intrigued

Guru Sahib did. The Gurus are 1 jot with 12 forms
ਬਾਣੀ ਗੁਰੂ ਗੁਰੂ ਹੈ ਬਾਣੀ ਵਿਚਿ ਬਾਣੀ ਅੰਮ੍ਰਿਤੁ ਸਾਰੇ ॥
The Word, the Bani is Guru, and Guru is the Bani. Within the Bani, the Ambrosial Nectar is contained.
Where does it say that in 52 hukams. Guru Sahib had no hate
Miri Piri. Focus less on outside qualities, more on inside qualities

Is the goal of Sikhs to have a large number? Or to have a large number of TRUE Sikhs...

Wahegurooo!
Dhan Dhan Baba Ji di kamai bahut zyada hai , kehan sunan to bahar , we can’t even imagine 🙏🏽🙏🏽
 
There was a sangi of Baba Ishar Singh Ji who wanted to have darshan of Baba Deep Singh ji. He wouldn’t let go of baba ji and also had lots of bhagti. Eventually, Baba ji told him how to have darshan. Baba ji said go to Baba Mitt Singh ji Nihang. The sikh went to Baba Miit Singh ji, but baba ji would not let him nearby. Finally, the sikh said I have been sent by Baba Ishar Singh ji. Baba Mitt Singh ji said acha, then sit close to us, and told him to close his eyes. When sikh opened his eyes , Baba Deep Singh ji was in front of him, in full tej prakash and jalal which was unbearable. Baba Mitt Singh ji came back to his original form. Sikh bowed down. Fir baba mitt singh ji ne keha ke acha (baba ishar singh ji val ishara karke) ke oh saade parde kholda hai, hun asi vi tainu kuch dasde haan baba ishar singh ji baare. Oh ohne jinna ne sanu bnaya hai....jdo oh ishnaan krde hon ta ohna di vakhi te nishan hoyega jive kise ne khanjar marya hunda...”.   Then Sikh had darshan ...

This sakhi I heard from a Nanaksar Pathi, there was more in sakhi, but samajdar nu ishara kafi hai... 
I heard personal experiences of three other people directly from their mouth who confirmed what was indicated in above sakhi. 
 
Dhan Dhan Baba ji 🙏🏽🙏🏽🙏🏽🙏🏽

No. Only those who have the book can verify it.
Come on, scan the pages for the readers.
ALMOST all stanzas. Why not post the whole sakhi? And why is the fourth stanza cut out? What is the 11th stanza about since its left out?
Mate you are running around in circles. Its gettting way too childish and too weird for me.
 
I dont think you are used to doing research with other people.  Thats why you turn things into competions and bring the levels down for the most parts.. Normally when two people do khoj, they look at the original text, see what it says, look at ways to understand and translate. See how it fits with others etc... Seems like you are not used to this - you see it as a competion - who can bring up the best argument and theory... It does'nt look like you're interested in knowing the truth.. It just looks like you enjoy seeing your posts being published and hearing yourself talk.....
Challo, keep debating with yourself.

You CANNOT separate Chaupai Sahib and Sri Charitropakhyan 

From Chaupai Sahib...

Also 

From Chaupai Sahib

"The Granth where the fallacies of kings, ministers, and women are described"...

^ To the people who claim that Sri Charitropakhyan is sexist.... 

Sikhkoj you only have one source! ONE SOURCE and you think that every other source is wrong. Ever source we will bring you will say "I debunked this I debunked that I'm the debunker" and now you have Satkiran and mrsingh defending your every word.
Good job for your koj sikhkoj we should give you a cookie.

Maharaja Ranjit Singh was ensnared by the wiles of a courtesan and fell for her. Her influence over him enabled traitors to enter the raj and reach very high levels. Consequently, at a key period in Sikh history these traitors conspired with the British and betrayed the raj. The raj fell. As a result every single Sikh man, woman, and child was affected, not just for that generation, but for all generations to come. Besides oppressing the people, the British destroyed the Sikh school system which was one of the best in the world and promoted independent though. That school system has never been recovered, as can be seen by the pendu mentality of many of our people. The British also spread propaganda and worked at creating divisions within our panth, including divisions regarding our Guru Granth Sahib ji and other scriptures and historically important writings. The consequences of one man not have read and understood the Charitropakhyan continue to affect the worldwide panth to this day.

