Trimandeep Singh

TAKEN FROM
WWW.GURMATBIBEK.COM
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Sarbloh Bibek - People who don't keep Sarbloh but have High Avastha
What about People who don't keep Sarbloh but have High Avastha?

Original Text: ਨਾਮ ਦੀ ਤਨਕ ਮਾਤਰ ਟਕੋਰ ਲਗਣ ਨਾਲ ਜੋ ਕਚ-ਬਿਰਤੀਏ ਹੋਰਸ ਸਰਬ ਰਹਿਤਾਂ ਬਹਿਤਾਂ ਨੂੰ ਛਡਿ ਬਹਿੰਦੇ ਹਨ, ਬੁਸ ਉਹਨਾਂ ਦੀ ਓਹ ਕਿਣਕੇ ਮਾਤ੍ਰ ਕਮਾਈ ਓਥੇ ਦੀ ਓਥੇ ਹੀ (ਥਾਂਓ ਦੀ ਥਾਂਓ ਹੀ) ਖੜੋ ਜਾਂਦੀ ਹੈ। ਗੁਰਸਿਖੀ ਦੀ ਰਹਿਤ ਰਹਿਣੀ ਦੇ ਅਸੂਲ ਪਰੇ ਤੋਂ ਪਰੇ ਹਨ ਅਤੇ ਏਹਨਾਂ ਸਰਬ ਅਸੂਲਾਂ ਦਾ ਕਮਾਉਣਾ ਬਿਬੇਕ ਕਰਨੀ ਅਰਥਾਤ ਗੁਰਮਤਿ ਬਿਬੇਕ ਹੈ। (Gurmat Bibek, page 259).
Humble Translation: People with unripe-concentration, who after a mild stroke of Naam give up other Rehits and styles (Bahit), their little bit of Kamaaee (spiritual earning) stays stuck there. The Rehits and styles of Gursikhi are beyond of the beyond and to earn all principles (of Gurmat) is called Bibek Karni i.e. Gurmat Bibek.
Vichaar: Sometimes, due to massive Bhagti from previous lives or other spiritual reasons, some individuals experience mystical spiritual states without keeping full Rehit. Some fortunate ones like Bibi Nand Kaur (sister of Bhai Gurdeep Singh Ranglay Sajjan) experienced Jyot Vigaasi Avastha even before Amrit Chhak. This was because of her Dasam-Duaari brother's wish to have her sister experience Guru Sahib's Kala. But this does not mean that Rehit and other Hukams of Guru Sahib should be ignored, nor did Bibi Nand Kaur ignore to take Amrit and keep Rehit. She did take Amrit later on. If such fortunate individuals who have high mystical experiences due to previous Kamaayee, don't obey Hukams of Guru Sahib and keep Rehit, their mystical experiences either stop getting enhanced or totally cease to occur, as previous Kamaayee fades out. This is based on a writing of Bhai Sahib Randhir Singh jee. He has written that a Sikh should strive to obey all Hukams of Guru Sahib.
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Well, the opinion of Bhai sahib Randhir Singh Ji on high avastha gursikhs who keep less Rehat is absolutely on point. However, the motive of this article (written by X gursikh) was to prove that without sarbloh, one cannot reach brahmgyan.
I do not completely agree with this because Nanaksar Mahapurush were not strict sarblohis and as per my knowledge, ate from non Sikhs also. Not sure of this but they did reach brahmgyani avastha. But 'Khalse di Roti Beti di Saanjh Khalse Naal' is mandatory Rehat of Guru Gobind Singh Ji.
@paapiman @Ragmaala Was Baba Nand Singh Ji a sarblohi? Did he also eat from the hands non amritdharis? 
Trimandeep Singh 

