DSG

if you cant beat them join them .


On a serious note , i will email them , see what they have to say ( they probably wont respond)
but at least they will be made aware , especially with the commonwealth games being hosted in Delhi next year.

my views are that if you look at the "pends" where the average person is just surviving , there main purpose is to put food on the table and provide for their families. When temperatures raise to 46 degrees F , electricity is cut off , water supplies are low , theres no facilities for the average indian , its all about survival. Where as if the government provided facilites , equality for jobs , a sense of purpose for the average indian to wake up and better his/her life then things would be a lot better knowing support is available. Theres no support , no motivation ..if you have the money then your ok as anything in India can be done with money.

Educate the young so they can take responsibility for their own actions , tell them whats right and wrong , on a certain festival ( cant remeber exactly what) they make "Bhang Wale" pakora now average joe blog wont know whats in the pakora until eaten . Wheres the drugs coming from , need to block the source . Certain drugs make you addicted , so at first the dealers offer it for free , and once hooked , theres no stopping unless forced into rehabilitation , again need to stop the source.

If theres no jobs , no support , no motivation , what do you do

a) get out the country
roam around here and there
c) mix in with the wrong crowd ( at least theres something to do)

If you stand up and fight for your rights , since there is so much corruption who can you trust , Police will file false allegations against you if their source of income is threatened and beat you until you are senseless. Where do you go ?, whom do you go to ?
Is it easier and safer just to let things be , just to survive or risk your life to make things better.

I think they need a sense of purpose, importance ..... the so called Gurudawara committees / leaders are more interested in their status and putting down previous committees and now and again they serve Pizza and Chips to draw in the young and youth.

I think that music is key , get the youth to learn music properly from top musicians funded by the gurudawara, give the youth a target for example at the end of the 13/14 weeks of learning either , vaja, stringed instrument, tabla etc.. they will do kirtan on a big scale , hold a massive kirtan smagam where all over the UK are invited to perform , gives them a sense of purpose a sense of direction that they have a goal . so need to practice . The teachers should be at a certain level so they can teach properly , have a big community so the young and youth are learning from a set curriculum , so they can communicate with each / learn from each other regardless of their location and when they get to a certain level get them to teach , i see this can be adopted to sport , learning gurbani and most importantly practicing what our Guru is teaching us.

I went to one of Mata Baljit Kaurs camps at bebe nanki gurudwara handsworth birmingham
Session started at 4am
Basically you do basic exercises like :-
1) stretching
2)jumping
3)kicking with one leg and shouting
4)rolling of the arms 
5) In the background you have light music 
6) You do Waheguru simran
etc.. etc.. hope you get the feel of it
Theres different classes , beginners and advanced ( only went to beginners)
Then near the end , Mata Ji tells Sikh stories/ and about Gurbani . It was quite good I thought

A true inspiration , a role model , a doer - may waheguru keep him and his family in chardi kala
Tina KAur Bains , very touching and yet beautiful how such a soul changed ones life and in fact many with is passion and love for Sikhi. 
A true Gursikh where , all you read is praise upon praise upon raise  and sincere praise... so beautiful 
Penji Khalsa is within you , keep doing what you are doing  to enhance your sikhi , you too will start giving advice with maharaj ji's kirpa 
kwhy mn qU folqw hir mnsw pUrxhwru
Why do you waver, O my mind? The Lord is the Fulfiller of hopes and desires.
 

Reading ( dont laugh)

Bed time stories ( Guru Arjan Dev ji)
Bed time stories ( Guru Tegh Bahadar ji)

by Santokh Singh Jagdev


Problem I have is I cant find any books ( in English) which have "flow" about them when reading especially sikh Sakhis , ( dont know if you know of any good ones) ...they seem to start off good but then break up the flow , trying to capture the scene all goes away hence dont want to carry on reading,

You never know ... tanks, machine guns, chemical weapons , rockets .... commando style .....Its good to know some form of martial arts but  I cant see the average householder especially the elderly showing the culprits their moves " ter lah puth ek mukha set fayre key ... meh ready nee see   LOL Wait my son , throw your punch again i wasnt ready " , I think more like they will be hoping someone comes to their rescue or can be called upon or at least know how to deter the enemy without actually physically engaging with them.
In the London riots , the sikhs got together , there was a sense of unity ... i think that it is what we need , something in place where all come together.  I agree with Dalsingh that its more of a mental game , being strong mentally .