Does anyone remember the story where Bhagat Kabir Ji asked Mata Loi to explain what a woman's charitar mean ? Mata Ji said she would explain in due time.
Then Mata Loi Ji played a charitar. The story goes... two devotess came to visit Bhagat Ji. Bhagat Ji was not at home. There was a stick & a rope lying down. Devotees asked what were those for. Mata Ji said Bhagat ji ties his devotees with rope & beats them up. Devotees were scared & walked away. Bhagat Ji came home, and inquired about the rope & stick. Mata Ji said those two devotees left it. Bhagat ji took the rope & stick and went after devotees. Devotees saw Bhagat ji after them,  they thought Bhagat ji was going to beat them up, they started running away even faster and eventually ran away. Bhagat Ji returned and asked Mata ji , what was all that.
Mata Ji replied that was a minor charitari, not even a charitar. thus giving a hint into the more dangerous charitars that can be played. Bhagat Ji said ram ram, I am satisfied with your answer.

Charitarpakhiyan means shades or types of characters. Only those morons call it "wiles of women" in order to further their agenda.
It is like Aesops fables but with a more intense message. It talks about good and bad characters/characteristics of people. It is not aimed at degrading women (as that liar Asatkirin has claimed ) just as Aesops fables aren't saying that all  "Hares" in this world are not good for nothing, show-offy, arrogant things (which I can see in Sikh-khoj bless him).
It was their characteristics that Aesop told in order to educate humans. Gurbani also uses animal characteristics to educate humans.
Now why should/could Guru Ji write about this? If any of you had heard the story about Kalyig when he took his roop and confronted Guru Nanak, he was holding his tongue in one hand and his penis in the other. Kalyug was demonstrating to Guru Ji that in this era these two senses would be so strong that humans would not be able to confront or control them. To me CharitarPakhyan is just an extension of the spiritual (miri)teaching in Gurbani, in a more social, political (piri)form. It talks about the weaknesses of men and women, and the bravery and astuteness of both genders as well.
Then there is the sakhi of Bhagat Faird, who was confronted by the prostitute in his village about whether his beard was better than the dog's tail. Bhagat Ji only answered her on his death-bed and and her questioning why the delay in answering, Bhagat Ji replied that "this mann is so fickle, who knows whether it could have resisted". If you have heard the sakhi you will know what I'm taalking about.
My Vidya Guru also told me about this type of stuff and about how the rarest of men are able to control themselves in these situations.

Actually, an incredible number of Sikhs do sangat with sants, especially in India. I'm not sure if it is the majority, but it might be. 
Maharaj's updesh, through Gurbani and through granths commissioned by him encompasses all areas of life. Maharaj had an immense project ongoing in his court wherein scholars were busy translating ancient granths into common languages. 

I was at a nihang taksal and they give santheya of Sri charitarpkhyian to bibi's as well. So Satkiran please don't think that only males read it. There are many instances as well that male treachery are accounted for in Sri charitarpkhyian. The name of Sri charitarpkhyian actually means the wiles of humans. 

This is in reply to material posted by a Guest in other thread. I will speak from personal experience and my personal beliefs in Guru Ji. I do not care about the authenticity of Charitropakhyan from historical perspective. Since, the Chaupai Sahib is well approved by all the Panth, Charitropakhyan comes along with it. Baba Nand Singh ji took the rehraas from Hazoor Sahib, which includes the dohra about 405 Charitars. If there was anything controversial , Baba Ji will not have approved it. That alone is enough for me personally to have faith in words of Guru and Sant Mahapurush, I will not  change that at any cost, no matter how many historical sources this and that you provide me.
There are two questions that I would like to address, and some questions that I would like to ask Anti-charitropakhyan people in the end.
1) How can Guru Gobind Singh Ji write erotica ?
2) If this is bani, why is it not read in front of sangat in diwans ?
 
Ans 1 : Can Guru Ji write erotica ? It really is the fault of those who view it as erotica. When they make such a statement, they are basically assuming that Guru ji is on the same mental level as them. They assume that Guru Ji is affected by Lust, that Guru Ji will get excited when they will write such erotic material or tales. They assume that Guru ji like us find the form of woman attractive or get desires just like them. These people view Guru as a normal human being with desires like them. They think that Guru ji finds this material sexy, just like they do. They are making all these assumption based on their human nature. They do not know anything about the nature of their Guru. They are judging Guru based on their limited experience of reality & bondage of sexual desires, and their own insecurity. Just like no one can know about God, no one can know about the Nature of Guru. We can only say he is beyond and beyond. Neo Singh often does a good job in describing such states of non-duality untouched complete awareness, as evident from Akal Ustat.
          Now I will give my own example. I went through medical school. I have touched breasts, I have done manual vaginal physical examinations with my hands touching each and every portion you can imagine, I have done Pap Smear examinations taking samples from the cervix, I have assisted in deliveries of babies and witnessed the tearing & all the emotional drama. I have witnessed the female form in its fullest, deepest & grossest state. I have dissected bodies, penises and vaginas.   Do you know what was the state of my mind during my exposure ?
                        It was neutral. There was no sexual feelings associated with anything at all. Instead the opposite happened. My libido had decreased to zero after doing those pap smears and handling crazy mothers during delivery. I was not excited at all at the sight of breast or female form.  I was just in that state. The atmosphere was very professional & such thoughts never arose. Thus, if someone like me , who is lowly nothing, can experience this state of non-attachment to female body & loss of libido after so much exposure, do you think that Guru Gobind Singh Ji  who is the creator himself, the one who created Maya will be affected when writing sexual descriptive tales.
 