TAKEN FROM 
WWW.GURMATBIBEK.COM
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Sarbloh Bibek - How bad it is to not keep Sarbloh Bibek
How bad it is to not keep Sarbloh Bibek
Original Text: ਕੈਸੀ ਅਚਰਜ ਅਣਹੋਣੀ ਅਤੇ ਨਾਕਾਬਲਿ ਬਰਦਾਸ਼ਤ ਵਾਰਤਾ ਹੈ ਕਿ ਗੁੜ੍ਹਤੀ ਅੰਮ੍ਰਿਤ ਦੀ ਸਾਨੂੰ ਸਰਬ ਲੋਹ ਵਿਚ ਮਿਲੇ, ਗਫੇ ਅੰਮ੍ਰਿਤ ਭੋਜਨ ਦੇ ਸਾਨੂੰ ਸਰਬ ਲੋਹ ਵਿਖੇ ਦਿਤੇ ਜਾਣ ਅਤੇ ਕਰਦ ਭੇਟ ਦੁਆਰਾ ਭੁੰਚਣ ਯੋਗ ਪ੍ਰਸ਼ਾਦ ਨੂੰ ਅੰਮ੍ਰਿਤ ਭੋਜਨ ਕਰਕੇ, ਅੰਮ੍ਰਿਤ ਛਕੇ ਜਾਣ ਦੀ ਸਿਖਛਾ ਸਿਖਾਈ ਸ਼ਰਧਾਈ ਜਾਵੇ।… ਪਰੰਤੂ ਅੰਮ੍ਰਿਤ ਮੰਡਲ ਤੋਂ ਬਾਹਰ ਨਿਕਸਣ ਸਾਰ ਹੀ ਓਹੋ ਪਿਤਲ ਕਾਂਸੀ! ਕੀ ਏਹ ਐਨ ਐਸੀ ਘ੍ਰਿਣਾ ਯੋਗ ਗੱਲ ਨਹੀਂ ਜੈਸੇ ਕਿ ਅੰਮ੍ਰਿਤ ਦਾ ਬੁੱਤਾ ਪੂਰਿਆ ਅਤੇ ਏਹ ਬੁੱਤਾ ਪੂਰਾ ਕਰਨ ਸਮੇਂ ਕਛਹਿਰਾ ਸਜਾਈ ਰਖਿਆ, ਫੇਰ ਉਤਾਰ ਘਤਿਆ ਅਤੇ ਓਹੋ ਧੋਤੀ, ਤੰਬੀ, ਲੰਗੋਟੀ।
ਜੈਸੇ ਕਿ ਅੰਮ੍ਰਿਤ ਛਕਕੇ ਕਛਹਿਰੇ ਦੇ ਥਾਉਂ ਆਨਮਤੀ ਦੀ ਨਿਆਈ ਬਹੁੜ ਧੋਤੀਪੋਸ਼ ਹੋਣਾ ਗੁਰਸਿਖੀ ਦੀ ਖਾਲਸ ਰਹਿਤ ਰਹਿਣੀ ਨੂੰ ਲੀਕ ਲਾਉਣਾ ਹੈ ਤੈਸੀ ਹੀ ਅੰਮ੍ਰਿਤਧਾਰੀ ਹੋਕੇ ਅਤੇ ਓਤਪੋਤ ਪੂਰਨ ਸਰਬ ਲੋਹੀ ਸਿੰਘ ਖਾਲਸਾ ਬੀਰ ਬਹਾਦਰ ਬਣਕੇ ਬਾਹੁੜ ਕਾਂਸੀ ਪਿਤਲ ਆਦਿ ਆਨਮਤੀ ਰੀਤ ਗਹਿਕੇ, ਖਾਲਸਈ ਸੂਰਬੀਰਤਾ ਨੂੰ ਲਾਜ ਲਾਉਣਾ ਹੈ। (Gurmat Bibek, Page 252)
Humble Translation: What an astonishing and intolerable incident it is that we get our Gudti (first sweet substance that is administered to a newborn child) of Amrit in Sarbloh, morsels (Gaffe) of Amrit-food (Degh) we receive in Sarbloh and through Kirpan we are taught to turn eatable food into Amrit food … but as soon as we get out of the Amrit Sinchaar Mandal (place), we start using same aluminium and brass! Is this action not just as despicable (hate-worthy) as wearing the Kachhera to fulfill the task of getting Amrit and then removing the Kachhera and wearing same Dhoti, Tambi and Langoti.
Just as after receiving Amrit, removing Kachhera and becoming Dhoti-wearing is dishonouring the pure Rehit and conduct of Gursikhi, same way, after becoming Amritdhari and becoming Sarblohi Singh Khalsa Bir Bahadur, adopting ways of Aanmati (non-Sikhs) e.g. again using aluminium and brass etc. is dishonouring the Khalsa gallantry or fortitude.
Vichaar: This is a very significant passage from Bhai Sahib’s writings, and very strongly in favour of keeping Sarbloh Bibek. Bhai Sahib has equated not keeping Sarbloh Bibek to not wearing Kachhera after becoming Amritdhari. Furthermore, we see that Bhai Sahib has called using other metals for cooking extremely despicable or hate-worthy or loathsome (ਘ੍ਰਿਣਾ ਯੋਗ). This is coming from such person who had reached great zeniths of Sikh mysticism and one who had received Akali-Jyot Saroopi Darshan of the doer of this universe – Vaheguru. Now we can see why Bhai Sahib held on to the Rehit of Sarbloh Bibek even in extremely difficult conditions in jail. Bhai Sahib showed to the world that a Sikh by the Kirpa of Guru Sahib, can keep Rehit under all conditions. If Sarbloh was an optional Rehit, what was the need for Bhai Sahib to go through such hardships? The bottomline is that Sarbloh and all other Rehits of Guru Sahib are a must for a Gursikh who is serious of getting somewhere spiritually.
The emphasis at this time is being placed on Sarbloh Bibek because a lot of Panth today has forgotten and ignored this important Rehit. If Rehits like 5 Kakaars or 4 Bajjar Kurehits had been in similar situation as Sarbloh Bibek, the emphasis would have been placed on these Rehits as well. All Rehits are important for a Gursikh to follow.
 
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This was the most convincing point for me to believe that Sarbloh is the  mandatory Rehat of Khalsa.
Trimandeep Singh 

