amardeep

If only 50 pages of the Dasam Granth are to be considered the writings of Guru Gobind Singh then why werent these 50 pages included into the Guru Granth Sahib when the Guru dictated the Granth Sahib from memory in 1704? Obvisoly the Guru would not be able to add the 1300 page Dasam Granth into the existing 1400+ page Guru Granth Sahib, but a few extra 50 pages of bani would'n be a problem .Why were these kept seperate?

And is there a difference between Japji Sahib and Jap Sahib? Are'nt both to  be respected the same way?

 

If only 50 pages of the Dasam Granth are to be considered the writings of Guru Gobind Singh then why werent these 50 pages included into the Guru Granth Sahib when the Guru dictated the Granth Sahib from memory in 1704? Obvisoly the Guru would not be able to add the 1300 page Dasam Granth into the existing 1400+ page Guru Granth Sahib, but a few extra 50 pages of bani would'n be a problem .Why were these kept seperate?

And is there a difference between Japji Sahib and Jap Sahib? Are'nt both to  be respected the same way?

 

"What is man without a woman? And what is woman without a man?" - Prem Sumarag Granth
"A man who marries more than one women is to be considered the lowest of animals" - Prem Sumarag Granth

The share of other religious groups like Sikhs and Christians in the total population remained steady at a little over 2 per cent each, roughly in the same range as in the 2001 census.
Amardeep ji the full data of 2011 census is still not released .let's wait for it
Religious data' from 2011 Census could throw new light on Punjab
Vibhor Mohan,TNN | Jan 29, 2015, 04.59AM ISTWhatsapp Facebook Google Plus Twitter Email Linkedin Text resize:AAA CHANDIGARH: 'Data about religions' from the 2011 Census, which had been held back, could soon give a new perspective to the conversion debate in Punjab. Existing figures point that there has been no major increase in the number of Christians in the region and the latest figures could put more light on the issue. Besides, it would also give an idea if Sikhs were actually moving towards becoming a minority in Punjab.

Sources said though state-wise figures should have ideally been released earlier, the data could be out after the Delhi assembly elections. There were 2,92,800 Christians in Punjab according to the 2001 Census.

"This particular section of the Census could prove to be sensitive and might have been held back intentionally by the Centre as it is usually released along with figures of scheduled caste and scheduled tribe population in states," said a demography expert.

"There has also been an apprehension that Sikhs could be turning into a minority in Punjab and large-scale migration to other countries and growing population of other communities are being seen as the key reasons. Census data will give a clearer picture of the scenario," added the expert.

The previous census data had revealed that between 1991 and 2001, population of Sikhs in Punjab rose by 18 lakh-an increase of 14%. Hindus increased by 20 lakh-a rise of 28%. In terms of percentage, the increase in Hindu population is double that of the Sikhs. Christians increased from 2.39 lakh to 2.92 lakh in 2001.

The recent conversion row in the border areas of Punjab by RSS had raised the pertinent question whether the population of any of the communities had actually witnessed any major trend in the recent years. Bookmark or read stories offline - Download the TOI appWhatsapp Facebook Google Plus Twitter Email Linkedin ADD A COMMENT Next Story »Deadline extended for regularization of illegal colonies« Prev StoryDRI officials seize 41kg heroin, smuggler arrested WE RECOMMENDIIT-Kharagpur scholar molested, sweeper heldCity'Kidnapped' boy found in Sirsa parkCitySalman, Akshay served notices for misleading cola ad campaignCityCentre seeks data on govt jobs for minoritiesIndiaPROMOTED STORIESRaheem Sterling receives shaky reception after 'disappointing' exit from LiverpooltheScore12-Year-Old Sriram is Fighting Cancer the Second Time and Needs Your HelpMilaap.orgRecommended by MORE IN CITY
 300 women cops join Patna police23 mins ago
Boulders smash cars on Mumbai-Pune Expressway, 2 killed, 4 injured23 mins ago
85-year-old tries to end life in Chennai55 mins ago
Delhi gets first 'Aam Aadmi Clinic', CM says 1000 more in line
Rickshaw driver held for misbehaving with a female journalist outside Kurla Mall
 SECTIONS:TOP STORIES BUY@AMAZON.IN CITY GET THE APP INDIA GOOD GOVERNANCE WORLD CARTOONS BUSINESS ENTERTAINMENT TECH TV SPORTS LIFE & STYLE WATCH LIVE TV MOVIE REVIEWS INFOGRAPHICS PHOTOS TRAVEL MOCKTALE MOST READ OPINION CAMPAIGN VIDEOS More from our network:
ET Mobile Indiatimes Job Search Follo GreetZap Alive Active World ZigWheels Property Search Book Print Ads Astrospeak Hindi News About us Terms of use Desktop version Copyright © Bennett, Coleman & Co. Ltd. All rights reserved.For reprint rights: Times Syndication Service 
BACK T

Lol thats funny.