Ans 2 :   If this is bani, why is it not read in front of sangat in diwans ?
Consider this bani as something which is for certain advanced Sikhs who hold positions of great responsibility spiritually and politically, or saints who need to learn the antics of great maya before they can reach their ultimate goal.  Only those who are medical students & Doctors are allowed to witness & perform the procedures on female body that I mentioned above. Not every joe blow can come in and touch a woman's breast. This is years of rigorous training for a transformation of a medical student into a doctor or surgeon. Think of medical student as someone who risen above sexual desires and surgeon as a brahmgyani who reached his final destination.
If you teach this bani to someone who has not even read Guru Granth Sahib or has not even risen above the Lust, it will definitely seem as erotica. And all these people are only projecting their own insecurities , fears and weaknesses through their anti-charitropakhyan stance.
 
3) Why so many graphic details ?
 When you want to bring a piece to life, details are included from a poetic standpoint.  The details of sex positions, the voices of bed squeaking, ejaculation of sperm, deceit, or others etc recreate the scene and bring it to life. If you are getting excited reading this then you have a lot of work to do. Obviously, this was not meant for everyone. If you are getting weak in your knees reading this obviously you need to do a lot of work. Go apply Guru Granth Sahib in your life before you get to reading these so called erotic tales.
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 

Taken from sikhsangat.com
 
325th Charitar missing in Puratan Dasam Granth Bir!
 
Baba Natha Singh Jee was a Nagarchi Singh of Guru Gobind Singh Jee Maharaaj. Guru jee  gave him shastars, sarbloh simrana, kanghaa etc. at Damdama Sahib, Talwandi Sabo before leaving for Nanded. Guru Jee ordered Baba Natha Singh to do parchar in Punjab.
One puratan bir of Guru Granth Sahib and one puratan bir of Dasam Granth Sahib have been found at this place. In the puratan Dasam Granth bir, 325th Charitar of Charitropakhyan is missing.
missing.
 