TAKEN FROM 
WWW.GURMATBIBEK.COM
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Sarbloh Bibek - Sarbloh Rehit as Important as 5 Kakaars
Sarbloh Rehit as Important as 5 Kakaars
Original Text: ਸਾਨੂੰ ਅਤਿਅੰਤ ਅਫਸੋਸ ਨਾਲ ਕਹਿਣਾ ਪੈਂਦਾ ਹੈ ਕਿ ਅਸਾਡੇ ਬਹੁਤ ਸਾਰੇ ਅੰਮ੍ਰਿਤ ਪ੍ਰਚਾਰਕ ਜਥਿਆਂ ਨੇ ਭੀ ਸਰਬ ਲੋਹ ਦੀ ਸਾਰ ਮੁਖੀ ਸਾਰ ਨਹੀਂ ਜਾਣੀ ਨਹੀਂ ਤਾਂ ਪੰਜ ਕਕਾਰਾਂ ਦੀ ਨਿਆਈ ਸਰਬ ਲੋਹ ਦੀ ਰਹਿਤ ਦ੍ਰਿੜਾਵਣ ਲਈ ਭੀ ਜ਼ੋਰ ਦਿਤਾ ਜਾਂਦਾ। ਪਰੰਤੂ ਉਕਤ ਅੰਮ੍ਰਿਤ ਪ੍ਰਚਾਰਕਾਂ ਵਲੋਂ ਸਰਬ ਲੋਹ ਦੀ ਰਹਿਤ ਦਾ ਸਪਸ਼ਟ ਤੌਰ ਤੇ ਨ ਦ੍ਰਿੜਾਇਆ ਜਾਣਾ ਏਸ ਗੱਲ ਦਾ ਸਬੂਤ ਨਹੀਂ ਕਿ ਸਰਬ ਲੋਹ ਗੁਰਮਤਿ ਅਸੂਲ ਹੀ ਨਹੀਂ। (Gurmat Bibek, Page 252)
Humble Translation: We have to say this with extreme disappointment that a lot of our Amrit Administering Jathas too have not recognized the supreme importance of Sarbloh otherwise, similar to Punj Kakaars, on the Rehit of Sarbloh too an emphasis would have been applied. But the failure by the aforementioned Amrit Preachers, to clearly preach the Rehit of Sarbloh, is not a proof that Sarbloh is not a Gurmat principle.
Vichaar: In the above passage Bhai Sahib Randhir Singh jee has made it clear that Sarbloh Bibek is a very important Gurmat principle and just because it is not widely preached and followed, is not a proof that it's not a Rehit of Guru Sahib or that we can choose to ignore it. Wearing Dastaar is a Hukam of Guru Sahib but a majority of Sikh women don't wear a Dastaar and from this we should not deduce that wearing a Dastaar is not mandatory for women. Bhai Sahib is clearly saying that Sarbloh Bibek is just as important as wearing Kakaars is.
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Trimandeep Singh 

VERY INSPIRING AND MOTIVATING POST BY A GURSIKH ON SARBLOH.
THIS GURISKH WROTE THIS AS AN ADVICE TO A PERSON WHO WAS NOT ABLE TO FIGHT KAAM (LUST). 
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Now why daas is telling to do this
Here is the reason deen duniya de malak guru gobind singh ordained sikhs to keep sarbloh bibek
Reason. - SARBLOH (PURE IRON) is immune from kalyug., SarBloh is the ONLY WEAKNESS OF KALYUG
READ this dasam granth ki bani.
Sarb kaal ki sada rachymne humne
Sarbloh ki sada rachya humne
The god is my protector
The all iron lord is forever my PROTECTOR
READ SARBLOH GRANTH. IN that sarbloh all iron lord came and saved devtas from daint
as we know this whole world is maya
Kalyug has the only one way to enter humans
That is through food
Food eaten is plastic aluminuim steel is devastting to health but collects negative energy from atmosphere that is kalyug
Thats y the whole world is suferung from DISEASES MENTALLY AND PHYSICALLY
REMEMBER if give full pehra of sarblob and nothing else from outside u are immune from panj chor
FOODS ALLOWED
Cheru, Havis Annam, milk, wheat, barley, bread, ghee, butter, dried ginger, green gram, potatoes, dates, plantains, curd, almonds and fruits are all Sattvic articles of food. Cheru is a mixture of boiled white rice, ghee, white sugar and milk. Havis Annam is also a similar preparation. This is very useful for spiritual aspirants. Milk is a perfect food by itself, containing as it does, the different nutritive constituents in a well balanced proportion. T Fruits are great energy producers. Bananas, grapes, sweet oranges, apples, pomegranates and mangoes are wholesome and nutritious. Dry fruits such as grapes, raisins, dates and figs, sweet fresh fruits such as bananas, mangoes, Sapotas, melons, limes, pineapples, apples, wood apples and sweet pomegranates, sugar and sugar-candy, honey, sago, arrowroot, milk, butter and ghee tender coconut water, coconut, almonds, pistachio nuts, Toor Dhal, Ragi, barley, maize, wheat, rice of red paddy whose bran is only partly removed and rice of good smell or sweet taste, and all preparations from any of these grains, and white pumpkin are Sattvic articles..
Foods NOT ALLOWED (FORBIDDEN)
Highly seasoned dishes, hot curries, Chutnies, chillies, meat, fish, eggs, tobacco, liquor, sour articles, oil of all kinds, garlic, onions, bitter things, sour curd, stale food, acids, astringents, pungent stuffs, roasted things, over-ripe FRUITSs, are not at all beneficial. Onions and garlic are worse than meat. . , sprouted grains, ll sorts of chillies, Things fried in oil or ghee, pickles of all sorts, fried rice, , tea, coffee, cocoa, all kinds of foods that are dry and burning, foods that are bitter, sour, saline, over-hot and pungent, tobacco and its preparations, foods and drinks containing liquor or narcotic drugs such as opium and bhang, food preparations which are stale or have become cold subsequent to their removal from the hearth or which have lost their natural taste, smell, colour or form, or which are remnants after being eaten away by other persons, animals, birds or insects, or which contain dust, hair, straw or other rubbish, are either Rajasic or Tamasic by nature. Lemon juice, rock salt, ginger and white pepper can be used in moderation. No junk fast foods forever
Sant bhindrawale g always ate daal made with salt and ghee..in sarbloh thats it.
Dhan bhai randhir singh g
Kept sarbloh bibek in jail for 16 yrs remember
. When he was shifted to jail
For forty days he didnt eat anything even water
Bcoz there was no iron utensil
Jailor took every measure to extreme to make bhai sahb eat food from other utensil but he didnot
Jailor tied him beat him to death
Broke his FRONT TEETH but he didnot.. After that sarbloh was brought to jail and then bhai sahb prepared food and ate
Now.
U can think there might be SOME VERYY VERY
STRONG REASON BEHIND SARBLOH
ONE THING DAAS CAN DEFINETLY SAY
SIKH WILL NEVER PROGRESS to extraordinary hight in SPRITUALLITY without sarbloh
Like singhs in past used to have like sant bhindrawale h bhai randhir singh g