Further info
 
http://sikhpa.com/bomb-attack-on-german-gurdwara-latest-updates/

I saw this yesterday , one very interesting point was that , her grandfathers father was born as Dheru Ram , from Hindu family and it was custom to give one of their chilldren into Sikhi  out of respect due to the sacrifices the Gurus and Singhs made to uphold justice in India , hence her grandfather was Sant Ram and then Sant Singh ... truly amazing.
My father also told me of the sacrifices Sikh Women had to make in order to save them from rape/torture by the muslims ...shocking

The Jatedar said even though the pardon has been revoked it is still open for discussion. ( now what does that mean ) nothing concrete was said by Jatedar Gurbachan Singh . He needs to be questioned to find out who is behind all this , but will he speak up ?

A very humble and great, GurSikh role model . A true sevadar , doing seva from his heart. He also runs Gurmat and kirtan classes for kids.  

Viewing the central news link , its coming across as if the protestors blatently attacked the Gurudwara and that the protestors were not willing to sit down and discuss the resolution with the other party.

Was that the case ?

How come , its always the protestors that get bad name ? I remember the Bezti play at rep theatre in birmigham , with similar outcome .

Why dont the protestors have an interview with the media explaining what issues are ?

Any one else attended the protest , and care to sched any light on what happened ?


If it is the same minority of people stirring up trouble , should the sangat not be made aware ?

The protestors intentions are good , but somehow in the eyes of the media , they are to blame ?

especially in the forth coming events i.e. 5th june , if the turnout is 125,000 what steps are in place to inform the sangat that it MUST be a peacful demonstration so as not to give the Sikhs a bad name , yet again .

Hi

I'll share with you the experience we had when we went to India in February. I'm only focusing on one village in Panjab i.e. Jandialla near Jallandhar.

Quite a while back in this village there was only one Gurudawara which was run by SGPC and was quite a historical Gurudawara( Raiee anna Gurudawara ) and all locals use to go there. Then different communities started fighting ( jaat paath issues / caste issues) then people from different castes started to make their own Gurudwaras ( Today there are many jaat paath Gurudwara in jandialla i.e ravi daas , baal meeki, jatt , ramgarhia etc..)

Today only a few people go to the gurudawara to which there jaat is assocaited with, gurudawaras are empty , the Giani in the morning on their loud speakers recite Japji Sahib , 4-5 Gurudawara doing this simultaneously is something NOT to hear.

Theres one Gurudawara where my parents built based on the request of the community as locals were fighting due to power related issues and personal feuds.

Today the Gur Sikh dping selfless service at this Gurudawara , a true Gur Sikh he is , partially sighted wants to get the youngsters together at this Gurudawara. He explains Gurbani to the youngsters , gets them involved in seva , takes them on trips to Hari mandar sahib, hazoor sahib etc..
He is such a passionate sincere man , whilst we were there he got together about 10 youngsters so our views can be shared with them regarding the benefits of Seva, sikhi etc..

People like this need support , these youngsters want to learn Gurbani , want to learn kirtan but theres no facilities, no funding , no real incentive for the youngsters to go to the gurudawara. Theres this one family who are stopping the local community getting together , people are scared of this family , they have been involved in burgularies,fights, terrorising the locals, been in jail ( not served their full sentence are back out in the community ( how ? due to their contacts with the so called leaders who are corrupt )

The Gur Sikh is doing his utmost best to get these youngsters into the Gurudawara , one good point he made was that when "we" we as in people from UK,USA,CANADA etc.. visit we should do a community program in the Gurudawara , talk to the locals , encourage them support them , give them a sense of motivation. Provide facilities for example Panjabi teachers , music teachers for X amount of years , then the rest the Gur Sikh will do his best to get the youngsters to learn. The hardest part is continuously motivating the youngsters to a point that they want to come to the Gurudawara of their own accord.

I think if facilities are provided , the youngsters will go and learn , do seva but its all about having that regular interaction and funding so that the Gurudawara can be self sufficient .

Hello Punjabee

Like Dalsingh mentioned it was mainly talking punjabi at home , AND having no choice as a kid parents sent me to Punjabi class , where all i remember is oooorahhhh ooooot ( emphasis in the pronunciation) , there wasnt really any inspiration for me to learn punjabi . Then I learnt at Gurudawara , started to read the Gutka , again I cant remember the techniques used and how I got to that point. ( Now i wish i had )

Today my kids learn Punjabi at Gurudawara , there is no structure , i couldnt believe from day one they were writing oorah airrah .... This I felt was completely wrong. Now look at the English alphabet as a kid I was taught to remember abcdefghij...z ....and NOW in reception class kids are taught 5 letters at a time and then sound the words, read and then write them i.e.