 
When Guru Gobind Singh ji Maharaj was writing Charitrokhayaan, sitting on banks of Satluj, the weak-minded Masands went to Mata Gujri ji and complained to Mataji about Satguruji’s new rachna, Charitropakhyaan, saying that Maharaj was going against bachans of Guru Nanak Dev ji and was indulging in Ninda of women. Jagat Mata Gujri ji knew her son very well, so she said to Masands that she’ll go and talk to Guruji on this issue. Next day, Mataji went to the place where Maharaj had camped and Charitropakhyaan were being written. Seeing Mata ji, Maharaj got up and bowed his head to Mataji, asking the reason Mataji had come this far. Mataji smiled, looked and Masands, then turned to Maharaj and said ‘'Laal ji ( Mataji never in her life took Maharaj's name), I Heard you are writing Charittars, I dont think human mind is still capable of hearing the Truth, of being able to see the filth it is filled with in mirror of Guru's Shabad''.
Mata ji returned to Anandpur Sahib saying these words, and Guru Gobind Singh ji went into Samadhi for some time. Guru ji has just finished 324th Charittar. Suddenly Maharaj opened his eyes and asked Likhari Singh to be Saavdhaan. Suddenly Maharaj stopped, and asked Likhari Singh to Jump to Charittar 326. Maharaj finished remaining Charittars and after writing 404 Charittar, in the end counted 405 charittars.
Likhari Singh, Bhai Darbari asked,’’ Maharaj,We have written just 404 Charittasr, why have you counted 405 Charittars in the End? And where is 325th Charittar?’’
Guru Gobind Singh ji Maharaj smiled and said Sikha, ‘’ When Mataji left, I decided to write charittar of Maha Maaya, Sri Maya Lachmi ji, the  power of Waheguru which preserves the universe. But Maharaj Akaal purakh stopped me from doing so, as when the Charittar would have been written, Maha-Maaya would have been overcome and finished. Earth, Moon, Sun, Stars, this Universe would have collapsed and there would have been Parlay (doomsday). No one has been able to imagine or explain the vastness of Maya, but I wished to write this Charittar of Maya, which has taken Human beings away from their real-Self, Sri Waheguru ji. Once the Charittar was finished, Maaya would have been rendered weak and helpless, all pure souls would have gone to Sachkhand and world would have ended.’’
Sikhs said, ‘’ Maharaj, Will this charittar be ever written and When’? ‘’Maharaj Said ‘Yes, when we come next time on this world, after finishing evil from this world, Akaal purakh Waheguru ji will complete ‘Sri Kaal ji ki Ustat’ Himself as I don’t have the power to comprehend limit of Waheguru Akaal’s Ustat, and after Akaal Ustat is completed, I will write this 325th Charittar of Maaya, after which, Maya will merge in Waheguru, there will be Maha-Parlay and whole Universe will be destroyed. We will take both Granths (Aad Sri Guru Granth Sahib ji and Sri Dasam Guru Granth Sahib ji) with us to Sachkhand and parkash them there, and we shall all dwell in peace with our beloved gursikhs and when Hukam comes, take the Baani to next creation.’’
Sikhs asked ‘’Maharaj, Why did you wish to write Charittar of MayaLachmi’’?