These are some of the reasons daas know
There mighe be million reasons
Only dasmesh pita guru gobind singh knows
AFFECT OF BANI ON sarbloh.
We all know bani is energy and it has a effect on water making it amrit
Its greatest affect is on iron
Thats y satguru made amrit in sarbloh bata
We know iron gets charged as it contain magnetic property
Khalsa g with bani recited on iron it gets heavilly charged
Now IMAGINE BANI RECITED ON A SIKH whos wholle body is every part even minutest part
His whole body made of iron
What would be the effect on such person
Think??
Eating in sarbloh one will feel in about 2 months that his or her concentration is marvelous just like a laser light no mind wavering
So a sikh can recite bani with concentration

Iron attracts OXYGEN LIFE GIVING GAS
Now imagine just think IRON in every pore of gursikh carrying full oxygen in every part of body and to brain especially in full mode
Needed for. Peaceful meditative mind
A sarblohi can run 50km without any stress because of full blow of oxygen to body amazing the worldly people how he can do that
Iron makes the negative paarticles convert to postive hence protecting body
U can see the whole world uses chemicalls
Pesticides fertillizers killing millions
Who will save us from this??
Answer- sarbloh..
. Thanks to sarbloh a precious gift from my lord damesh pita
Bardoalam shaha guru gobind singh
Shahe shehansha guru gobind singh
Khalsa g this is all dass personal experience
One should tie hightend dastar bunga and keep SARBLOB CHAKAR (ROUND PURE IRON DISC) AND SHARP KNIFE ON HEAD same reason for protection from kalyugi forces sprtuall attacts
Same reason food made in sarbloh utensil is immune from panj chor and doot of kalyug
The problem is now a days nobody knows this
All are following there own bibeks. Because some bad forces forces are trying to kill sikhi sikh kom
They know sikh are powerful beyond imagination
So they took sarbloh from sikhi
SABLOH IS THE BACKBONE OF SIKHI
Sarbloh sikhi di neeh h
IT GIVES HEALTH. Physically and mentally and spritually to sikh kom
Sikh should keep more and more pure iron weapons with him
If not satisfied or any doubt on my words then
Read about sikhs 300 years ago
''each one of them is having body like rock and giant in health and each one is equal to fifty men' '
''it is said behram khan killed wid asses but even if he would come face to face to them (sikhs) even he would bow before them ''
Other one - '' nobody can stand against them
They come roaring to battles it takes no time for them to get battle from hind to sind''
Eh tarrifa san sikh kom dia
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I completely agree with this post except the point garlic and onion are worse than meat. The gursikh who wrote this post was well appreciated but also criticised for mixing ayurvedic philosophy into Gurmat Sarbloh Maryada. Onion and garlic are safe, no harm. 
Trimandeep Singh 

You are right, but please let's just focus on Food Bibek in this topic only.
Thanks
 
Bhul chuk maaf

Daas would also like to expand more on Sarbloh Marayada. I am a moorakh and not at all rehitvaan but I would like to share my knowledge with sangat on this forum.
First of all I would like to name some Gursikh Mahapurush who were strict Sarblohis. All Nihang Samprada Mahapurush, Bhai Sahib Randhir Singh Ji, Dr. Surinder Singh Ji, Sant Jarnail Singh Ji, Taksaal Mahapurakhs, Bau Mal Singh Ji etc. 
Many people think that Sarbloh Rehat means eating food in a sarbloh utensil. But it is far far away from that.
Sarbloh Rehat:
1. Food should be cooked by you or a Rehitvaan Naam Abhiyaasi Gursikh only while reading bani.
2. Before cooking, place should be cleaned to maintain sucham.
3. Outside food not allowed to be consumed. Bhai Chaupa Singh Ji's Rehatnaama states that a Sikh should not have the following people in their rasoi (kitchen) - qurehtia (patit), person who's not wearing dastaar, a gambler, a thief, a smoker/alcoholic, a person wearing cap.
ਗੁਰੂ ਕਾ ਸਿਖ, ਸਰਦਾਰ ਹੋਵੇ, ਸ਼ਾਹੂਕਾਰ ਹੋਵੇ, ਮੁਸੱਦੀ ਹੋਵੇ, ਆਪਣੇ ਲੰਗਰ ਰਸੋਈ ਵਿਚ ਸਿਖ ਰਖੇ। ਹੁਕਈ, ਟੋਪੀਆ, ਭਾਦਣੀ, ਚੋਰ, ਯਾਰ, ਜੂਏਬਾਜ਼, ਕੁਰਹਿਤੀਆ ਨਾ ਰਖੇ। 
(ਰਹਿਤਨਾਮਾ ਭਾਈ ਚੌਪਾ ਸਿੰਘ ਜੀ, ਪੰਨਾ ੮੫)
TRANSALATION:
A guru's Sikh whether he is a leader/chief, businessman or scholar should have only a Sikh in his Langar rasoi (kitchen). He shouldn't have a smoker, cap wearing person, Mona (person with shaved hairs), thief, immoral person, gambler, qurehtia (bemukh/patit/apostate) in his kitchen.
(Bhai Chaupa Singh Ji's Rehatnaama) 
4. Food should be cooked from scratch. Ingredients like salt, pepper, wheat, vegetables, fruits obviously have to be purchased from outside. But breads/creams/sauces need to be made at home.
5. I don't know any sarblohi sangat near me so I don't have much knowledge. Right now I am just keeping the Rehat of not eating from hands of smokers or alcoholics and eat food prepared at home only from scratch. No outside products used. 
When I learn to cook food, then I hope I will be able to become a proper sarblohi singh.
Guru sahib kirpa karan 
Trimandeep Singh 
 

