have a good understanding of Panjabi to understand Gurmat more deeply. You say that I "claim only people who are fluent in Panjabi can understand Gurmat".

Yes, I cannot see that you are good at twisting and exaggeration, or writing outright lies, so I will learn from you on how to be a proper decent human.

 

 Knowing a specific language is not required for spiritual progression...

Who was talking about spiritual progression? I have been talking about Gurmat Gyan and so have you. Now you wish to bring spiritual progression into it?

 

It's me who feels pity for you...

Of course you do, thats why you have constantly twisted and exaggerated my words. Cos you feel "pity". I fear the day you don't pity me.

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Umm the assessment of hatred did not come from you saying that Punjabi is required.

It came from the constant name calling and use of derogatory and degrading explicatives that you always attach along with it - to pretty much every post directed at me.  Some the language used goes well beyond PG. And did I try to retort a few times? Yes but in defence only.

Look back at how you have treated me right from the first PM asking me to leave the forum because of my views that Sikh men and women should have same opportunities.  I believe the name calling used there was 'vulgar' - since then you have posted probably near 100 other degrading things directed at me.  

Nearly every post or message has been dripping with hatred and contempt. And most resort to name calling or misplaced accusations, like the above...  

ALL of my posts directed at you have been in defence ... Even the one where I called you a saap (jokingly) was in direct response to one you had posted just before calling me a LOT worse. I think that might have been the only 'name' I have even called you at all.  

Everyone on the forum can see your absolute hatred and contempt in every single post. 

This is why I feel pity for you.  Hatred destroys people.  

Edited by Satkirin_Kaur

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 And did I try to retort a few times? Yes but in defence only.

I wonder what that did for this spiritual beacon you portray yourself as holding?

 

Look back at how you have treated me right from the first PM asking me to leave the forum because of my views that Sikh men and women should have same opportunities.  Nearly every post or message has been dripping with hatred and contempt. And most resort to name calling or misplaced accusations.  Like the above... 

Misplaced accusations?  Isn't that just you through and through with what you have written above? I asked you to leave, (NOW you admit I asked you, before you were shrieking I told you, well done for telling the truth after denying it so many times), because you wanted to, and you made such a fuss about leaving. It had nothing to do with your views. You twisted it (again a common theme in your posts) into me wanting you to leave because of your views whereas in fact I had said nothing of the kind.

 

I wonder how this spriituality of yours is standing up amongst this deliberate twisted words.

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This topic tells me a lot about what it has been like over the past year or so on this forum. Firstly a non-sensical topic is opened, and even then I humoured her and told her the best way to proceed. She volunteers her email, and even when it isn't solicited, sends it anyway. Then a day or two later sees fits to block me.

All in all, it was a waste of time, when more interesting matters could have been discussed, or even for her, she could have learnt a word or two of Gurmat in that time.

 

Without malice, I blame the admins here, specifically Neo and Amardeep. She was something new to this forum, but quickly became a disruption with her endless repetitive posts, misquoting others and narrow-focused approach of Gurmat. Just because she is a white convert, (I said this at the time as well) she got away with a lot of nonsense on this forum. Nonsense that would not have been tolerated from some other posters here.

How many different topics went the same way after a few posts? It's good to debate, and even fun sometimes, but matters which resulted in some kind of conclusion in topic are revisited in others, along the same arguments.

I hope that Neo and Amardeep learn from this, and stop the forum degenerating as it has done so for the last few months.

 

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Guest

Seems to me chatanga you have been the one relentlessly insulting her when she has not done so to you. What makes you such an expert? I also believe females should be given equal opportunity to do seva. Will you start insulting me now as well?

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Seems to me chatanga you have been the one relentlessly insulting her when she has not done so to you. What makes you such an expert? I also believe females should be given equal opportunity to do seva. Will you start insulting me now as well?

Guest jee - This lady has insulted Gurbani, Sikh Satgurus, Sikh ethic and Sikh Saints. How much respect, do you think she deserves?