Maharaj replied, ‘’ Singho, Maaya didn’t wish its game to be revealed, and I was doing it, warning the people of world how it twists human minds to do sin, to walk on path of evil, to go away from Nij-Saroop, Waheguru, to fall in pit of hell, there fore it took Masands to Mataji. But Mataji is beyond the shackles of Maaya, still at the benti of Masands, Mataji had to come. Mataji returned after blessing me, but I was looking at Maaya’s game, how it had entered Our darbar, how the people who were supposed to be Parcharaks of Guru, The Masands, had been corrupted and weakened by Maaya, and if the Maaya had grown so powerful, it was better to finish it, for this reason I wanted to write the charittar. ‘’

Seems like Dakter Ji Phd(Boseton) gets his translations from Bollywood hindi movies.
 

The Rt Hon Doctor karminder dhillon PHD Boston then writes: "The shabd is wholly spiritual. It uses multiple metaphors – marriage, junj, joree, daan, mighty human beings, power full beings etc etc. Guru ji also used IDIOMS. We need to understand the context of these metaphors and get to the spiritual messages. That is how we interpreted the entire Shabd as above.
  This particular verse is NO EXCEPTION.   In English we may say SCORES come and DOZENS go. One score is 20. And one dozen is 12. This means whatever is being referred to comes and goes APLENTY.   IT DOES NOT mean someone particular came in 1820 and went in 1912!!!!   In our everyday language we say SAU AIYE TEY SAU GAYEY. SAU is one hundred. Or TEREY VARGEY KAYEE HAZAAR DEKHEY. Or TEREY VARGEY CHATEE (36) AIYEY.   These numbers are used idiomatically to portray unspecific multitudes. The shabd uses the numbers BOTH idiomatically to portray MULTITIDES and poetically to be within the poetic confines of the verses before and after.   ਆਵਨਿ ਅਠਤਰੈ ਜਾਨਿ ਸਤਾਨਵੈ ਹੋਰੁ ਭੀ ਉਠਸੀ ਮਰਦ ਕਾ ਚੇਲਾ ॥ Avan Athathrey Jaan Satanvey Hor Bhee Uthsee Marad Ka Chela.   Avan – Coming. Athathrey – 78, metaphor for unspecified multiples. Jaan – Goes. Satanvey – 97; metaphor for unspecific multiples. Hor – More, Many, Others. Bhee – Also. Uthsee – Raise, Come to the forefront. Marad – Male, Masculine. Chela – Disciple, Follower, Believer, Worshipper.   Unspecified Multiples Will Come and Multiple More Will Depart as Worshippers of Masculine Prowess. (Yet the Hukm of the Creator Will Remain as Permanent). "     To me, this just sums up the clutching of straws to build up a straw man argument. Using a specific non rounded number is NOT part of everyday talk. We use, and indeed Gurbani uses numbers like a hundred, thousands, and lakhs etc. But it never uses numbers like 78, 97, 146, 2685, 743872 etc. Using rounded numbers to portray a particular aspect or point is normal in any language.   But to try and use "78" and "97" for unspecified numbers is just nonsensical. But those rats like that admin aman on SPN live for this kind of nonsense.     The great doctor then ends with some of his musings on what gurbani should be with : "COMMENT ON THE NOTION OF SARAB SANJHEE BANEE.   When we say Gurbanee is NEVER occasion, location, time or person specific – we are saying the messages are NOT meant for a particular location, occasion, time or individual. We are saying ALL of Gurbani is meant for ALL of humanity for ALL times."   Again this is not bourne out by the inclusion of Ramkali Sadd. Although there is great teachings in that shabad for the benefit of humankind, there is no denying that the writing was an occasion and person specific event.   I wonder why it is, that these PHD's and ilk feel that there is a need to distort each and every aspect of Gurmat to their own particular thoughts. We had Angy on here some months ago doing it, and they have no shame in doing it.