SOUND,READ and WRITE

e.g
m a s d t from this you can make basic words m a t ... m a d ... s a d .... s a t and so on. This way the emphasis is on sound getting the phonetics right and once distilled kids can start joining up letters , sounding them and start reading fairly easily.
This method I think is very good and was trying to drill it into the Punjabi class teachers , whether they understood it or not ( I dont know) ...

I read Dals document , which was great and also on you tube theres a series of learning gurmukhi ( from sangat TV) again i thought his method of teaching was like the English one explained above .

From my experience of learning I am a firm believer in getting the Sound right first , then reading and finally writing. There may be different techniques used in different schools , but I havent found any yet other than they teach the orthodox way ( write it , and sound it)

I also think that learning Gurmukhi should be for life and not just at GCSE/A level. Take ENGLISH at the age of 5 - life we use it day in day out , why not the same for Gurmukhi . I dont think it should be about qualification and most importantly I think when learning Gurmukhi at a young age kids should be taught reading and writing the "panj Bania" start off with Japji sahib and slowly progress , so when the child is about 15-16 years he/she knows the panj bania inside out , pronunciation is bang on ...which if they then take the path of Amrit , reading and reciting the Panj Bania will be easy.

Hello Punjabee

Like Dalsingh mentioned it was mainly talking punjabi at home , AND having no choice as a kid parents sent me to Punjabi class , where all i remember is oooorahhhh ooooot ( emphasis in the pronunciation) , there wasnt really any inspiration for me to learn punjabi . Then I learnt at Gurudawara , started to read the Gutka , again I cant remember the techniques used and how I got to that point. ( Now i wish i had )

Today my kids learn Punjabi at Gurudawara , there is no structure , i couldnt believe from day one they were writing oorah airrah .... This I felt was completely wrong. Now look at the English alphabet as a kid I was taught to remember abcdefghij...z ....and NOW in reception class kids are taught 5 letters at a time and then sound the words, read and then write them i.e.

SOUND,READ and WRITE

e.g
m a s d t from this you can make basic words m a t ... m a d ... s a d .... s a t and so on. This way the emphasis is on sound getting the phonetics right and once distilled kids can start joining up letters , sounding them and start reading fairly easily.
This method I think is very good and was trying to drill it into the Punjabi class teachers , whether they understood it or not ( I dont know) ...

I read Dals document , which was great and also on you tube theres a series of learning gurmukhi ( from sangat TV) again i thought his method of teaching was like the English one explained above .

From my experience of learning I am a firm believer in getting the Sound right first , then reading and finally writing. There may be different techniques used in different schools , but I havent found any yet other than they teach the orthodox way ( write it , and sound it)

I also think that learning Gurmukhi should be for life and not just at GCSE/A level. Take ENGLISH at the age of 5 - life we use it day in day out , why not the same for Gurmukhi . I dont think it should be about qualification and most importantly I think when learning Gurmukhi at a young age kids should be taught reading and writing the "panj Bania" start off with Japji sahib and slowly progress , so when the child is about 15-16 years he/she knows the panj bania inside out , pronunciation is bang on ...which if they then take the path of Amrit , reading and reciting the Panj Bania will be easy.

LOL!!! 41 isn't old .............. still young blood
In my opinion , I would do a regular sport that you enjoy and eat right . Its all about eating right. For example , you may play football once or twice a week , and that requires a level of fitness ( so your aim would be to stay fit , stamina wise  and muscle development )
do Cardio work , exercise bike ,  pressups , squats  which require no weights .
Warming up is key
1. do jumping jacks where you spread your legs and clap your hands over your head with stretched arms. Good for warming up the full-body
2.alternate toe touches  standing up , where finger tips touch alternate toes. Good for warming up back , buttock and hamstring
3. Squats , good for warming up quads,hamstring and buttock
4. pressups good for pecs.deltoids,triceps, and upper back
5. seated stretches where your aim is to touch your toes alternately good for hamstrings,groin,spine , back and buttocks
6.thigh stretch , hold foot and pull towards the bum , ( stretches thighs) good for quads and thighs
can start with doing 10 reps then increase slowly to say 20-25. Its recommended 10-15 mins warm , its very hard to do but something is better than nothing hey !!!LOL
 