Haha he is probably just kidding. Punjabi humour can be quite abrupt

Enjoy :) Hopefully the Family is cool again

Hi Y2K

Do you feel any pressure on you? That the Family expects you to convert? Thats not good, people should'n convert out of pressure etc.

The Gita is probably one of the best books i've read. There is a Braj Basha translation and commentary from 1701 translated in the Anandgarh Fort of Anandpur. Most manuscripts attribute it to Guru Gobind Singh himself while some scholars argue it was translated by a darbari poet Krishan Lal.
In any case - throughout the commmentary sections, the translator writes "These teachings also apply to the Khalsa" while towards the end, the author goes "This Gita was translated in the Anandgarh Fort. The teachings provided by Krishna to Arjuna are equally applicable to the Khalsa".
Later on this Gobind Gita was studied in Places such as Multan etc.

I came across several families whose grandfathers and forefathers were Sikhs ..currently they follow Hinduism . Got a colleague with a Sikh lineage is a hardcore smoker and a strong congress loyalty ..had tried to talk to him and the answer was what sewa do sikhs brag about ..the langar halls are full of fat punjabis instead of poor and needy.
I couldnt argue further.

Gurfateh
 
Let us have a discussion on the Afghan Sikhs.
Lets start from scratch. If you know the answers to any of these, - quote the questions and provide yours inputs.
 
What do we know about them? Their history, traditions etc.
 
What is their ethnicity ? (Punjabi, Pashtun, Hazara etc.)

Are there any famous Afghan scholars or mystics of history?
 
What books have they written?

What has been their contribution to the wider panth? Or have they remained isolated?
What was their role during the Durrani Period - were they part of his administration?
 
What was their role during the Misl and Maharaja period?
 
Are there any Mughal, Persian, British or Punjabi mentionings of them in historical writings?
 
My input
 
 
My impression is that they are a mix, probably with a large percentage Punjabi Sikhs whose ancestors settled there 100-200 years ago. It is quite easy to see the difference between the original Pashtun Sikhs and the Punjabis. I've also come across a few Hazara Sikhs with their "Chinese eyes" and limited beard Growth.
Oberoi believes that a large percentage of the indigenous Afghan Sikhs originally converted from Buddhism and Hinduism during Guru Nanakss lifetime. They were the remaining part of those original dwellers of the land that refused to convert to Islam during the many Arab invasions.
I've come across very Little. A British traveler in the 1790s wrote that Hindus of Afghanistan were beginning to convert to Sikhi. Mughal and Persian wise i've come across nothing. There were a few famous Sikhs from Peshawar during the Guru period - I can't recall their names.
This Afghan Singh from London seem to be doing a lot to bring out their history. Here is a reading of one of the Ghazals of Bhai Nand Lal Goya.
 
 

Tirah Sikhs glad at getting status of tribal elders
 
PESHAWAR: Gurmeet Singh ran a grocery store until he along with hundred other members of Sikh community had to leave his native Tirah Valley in Khyber Agency to escape the wrath of slaughtering militants.
The 32-year-old prides himself as a Kukikhel Afridi tribesman but unlike his fellows, he and others of his community had been pushed from pillar to post to get attestation and verification of documents to secure national identity cards.
From 400 to 500 families of around 2,500 Sikhs had to shift lock, stock and barrel to Peshawar due to insecurity, particularly, nearly when a dozen of their community members were kidnapped and killed, some of them beheaded by militants then controlling Tirah.
http://www.dawn.com/news/1193942/

Tirah Sikhs glad at getting status of tribal elders
 
PESHAWAR: Gurmeet Singh ran a grocery store until he along with hundred other members of Sikh community had to leave his native Tirah Valley in Khyber Agency to escape the wrath of slaughtering militants.
The 32-year-old prides himself as a Kukikhel Afridi tribesman but unlike his fellows, he and others of his community had been pushed from pillar to post to get attestation and verification of documents to secure national identity cards.
From 400 to 500 families of around 2,500 Sikhs had to shift lock, stock and barrel to Peshawar due to insecurity, particularly, nearly when a dozen of their community members were kidnapped and killed, some of them beheaded by militants then controlling Tirah.
http://www.dawn.com/news/1193942/

Thank you for your comments MrSingh. I am very glad that your solition is to fight the inner challenges of the Panth, rather than just getting rid of the missionaries. Cause this is the way forward - to solve our issues so its not attractive for people to convert out of SIkhi. The way people do today is to hunt down the Muslim, Hindu and Christian missionaries instead of adressing the reason WHY people want to leave sikhi in the first place.