😁 Ok bro I'll try...
Dr. Karminder Singh Dhillion Phd(Boston) then further writes about the whole shabad and towards the end says :
"TWELVETH VERSE
  ਆਵਨਿ ਅਠਤਰੈ ਜਾਨਿ ਸਤਾਨਵੈ ਹੋਰੁ ਭੀ ਉਠਸੀ ਮਰਦ ਕਾ ਚੇਲਾ ॥ Avan Athathrey Jaan Satanvey Hor Bhee Uthsee Marad Ka Chela. Avan – Coming. Athathrey – 78. Jaan – Goes. Satanvey – 97. Hor – More, Many, Others. Bhee – Also. Uthsee – Raise, Come to the forefront. Marad – Male, Masculine, Man-liness. Chela – Disciple, Follower, Subscriber.   This is the verse that has been subject to a great deal of wrong translations. A Commentary is therefore necessary to first critique the existing faulty translations. The (wrong) translation is: Coming in seventy-eight (1578 Sammat, 1521 A.D.), they will depart in ninety-seven (1597 Sammat, 1540 A.D.), and then another disciple of man will rise up. (Sant Singh MD D Translation.) Other translators – Prof Sahib Singh, and Manmohan Singh mention Emperor Babur as coming in 1578 and being defeated by Sher Shah Suree in 1597. The Fareedkot Vedic Teeka says “the Moghuls will come in 1578 and go in 1597 and that the “Mard Ka Chela” refers to Guru Gobind Singh ji.   COMMENT ONE:   All the above translators translate the words ATHUTREY (78) and SATANVEY (97) to mean 1579 and 1597 Bikarmee. How the 15 came to be added is anyone’s guess. Because 15 is NOT mentioned in the Verse, If we want to add 15 on our own, why not 1478 and 1479? Or 1678 and 1679? After “assuming” that 79 and 97 is 1579 and 1597 Sammat respectively the years are then converted by the translators from Bikarmee (Indian calendar) to the western year 1521 and 1540 AD. Then the translators say these are the years Babur came to Saidpur 1521 AD (where the massacre took place) and that Babur WILL GO in 1540 AD."   According to the great daktors thinking, the translation including the "15" is wrong. I can't beleive how Boston is handing out PHD willy nilly. I should get one. The text in Gurbani says 78 and 97 but if we are reading or understanding this 5 centuries later we need to add that "15" to know what time period we are talking about. For example, when we talk about partition now, we can just refer to it as 47. As I ask old people "Where you alive in 47?" Everyone knows that this is a direct reference to 1947 because 2047 hasn't happened yet. But in 500 years time will people still refer to it as 47? No, because it will not be clear. They will refer to it as 1947. The commentators on this line of Gurbani have correctly added the 15 to make it clearer for the reader. So the great PHD doctor starts off on a very weak foot here.   "SEVEN BASIC things are WRONG with such translations.   1) They show Guru Nanak making a PREDICTION of worldly matters (that Babar or Mogul Raj WILL go in 1540 AD). Our Gurus never do such. Predicting the future is not a Gurmat Principle."   Predicting the future for a Sikh is not gurmat principle, but for the Guru it is no effort. Guru Sahib has correctly told of the going of (end of) the moghals. So given that this shabad is focused entirely on an actual historical event, seen in the first person by the Guru, and written about factually by the Guru, it is unable to be refuted by the great PHD doctor karminder that it is against gurmat principles. We Sikhs are not the same as the Guru. Guru Gobind Singh Ji drew his sword and asked for 5 heads. Why don't Sikhs do that same thing now when doing khande ki pahul sinchar? Simple. We are Sikhs, the Guru is the Guru.   "2) Such translations make spiritually rich Gurbani into a ocassion specific “historical” narrative. This is never the nature of Gurbani. Gurbani is SARAB SANJHEE – for ALL ocassion, all persons, all locations etc. Most importantly Gurbani is spiritual."   This has been answered above in the composition of Ramkali Sadd. Ramkali Sadd IS a specific historical narrative. So it is very apparent that Doctor Karminder Dhillon PHD Boston is wrong. The majority of Gurbani is spiritual but not all.   "3) Such translations portray Guru Nanak as inconsistent. The translator says Guru Nanak depicts the “CRUELTY of Babur to innocent women and children” and YET calls BABUR as a MARD !! How is Babur an invader a MARD? And whose CHELA? What’s so MARD about massacring innocent people?"   Mard in persian means "man." That is all. Guru Sahib describes Babar as a man. Nothing else regarding his military prowess, personal habits, political standing etc. Chela means follower. All Guru Sahib is stating here is that one of Babar's followers will take his place.   "4) Such translations makes it seem that Guru Nanak got his history wrong !!!   Babur entered India in 1526 AD. The battle of Panipat took place in 1526. That’s the year he becomes emperor. So the massacre in Saidpur was AFTER 1526.   The year 1521 AD for ATHUTREY by the translator is off by 5 years! How could Guru Nanak have made this mistake?   Babur died on Dec 26 1530. So the year 1540 AD for ATHANVEY (the year Babur left Saidpur !!) is off by 10 years!! He was already in his grave."   The first thing to note here is the Gurbani mentions no names. The line is " ਆਵਨਿ ਅਠਤਰੈ ਜਾਨਿ ਸਤਾਨਵੈ ਹੋਰੁ ਭੀ ਉਠਸੀ ਮਰਦ ਕਾ ਚੇਲਾ ."  There is no reference to Babar in name but as the shabad tells us the "wedding party" came from Khorasan at the same time Babar did, we know it is refering to Babur and his Mongol army. All the Gurbani tells us is that "they came in 78 (1521) and will return in 1540. So this has nothing to do with the lifetime of Babur itself. That is a very important thing to note here. This is where the PHD Boston of Karminder Dhillon has erred.   Babur actually entered Panjab way before in 1519 according to his autobiography. He scored victories and took some land but then had to return to Kabul to quell a rebellion there. His meagre force left in Panjab was then defeated in an uprising. He re-entered Panjab in 1521. The sacking of Saidpur was in 1526. It could hardly be called a battle. There was feeble or no resistance at all. Babur had used Saidpur as a warning to those who stood in his way. he made an example of Saipur to show the rulers of Hindustan his ruthlessness.