Obviously older you get , its harder to build muscle and more prone to injury so stretching is crucial before and after training . Its hard to do and is easily missed .
If going for weights , i.e. benchpress, squats , biceps, legs etc... focus more on technique and with light weight don't go or increase weight until you can comfortably do 12-14 reps for about 6 weeks. Then increase slowly. Your body will tell you if you are straining or easily doing the weights , then act accordingly. I would advise not to lift too much heavy weights. Do compound exercises as a must i.e. squats , deadlift ..
Theres plenty of stuff on the internet giving you tips and techniques. Obviously body needs rest so train Monday , rest , train weds, rest , train fri, rest  ....
I believe 80 percent is what you eat , let me add I am no fanatic or an expert just some views I thought I share and if you like them take on board otherwise just disgard them , but the biggest hurdle is starting it , whatever you want to do , start it and stick at it ....... it will take time and you'll notice the benefits .... Next time you know it you'll be 51 but feel like a 21 year old.
Good luck
HTH
 
 

Sword of Tabriz ,
it is quite simple , practice whatever religion you believe , understand the meaning of bani rather than going off topic and "trying" to pick faults
ONLY WAHEGURU knows the truth
ONLY WAHEGURU knows if the bani is suchi
ONLY WAHEGURU knows if we are reciting bani correctly

We on the other hand do our best to understand and practive bani , you could be here all year arguing your point what will it achieve- nothing
if you act on Gurus words , change your inner self , it would be much better

Dont get me wrong i'm no preacher , nor a scholar , keep it simple
there are alot of things we dont know and make alot of assumptions , but the main point being WE NEED TO CLEANSE ourselves , We may have all the knowledge in the world , and prove others wrong this will only feed your ego , BUT if we dont practive and change its worthless

I agree 100% it is wrong mindset , I have been to this Gurudawara in Jalandhar . The thing that shocked me the most was , when I went there the first time 7-8 yrs ago there must have been 20 plus Saroop of Sir Guru Granth Sahib Ji , all doing akand path sahib .
I went there again this April ( still the same ) ….
If you think of it from there perspective , theres nothing there in Punjab for the young and people who want to work. The leaders are corrupt , do get a job , they want bribes . So they turn to this , if some have had visas to go abroad for a better life by donating aeroplanes  & doing ardas at the Gurudawara then a trend is set. The sad thing is the committee should put a stop to this and change their mindset ….

Singh421 does it really matter ?
I don't think so , religion is a personal journey  one trying to make that connection with the almighty , cleanse one self . Its not about looking at whether x,y,z's journey .
Allah is one of many names for the almighty , such as Waheguru, god , parmarthma , purmeshar , rahmeyeeah etc...
In my opinion , you have to contemplate on whether you are feeling inner peace , inner bliss , inner love , for humanity when reading/listening to , trying to understand  Gurbani and try to act on the teachings. Its very hard to do , so many distractions but one must try ...
 

LOL!!! 41 isn't old .............. still young blood
In my opinion , I would do a regular sport that you enjoy and eat right . Its all about eating right. For example , you may play football once or twice a week , and that requires a level of fitness ( so your aim would be to stay fit , stamina wise  and muscle development )
do Cardio work , exercise bike ,  pressups , squats  which require no weights .
Warming up is key
1. do jumping jacks where you spread your legs and clap your hands over your head with stretched arms. Good for warming up the full-body
2.alternate toe touches  standing up , where finger tips touch alternate toes. Good for warming up back , buttock and hamstring
3. Squats , good for warming up quads,hamstring and buttock
4. pressups good for pecs.deltoids,triceps, and upper back
5. seated stretches where your aim is to touch your toes alternately good for hamstrings,groin,spine , back and buttocks
6.thigh stretch , hold foot and pull towards the bum , ( stretches thighs) good for quads and thighs
can start with doing 10 reps then increase slowly to say 20-25. Its recommended 10-15 mins warm , its very hard to do but something is better than nothing hey !!!LOL
 
Obviously older you get , its harder to build muscle and more prone to injury so stretching is crucial before and after training . Its hard to do and is easily missed .
If going for weights , i.e. benchpress, squats , biceps, legs etc... focus more on technique and with light weight don't go or increase weight until you can comfortably do 12-14 reps for about 6 weeks. Then increase slowly. Your body will tell you if you are straining or easily doing the weights , then act accordingly. I would advise not to lift too much heavy weights. Do compound exercises as a must i.e. squats , deadlift ..
Theres plenty of stuff on the internet giving you tips and techniques. Obviously body needs rest so train Monday , rest , train weds, rest , train fri, rest  ....
I believe 80 percent is what you eat , let me add I am no fanatic or an expert just some views I thought I share and if you like them take on board otherwise just disgard them , but the biggest hurdle is starting it , whatever you want to do , start it and stick at it ....... it will take time and you'll notice the benefits .... Next time you know it you'll be 51 but feel like a 21 year old.
Good luck
HTH
 
 

Where is he saying this ? is this recorded anywhere ?
As many , many years ago i went to couple of his diwaans in the UK , he was very good , simple to understand  , motivational  main focus , Attach to the Guru . I didnt judge his personal life  , thats up to him what he does.
My personal view is that there are many people who look like sikh but want sikhi to be abolished , he is not one of them . I think he has a good following and getting bigger , so some start to spread rumours to belittle someone having influence so to stop him/them in their tracks . They feel threatened and want to see their downfall.
 