Guru Gobind Singh Ji's bachan on Sarbloh.
Taken from Tapoban.Org
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The Evidence - Sarbloh Rehat Bachan
Singh Sagar Granth is solely based on the life of Guru Gobind Singh Jee written in Brij language following on from the ‘Bilas’ parampara of writings. A copy of this Granth is kept at Moti Bagh Library Patiala ref no 102 it has 250 pages of content.
The evidence of Sarbloh Rehat appears in the 12th chapter of Chamkaur Judh. The Bachan of Sarbloh Rehat is given after meeting Pir Muhammad. Guru Gobind Singh Jee has been recorded to have said the following Vaach-Bachan
ਸ੍ਰੀ ਗੁਰੂ ਜੀ ਵਾਚ ਚੌਪਈ
ਤਬ ਸ੍ਰੀ ਗੁਰ ਇਹ ਵਾਕ ਉਚਾਰੇ ਹਾਲੀ ਜਾ ਜਬ ਖੇਤ ਮਝਾਰੇ I
ਸਰਬ ਲੋਹ ਕੀ ਫਾਲੀ ਭਈ I ਖੇਤ ਲੁਣਨ (ਕੱਟਣਾ) ਦਾਤੀ ਲੋਹ ਲਈ II ੭੭ II
ਗਾਹਿ ਨਾਜੁ ਜਬ ਮਿਣਨੇ ਲਾਰੋ ਮੁੰਦ੍ਰਾ(ਖਾਣਾ) ਲੋਹ ਮੇ ਪਗ ਲਤਾਰੋ I
ਤਾਸ ਤੀਆ ਜਬ ਛੜਨੈਂ ਗਈ I ਮੂਸਲ ਸਿਯਾਂਮ ਲੋਹ ਨਿਰਮਈ II ੭੮ II
ਚੱਕੀ ਲਗੀ ਪੀਸਣੈਂ ਦਾਣੇ I ਕਿੱਲੀ ਲੋਹ ਸਕਲ ਜਗੁ ਜਾਣੇ I
ਮੋਇ ਮੈਦਾ ਜਬ ਤਾਮੁ (ਭਾਂਡਾ) ਬਢਾਇਯੋ I ਸਰਬ ਲੋਹ ਕਾ ਤਵਾ ਤਪਾਇਯੋ II ੭੯ II
ਜਬੈ ਕੀਜੀਐ ਭੇਟ ਕ੍ਰਿਪਾਣਾ I ਤਬ ਹੀ ਹੋਤ ਰਵਾ (ਜਾਇਜ਼) ਯਾਹਿ ਖਾਂਣਾ I
ਜੇ ਜਗ ਮਾਂਹਿ ਮੁਰੀਦ ਹਮਾਰੇ I ਕਰਦ ਫੇਰ ਸਭ ਕਰਤ ਅਹਾਰੇ II ੮੦ II
Here Guru Gobind Singh Jee starts off by illustrating the role of a Farmer in his fields explaining that Sarbloh is the tool to employ for his Khalsa to carry out his routine in the same way a Farmer would use his tool to cut his fields. Guru Jee further explains that food needs to placed in Loh (Iron) and that Loh (Iron) is the medium in which negativity is crushed. Guru Jee also mentions the need to do Kripan Bhet in order to make the food worthy for consumption.
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ਜਬੈ ਕੀਜੀਐ ਭੇਟ ਕ੍ਰਿਪਾਣਾ I ਤਬ ਹੀ ਹੋਤ ਰਵਾ (ਜਾਇਜ਼) ਯਾਹਿ ਖਾਂਣਾ I
@paapiman @Ragmaala here's a bachan of Guru Gobind Singh Ji on doing Kirpan bhet before eating food.
Trimandeep Singh 

Only a sarbloh Kara makes a kakaar. Nowadays, people wear steel, silver and gold karey which is Manmat.
The worst thing is that people don't even know the significance of a Kara. In India, all my classmates (all Hindus) wear a Kara. Even a Muslim friend of mine wears a Kara, lol. But they don't know the logic behind it and just wear it to look cool. 
I remember when I was in 5th standard (I was a pure Manmukh), I would play Kara fight with my friends. We used to spin our karey on the table and the karey used to hit each other (like the famous beyblades games) and the one which keeps spinning in the end wins. 
Guru sahib kirpa karan teh Budhi bakshan 
Trimandeep Singh 

Gurmat Bibek channel just posted a video on paras Kala. They narrate a story of a sinner who became a gursikh and stopped sinning after reading Sri Japji Sahib and Sri Rehraas Sahib everyday. The animation makes it more interesting.
Well done Gurmat Bibek! 
Trimandeep Singh