Veerji, I would like to humbly put my palms together and make a 'benti' to you to please use the great dakters full name which is Dr. Karminder Singh Dhillon Phd(Boston) so as to not hurt his fragile ego when he reads this.

The great doctor karminder then writes :
"We shall start by looking at the final verse
 
ਸਚ ਕੀ ਬਾਣੀ ਨਾਨਕੁ ਆਖੈ ਸਚੁ ਸੁਣਾਇਸੀ ਸਚ ਕੀ ਬੇਲਾ ॥ ੨ ॥ Sach Kee Banee Nanak Akhey Sach Sunayesee Sach Kee Bella.
Sach – The Creator. Sach Kee Banee – God Connecting Banee. Akhey – Pronounces. Sunayesee – Discourses. Bella – Time. Sach Kee Bella – Creator Given Time; Lifetime as Given by the Creator; ALL times, forever.
Nanak Pronounces God Connecting Banee and Conducts Godly Discourse at every God Given Moment."
 
This is entirely his own interpretation. How do we know this is wrong? Because Guru Sahib conducted his life in as one whole given moment in God. But yet Guru Sahib still slept, travelled, worked etc. During these times how was Guru Sahib conducting Godly discourse? Guru Sahib only conducted Godly discourse at certain times and places.
 
Lets look at Prof Sahib Singh's interpretation:
ਸਚ ਕੀ ਬਾਣੀ = ਸਦਾ ਕਾਇਮ ਰਹਿਣ ਵਾਲੇ ਪ੍ਰਭੂ ਦੀ ਸਿਫ਼ਤ-ਸਾਲਾਹ ਦੀ ਬਾਣੀ। ਆਖੈ = ਆਖਦਾ ਹੈ, ਉਚਾਰਦਾ ਹੈ। ਸੁਣਾਇਸੀ = ਸੁਣਾਂਦਾ ਰਹੇਗਾ, ਉਚਾਰਦਾ ਰਹੇਗਾ, ਆਖਦਾ ਰਹੇਗਾ। ਬੇਲਾ = ਸਮਾ, ਮਨੁੱਖਾ ਜਨਮ ਦਾ ਸਮਾ। ਸਚ ਕੀ ਬੇਲਾ = ਸਿਮਰਨ, ਸਿਫ਼ਤ-ਸਾਲਾਹ ਦਾ ਹੀ ਇਹ ਸਮਾ ਹੈ ॥੨॥੩॥੫॥
(ਜੀਵ ਮਾਇਆ ਦੇ ਰੰਗ ਵਿਚ ਮਸਤ ਹੋ ਕੇ ਉਮਰ ਅਜਾਈਂ ਗਵਾ ਰਹੇ ਹਨ) ਨਾਨਕ ਤਾਂ (ਇਸ ਵੇਲੇ ਭੀ) ਸਦਾ ਕਾਇਮ ਰਹਿਣ ਵਾਲੇ ਪ੍ਰਭੂ ਦੀ ਸਿਫ਼ਤ-ਸਾਲਾਹ ਕਰਦਾ ਹੈ, (ਸਾਰੀ ਉਮਰ ਹੀ) ਇਹ ਸਿਫ਼ਤ-ਸਾਲਾਹ ਕਰਦਾ ਰਹੇਗਾ, ਕਿਉਂਕਿ ਇਹ ਮਨੁੱਖਾ ਜਨਮ ਦਾ ਸਮਾ ਸਿਫ਼ਤ-ਸਾਲਾਹ ਵਾਸਤੇ ਹੀ ਮਿਲਿਆ ਹੈ ॥੨॥੩॥੫॥
 
Faridkoti teeka translates it as :
ਸ੍ਰੀ ਗੁਰੂ ਜੀ ਕਹਤੇ ਹੈਂ ਸਚੇ ਵਾਹਿਗੁਰੂ ਕੀ (ਬਾਣੀ) ਹੁਕਮੁ ਪ੍ਰਮਾਣ ਂਧੁਰਿ ਕੀ ਬਾਣੀ ਆਈਂ (ਸਚ ਕੀ ਬੇਲਾ) ਸਚੇ ਨਾਮੁ ਉਚਾਰਨ ਕੀ ਵੇਲਾ ਸਮੇਂ ਸਵੇਰੇ ਸੋ ਸਚ ਹੀ ਅਸੀ ਸੁਣਾਂਵਦੇ ਹਾਂ ਔ ਸੁਣਾਵੈਂਗੇ॥੨॥੫॥
 
Dr Sant Singh Khalsa in english translates this as :
Nanak speaks the Word of Truth; he proclaims the Truth at this, the right time. ||2||3||5|| 
 
Now what karminder is saying is somewhat based on these but he gives a confused message to the reader. "Nanak Pronounces God Connecting Banee..." since when did Guru Nanak pronounce any bani that wasn't god connecting? karminder is trying to confuse the reader by saying that Guru Sahib at times, prounced gurbani that wasn't god-connecting.
 
 

This is another shabad that has come on the Sick Parasite Network, written by a learned doctor of that site - "Dr Karminder Dhillon." He is a great inspiration to his pet rat aman, who is an admin on that site, and is always looking to host his mentors thoughts on that forum.
I want to have a look at some of this great doctors thoughts and add my own thoughts to it. I will be posting the great doctors thoughts in black and my own in blue so readers can distinguish.
 