Hi Y2K

Do you feel any pressure on you? That the Family expects you to convert? Thats not good, people should'n convert out of pressure etc.

Until we merge all biraderi-based Gurdwara's into single united Sangat Gurdwara's in the West and put an end to the associated matrimonial apartheid, Sikhi parchar cannot really be taken seriously by many.
Furthermore, only by accepting sehajdhari Europeans as new Sikhs (rather than insisting on them being Amritdhari in order for us to consider them Sikh) will greater number believe that the values they believe are best described as Sikhi and that they themselves are Sikh. The vast majority of human rights activists, animal rights people, those that helped the fight against Ebola are natural born Sikhs if only they knew it.
 

No in fact it does Paapi man.
Those paapi's like yourself that drink, smoke, eat meat, use drugs, cut their hair are actually the vast overwhelming majority of the Punjab population and an even greater percentage of the​ India population more generally. You wish to exclude and alienate all those that do not mirror your own beliefs as non-Sikhs. The Hindutva forces that oppose Sikhs are delighted by your viewpoint as they mop up every person that you wish to exclude from Sikhi and include them within the Hindu fold. The result being that the Hindutva political base strengthens whilst the Sikh Panth suffers as time goes on.
So Sikhs have already been reduced from a 100million plus population that we could have been today down to arguably only1.8% of the Indian population if we include sehajdhari Punjabi-speaking Sikhs. What you propose is to reduce this 1.8% further to 0.18% (only those 10% that keep kes) so that democratically and politically the Sikh Panth has zero power to defend itself from any Genocide and nor have any ability to serve the poor and downtrodden for Sarbat da Bhala. As 0.18% equates to 1 in every 555 people which is powerless minority which will never hold any democratic sway or influence.
You need to understand that only by growing the Sikh Panth's population to a critical mass can we best defend ourself from events like 1947 and 1984 and only by having a larger population of the wider Sikh Panth will an enlarged Khalsa Panth population emerge in order to do seva in Punjab, India and worldwide to prevent genocides like Rwanda, to combat Ebola outbreaks, to assist after earthquakes and other natural disasters. By having an enlarge Sikh Panth population which accepts anybody who bows down before Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji Maharaj as a Sikh, you yourself as a paapi are not prevented from following the beliefs you paapi currently hold.
 
 

The four bujjar kurehits apply for the Khalsa only.

So you are saying that if a SIkh commits paap, then he is no longer a sikh? The Guru also says to pay daswandh - does that mean if you dont pay your daswandh, you are no longer a sikh? If a Sikh does'nt work for a living, is he no longer a Sikh then?
 
What do you make of this?

ਕਬੀਰ ਪ੍ਰੀਤਿ ਇਕ ਸਿਉ ਕੀਏ ਆਨ ਦੁਬਿਧਾ ਜਾਇ ॥
Kabeer, when you are in love with the One Lord, duality and alienation depart.

ਭਾਵੈ ਲਾਂਬੇ ਕੇਸ ਕਰੁ ਭਾਵੈ ਘਰਰਿ ਮੁਡਾਇ ॥੨੫॥
You may have long hair, or you may shave your head bald. ||25||
 

Where in the Guru Granth Sahib does it say kesh is a requirement for being a Sikh?

Why can't a mona be classified as a Sikh?

Thank you for your comments MrSingh. I am very glad that your solition is to fight the inner challenges of the Panth, rather than just getting rid of the missionaries. Cause this is the way forward - to solve our issues so its not attractive for people to convert out of SIkhi. The way people do today is to hunt down the Muslim, Hindu and Christian missionaries instead of adressing the reason WHY people want to leave sikhi in the first place.

We have not explored the reasons yet. What we've debated so far was the plurality of Sikhs in the past. All of these Sikhs scattered across different places in West and South Asia however, were ALWAYS in a minority, even in Punjab. What is the reason for this? Untill 1966, the Sikhs never made up a majority anywhere in the world....Why did'n more convert to Sikhi?

There was a Whole category of terms used for non-ethnically Punjabi converts. Multani Singhs (Multan was part of Sindh back then), Kabul Singhs for the Afghans, Sayeed Singhs for the Muslim descendants of the prophet, Sheikh Singhs for what I think were the Muslim scholars that converted, Mughali Singhs, Baluchi Singhs was also a category from what I remember.
 
Today we mostly use Deccani and Kabuli. Is there a Word for the Patna  Sikhs?

In the 19th Century, the term Musadee was used for Muslims in Pashtun and Baluchi lands who read the Japji Sahib as part of their spiritual practices. Im not sure how many they were though.