Bhai sahib, from the knowledge I have received by reading books of Bhai Sahib Randhir Singh Ji, I would say that 'RAM' is a very powerful mantar but cannot take you to Sachkhand.
Only Vaheguru Mantar can take you to Sachkhand. This is because these names are relevant until the creation is not destroyed.
Eg: Ram means one pervading everywhere or omnipresent. When this whole creation (all worlds and universes) will be destroyed someday by Vaheguru Ji, then this 'everywhere' will NOT exist. So 'pervading everywhere' becomes irrelevant. When there no 'everywhere' then who can pervade 'everywhere'.
Another Eg: Gopal means one who sustains this earth/land. When this land will not exist (and all other lands) then 'sustainer of lands' will become irrelevant. There can be no sustainer of land when there is no land.
These mantars are irrelevant when,
ਅਸਟਪਦੀ ॥
Ashtapadee:
ਜਬ ਅਕਾਰੁ ਇਹੁ ਕਛੁ ਨ ਦ੍ਰਿਸਟੇਤਾ ॥
When this world had not yet appeared in any form,
ਪਾਪ ਪੁੰਨ ਤਬ ਕਹ ਤੇ ਹੋਤਾ ॥
who then committed sins and performed good deeds?
ਜਬ ਧਾਰੀ ਆਪਨ ਸੁੰਨ ਸਮਾਧਿ ॥
When the Lord Himself was in Profound Samaadhi,
ਤਬ ਬੈਰ ਬਿਰੋਧ ਕਿਸੁ ਸੰਗਿ ਕਮਾਤਿ ॥
then against whom were hate and jealousy directed?
ਜਬ ਇਸ ਕਾ ਬਰਨੁ ਚਿਹਨੁ ਨ ਜਾਪਤ ॥
When there was no color or shape to be seen,
ਤਬ ਹਰਖ ਸੋਗ ਕਹੁ ਕਿਸਹਿ ਬਿਆਪਤ ॥
then who experienced joy and sorrow?
ਜਬ ਆਪਨ ਆਪ ਆਪਿ ਪਾਰਬ੍ਰਹਮ ॥
When the Supreme Lord Himself was Himself All-in-all,
ਤਬ ਮੋਹ ਕਹਾ ਕਿਸੁ ਹੋਵਤ ਭਰਮ ॥
then where was emotional attachment, and who had doubts?
ਆਪਨ ਖੇਲੁ ਆਪਿ ਵਰਤੀਜਾ ॥
He Himself has staged His own drama;
ਨਾਨਕ ਕਰਨੈਹਾਰੁ ਨ ਦੂਜਾ ॥੧॥
O Nanak, there is no other Creator. ||1||
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Daas will try to post a picture and translation of Bhai Sahib Randhir Singh Ji's vichar on 'Satnaam and Kirtam Naam'.
Trimandeep Singh 

It's Bhai Chaupa Singh Ji's rehatnaama which contains a lot of adulteration.
It also says serve Langar more to Sikhs of Brahman caste. It also says one who gets a female of his household get Amrit is a tankhaiya. So, I mean to say it was may be altered by some false Sikhs who followed Brahman caste system.
Also, on this sehajdhaari SIKH topic, I have come across multiple opinions. Currently, my belief is that anyone who cuts hair cannot call himself a SIKH.
From my meagre understanding, a Sehajdhaari Sikh is someone who wants to become a devoted Amritdhari Sikh. He/she is trying to keep Rehat and follow Gurbani but sometimes, under the influence of Maaya commits bajjar paaps. They demand more time (sehej) to follow the teachings of Gurbani. Means, slowly slowly, with time, they are coming towards the path of spirituality.
Bhul chuk maaf
Trimandeep Singh 

Gursikho, I am neutral on this topic of offering eatables To Guru Granth Sahib Ji.
I just put forward the opinions of Scholars and Gursikhs.
We already know that bhog of degh is gurmat. But if we read opinions of scholars like Giani Harbans Singh Ji on offering of eatables and those of sampradas, then both of their points seem convincing and in line with Gurmat.
I am not against or in favour of this practice.
Trimandeep Singh 

When you asked me this question previously, this was my reply.
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I never said that people from previous three yugs weren't liberated. Guru Nanak Dev Ji gave them their darshan.
Eg: Bhagat Dhroo Ji. After immense meditation on KIRTAM NAAM, he still couldn't get darshan of Vaheguru. Finally he decided that he wouldn't eat anything until he received darshan. Seeing his thirst and devotion, Guru Nanak Dev Ji gave him his darshan and gave him Amrit.
**********
Bhul chuk maaf
Trimandeep Singh 
 

@paapiman I will just ask you these questions which can help in further debate and move from one sub topic to another in a systematic way. You can also ask.
Q1. Do you agree purpose of human life is to do bhagti and get Mukti? 
Q2. Those who get mukti will only land up in Sachkhand right? 
Q3. Without Naam, can anyone get Mukti? 
Q4. If a non Sikh worships Hindu Devi Devte like Shiv Ji, Krishna Ji, Durga Ji etc, then can he get Mukti? 
Q5. Can anyone become Brahmgyani without getting naam? 
Q6. According to you, are Hindu Devi Devte in Sachkhand? 
Q7. If people were already being liberated before coming Of Guru Nanak Dev Ji, then why did he come on earth? 
Q8. What to do you think naam daan is? Is it simply telling someone to recite a mantar or instilling naam within someone through a method? 
Q9. Is there only one Satguru which is Guru Nanak Dev Ji according to Gurbani? Or in Gurbani, Brahmgyanis have also been referred to as Satguru?
Do answer these and ask me also if you want to which can help us in debating. 
Dhanvaad 
Trimandeep Singh 
 

I believe he loves all but gives more love to his bhagats. He loves everyone but it is we who don't want to be with him because we don't realize the reality and think this world is our destination. Also because he loves all, he always gives a second chance to us to do bhagti.
 