Dr Karminder starts by saying " Shabd is composed by Guru Nanak ji in Tilang Rag and is recorded on page 722 of the Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji."
This Shabd stands high on the list of “wrongly translated Shabds."   I always wonder how did the Panth manage to follow the wrong translations for centuries until Sikhs of Dr karminders calibre were born to take us out of the darkness and into the light.   The Shabd is further (wrongly) described as “Babbur Vanee” by many translators. Babbur Vanee means it is composed for and narrated to Mogul conqueror Babur. Babur Vanee further means it predicts the end of the Mogul rule in India.  - Babar Bani is just an informal title given to it, to distinguish it from the other shabads. When we hear the name "Babar Bani" then we understand it to be talking about this particular shabad. That is all. There is no conspiracy. Just as the "Lavan" shabads haven't been given the title of "Lavan Bani" but whenever we talk about the "Lavan" it is clearly understood that we are talking about which shabads. Similarly there are many shabads by Guru Nanak Dev Ji which are addressed with the word "Vanjara" in them. These also are not titled "Vanjara banis" but we understand them to be about the Vanjara shabads of Guru Nanak Dev Ji.   You can see from the above thoughts of the great doctor, the depth of intellect, and the reasons why he is has god-like status on Sick Parasite Network.   Then the great doctor goes on to write "Gurbani is Sarab Sanji; by which is meant it is NEVER occasion, location, era or person specific. This means that while Gurbani is always composed at some location, may be composed to draw from specific occasions, and may be uttered in the presence of person or persons – the composition is NEVER MEANT for any specific location, any particular occasion or for a certain person(s).   ALL of Gurbani is composed for use in ALL locations, ALL occasions, ALL eras and ALL persons. Gurbani is spiritual in nature and meant for the WHOLE of humanity throughout time.   Specifying Gurbani for specific locations, occasions and person(s) is a human failing. It arises from our failure to explore the true spiritual messages of Gurbani. It originates out of our folly of wanting to understand Gurbani only in the literal sense."   Here is the doctor is partially correct. Gurbani is spiritual in nature and meant for the whole of humanity throughout time. However Gurbani is not restricted from, neither does it abandon the "uthanka" or background to such writings. Gurbani has many levels, and the historical aspect of Gurbani is also valid. Coming back on the great doctors thought that Gurbani is never occasion, location era or person specific, I would like to bring these lines of shabads to the reader so they can see if doctor karminder is correct.:   ਫਰੀਦਾ ਪੰਖ ਪਰਾਹੁਣੀ ਦੁਨੀ ਸੁਹਾਵਾ ਬਾਗੁ ॥   Bhagat Farid Ji Maharaj bani starts a lot with "Farida" where he is telling/educating himself. Did BHagat Ji tell these with others in mind? Possibly but the immediate instruction is to himself. So in the first instance this gurbani and many others of Bhagat Ji are person specific. But when we read them are WE telling Bhagat Farid what he must do, in order to find God?"   ਆਸਾ ਮਹਲਾ ੫ ॥
Aasaa, Fifth Mehla:
 
ਪ੍ਰਥਮੇ ਮਤਾ ਜਿ ਪਤ੍ਰੀ ਚਲਾਵਉ ॥
First, they advised me to send a letter.
 
ਦੁਤੀਏ ਮਤਾ ਦੁਇ ਮਾਨੁਖ ਪਹੁਚਾਵਉ ॥
Second, they advised me to send two men.
 
ਤ੍ਰਿਤੀਏ ਮਤਾ ਕਿਛੁ ਕਰਉ ਉਪਾਇਆ ॥
Third, they advised me to make the effort and do something.
 
ਮੈ ਸਭੁ ਕਿਛੁ ਛੋਡਿ ਪ੍ਰਭ ਤੁਹੀ ਧਿਆਇਆ ॥੧॥
But I have renounced everything, and I meditate only on You, God. ||1||
 
This shabad by Guru Arjan Dev Ji Maharaj is person specific. Which Sikh who has read this shabad sent a letter and then subsequently two men? To whom did he send them?
 
 
ਕਹਤ ਨਾਮਦੇਉ ਸੁਨਹੁ ਤਿਲੋਚਨ ਬਾਲਕੁ ਪਾਲਨ ਪਉਢੀਅਲੇ ॥
Says Naam Dayv, listen, O Trilochan: the child is laid down in the cradle.
 
ਅੰਤਰਿ ਬਾਹਰਿ ਕਾਜ ਬਿਰੂਧੀ ਚੀਤੁ ਸੁ ਬਾਰਿਕ ਰਾਖੀਅਲੇ ॥੪॥੧॥
Its mother is at work, inside and outside, but she holds her child in her thoughts. ||4||1||
 
Here Bhagat Ji is addressing Bhagat Trilochan directly.
It's still a lesson that we as humans use, but the fact is that it is not addressed to us all at that specific time. It was specifically to one person.
 
ਮੇਰੇ ਸਿਖ ਸੁਣਹੁ ਪੁਤ ਭਾਈਹੋ ਮੇਰੈ ਹਰਿ ਭਾਣਾ ਆਉ ਮੈ ਪਾਸਿ ਜੀਉ ॥
Listen O my Sikhs, my children and Siblings of Destiny; it is my Lord's Will that I must now go to Him.
 
ਹਰਿ ਭਾਣਾ ਗੁਰ ਭਾਇਆ ਮੇਰਾ ਹਰਿ ਪ੍ਰਭੁ ਕਰੇ ਸਾਬਾਸਿ ਜੀਉ ॥
The Guru gladly accepted the Lord's Will, and my Lord God applauded Him.
 
So when we read the above lines from Ramkali Sadd, are we assuming the title and rank of Guru? Or is it Sunder saying it for a specific moment in the Guru's Life?
 
From the above few lines it is apparent that Gurbani does not share Doctor karminders views of what gurbani should be.