Bhul chuk maaf

Edited by paapiman

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Guest

All I have seen her do is challenge certain views on women and she used Gurbani to do so. How is that insulting anything? You however have directly insulted women over and over on this site. Women that our Gurus put on equal level to us.  What is she supposed to do when you are suggesting women are not even fully human, that they are downgrades to males? It's an insult to suggest that our Gurus gave equal rights to Sikh women?? This is first I have heard of this!  Sikhism does NOT put females beneath us. What kind of false information are you spreading anyway? What kind of 'ethic' treats women so lowly?? Gurbani says straight out that we are to all see the divine in each other.  Tell me how much respect YOU deserve saying that women are not even fully human, are half men and a downgrade?  

I know her outside of here on Facebook.  She does not disprespect anyone, she only gets frustrated at how some Singhs treat women and want to give women less rights, less privileges, a lesser position while looking down their noses at them. And believe me, I have been lurking here for awhile, and your lowly views of women are pretty obvious!  Besides suggesting women are not even fully human, you have also made suggestions that women should not be given any authority to make decisions, you have said some pretty deragatory things about women.  And you think YOU deserve respect?!!!!  

Our Gurus did not want this for females.  It's YOU who are insulting Sikhi because of your own chauvenist views.  I'm sorry but I had to come here and comment when I heard about this.  I do not look down on women at all and I actually work in support of young girls group here in Germany.  I have no idea what religion you are following but it's not Sikhi. 

 

 

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Thanks Guri Ji but I can fight my own fights.  He knows inside that what he was saying was wrong.  In fact they all do, they keep spouting this stuff to try to convince themselves. They know I have never done any such thing as paapiman stated.  I revere our Gurus and especially what they did to elevate women and low caste.  To me they are the ones doing the insulting of our Gurus by undermining what they taught about equality. 

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It's a small community here. Maybe 100 or so regulars and of those many are older aunties etc and the younger ones are more students who don't have extra time.  The youngest kids many can't speak Punjabi themselves.

 

So I am stuck with books on Punjabi which are usually just the alphabet and a word for each letter.  Doesn't matter how many times I look at the alphabet it won't help me understand what someone says... It would be like trying to learn English and all you can find is:

A - Apple B - Bat C - cat with a photo of a cat an apple and a bat.  See my point (look at the attached photo - THIS is what I was given when I asked someone at the Gurdwara about learning Punjabi - there is no sentence structure, no vocabulary beyond one word for each letter, no conversational things like common phrases, no verb conjugations etc)? 

01010101.jpg

this is the tough way to learn ...now you married a Punjabi speaking guy..you can ask him to help you converse..dont worry Sat things will get okay..i could speak punjabi but learnt reading directly recognizing alphabets

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satkiran.. if you want i will teach you panjabi...pm me we can exchange number an if you have wotsapp it would b great..i signed on this forum a few months ago but did not post...however ive been following this forum for years..really enjoyed and miss the nirmala tsingh...

its no coincidence your version of gender equality has taken aback many members on this forum..but listen, not that they need me to speak for them,but stop puttin it on likes of chataga... the counter argument could be, well learn panjabi to have a better understanding of history, to an extent bani...not to belittle chataga...

 

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satkiran.. if you want i will teach you panjabi...pm me we can exchange number an if you have wotsapp it would b great..i signed on this forum a few months ago but did not post...however ive been following this forum for years..really enjoyed and miss the nirmala tsingh...

its no coincidence your version of gender equality has taken aback many members on this forum..but listen, not that they need me to speak for them,but stop puttin it on likes of chataga... the counter argument could be, well learn panjabi to have a better understanding of history, to an extent bani...not to belittle chataga...

 

Thats exactly what he was doing... using it to belittle... I'll contact you soon. And thanks!

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Seems to me chatanga you have been the one relentlessly insulting her when she has not done so to you. What makes you such an expert? I also believe females should be given equal opportunity to do seva. Will you start insulting me now as well?

Guest Ji, you are irrelevant as a guest. join the forum and then we can talk

 the counter argument could be, well learn panjabi to have a better understanding of history, to an extent bani...

it's not an argument, it's fact. you want to progress in Sikhi, you need to develop your language skills esp in Panjabi. That doesn't just go for her, it goes for all Sikhs, who wish to enhance their Gurmat Gyan. A good knowledge of Panjabi is essential. You will find on this forum, some topics about learning and advancing our Panjabi language skills, even though we are all Panjabis ourselves.