I am a moorakh and not at all perfect. And not ALL is Karam.
The karams which you are referring to are Sanchit and Prahlabdh karams. It is because of these karams that some are born poor, some are born with missing body parts etc. The reaction to these karams are our Vartman Karams. And we are JUDGED on the basis of these karams. If we don't have enough naam Kamaayi, then on the basis of all these karams our joon is decided.
We don't realize the reality that Vaheguru is everywhere and he's an ocean and the creation is water drops. And because we are living in this illusion, we end up doing bad karams.
ਕਰਮ ਧਰਮ ਤੁਮ੍ਹ ਚਉਪੜਿ ਸਾਜਹੁ ਸਤੁ ਕਰਹੁ ਤੁਮ੍ਹ ਸਾਰੀ ॥
Let righteous actions be your gameboard, and let the truth be your dice.
ਕਾਮੁ ਕ੍ਰੋਧੁ ਲੋਭੁ ਮੋਹੁ ਜੀਤਹੁ ਐਸੀ ਖੇਲ ਹਰਿ ਪਿਆਰੀ ॥੨॥
Conquer sexual desire, anger, greed and worldly attachment; only such a game as this is dear to the Lord. ||2||
Yes, but only rare gursikhs reach their avastha when they just live as a drishta (spectator) and realizes that only Akaal Purakh is the karta (doer) and bhugta (don't know the word).
 
We are noone to judge but the system of Joons (which are based on naam Kamaayi and karams) operates under hukam of Vaheguru.
 
Bhul chuk maaf
Trimandeep Singh 

Oh okay.

1) Great Bhagat. Bhai Gurdaas Ji hasn't made any comparison in the Shabad so, it should be 'Great Bhagat' only. By 'Vadda Bhagat' I think he means that sometimes,  bhagats of Vaheguru too come under 5 vices but this Vadda Bhagat always remained free of maaya (meaning kept doing bhagti with faith).
2) please can you quote pankti? 
Bhul chuk maaf
Trimandeep Singh 

Humbly request you, please read the whole message before ignoring it right away.
Obviously, Daas is not a gyani and neither do I want you to restate it ji. (sarcastically anyways)
 
Ji, Daas wasn't adamant to points given by others. You would have said that in case I ignored them and kept on giving my points only. Others respectfully replied to my views and I did the same. Disagreeing and differences in basic things (which lead to a long debate) doesn't mean I have been disrespectful. I think emotions can't be expressed on an online platform and maybe because of that you had an impression that I was being disrespectful. Daas tried to answer the counter points and by mistake, if I missed,it was not intentional. And I would be humbled if you quote the point, when I was being disrespectful towards others. I would be cautious the next time.
 
I have quoted mostly those panktis which have been used by Bhai Sahib Randhir Singh Ji himself. And meanings provided were not altered according to my Budh. Meanings were pasted directly. 
 
Yes, I commit that I said that I will not post anymore. But the person who was debating (Paapiman Ji) himself said that we were debating respectfully. So, when the other party is agreeing to debate then why do I stop presenting my views? This debate was more of a debate between two persons than many. So I think if both agree, then there's no harm to continue as long as opinions are being presented respectfully.
 
Bhai sahib, you don't need to fold your hands, please. I have not used Gurbani to score debating points. Gurbani not only has paras Kala but also gyaan which we used to support our views. The debate/vichar went long because of difference in basic views.
Eg: we both agree that naam is essential for liberation. But then we discussed who gives naam. Finally when it was concluded Satguru gives naam, then Vichar was done on who is being referred to as Satguru. 
This debate went long and Daas should have stopped right there when so many differences came up. But I realized this a little late and for that, Daas is responsible.
***********************
Daas has reviewed the whole debate again, and I don't think I have been disrespectful but I would say, immature who kept on opening new sub topics before completing the previous one. Still, Daas assures you that respect for all people on this forum in my mind is the same as it was before debate and hope it is the same on the other side. (Please confirm this nahi taan Rehraas Sahib dhyaan naal nhi padha jaana)
Daas asks maafi in case you feel Daas wasn't respectful. I have been reading forums but contributing to a thread was a new thing for me so maybe Daas doesn't know how to express views properly. Daas will keep your points in mind next time.
Edit: @hsingh6 Kirpa kar deyo ji. Tussi guilt vich chhadta Daas nu. Mainu neend ni auni ji 😞
ਮੋਹਿ ਰੈਣਿ ਨ ਵਿਹਾਵੈ ਨੀਦ ਨ ਆਵੈ ਬਿਨੁ ਦੇਖੇ ਗੁਰ ਦਰਬਾਰੇ ਜੀਉ ॥੩॥
Trimandeep Singh 
 

ਬ੍ਰਹਮ ਗਿਆਨੀ ਕੀ ਦ੍ਰਿਸਟਿ ਅੰਮ੍ਰਿਤੁ ਬਰਸੀ ॥
One of the meanings of Amrit is Naam.
ਨਉ ਨਿਧਿ ਅੰਮ੍ਰਿਤੁ ਪ੍ਰਭ ਕਾ ਨਾਮੁ ॥
Bhul chuk maaf
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When I asked you to quote a pankti from Gurbani which supports Brahmgyani giving naam, you replied given as above. To that, I replied,
*******************
In the first pankti, it doesn't say that Brahmgyani can give naam. With the sight or glance of Brahmgyani, one receives amrit varkha (kirpa) of guru sahib to go on the right path.
In second pankti, guru sahib says one receives nine treasures by meditating on naam. One receives everything when one japs naam.
Bhul chuk maaf
Trimandeep Singh 
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Please can you get meanings of the panktis you quoted from any teekas of Panthic Accepted Scholars?
Trimandeep Singh