 

Wow so many replies 
The videos are basically snippets as mentioned before , and his views be they right or wrong it doesnt matter , its like a tennis match , he says something , then the other one , back and forth . 
I'm not a fan of either or defending anyone , but pointing out Sikhi is about  compassion , love , caring .
As mentioned before if he has his own agenda ,anti Sikhi then he will surely pay for it ...... but if the truth needs to be established rather than snippets of videos  they need to confront them face to face . By they I mean people who have Gian and knowledge are on the path themselves. If one refuses , do you stop there ... i dont think so, you have to keep knocking on their door , applying pressure until they do.
If it can be done with tact, with pyar who wouldnt want to listen rather than just getting the boot in from the start.
I'm all for the "truth" and not calling anyone liars . How many here have contacted Ranjit Singh Dhandrianwala about the causes stated in this thread ?
How many here have written to him ?
If this is causing problems in Sikhi , we need to stand up ourselves and educate the sangat , and then post our experiences with the one accused otherwise its just hear say.
I still personally think its progaganda other intelligence forces are playing their part in breaking Sikhi. If a parcharak has been doing good for x many years , joining the sangat then why change all of a sudden , dont make any sense or unless its wahegurus hukam . For arguments sake , if he has dialogue with the sangat/Giani's then I think it needs to be done compassionately so that one realises the truth and makes a U-turn back and  starts doing the good deeds again. Its very easy to break something but very hard to keep intact and its the latter we must focus on.
 

This is a complete joke
The first video not showing the full context just snippets , they can edit anything nowadays and get people to believe anything
Plus this is a good way of knocking someone down who is doing good for Sikhi
We must wake up and judge for ourselves rather than videos like the above. This is all propaganda by some few individuals trying to put him down , as he is waking up the sangat 
Has anyone been to his diwans ?
Ask him directly , if you have concerns i'm sure he will answer them.
We have this problem , cant see someone in the kaum doing well , rumours are spread and be person defamed. Why ???
Why now ???
wHo is behind all of this ??
Have we ever thought about this ?
If he is doing wrong , then he will have to suffer ..., sangat are not that stupid .
Why do you think he has some many followers ?
 
 
 

This is a complete joke
The first video not showing the full context just snippets , they can edit anything nowadays and get people to believe anything
Plus this is a good way of knocking someone down who is doing good for Sikhi
We must wake up and judge for ourselves rather than videos like the above. This is all propaganda by some few individuals trying to put him down , as he is waking up the sangat 
Has anyone been to his diwans ?
Ask him directly , if you have concerns i'm sure he will answer them.
We have this problem , cant see someone in the kaum doing well , rumours are spread and be person defamed. Why ???
Why now ???
wHo is behind all of this ??
Have we ever thought about this ?
If he is doing wrong , then he will have to suffer ..., sangat are not that stupid .
Why do you think he has some many followers ?
 
 
 

Exactly my point , good job you are reading the posts veer ji
Who are the some people ?
How many times have they tried speaking to him ?
On the facebook page , he also says if we all become parcharaks , learn to read Gurbani ourselves , do part ourselves rather than paying for it to be done . is that wrong ?
Come on veer ji , theres always 2 sides to the story not just one.
Is it because they are non the wiser ?
Why only ban his Diwaans in Amritsar if he is doing false parchaar? Why not ban him every where ?
I'll say it again , we need to be more compassionate,loving and caring and get to the truth.
Its like my posts and your posts , you will go anti dhandrianwala , I will be neutral and try to understand why this is being done , some of his comments are probably wrong and should be rectified no issues with that , but we'll just keeping playing that tennis match.. but in fact it needs action , proper investigation , if he dont want to speak then is that it we just leave it , and base all the points on some videos. If at one point he was good and now according to you "his dera is nothing more than a cult now" Why?
Have you every thought he could be hurting from inside , as your probably aware an assasination attempt was made on him last year , his close friend/colleague/follower was shot . Has any justice been done till date ? I'm not aware of any. Hence why i Keep saying , we need to get the full story with pyar before we make any judgement.