You see anyone else complaining about learning Panjabi to help them learn about Gurmat? No. And then she comes along, with her "chatanga says western converts have to be fluent in Panjabi nonsense".

I whenever I have time, look through my Panjabi dictionary on my phone to look up and learn new words. For someone who has "studied" Gurmat for 18 years yet can't string a basic Panjabi sentence together tells me that person a) has no intention of advancing her knowledge of Gurmat Gyan in the belief they already know everything or b) they haven't really studied Gurmat for 18 years.

 

 learn panjabi to have a better understanding of history, to an extent bani..

You can learn history in any language, but when it comes to bani the greater your understanding of Panjabi/Persian/Sanskrit/Brij, the better.

 

 

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On 02/11/2015 02:10:38, samurai said:

hhmm paaji...if you want to progress in nanak naam....its not really about language skills...its about connecting to that naam that is not judgemental....

 

Bhaji, we are not talking about Nanak Naam, we are talking about Gurmat Gyan. I agree that Naam is not about language "skills", but your level of Gurmat Gyan will depend on your language "skills".

 

Anyway I hope she shows the same enthusiasm to learn and develop her understanding, as she does for her repetitive long posts here. And she puts the same amount of time into learning that she puts into this forum.

 

But I will also ask you to beware that from my own experience, she tells lies, she exaggerates stuff grossly, she puts herself forward as a victim.

 

But I wish you the best of luck teaching her, and her in learning.

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I'm not sure where your Punjabi level is so I'll post some more resources

  • Balupdesh, teaches Gurmukhi. You can listen to the recording and read from the pothi at the same time, match your voice to the recording. In this way you will be able to read fluently really really quickly (I've done this) http://gursevak.com/downloads They are looking for sevadars to help with English translations so the resources on site will hopefully be even more updated in the future. 
  • Giani Thakur Singh ji's katha is purposefully done in simple Punjabi. You can listen and ask a Punjabi speaker about words you don't understand. 
  • On sikhsangat.com the poster PJS has posted lots of English translations of katha from Baba Isher Singh ji. You can listen to those kathas and then compare your understanding with the english translation (which is usually paraphrased and not word for word translation). 

I've used these methods to help myself and bit by bit improved my knowledge of not only Punjabi, but Gurmat as well. For me it was a way to learn without being bored. 

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1 hour ago, Xylitol said:

I'm not sure where your Punjabi level is so I'll post some more resources

  • Balupdesh, teaches Gurmukhi. You can listen to the recording and read from the pothi at the same time, match your voice to the recording. In this way you will be able to read fluently really really quickly (I've done this) http://gursevak.com/downloads They are looking for sevadars to help with English translations so the resources on site will hopefully be even more updated in the future. 
  • Giani Thakur Singh ji's katha is purposefully done in simple Punjabi. You can listen and ask a Punjabi speaker about words you don't understand. 
  • On sikhsangat.com the poster PJS has posted lots of English translations of katha from Baba Isher Singh ji. You can listen to those kathas and then compare your understanding with the english translation (which is usually paraphrased and not word for word translation). 

I've used these methods to help myself and bit by bit improved my knowledge of not only Punjabi, but Gurmat as well. For me it was a way to learn without being bored. 

She knows zero punjabi.

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Quoting Asatkiran "You think I sit here by myself without any exposure to those who do speak Punjabi? You think I am just blindly accepting translations? Sorry to say that's not true. Not only am I devout in attending the Gurdwara here, which is 99% Punjabi, majority who can read Gurmukhi, but I am also on the executive for said Gurdwara. So it's not like my whole exposure to Sikhi is based on internet.  In fact, majority of my exposure to Sikhi is in real life. "

from this topic on the 21st July.

compare that with what she said in this topic.

On 24/10/2015 at 9:22 PM, Satkirin_Kaur said:

It's a small community here. Maybe 100 or so regulars and of those many are older aunties etc and the younger ones are more students who don't have extra time.  The youngest kids many can't speak Punjabi themselves.

 

Its clear she is devious and manipulative. She can use the Gurdwara and sangat to claim she has access to Panjabi, and then claims the opposite.

 

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