@paapiman Today. I just read this beautiful pankti and it has solved all my doubts regarding the topic of who is giver of naam and liberation.
ਸਤਿਗੁਰੁ ਦਾਤਾ ਰਾਮ ਨਾਮ ਕਾ ਹੋਰੁ ਦਾਤਾ ਕੋਈ ਨਾਹੀ ॥
The True Guru is the Giver of the Lord's Name. There is no other giver at all.
ਮਨਮੁਖ ਭਗਤਿ ਕਰਹਿ ਬਿਨੁ ਸਤਿਗੁਰ ਵਿਣੁ ਸਤਿਗੁਰ ਭਗਤਿ ਨ ਹੋਈ ਰਾਮ ॥
The self-willed manmukhs practice devotional rituals without the True Guru, but without the True Guru, there is no devotion.
I think now you can believe that even Pooran Brahmgyanis can't give naam to anyone because pankti has cleared, only Satguru which is Guru Nanak Dev Ji can give you naam.
And Satguru is only one 
ਇਕਾ ਬਾਣੀ ਇਕੁ ਗੁਰੁ ਇਕੋ ਸਬਦੁ ਵੀਚਾਰਿ ॥
There is One Bani; there is One Guru; there is one Shabad to contemplate.
And without naam, no-one can get Mukti
ਨਾਮ ਬਿਨਾ ਨਹੀ ਜੀਵਿਆ ਜਾਇ ॥
Without the Naam, I cannot live.
ਨਾਮਹੀਨ ਕਾਲਖ ਮੁਖਿ ਮਾਇਆ ॥
Those who lack the Naam have their faces rubbed in the dirt of Maya.
ਨਾਮ ਬਿਨਾ ਧ੍ਰਿਗੁ ਧ੍ਰਿਗੁ ਜੀਵਾਇਆ ॥੩॥
Without the Naam, cursed, cursed are their lives. ||3||
ਨਾਨਕ ਬਿਨੁ ਨਾਵੈ ਜਮੁ ਮਾਰਸੀ ਅੰਤਿ ਗਇਆ ਪਛੁਤਾਇ ॥੧॥
O Nanak, without the Name, the Messenger of Death punishes them; in the end, they depart regretting and repenting. ||1||
 
I think now we can conclude that for liberation, you need naam which is only with the Satguru, not anyone else. Hence, anyone has to seek the sanctuary of Satguru Nanak Dev Ji to receive naam and do bhagti and finally reach eternal Sachkhand.

Your statements are absolutely absurd.
"Why would He love people more who do naam jaap if He Is All."
Are you saying he loves murderers and rapists and naam abhyaasis equally? He loves all, no doubt in that. But he always keeps laaj of his gursikhs and not a person who commits sins. He always punishes those who slander the Saints. He loves his saints more than anyone else. He loves all but also does justice by punishing us for our sins. 
ਸੰਤਨ ਦੁਖ ਪਾਏ ਤੇ ਦੁਖੀ
He is painful, when He sees His saints in grief
ਸੁਖ ਪਾਏ ਸਾਧੁਨ ਕੇ ਸੁਖੀ ॥
He is happy, when His saints are happy.
"He doesn't judge and we are noone to judge"
He has appointed Dharam Rai to JUDGE us on the basis of our Man Bach Karam (Thoughts, Sayings and Deeds). If he doesn't judge anyone, then how will he punish someone for sinning? However, if you mean his love isn't affected because of religion, caste etc then I am WITH you on this. And yes, WE are noone to judge.
Seriously? We are in the Bandhan of Lakh Chaurasi and Maaya. Only those Bhagti waala Mahapurush are free of Maaya. 
ਬ੍ਰਹਮ ਗਿਆਨੀ ਬੰਧਨ ਤੇ ਮੁਕਤਾ ॥
ਬ੍ਰਹਮਗਿਆਨੀ (ਮਾਇਆ ਦੇ) ਬੰਧਨਾਂ ਤੋਂ ਆਜ਼ਾਦ ਹੁੰਦਾ ਹੈ, 
The God-conscious being is free from entanglements.
"The  judgemental fools who fight each other in gurdwarras over petty egotistical matters are noone to listen to or follow."
I don't think it is wrong to be judgemental as long as we are judging in the light of Gurbani. If we don't judge practices of others, then infiltration of Anti Gurmat practices in Khalsa Panth would be really easy. We should not judge on the basis of irrelevant things but also keep a check in light of Gurmat. Eg judging someone's avastha on the basis of physical/outer Rehat. And fights are obviously not a solution. Healthy Debates with quoting points from Gurbani is needed.
Bhul chuk maaf
Trimandeep Singh 

There are different loks. In Sikhism the highest heaven of all is the realm of truth, Sachkhand. Sachkhand and Karam Khand are intangible and are eternal. The other 3 khands are tangible and can be destroyed. 
According to Hindu scriptures, Swarg is their destination. For Quran, Jannat and for Christianity, Heaven. All of these mats have different concepts. Gurmat says that all of these destinations do exist but are present in Gian Khand. People who go there only enjoy worldly pleasures which are false. In Sachkhand, Gurmukh sees the actual/pargat saroop of Vaheguru. 
For liberation, mats have different concepts. Eg in Buddhism, liberation is when one reaches state of Nirvana. According to Sikhism, Mukti is when one realizes the jot of Vaheguru in himself/ gets darshan of Pargat saroop of Vaheguru.
Bhul chuk maaf
Trimandeep Singh 

I too don't claim of having much knowledge of Gurbani Grammar. Nowadays, I am reading books of jeevan of Mahapurush rather than Gurbani Grammar related books.
However, you can ask your question. If Daas knows something, will tell. 
Trimandeep Singh 

Bhai sahib, we have differences on these things too. So, we should stop here.
Trimandeep Singh 

I don't agree with this. Rehat is universal and not bound to time.
One may not follow Rehat and cut his hair which is clearly a violation of Vaheguru's hukam.
Veerji, I think we should end it here. I think we should stop discussions if others went to Sachkhand or not. We are following guru sahib and we are bound to follow his hukams. So let's focus on ourselves and end this debate. I don't think there's any end to this.
Trimandeep Singh